Hi All,

Need your golden advice.

Heard many people said there is no future work as programmer / technical field. Is there true?

People always said programmer is under paid, work long hours, no claim for OT... But due to that a lot of people do not like to work as programmer and cause there is high demand for programmer in the market ( especially C++ or C). Please correct me if I am wrong.

I see there is a lot of cases whereby my friend who studied IT end up choice work marketing, business, sales, project management.... because of they believed there is no future to be IT

How you guys think? Is that true? Anyone have a good example who work as programmer get extremely high pay?

got ppl out there earning alot as a programmer. if you are good at it, no doubt you will have good future at it.

im a programmer. DUNT EVER study this course if u dun have interest in it.

see how i enjoy my working hours foruming?

anyway.... if u are vain, better dun become programmer oh. coz usuali programming will make ppl's appearance degenerate.... and balding faster. lucky I got my hobby to help reduce this chance of happening (see my signature =)

I don't think there is no future as a programmer or IT related job.
There is lot of IT related job in market as we can see.

1 of my friend get RM4000 per month after 3 years working.
That is consider as high or low? hehe...

blue_heaven....
future is always there....as technology keep evolving....
u need to cope with it....progress as it is.....
if u stop and jz stick wit wat u hav.....
of coz no future for u.....rite?

anyway......
even u work as at a position, by time....
if u had learnt a lot, experienced enof....
unless u r person who never think of going up in ur career(satisfy as a programmer for rest of life)
u could get promoted to be leader, supervisor, manager, etc
managerial position always higher than programmer....
greater power comes greater responsibility....
so u get pay more....

some ppl abandon themselves from IT field although they were studied IT
bcoz they are not really into it....if u really in it.....jz come along...
there is more for u to learn out there...

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Added on May 30, 2007, 2:47 pmsome job can offering that even before u reach 2yrs...

This post has been edited by dinozilla: May 30 2007, 02:47 PM

if u're good at it, there's always a future for programmer

i'm a programmer also. one good thing being a programmer is, sometimes the workload is too much you have to stayback till night. but most of the time, you got nothing to do except surfing lowyat.net, watch naruto, bla bla....

In Malaysia, the cap on programmer's salary is pretty low compared to other countries. You'd have to move on to management to increase your salary cap. Granted, there are SOME companies that pay well for seniors with good skills, but that is not the average.

If you calculate pay/hour, then the numbers are even more depressing because of the long hours with no OT involve. A common trait for programmers. I have a few x-colleagues as well that switched profession to become financial planners, chefs, etc.

As someone pointed out, you really really have to have interest. If you're just in it for the money, then either switch profession or quickly get to management level (which does not necessary require good programming skills).

I am a SAP ABAP programmer and i do consider myself getting a very good paid.

rm4k after 3 years is low lah

i think it depends, as a junior (1-3yrs) when ur experience n skill is not tht high , dont expect high income, when u r recognized n identified....offer will come n high5.....

line line oso got champion ( mandarin )....

I am just trying to give some example. I think there is jobs provide better salary than my example.

so how much you think a 3 years experience programmer should have?

4k with 3 yrs is low??? There is alot taking lower pay even more than 3 yrs.

ps: not include SAP ABAP

This post has been edited by jimmy79: May 30 2007, 03:06 PM

That is a niche job. In general the more popular languages like .net and java programmers, which gets taught in unis as well, are not.

yes rite now i oso learn new language by self-pace.
here so many gurus mah.
wow 4 yrs rm3K not low lor man.
my fren 4 yrs just rm2K ++.

I don't see why there is no opportunity for programmers. There are always engineers who refuse to learn programming and have to hire programmer to code their 'theories'

Girls nowadays are demanding !! Or its materialistic

I think RM 4 K is quite good after 3 years.

4 yrs RM2K++, thats low!!

If you has no idea what you are doing, then this is so true about IT. Especially when there is so many IT grads around + so many experienced seniors around.

