QUOTE(Haledoch @ Aug 27 2018, 08:41 AM)
A pleasure to answer this. With pride, I will boast in the Lord of the blessed Truth that God gives me,
John 10:30
I and My Father are one.
This may be interpreted as one in unity.
Cross reference:
QUOTE
The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one; I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me.
John 17:22-23 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/jhn.17.22-23.NASBIn the portion, Jesus is praying for the unity of all the disciples just as the unity of Himself with the Father.
So when Jesus says he is one with the Father, it is meant as in unity, not one in person.
QUOTE
John 14:9
Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
Jesus is the exact representation of the Father, so the disciples see the Father and his nature in Jesus.
Cross reference:
QUOTE
God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
Hebrews 1:1-3 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/heb.1.1-3.NASBGod spoke to us in the last days through His Son Jesus, who is the exact representation of Him, shares all His glory and power and might.
Hebrews still makes a distinction even though it says he is the exact representation of God.
QUOTE
John 8:58
Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
This is Jesus claim to deity. He's saying he wasnt created at any point in time. He was eternally co-existent with God.
Cross reference
QUOTE
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.
John 1:1-2 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/jhn.1.1-2.NASBHe was eternally co-existent with the Father. He in NOT the Father.
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Then Paul confirmed the Oneness of God in Jesus Christ,
Colossians 2:9
For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;If Jesus Christ is FULLY GOD, then for a trinitarian He must be three persons, which is an impossibility, since Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John bore witness that Jesus Christ IS ONE.
And even an Angel became the witness of the Jesus as the Only True God.
Matthew 1:23
“Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”Listen carefully, this is the SHEMA of Israelites in the past and present, which all of us SHOULD confess and utter every day.
Deuteronomy 6:4
“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is ONE!And only a fool cannot and will not see the above evidence and still want to twist the meaning of the Scriptures to fit their foolish trinity doctrine.
So my advice is: be careful who you pray to, because of this verse,
John 4:24
God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in SPIRIT and TRUTH.”The trinity doctrine is mainstream Christianity. It is widely popular, widely accepted, and the most obvious road for a person to choose. But just remember on this verses,
Matthew 7:13-14
“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.God is a jealous God. So we should be very careful who we worship. Remember the story of Micah in Judges 17. He was a man full of zeal for God, yet his way of worship was not the correct way to worship God. And because of him, he introduced idolatry in the people of Israelites.
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The old and new testament is very explicit that there is God the Father, God the Son and God the Spirit, it teaches us the make the distinction.
For example Psalm 110;
QUOTE
The Lord says to my Lord: "Sit at My right hand Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet."
Psalms 110:1 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/psa.110.1.NASBHere is the most quoted text in the new testament of the messiah.
David says, the Lord says to my Lord, which we know as God talking to Jesus that he will ultimately give him all inheritence.
Old testament explicitly tells us there are two Lords here.
In fact, in the new testament, we learn the Spirit has the role of illumination, conviction, inspiring the recording of scriptures etc. Jesus always refers to the Spirit as 'He'.
You have two options here.
1) To say that all the text we are reading is not what it means.
When Jesus says the Father, he actually means himself. When Jesus refers to the Spirit, he also mean himself.
Or
2) To acknowledge that the the text says what it means. Our God is one in essence, and three in persons.
I think we are going in circles here. Conclusion, If there is one verse that says Jesus is the Father, the doctrine of trinity falls. But 2000 years of studying the scriptures prove there is no such verse.
Aug 20 2018, 05:09 PM
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but I will agree with you that Unitarians lacked the understanding (or choose to ignore) in two points:
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