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 [DIY] S&P 500 Index w/ 0.07% Annual Fee, Buy the best companies in the world

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simplesmile
post Nov 9 2019, 01:28 PM

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May I know why the recommendation is TradeStation?
Why not use IBKR directly?
If using IBKR, is it better to use IBKR US or IBKR EU?
TSalexkos
post Nov 9 2019, 01:33 PM

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QUOTE(simplesmile @ Nov 9 2019, 01:28 PM)
May I know why the recommendation is TradeStation?
Why not use IBKR directly?
If using IBKR, is it better to use IBKR US or IBKR EU?
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U got 100k usd, can go straight ikbr
Ramjade
post Nov 9 2019, 01:34 PM

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QUOTE(simplesmile @ Nov 9 2019, 01:28 PM)
May I know why the recommendation is TradeStation?
Why not use IBKR directly?
If using IBKR, is it better to use IBKR US or IBKR EU?
*
You get charged USD10/month by IBKR directly if
1. You have less than USD100k with them
2. If your trade commission is < USD10/month.

Tradestation and tradestation global is different thing. No such condition if we go by tradestation global. We all miskin.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Nov 9 2019, 01:35 PM
roarus
post Nov 9 2019, 07:17 PM

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QUOTE(dwRK @ Nov 9 2019, 12:49 PM)
Boss... any high income type products to recommend... ?

I was just checking ibkr margin financing, for EUR rate is say 1.5%, so if you get 3% interest / dividend... basically gaji buta1.5% right, ignore wht and price fluctuations for simplicity.

USD lending rate is say 3%... so if I need USD, best to first short EUR.USD, essentially borrowing EUR at 1.5% to sell for USD.
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Don't get what you meant by high income products? Or you meant high yield?

Sure you pay 1.5% for EUR, but it'll be a bet that USD will not weaken against Euro. If it's that easy and certain everyone would be doing it, right?
dwRK
post Nov 9 2019, 09:45 PM

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QUOTE(roarus @ Nov 9 2019, 07:17 PM)
Don't get what you meant by high income products? Or you meant high yield?

Sure you pay 1.5% for EUR, but it'll be a bet that USD will not weaken against Euro. If it's that easy and certain everyone would be doing it, right?
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Yes high yield products. I briefly saw a few usd etfs that's 7-10% so was thinking the dividend more than cover the loan

The second point is instead of taking a usd margin loan at 3%... I take a eur loan at 1.5% and use that to buy usd... so effectively a usd loan at 1.5%. If usd strengthen its in my favor because I'm holding usd.

Sounds simple so I don't know if I'm missing something tbh...

This post has been edited by dwRK: Nov 9 2019, 09:48 PM
moosset
post Nov 9 2019, 11:59 PM

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QUOTE(dwRK @ Nov 9 2019, 09:45 PM)
Yes high yield products. I briefly saw a few usd etfs that's 7-10% so was thinking the dividend more than cover the loan

The second point is instead of taking a usd margin loan at 3%... I take a eur loan at 1.5% and use that to buy usd... so effectively a usd loan at 1.5%. If usd strengthen its in my favor because I'm holding usd.

Sounds simple so I don't know if I'm missing something tbh...
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3%, 1.5% means what?? Isn't this rate compounded daily?

that 7-10% is a yearly dividend yield, no? How to cover?
roarus
post Nov 10 2019, 12:40 AM

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QUOTE(dwRK @ Nov 9 2019, 09:45 PM)
Yes high yield products. I briefly saw a few usd etfs that's 7-10% so was thinking the dividend more than cover the loan
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I'm more of an investment grade guy, but you can check out iShares High Yield Corp Bonds - https://www.ishares.com/uk/individual/en/pr...-bond-ucits-etf

Don't go all out with 100% high yield for your bond holdings though, maybe 10-15% of your total bond holdings if you want to take some risk and only when your total portfolio is big enough (assuming 15% of total bond and you're on 20/80 ratio for bond/equity - it's just a measly RM15k for a RM500k port)

QUOTE(dwRK @ Nov 9 2019, 09:45 PM)
The second point is instead of taking a usd margin loan at 3%... I take a eur loan at 1.5% and use that to buy usd... so effectively a usd loan at 1.5%. If usd strengthen its in my favor because I'm holding usd.