"Get a job you love and you dont have to work for a day for the rest of your life"

u would not going to be programmer for ur whole life. It is a stepping stone. However, it does a hard stepping

There's definitely a future for you in programming but it requires a lot of your time and hard work at first. But to do all the hard work on your precious extra time, you need to be very interested in it. It's simple as that. When you like what you're doing, you'll find your way.

I've seen people who are not interested in this course but stays till the end. They managed to get a good grade but most of their programming tasks are not done by them. They simply hate it. Later, when working, they started having problem whenever they need to programming. The point is, don't do it if you got no interest in it.

It is not about future. If you like it, just go for it. If it is your passion.

let me tell you that it's BULLSHIT. pardon my usage of words, some times some people talk not using their brain.

a lot of people will tell you XYZ no future. like 2 of my friends (who are by now have million with them......but work like silly la), around 5 years ago or so they were telling 1 of my friend that doing web design no future.

now - i make a living with that, and also programming. i live comfortably. and many are doing so. what does that tell you?

programming, like any other job, depends greatly on your attitude. then of course if you are a programmer, remember to update yourself for improvement sake.

just like any other job, your role is replaceable. as you work, programming everyone else can, newbie take a while to learn they can already. BUT your experience + skill is where your true value is.

if you're good, then become senior programmer, group leader, then after a while you may not even be doing programming already but you'll be coordinating your machai of programmers and giving assistance balblabla.

then again this depends on company la.

EDITED : oh btw, just go to jobstreet or whatever site - you'll see that programmers are in demand.

This post has been edited by goldfries: May 30 2007, 06:47 PM

There is lots of job available... just that no one good enough to fill them. Either that or they too demanding.

sometimes you look at the job requirement, it looks so creepy.

programmer wanted
- minimum 5 years experience

must know
- c++
- java
- asp
- jsp
- csp
- php
- oracle
- mysql
- postgresql
- mssql
- cache

applicant must be able to work long hours and ready for on call

Yes i agree with you goldfries. there are great oppurtunity in becoming a programmer, not to be mistaken with the post of programmer. You can make a lot of money by becoming a programmer but if you work as a programmer especially in a small company or in the government sector. Starting salary of a programmer will vary from rm 1600 to rm 2000 depending on your skills. If you have a lot of contacts and have a good skill in the current programming trend e.g. php, .net etc, why not try becoming a freelancer or attach yourself to a friend's company or better yet, open your own company. Does not need a sdn bhd company, an enterprise is enough. Find yourself some small project at first to familiarize yourself with the so-called "clients may not be smart but they are always right" attitude. Market yourself.

I've been doing programming since 1985 and now I own my own company and live comfortably. Update yourself as much as microsoft patches its windows When you are skilled enough, specialized yourself in one of the fields in programming e.g. application, games, security and maybe one day your name will be in one of the item in sharemarket

true oso la...

But best is to research wut tht company is doing and then just say ur expertise is more focus on tht part. U might probably end up getting tht job oso. Coz Jack of all trades are masters of none.

yeah. just highlighting how ridiculous some requirements can be. usually admin staff just post wan la.

Everyone on earth discourage me to go for Cobol programming yet im going for it. Reporting in this monday

wah. cobol - you're a rare breed.

EDITED : they probably discouraging you for reasons that are obvious, that people are now going with many newer languages these days.

on the other hand if you become expert in cobol, the demand is few but the supply is even lesser. so you can command quite a hefty fee.

This post has been edited by goldfries: May 30 2007, 09:04 PM

haha yea rare species
i hope i made the right choice, coz i rejected Java with higher salary and better in term of everything..

dude....legal loan shark will hire u..... (the bank la...)
i heard their system mostly using cobol la.....

wah .. Cobol? Because I do know a lot of company want to change cobol to C. The reason is because not easy to get cobol programmer so hard to maintence they system. Think Twice man

deleted deleted

This post has been edited by ElaiNe: May 31 2007, 12:49 AM

But you cant say you fully understand how creepy the job is until you really work it. Especially the "able to work long hour and stay on call" part.

