People said the bubble is bursting since 2015 until 2020 finnaly burst. If you miss the window from that 5 years, u will have missed alot of growth. And if sell off during March, effectively back to 0 gains

Yes we know it will drop eventually, and because sp500 track the top 500 company, in the long run it should recover. Even it drops, just keep dca. 5 years is such a short time in terms on long term investment.

Buy sell buy sell, that's what hedge fund is doing, trying to beat the market. Which Warren buffet already made a Bet, in long term it will have lesser returns.


Where SA now during May 2020, if SA didn't re opt to gold, our gains will have been higher, then kweb it happens again. My paper gains now in SA is just slightly better than FD....

I don't get the idea where SA tell us to keep long term, but every year also re opt. Last year's repot didn't even perform well, then now reopt again.

I don't know maybe I'm the idiot here. I already top up more since kweb hit its lowest 2 weeks ago, I will add more to akrunow because if really play long term, sp500 does five better return.

So far SA really has not give satisfactory returns, I just keep my money there and come back few months later.

To me, if USA have a market crash, everywhere is affected, so it dosent really matter how much we diversify, still need to hold and buy the dip regardless what etf.

But when SA themselves do reopt, is essentially the same thing. Everyone here just seem to agree with it and ok with the lost.

I'm not going to complain for another 2009, I will be dead happy to dump in more, sp500 that is. in fact if I wanna complain, with kweb dropped over 50% , like u said all portfolio has kweb, aren't we already in a '' 2009'' but China style?

We are on the recover run, yet my returns are same as putting in FD or perhaps lowers.

I don't mind they want to re opt this that, whatever they buy this year, last year and even previous years, if they have just not do anything it will grow better than they buy sell buy sell now.

Happened to vgk, spem, gld, ijr and more. Look at the new xle as an example, if they set to buy beginning of the year, it will have decent growth.

As of all investment the power comes from compound, doing this just kills off the tail end of exponential returns.

I know people is not going to agree with me, and will continue to lick off SA boots just to feel better. My Sp500 portfolio dosent lie

If being a Bogle heads get me better returns, glad to be one.

I also should stay away from this thread , starts to feel like a cult than proper discussion.

Don't be silly, calling other Bogle head are kind words right?

The argument is always the same, u tak suka u keluar. As if now selling in the dip will do me any good by exiting SA.

Sorry I'm not that dumb.

If your have such confidence in SA, then shall I ask, will kweb rebound to sp500 level after this crash? Let's not talk about sp500 then

How about other etf SA once bought. Vgk, ijr, ivv xlv, xly and spem (these are the ones I know during my 1.5 years usage), if they have stuck with it, and any dca amount are put into the new reopt, the returns will have been better.

Reopt is fine, everyone buy new etf by whatever justification they deem legit, none is right or wrong.

But buying and selling off etf that is meant for holding long-term is just going against what long term investment is.

Charlie made a joke before, a owner has a horse that works well, occasionally just behaves badly. If is such a nuisance, next time that horse behave well just sell it. What he mean it by, if a stock fundamentals are good, it will drop time to time, if it behaves well(goes up), u sell, means u are cutting off the tail end exponential growth.

The key is here exponential. With re opt almost every year, we will never get to enjoy the tail end exponential growth. Like what I originally say, during a market drop, changing risky portfolio to lower risk is realize lost, re opt is the same.

But yet everyone here don't seem to get idea. what is bad about reopt, is not what they re opt in that is bad, is the constant re opt that is bad.

That's why u heard ppl from Wahed gett better returns, yea they have never changing portfolio, everyone bash it saying it is never managed.

Don't forget, over 90 % hedge fund fail to put perform a fully passive manged fund. If SA want to position themselves as long term investor, this is not something they should do. Constant re opt is what trader and active fund trying to do, SA is doing just that but brand themselves differently.

Bro isn't that what passive investment is? And some friend here will tell me go buy some inflation pegged bonds or etf if I so like passive investment, like that's the only passive investments they know.

We suppose to DCA, put the fund over the long term, as per SA recommendation. What I see now is they are no different from trader or mutual fund.

everyone likes to defend SA more than their own portfolio, I will exit when the time is right. I already start dumping more to akrunow, things are going fantastic over there despite their shitty UI.

Dosent really matter, if SA decide to " re-optimized" before any gains can be reaped.

We all know how SA operates now. Surely this will trigger a few here.

Once kweb recovers to a certain level, I will exit SA. All these graph analysis is meaningless when we have no control over when /what to buy or sell. Render the discussion rather redundant other than just people enforcing what they already believed in.

Exiting now is locking my losses. I may be contradicting myself, I will still occasionally pop in 1 or 2k if it goes lower for kweb.