Sounds simple so I don't know if I'm missing something tbh...
Hypothetically would you take out a 4.8% MYR loan, convert and dump into a 6% IDR FD? You might end up with more IDR at maturity, but IDR might've weaken at that point you'll still bleed money after converting IDR -> MYR and settling the MYR loan. Oh and don't forget you're serving the MYR loan while waiting for the IDR FD to mature. If IDR rallies instead, lucky you.
dwRK
post Nov 10 2019, 06:07 AM

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QUOTE(roarus @ Nov 10 2019, 12:40 AM)
I'm more of an investment grade guy, but you can check out iShares High Yield Corp Bonds - https://www.ishares.com/uk/individual/en/pr...-bond-ucits-etf

Don't go all out with 100% high yield for your bond holdings though, maybe 10-15% of your total bond holdings if you want to take some risk and only when your total portfolio is big enough (assuming 15% of total bond and you're on 20/80 ratio for bond/equity - it's just a measly RM15k for a RM500k port)
Hypothetically would you take out a 4.8% MYR loan, convert and dump into a 6% IDR FD? You might end up with more IDR at maturity, but IDR might've weaken at that point you'll still bleed money after converting IDR -> MYR and settling the MYR loan. Oh and don't forget you're serving the MYR loan while waiting for the IDR FD to mature. If IDR rallies instead, lucky you.
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Appreciate the feedback...just exploring, haven't crunch any numbers yet... thanks again
dwRK
post Nov 10 2019, 07:26 AM

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QUOTE(moosset @ Nov 9 2019, 11:59 PM)
3%, 1.5% means what?? Isn't this rate compounded daily?

that 7-10% is a yearly dividend yield, no? How to cover?
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Yeah need to check if it's compounded. Some high yield funds pay monthly
moosset
post Nov 10 2019, 09:58 AM

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since we are on topic of tax optimisation, does it mean that you all don't buy US-domiciled ETF???

only buy their counterpart like Irish domiciled ETF??
TSalexkos
post Nov 10 2019, 10:02 AM

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QUOTE(moosset @ Nov 10 2019, 09:58 AM)
since we are on topic of tax optimisation, does it mean that you all don't buy US-domiciled ETF???

only buy their counterpart like Irish domiciled ETF??
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Yes... Only irish
moosset
post Nov 10 2019, 10:14 AM

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QUOTE(alexkos @ Nov 10 2019, 10:02 AM)
Yes... Only irish
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then, everything in EUR???

will EUR/MYR go up or down after brexit?
TSalexkos
post Nov 10 2019, 10:29 AM

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QUOTE(moosset @ Nov 10 2019, 10:14 AM)
then, everything in EUR???

will EUR/MYR go up or down after brexit?
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u can hoot CSP1/CSPX, US-denominated Irish-domiciled
dwRK
post Nov 10 2019, 10:31 AM

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QUOTE(moosset @ Nov 10 2019, 10:14 AM)
then, everything in EUR???

will EUR/MYR go up or down after brexit?
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Underlying stocks are USD....so usdmyr is the main concern not eurusd...how much brexit affects eurusd, eurmyr, usdmyr dunno but there will be some impact

This post has been edited by dwRK: Nov 10 2019, 10:35 AM
moosset
post Nov 10 2019, 10:33 AM

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QUOTE(alexkos @ Nov 10 2019, 10:29 AM)
u can hoot CSP1/CSPX, US-denominated Irish-domiciled
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why is there a price difference between CSPX and VOO even though both track S&P500 and in USD?
TSalexkos
post Nov 10 2019, 10:36 AM

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QUOTE(moosset @ Nov 10 2019, 10:33 AM)
why is there a price difference between CSPX and VOO even though both track S&P500 and in USD?
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diff total unit? also, each fund buy diff size of sp500....then slice them to smaller pieces, then sell to retailers like us...
roarus
post Nov 10 2019, 12:36 PM

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QUOTE(moosset @ Nov 10 2019, 10:14 AM)
then, everything in EUR???
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Throughout Europe (e.g. Switzerland SWISS SIX/Germany XETRA/London LSE), usually the popular Irish funds are available in EUR, GBP and USD denomination.