I feel like no tomorrow, the world is gonna end today.

IMHO doing something that not everyone doing will give you an edge, but it is good to know that whats everyone doing as well

the demand for cobol programmers still great out there...specially in banking / insurance industry and O&G industry too.. a cobol prorgammer with 4-5 years experince can earn easily earn more than RM 5K in m'sia.. as me too a Cobol/RPG programmer.

Senior!
Finally someone doing Cobol. There's another forumer, googleyi also on cobol. That makes 3 of us.. Eh not so rare liao

lol.....later too many....market press down salary cap....

Programming is a "techie" job so you will never be as highly paid or as highly ranked as someone in a "talkie" job (e.g. consultants, managers, business analysts, etc.). You will still get paid decently, it will not like they will be feeding you peanuts.

The consultants and managers can talk as much as they want, but at the end of the day, somebody will still have to sit down and write code to get the computers to do anything and for that, they need programmers. So if you are a pretty good programmer, you will always have that to fall back on.

One thing has to be said, so I'll say it: I like being a techie. I like sussing out complex logic and making the computer do something complicated successfully. I have been in this line of business for 12 years working in a large insurance company and still write code occasionally. It's a comforting thought that should all my subordinates be unavailable, I could just write/fix the dang program myself.

These days, a sizable portion of the IT management have too little hands-on programming experience which may explain why so many software projects run into problems with unrealistic expectations and unreasonable deadlines.

However as you gain in seniority, you will eventually hit the salary cap so it is up to you to keep yourself and your skills relevant if you want to keep getting increments. Lots of related techie disciplines are a short jump from programming, like networking and database administration. Either that or join the dark side and become a consultant/manager.

A great part that contributes to being happy is to have a job you like. If they stopped paying me tomorrow, I'd still be programming as a hobby because it makes me happy. That they give me money is a bonus.

Life is really too short to be unhappy.



This post has been edited by limsk: May 31 2007, 09:49 AM

That doesn't necessarily mean it has a good future. How far do you think you can go as a programmer without switching to management? In Malaysia, the norm is programmers, even senior programmers have a salary cap which you wont be able to exceed unless you cross over to become a manager.

What's the ratio of programmer to managers? It is definitely not 1:1. Lets pick a number, lets say it is 5:1. So your probability of becoming a manager, assuming all the 5 programmers are equals, is 1/5. If you dont make it, you salary is flat-lined and wont increase anymore and you have to wait for the next opportunity.

You say you are living comfortably now, so? Do you have a wife and kids? Do you have a household to maintain? Even if you do, do you think the cost will not increase? When your kids grow, cost for food, leisure, education increases. You want your paycheck to grow. But in Malaysia programmers salary are capped.

In some MNCs (and countries), they dont cap technical positions by non-technical positions, but that is NOT the norm.

Do not confuse opportunity of employment with salary advancement limit. Just because there's a big market for the job, does not mean the salary advancement limit is high (and dont confuse salary advancement limit to opportunity). Salary advancement opportunity in the IT industry in Malaysia is high, but the limit/cap is low compared to other white collar professions based on hourly work to pay ratio.

When you talk about future, you want to take ALL of these into consideration. A lot of ppl switch profession, not because they cannot find another job, in fact they get tons of offer. Most of my friends that quit IT, is because they realize the amount of work they put in is not worth it, since the cap on the pay is just too low, and the chance to leap to management is not that easy.