Meanwhile I will DCA elsewhere.

I just don't agree with people :heeeeeyyy I trust Freddy from SA to death, here's my money papa.

In the end SA, Wahed, mytheo, akrunow, etoro or even other mutual funds are just platforms. We make our own judgment how much and how we want to invest. Fully commit to 1 platform? I have my reservation.

If SA don't do their re opt so often, I might be still able to continue on SA. I don't want to earn margin, I want to earn the tail end of the exponential curve, surely SA reopt practices aren't bringing me there.
If anyone of here still concern about '' long term''.

This post has been edited by littlegamer: Aug 22 2021, 11:34 AM

Exactly.

Which is a mistake I made before jumping in SA. if I were to know SA operate so similarly to UT, I would have gone UT.

I think the right thing for me to do now is just leave it here(time in the market) if really for the long term, just at the very least beat FD for me, if not SA can tutup kedai d. If can't beat FD, then whoever working in SA can just be considered as some xin ka only, regardless their background.

Investing is simple, broad index or etf, dca, don't touch it. That's what passive investment is.

But some here confirm will defend SA. Even though everyone's money is at stake. So what gives, in the end my growth elsewhere in numbers matters.

Sir, I will have to agree with you.

On the contrary, there are SA users here making profitable margins, can't say for myself. But I can see why they stick with SA.

I rode the - 30% last year too.

Just saying, everyone is a genius when the market is bull.

And good for you. That dosent apply to everyone here.
If your only input is : I earn so much that's why this is a good platform. U are no different from those cryto guys flexing over their earnings.

I see not many here are able to exchange debatable reasoning, more on just licking SA boot.

In short, is always : I earn sooo much, u no stick here u dumb dumb.

Instead of having proper reasoning or even have different pov regardless what SA is doing.

Again might be expecting too much from me. My others earnings are also exceeding SA by a far margin (hey I just wanna chip in the flexing craze you know).

In all honesty, I have never criticize what etf SA bought, I only don't like SA's reopt frequency.

Please refrain tagging me in future, it looks like u just wanna make this thread like your domain and flexing your earnings.. Many thanks, and good luck.

As for long term investing, let stick to broad range etf as what SA portfolio are, you will want to stick with a portfolio for a damn long time, I'm talking about 5 to maybe 10 years.

The reason is though etf will fluctuate all time time is completely fine, at the end of 5 to 10 years, we should expect growth over time.
That's why I never exit seeing kweb drop, I know that this is part of investing.

The catch here is, Broad range etf will bring it high returns/ or big lost (high fluctuations) when u stay long due to the tail end of exponential curve.

Just an example don't bite hard on my numbers,
To put in example, etf A up by 3% 2moro, maybe translate to 3 points increase, an up from 100 points.
Assume that next 10 years, the etf up by 3% again, that 3% is not 3 points anymore, it could be 30 (just a number, not trying to be clairvoyant).

Note that, say u buy now, increase 30 points in 10 years later means 30% of whatever you buy today. That is what I mean by exponential tail.

When SA reopt, they sell and buy in, effectively reset the tail. Again I'm talking about long term investments, which is why I go in SA in the first place. We talking about 5 to 10 years.

U can almost say that, SA is ' trading '. Warren buffet had a bet with hedge fund over 10 years, 90% hedge fund fail to out perform broad index fund consistently in the long run. He had the last laugh.

To be honest, rather having SA reopt without your control, it might be better off mimic SA etf but decide on your own to hold long or not. Buy sell buy sell from SA, might as well just choose other platform which indeed prioritize trading and profit margin over short term..


That's my take, in short SA say they long term investor, but behaving like trader.

Lol some here can't take a proper debate decide to report.

Well, that says a lot. Thanks

So say u buy at 1987, when u at 2007 how much u earning?
VS SA re opt all the time? But just to prove my point, your graph show there is up and down, eventually still green right? Right??

I said before in my previous thread, only sell when u think the company or the etf direction has changed.


But Just focus that chunk of time, even with fear sell at 2007 still earns a large sum isnt it?

On side note, coke is not etf is a individual stock. Look at sp500, then go draw your own conclusion.

Broad range etf or index should go up over time, any company that sucked big time will get kick out of sp500. You may say, sp500 will drop also, yea, if the top 500 company also drop others will follow suit as well, eventually it will go back to normal level, completing an economic cycle

Just to stress again, you want apple to Apple comparison, pick and etf or index fund which SA is all about.

Since u like to quote Warren buffet, go find about Warren buffet advice about sp500. Don't just pick some points just to prove a useless point.

I'm sure u can nick pick some points, you can find other article about Warren buffet on sp500.