Assuming non currency hedge class of a fund, after purchase you'll be owning securities tied to the underlying company stocks - partial ownership of the companies and not hard currency. The price just reflects the converted perceived value of the aggregated stocks in EUR/GBP/USD.

In the scenario:
i. S&P500 index is unchanged
ii. GBP currency rallies hard against the EUR and USD
iii. EUR currency drops against USD and GBP

USD denominated CSPX price unchanged
EUR denominated SXR8 price will increase
GBP denominated CSP1 price will drop

QUOTE(moosset @ Nov 10 2019, 10:14 AM)
will EUR/MYR go up or down after brexit?
It's anyone's guess

QUOTE(moosset @ Nov 10 2019, 10:33 AM)
why is there a price difference between CSPX and VOO even though both track S&P500 and in USD?
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Simply because they're different funds, they just happen to track the same index. They have their own net asset value and they can splice it up and set any initial price at inception they want. Even if they started out at the same price, they will eventually drift apart due to tracking error, expense ratio and dividend payout/reinvestment.

I like it better if they're priced higher, as each cent difference in bid/ask translates to lower % spread difference:
i. $50, bid/ask 49.99/50.01 = 0.04%
ii. $200, bid/ask 199.99/200.01 = 0.01%
moosset
post Nov 10 2019, 04:05 PM

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QUOTE(roarus @ Nov 10 2019, 12:36 PM)
Throughout Europe (e.g. Switzerland SWISS SIX/Germany XETRA/London LSE), usually the popular Irish funds are available in EUR, GBP and USD denomination.

Assuming non currency hedge class of a fund, after purchase you'll be owning securities tied to the underlying company stocks - partial ownership of the companies and not hard currency. The price just reflects the converted perceived value of the aggregated stocks in EUR/GBP/USD.

In the scenario:
i. S&P500 index is unchanged
ii. GBP currency rallies hard against the EUR and USD
iii. EUR currency drops against USD and GBP

USD denominated CSPX price unchanged
EUR denominated SXR8 price will increase
GBP denominated CSP1 price will drop
It's anyone's guess
Simply because they're different funds, they just happen to track the same index. They have their own net asset value and they can splice it up and set any initial price at inception they want. Even if they started out at the same price, they will eventually drift apart due to tracking error, expense ratio and dividend payout/reinvestment.

I like it better if they're priced higher, as each cent difference in bid/ask translates to lower % spread difference:
i. $50, bid/ask 49.99/50.01 = 0.04%
ii. $200, bid/ask 199.99/200.01 = 0.01%
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Thanks!

Then I won't be transferring money to USD anymore, just EUR.
moosset
post Nov 10 2019, 07:07 PM

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for iShares MSCI China ETF in Nasdaq, this is china-domiciled but traded in the US, how does the tax work?
roarus
post Nov 10 2019, 08:23 PM

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QUOTE(moosset @ Nov 10 2019, 04:05 PM)
Thanks!

Then I won't be transferring money to USD anymore, just EUR.
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And you're holding EUR because you're retiring there/have kids planning to study there/foreseeable trip to EU?

QUOTE(moosset @ Nov 10 2019, 07:07 PM)
for iShares MSCI China ETF in Nasdaq, this is china-domiciled but traded in the US, how does the tax work?
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For underlying stocks - small handful are ADR, the rest are Chinese. But the fund is US domiciled, so 30% WHT applies

This post has been edited by roarus: Nov 10 2019, 08:26 PM

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