Some ppl are lucky, most are NOT.

well for me programming is an enjoyable job ann of course it fun....i think the first thing in anybody mind of programming is interest beb......all job have future depend on how u utilize and manipulate it

my pakcik work 10 years already and his salary around rm2k++
3 years = rm4k is good

i work as freelance. work for a company is very hard lah...

rexis, i say creepy i was referring to the requirements. the rest are just to cite what usually is stated in a job opening requirement thing.

and i've work as such before, lost many holidays, sleep hours and weekend. and yes, on call part too.

which is why i say attitude lor. you definitely have to progress.

yes i have wife and household to maintain. only no kids yet. so busy, kids not a good idea atm.

the TS was asking whether "NO FUTURE" as programmer. programmer as you can see (even from your post) has future. decent, good, bad future - it's still there, just depends on the person and how they go about. definitely not no future. not so good in "salary advancement" doesn't mean bad or lousy future either.

my sentence mentioned demand alone. if you wish to bring in "salary advancement issue" then please do so, no need to post as if i'm not aware (or confused) of the difference between opportunity and salary advancement.

also my apologies if you think it's inappropriate for me not to bring in other white color profession into comparison. i did not bring them in as we were just talking about programmers - now that you brought that matter in, it's would be great if you could mention specifically which white collared profession you think is better (job scope + amount of work put in)

i've known people in advertising line that earn 5 - 10k range at their mid 20s. work stress also la.

This post has been edited by goldfries: May 31 2007, 02:01 PM

Heh I see salary and career advancement to be more significant to the Future than job demand. Job demands are ephemeral, they can be a million opportunities today and zero tomorrow. You can hardly say a profession has bright future based on that. That is why I tend to look at it from the perspective of salary and career advancement.

In Malaysia, it does not bode well. As I said, a lot of companies practice capping technical positions with managerial ones. So you can only progress so far in a technical position like IT. This what I base my points on. I've worked in a couple of companies in the US as a software developer, they do NOT cap their technical salary advancements with managerial ones. In one project that I was in, my team lead earned more than my manager because he had a lot more years of experience. Try finding that in Malaysia, it is not the norm.

yes. i don't disagree with you. my post was regarding demand only. good you highlight this matter.

btw no one said it has bright future, i'm just saying it's not "no future". you still can make a living out of it and progress, depending on the person and the company joined.

yeah that's the thing about M'sian culture or perhaps Asian culture.

hmm sorry for bumping but does anyone know which it company needs internship?
preferably around damansara area

My housemates are all IT people....the reason people who study IT but ending up doing other things such as sales and marketing is due to IT field evolve too fast and it is a very tough job....need to put on your thinking cap all the time....

And we bunch of youngsters are all lazy thinkers.....not to mention trial and error in writing a C++ program....most youngsters prefer to just do a job that can "relax" and lepak-lepak....

In PJ, you can try ebworx in Menara Merais at section 19 or Scope International (Standard Chartered Bank) in Menara Axis opposite Armada Hotel. I heard they are looking for IT interns, although so far they have exclusively recruited from some local Unis instead of advertising for it.

You guys have to define first what is "have future".
After working 20 years as a secretary , i get 4k , is that "have future"?

For me "have future" means

1.) Having career advancement.
2.) High pay(and i don't mean 5k/month)
3.) In a growing industry. Growing doesn't mean just hiring more people , but an increase in average market salary.
4.) Career that have balanced work life.

For programmer , I would say that they have an "average" future which means it's neither too bright or too dull.

darun,

eB looking for permanent staff, no longer takes intern i think

In IT line such as programmer, the future is in your hand.....it's not like other industry with increment RM150-200.....I have seen people starting pay of RM2800 in INTEL (penang) but since he is good his pay jump to RM4000 in his second piece of job just after 1.5 years in INTEL in PJ at the age of 25.

Now already goes beyond that......

You can't have your cake/roti canai and eat it.

You're talking about 1 person or the whole industry? Even in MLM there ae people earnign 20-30k /month but does that mean it's a good career just based on one person's salary?

The correct way of evaluating an industry is the average pay@number of years working experience vs other industries, not taking one or two person's account and consider it as the market rate.

That doesnt mean a thing. If you plot the pay rise for most programmers over 30 years, it is not a straight upward line, rather it is curved and starts to slow down after you hit close to 10K.

