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 No future as Programmer ?, Advice needed

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goldfries
post May 30 2007, 06:46 PM

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QUOTE(blue_heaven @ May 30 2007, 02:32 PM)
How you guys think? Is that true? Anyone have a good example who work as programmer get extremely high pay?
*
let me tell you that it's BULLSHIT. pardon my usage of words, some times some people talk not using their brain.

a lot of people will tell you XYZ no future. like 2 of my friends (who are by now have million with them......but work like silly la), around 5 years ago or so they were telling 1 of my friend that doing web design no future.

now - i make a living with that, and also programming. i live comfortably. and many are doing so. what does that tell you?

programming, like any other job, depends greatly on your attitude. then of course if you are a programmer, remember to update yourself for improvement sake.

just like any other job, your role is replaceable. as you work, programming everyone else can, newbie take a while to learn they can already. BUT your experience + skill is where your true value is.

if you're good, then become senior programmer, group leader, then after a while you may not even be doing programming already but you'll be coordinating your machai of programmers and giving assistance balblabla.

then again this depends on company la.

EDITED : oh btw, just go to jobstreet or whatever site - you'll see that programmers are in demand.

This post has been edited by goldfries: May 30 2007, 06:47 PM
goldfries
post May 30 2007, 06:58 PM

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QUOTE(WhitE LighteR @ May 30 2007, 06:50 PM)
There is lots of job available... just that no one good enough to fill them. Either that or they too demanding.


sometimes you look at the job requirement, it looks so creepy.

programmer wanted
- minimum 5 years experience

must know
- c++
- java
- asp
- jsp
- csp
- php
- oracle
- mysql
- postgresql
- mssql
- cache

applicant must be able to work long hours and ready for on call

sweat.gif
goldfries
post May 30 2007, 07:16 PM

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yeah. just highlighting how ridiculous some requirements can be. usually admin staff just post wan la. tongue.gif
goldfries
post May 30 2007, 09:03 PM

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wah. cobol - you're a rare breed. biggrin.gif

EDITED : they probably discouraging you for reasons that are obvious, that people are now going with many newer languages these days.

on the other hand if you become expert in cobol, the demand is few but the supply is even lesser. smile.gif so you can command quite a hefty fee.

This post has been edited by goldfries: May 30 2007, 09:04 PM
goldfries
post May 31 2007, 01:57 PM

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QUOTE(rexis @ May 31 2007, 08:42 AM)
But you cant say you fully understand how creepy the job is until you really work it. Especially the "able to work long hour and stay on call" part.


rexis, i say creepy i was referring to the requirements. the rest are just to cite what usually is stated in a job opening requirement thing.

and i've work as such before, lost many holidays, sleep hours and weekend. and yes, on call part too. smile.gif

QUOTE(darun @ May 31 2007, 09:58 AM)
That doesn't necessarily mean it has a good future.  How far do you think you can go as a programmer without switching to management?  In Malaysia, the norm is programmers, even senior programmers have a salary cap which you wont be able to exceed unless you cross over to become a manager. 

What's the ratio of programmer to managers?  It is definitely not 1:1.  Lets pick a number, lets say it is 5:1.  So your probability of becoming a manager, assuming all the 5 programmers are equals, is 1/5.  If you dont make it, you salary is flat-lined and wont increase anymore and you have to wait for the next opportunity.

You say you are living comfortably now, so?  Do you have a wife and kids?  Do you have a household to maintain?  Even if you do, do you think the cost will not increase?  When your kids grow, cost for food, leisure, education increases.  You want your paycheck to grow.  But in Malaysia programmers salary are capped. 

In some MNCs (and countries), they dont cap technical positions by non-technical positions, but that is NOT the norm.

Do not confuse opportunity of employment with salary advancement limit.  Just because there's a big market for the job, does not mean the salary advancement limit is high (and dont confuse salary advancement limit to opportunity).  Salary advancement opportunity in the IT industry in Malaysia is high, but the limit/cap is low compared to other white collar professions based on hourly work to pay ratio.

When you talk about future, you want to take ALL of these into consideration.  A lot of ppl switch profession, not because they cannot find another job, in fact they get tons of offer.  Most of my friends that quit IT, is because they realize the amount of work they put in is not worth it, since the cap on the pay is just too low, and the chance to leap to management is not that easy. 

Some ppl are lucky, most are NOT.
which is why i say attitude lor. you definitely have to progress.

yes i have wife and household to maintain. only no kids yet. so busy, kids not a good idea atm. smile.gif

the TS was asking whether "NO FUTURE" as programmer. programmer as you can see (even from your post) has future. decent, good, bad future - it's still there, just depends on the person and how they go about. definitely not no future. not so good in "salary advancement" doesn't mean bad or lousy future either.

my sentence mentioned demand alone. if you wish to bring in "salary advancement issue" then please do so, no need to post as if i'm not aware (or confused) of the difference between opportunity and salary advancement.

also my apologies if you think it's inappropriate for me not to bring in other white color profession into comparison. i did not bring them in as we were just talking about programmers - now that you brought that matter in, it's would be great if you could mention specifically which white collared profession you think is better (job scope + amount of work put in)

i've known people in advertising line that earn 5 - 10k range at their mid 20s. work stress also la. smile.gif

This post has been edited by goldfries: May 31 2007, 02:01 PM
goldfries
post May 31 2007, 02:34 PM

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QUOTE(darun @ May 31 2007, 02:20 PM)
Heh I see salary and career advancement to be more significant to the Future than job demand.  Job demands are ephemeral, they can be a million opportunities today and zero tomorrow.  You can hardly say a profession has bright future based on that.  That is why I tend to look at it from the perspective of salary and career advancement.


yes. i don't disagree with you. smile.gif my post was regarding demand only. good you highlight this matter.

btw no one said it has bright future, i'm just saying it's not "no future". smile.gif you still can make a living out of it and progress, depending on the person and the company joined.

QUOTE(darun @ May 31 2007, 02:20 PM)
In Malaysia, it does not bode well.  As I said, a lot of companies practice capping technical positions with managerial ones.  So you can only progress so far in a technical position like IT.  This what I base my points on.  I've worked in a couple of companies in the US as a software developer, they do NOT cap their technical salary advancements with managerial ones.  In one project that I was in, my team lead earned more than my manager because he had a lot more years of experience.  Try finding that in Malaysia, it is not the norm.
*
yeah that's the thing about M'sian culture or perhaps Asian culture.

 

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