Many still don't get the idea, I dislike SA re-opt frequency, not what etf they buy in. Vgk, aaxj, ijr, xlv, xlc, xly, xlp, xle, kweb, spem, ivv, all these just look at the graph of 5 to 10 years. Averagely they perform very well, u know what kills it? Reoptimization.

PS: let's say we approve coke using graph approach, still prove my point correct, u stay and hold out, keep investing, 2013 onwards your tail of exponential is there, imagine u buy more during the down period from 2001 to 2013, because u decide to hold because coke is a sound company.

But but but but, what if coke drop?? And never return? It happens, AT&T is a sound company I think they never return back to 00s dot com bubble level, but, if u still buy after the dot com bubble, until now, is like u start to build the tail right from the beginning, I'm sure despite losing everything in 00s dot com, still end up in profit if just stick with it.
5 years in investment term is just short tbh.

Again, just buy company / etf with good evaluation, ignore the noise. What worse is keep buying and selling off, we won't know when is the tip or bottom, but if a company or etf is good it will grow over time, just leave it lah..

That's why until now I haven't exited kweb, I believe their tech still growing, their gov is communist Yada Yada, eventually all these noise will go away. AND! IF SA, don't keep reopt it, just stay with it, I'm sure the gains will be crazy,if China tech continues to advance.



This post has been edited by littlegamer: Aug 22 2021, 04:50 PM

Which actually kinda contradict what they say, time in market but reopt. Then that is not time in market already... That's timing the market.

Well if we want to define, reoptimization (reselling and buying other etf) over span of just one year is not trading, then there is nothing more for me to say.

Some of my friends who play stocks sometimes also hold at least 2 to 3 years.... And they themselves say they are earning the capital gains and not long term.. How in earth is reopting not trading, where the day I went to SA seminar they tell me they are not traders but long term investor.

They brand themselves that way but do another, yes reducing risk by Re-opt-ing is for interest of all SA users, but I think as all SA users who get in also should know they will stick here for a long time.

If they go sell off kweb on the next repot I'm exiting already, they effectively help us lock in the loss. In fact, others etf that got opt-out also is a form of loss.

For people that might wanna double down on kweb (including me), I also have another worry, when will they stop offering kweb? Suddenly I buy in more now because low price next 6 months they chop it off in the name of reducing risk, then how ar? And this dosent include just kweb, but other etf in the past as well. Ivv, xlp, xlv xly just to name a few, they still doing well though.

I kept saying, just hold it out, we won't know when is the tip and when will be the bottom, but if the investment is sound, eventually it will grow. Don't time the market, stick with it for long time. Which their reoptimization is preventing us to do so.

This post has been edited by littlegamer: Aug 23 2021, 12:27 AM

Another u don't like u keluar SA comment

Read my others comment yet? I was never upset kweb dropping, nor blaming SA for buying kweb.

I'm mainly stressing on why the constant reopt, when staying in and hold could potentially be better.

I mention before all the etf SA bought are rather good etf. But when they advertise buy and hold, and dca why are they re opting so often?

Just look at those past etf SA re opted out. They still performing well, I'm saying that the re opt could hurt the long term gain.

Why do people even invest in SA? Well? Long term investment? Thus, SA advocate to dca regardless of market status and give it time.

Does the constant reopt seem to like a '' give it time " to you.

And just to repeat myself in case you don't bother to read, I don't mind at all the fluctuations, is part of the investment journey.

But everyone really just seem to be OK with it, despite being told hold and dca, yet SA doing the opposite.

But in the end you can look at others comment on defending SA, simply there is a guy here disagreeing. Then always follow by the u tak suka u keluar statement.

Just have a look on the previous etf SA opted out. Trace them back to inception of SA.

And to be honest why are u guys so angry when SA got bashed, not like I hope SA doing bad will benefit me in any way?

Again the response is u tak suka u keluar.

Regardless the platform of investment if there is blind belief, is almost throwing money into Casino not knowing what happen.

Then my expected response u tak suka u pergi open broker account.... Yea that not the point.

SA advocate buy and hold long term and dca but proceed on constant reopt, this contradiction is already a big red flag.

This post has been edited by littlegamer: Aug 24 2021, 12:04 AM

SA has been in a poor year. 2020 March till now every etf is on a bull (over value or not that's another story)

But when I said re optimization is not optimal, is essentially buying and selling (trading), everyone jumped on me.

If they would have just stick with the same etfs, even with kweb gigantic dip, it would be in the positive. In all honesty, SA does invest into quality ETF

Buy and hold for long term is the only reason to be in etf in first place.
I play dumb on luno, using rm3k I earned more than SA over 2 years of usage, in a 1.5 year bull market with over 50k deposited in SA.
Just saying if you are to trade like SA, might as well go with high fluctuations stuff, where I buy and sell every half a year or so, just about the same as SA.