You have to Look at the salary cap to talk about FUTURE. As the more you project your career to the Future, the closer it gets to the cap. Like I said before, unless the person makes the jump to become a Manager, the salary cap for a programmer is not adequate to sustain a person when they get older and have grown up kids to provide for.

Ask yourself, what is the ratio of Manager to Programmer. If every programmer sticks to being a programmer for 30 years, how many of those will become a Manager and get pass the salary cap of a programmer. Do you think that number is good? I would say it is not.

i'm a PLC programmer... usually use for automation... many ppl say the salary for PLC programmer is low (yes, it is low) becoz too many programmer... but all depends on which company r u in and how u program??

european pay very high on PLC programmer.. for commisioning they pay plc programmer about USD 1k per day for commisioning.. this happen on european ppl and american onli.. not asian especially malaysia...

anyway future is in ur hand, choose wisely which path u take..

Of course when I mean good future is around that RM10000....unless you are talking about CEO or Director monthly pay which can easily hit RM50-60k than thats different story.....

We need to refer to society norm.....how many people can really become a CEO with that RM50k monthy pay cheque???? For a normal people can get a pay around RM10k is considered good enough already.

uh a programmer here age 25 been working in programming field for 2 years.. what i truly feel is that u need to have some interest in it.. ask urself whether are u able to stand looking at codes from 9 to 6 daily and occasional OT... i've seen some grad who claims to know programming when their in college but when comes to coding system they don cut it.. hence it's different when you're dwelling into programming just for the sake of gaining knowledge and actually doing it..

Sorry, if you think RM10k is more than adequate then I dont agree with you. RM10k for a 20-30 year old is a lot yes. But for someone who is 40-50, with a few kids to put thru college, housing loan to pay off, food for a family, and potentially cost for sustaining their parents, it is definitely not enough. We are projecting to the FUTURE here, do not think the RM10K although enough for most of us young ppl are enough to sustain your whole life.

Wrong. Only in technical professions. There are many non technical prositions, like lawyers, doctors, lecturers, sales, etc that are not absolutely capped by managerial positions.

Of course it depends on a lot of factors. That doesnt null out the IF statement, the IF is only one possible scenario out of a lot. However, whatever permutation you like to apply, it still doesnt void the fact that on average the ratio of manager will be less than programmers.

If you are at a crossroad and have a chance to choose a profession, neither interest you as much, where the probability is 1 for salary advancement above an acceptable level assuming all other factors are in place (hard work, skill, determination) and being a programmer where the probability is less than 1 (you've reach the cap, and the only way to advance is crossing to a managerial position) assuming again all other factors are in place, which would you choose?

Darun perhaps is right on that....RM10k may not be suffice over the coming years....unless we are able to justify how fast inflation rate escalate...everything in the future is justified by the power of inflation rate.....

Unless anyone here can predict with high certainty regarding the movements of interest rates, no one can tell how much is the minimal pay a sole breadwinner must bring home every month....

---

Added on June 2, 2007, 12:57 pmBut I can say that IT world does not really has a cap in the salary.....if you think you are bloody good even just one year of working experience you can demand RM4500 for monthly pay cheque. Even some of my friends just 2 years of working experience, they got salary of RM5000 quite close to a managerial salary and yet they are not Asst Manager.

My roomate, is a job hopper, change 4 jobs in 2 years, and every increment averagely up to RM500, even though does not possess relevant experience (every job he did is different in nature) and yet he can obtain high salary.

IT is very diiferent from other industry such as education, banking and corporate where every year of experience, there is a cap. For example if you have 3 years experience, the salary range is within RM2500-RM3000, not like IT want RM4k or RM5k is your wish and you still can get.


That's why the salary range is much wider in IT line compared to any other line.

This post has been edited by chaoshero: Jun 2 2007, 12:57 PM

There supply is always higer than demand,the problem is you might feed your brain always and keep chaising the technology. Success should be coming your way on all fronts, keep it up!

but some of my fren work for 4 yrs onli can get rm2K >.
so sad.its oso depends on ur company.
eveli 2 years jump is a gud ting too at least ur current company wont give u increment rm500.

another programmer here..
just want to ask, what is the market price for a Java developer with 1 year exp?

to me, definitely the demand is there... espescially if u r good in C/C++. again excluding SAP guys... u can only get good pay if u r working with very big company, such as SCOPE, arthur andersen etc..

generally, if u r good in C/C++, get yourself experienced in embedded programming & network programming... get knowledgable in security areas..

i myself actually a reluctant programmer... but i find it becoming useful stepping stone for me to become a consultant, may be by the age of 35-40... and working as a senior consultant with arthur andersen is a five figure income job... as i was told by a fellow manager ini AA.

i suggest those those who are into network programming, proceed to getting certificates... may be CISSP, if u got money go for SANS certificates.. if u have 5 years experience in programming, espescially in network and embedded, then u good enough to stand out among hundreds that apply for that post...

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Added on June 6, 2007, 12:10 pmanother guideline that i always use for salary average for programmers, excluding SAP... start with 2k, for every year completed after the second year, add RM500... thus for completed 5 years experience, u should be around 2k + (500 x (5-1)) = RM4k

why i start counting after 2nd year, because usually companies considered those having only 1 year experience is in the same group as freshies.

this is an average out scenario, so many programmers start with salary lower than 2k, around 1.8k only...

This post has been edited by silentwolf34: Jun 6 2007, 12:10 PM

It is depends on your qualification and which company you're working in.

how abt degree holder, working in sdn bhd with exp in J2EE..??

i work not more than one month already got RM2k +



This post has been edited by edwin3210: Jun 6 2007, 01:41 PM

My company turn over rate for programmer is high. Every year, programmers come and go. Like what the others have said, don't become a programmer if you've no interest in it. If you love what you're doing, I don't think any problem will be an obstacle.

So, a lot of job advertisements for programmer doesn't mean it is a good thing.

It depends on company. Thats the problem with the industry here in Malaysia, I'm not sure about other countries, but there is absolutely no industry standards in determining the wage of a software developer.

Heck even the titles are not standardized. A system analyst in one company can have a totally different role and job scope in another. Totally. As in nothing even remotely related.

Whats worse, is that some small companies let their own employee make up the title, i've been in one like this before. Funny part is the HR or hiring ppl for the IT industry seem to be oblivious to this and treats former job title as an absolute yardstick to measure someone's worth. The industry is a mess.

I assumed you're talking about local based company.
It is around rm2k-2.5k.

bump

i believe ur friends have no balls to pursue IT rather that "because of they believed there is no future to be IT"
I'm IT graduated and more than half of my course mates ended up doing something else because they
do not have passion or interest in pursuing IT or simply "scared" hahaha.

strange...

we hardly hear this complain from other professions like lawyers, doctors, engineers or accountants...

I believed because anyone can become programmer, and it doesn't need cert as long as they're good.
Common people are too afraid of their rice bowl taken away.

Maybe hardly heard complain because lawyers, doctors, engineers, accountants d rice bowl really depends on their cert.

What an old thread

But i agreed on most Darun post. After 10 years of working in IT industry i can strongly feels in general, "techie" are earning way lesser than "talkies" locally.

Even after 5 years, MY IT industry still a mess as before. Nowadays even fresh grad can call themselves SA, not System Analyst but Solution Architect...sigh...

This post has been edited by cazorla81: Dec 23 2013, 01:38 PM

Clearly mentioned from you're from IT.
How is IT now? Very competitive?

Thread
We have another thread to tie in here, which I think is related, they do have some good points there. If these 2 threads are merged, would be good.

I am currently working as a support and programmer at a manufacturing plant. From what I can see is that programmer seem to be at the bottom of the organization hierarchy which indicates a low pay, whereas Business Analyst or the one at the management level have a better pay and rarely involve with programming. So I think that at some point you need to go to the above hierachy for better pay and I dont think that you can do program well when u age as your mind has been deteriorated and they can easily replase you with fresh grad that surrounded by latest tech...