My akrunow account has now doubled the earnings from SA despite using 1 year less than SA, that VOO and IEFA heavy portfolio really helped.

I forsee My post will be tagged multiple times by hardcore supporters. But in the end investment is about earning money, just it seems SA dosent deliver.

A simple check for those who used SA since inception, just compare SA past 3 years performance vs just the industry benchmark Voo or Spy. is not even about beating the benchmark, is about matching it. But SA falls short from benchmark.

. I know some here will flex their 3 years earning with SA.
Take a step back just compare with Spy with past 3 year span, draw your own conclusion. I rest my case.

This post has been edited by littlegamer: Nov 10 2021, 02:23 AM

If don't compare to benchmark, what else to compare to? Let's compare them as robo advisor then , SA vs akrunow, it losses by a margin. As a robo investments platform it already lost.

Let's not compare to voo then. You may check how those old etf performed if the re optimization has not taken place. Check on any of these, ivv, vgk, xlv, xly.

You mentioned 3rd purpose is to secure gains. I won't call having almost no growth as '' securing gains''. Even secure gains was the reason, those etf exited by SA still going strong. Which begs the question, why even bother reopt.

I mentioned before, etf are investment to stay long, u would want your investment to reach into exponential tail. Re opt is essentially, realize your gains/lost, then buy into something else and see if goes up.
Is just like trading......but done by SA.

Let's put the technical jargon aside, what SA is, or what it should or should not be compared to. Can we agree the market is in a bull? And how has this reflected in SA? The growth is negative.

Investment platform end goal's isn't it about earning money? So even if your argument is all 100% right, monetary lost is monetary lost. Renders your argument invalid.

I would have agreed with you if most of the etf isn't in a bull run. I won't even fault kweb, but it just seem reopt has did more harm then good.

This post has been edited by littlegamer: Nov 10 2021, 09:32 AM

In the xle side I can agree.

However the point I want to bring out is, reopt too often ends up the etf not going into its full potential. Is like exiting with decent gains but it went higher, xle is kinda a good call for them, but... We are almost talking about speculation now.

I don't want to fault SA for choosing Kweb, I personally think China tech is a good etf, it drops like that is out of SA control. Even if kweb didn't drop, if SA decided to reopt, probably change the proportion of kweb might also affects the earning (I'm saying if kweb never fall)

The purpose of etf or index is for long term, over time it should mimic the intrinsic value of the market, fluctuations in months or years is normal. The constant reopt is just re enforcing the idea of trading.

On my previous post I was being cheeky, saying I use luno 3k to earn more than SA with 50k for 2 years. On luno my buy/sell cycle is around 6 to 8 months, compare to SA reopt frequency is rather similar. In this case might as well play those high fluctuations stuff?

SA is generally investing in very good ETF, is why I use it in the first place, the any DCA amount with small fee is really attractive way to get to international stocks for a non seasoned investor like me.

Sadly, even the horrible UI akrunow does better than SA. If they have stick to re opting at lesser frequency it will have been great. I still believe kweb will go up back to its intrinsic value, what I afriad is SA might reopt out as soon as kweb starts picking up momentum.

SA is operating very similar to mutual fund style but just with international etf, which... Kinda derails what investment platform it meant to be.


With that said, will people earn money in SA? certainly! But definitely missing out a lot, we can see these 1.5years things has been a bull, while SA is not.

I'm the kind that follows John C. Bogle, so far his view still work till this day despite his passing. That's why there are articles that said, monkeys out perform fund manager.

This post has been edited by littlegamer: Nov 10 2021, 12:36 PM

I'm a Kia su type, anything that beats the inflation and give consistent gains over the long time is my cup of tea.

Occasionally I do play some crypto, those are really small money I treat it as "" money to lose"".

SA is good if it wasn't for the reopt. At the point it is performance is worse than putting it into Malaysian EPF.

Come to think of it EPF is crazy, 5 to 6% consistent returns since it's inception over all the economic down turn with tax returns??? That's insane to me. Ofc u can't withdraw it with specific rules, epf is meant for retirement so... I kinda feel we shouldn't withdraw as we like, it is meant for our retirement.

Epf auto/forced us save 24% of our income over our work years with 5 to 6 % growth over 35 years. I baffles me how people still unable to retire just by epf alone.

There was a time like 2016 or 2015, local banks offer 4.0% FD, I was crazy for it. Is just 1% off from epf and is confirmed growth, interest is abit too low now for FD to a poiny my credit card cash back is giving me more money than putting in FD.

This post has been edited by littlegamer: Nov 10 2021, 01:17 PM