Well, you need to programming games for Pusat hiburan keluarga near your house, pay are quite good
My cousin gets offer recently of rm10000 per game

Hi, I think its not there's no future for programmers. Malaysia is becoming more and more reliant on technology. If anything, Malaysia needs more programmers. Its just a matter of how good of a programmer you are.

If you really are competent and have solid experience (3-4 years) in one or more languages like C#, Java or C++, you should be able to get around 4-5K Singapore dollars in S'pore. If you are into firmware, you can probably fetch a higher price. Also, another factor is domain knowledge. If the company you interviewed for matches your domain, then you can probably fetch highed pay too.

Hi I need a programmer who can be experts in Java and c++

Hi blue_heaven,

I'm in digital marketing line.
To me, programming is where the future is.

Technology is the future and creating disruption in the market.
From fintech, block chain, online marketing, marketing automation, mobile development app etc...

All these related to programming. The only thing you want to do is to keep your knowledge and expertise on the high standard, be competent on what you do.

You'll see great journey not limited to career, but for business too.

Hope this gives you confidence moving forward.

Cheers!

if you really reading the lowyat salary thread.
can find out alot programmer reaching 10k before age 30.
but not much can reach 20k in 40 , unless become PM or CTO

Lol the guy post was 10 years ago and his last active date is 2008

No future or not depends on which stage you look at.

If you plan to become a programmer until age 40-50 then no future.

If you plan to become a programmer at the beginning of your career and take up greater responsibility then yes you might have future.

Programmers who just do only programming don’t have the future, especially in Malaysia. It’s very rare for them to get more than 15k. Of course you can still find someone getting 20k or even 30k by just writing source code but very rare. To be able to reach this height, more or less, you will have to involve in management task. Either people management or technical management like Solution Architect or Software Manager. At some point, you will have to change to do things more than just programming.

just a number of programmer is enjoying the salary while the rest is earning peanut and less than marketing executive inclusive high commission.

Haha. 15k for over 40-50 yo people. Quite in the bell curve right?

Yes... but only true for lousy programmer

probably he made the bucks and busy?

Is this really true?

Me and my colleague earn quite well (in Malaysia).

I earn 10k as a team lead (3.5 years experience) and my colleagues (some 2 years and some > 5 years) are also doing pretty well (well above 5-8k).

I'm pretty sure if you just know how to code you won't grow financially and knowledge wise. Add more verticals by expanding into other stuff like software architecture and devops or maybe even testing.

There are a lot of mediocre developers and it's quite easy to climb up the ladder if you really enjoy it and continuously strive to grow day to day.

My best advice for beginners is don't settle for huge corporations too early, you don't learn much that way.

Ease in with the small companies get a feel for building something from scratch. Once you are tired of that life then go for MNCs/Enterprise with your experience and leverage and enjoy a slow and easy life.

This post has been edited by lightonokira: Jan 28 2018, 05:27 PM

You are a rare case bro. Jobstreet close to 3 million Malaysian CVs, expected as 10k and max experience not more than 4 years one is about 3000 people. 0.1% bro.

This post is made in 2007
nowadays the lower level programmers earn more than average pay of other jobs like graphic designers
the employees are in power for now

now is 2019, more than ten years after the OP, things have changed

Now is 2025

Huge potential to be from a computer science / programmer-based background regardless of AI intervention and the likes...

You get to ensure:
- No bullshitting happening to you by outsourced vendors.
- Able to build and automate systems yourself.
- Lessen external costs by service subscription / chatbot / API integration / web hosting / crm / big data / cybersecurity / digital marketing / etc.
- Able to audit / minify / rewrite codes to make things efficient.
- Able to reduce JavaScript use in favour of Search Engines...
- The list goes on...

Anyone telling otherwise is a complete fib with no technical know-how skillset.