hmmph

sarcasm or what


kalo LCA kite dapt gripen...memang best la...dapt C/D variant pon ok dah

Serious. Govt has money challenges. Debt is high, revenue is less due to removal of gst n economy not so hnnggh. Promise to rakyat are a lot still to be fulfilled. Defence expenditure will be lowest priority for many years.

So how to build credible defence? ATM should forget all this expensive Rafale, Typhoon, Gripen. Not happening for a long-long time. Even if buy, the numbers will be so insignificant in war.

So better start to think like a miskin underdog force. Realign strategy and equipment.

the govt already given the military poor budget even now...do some google about millitary spending in ASEAN...we among lowest despite got problem here and there...
ohhh....k...iran can threaten people due to nuclear la bro...

what strategy??SAM??its not doable...we got no experience apart from jernas which is short range...so we need more money to train and maintain something we never operate on large scale before....so big no bro...

LCA is good since we have 2 type LCA/LIFT which is hawk and MB339...by having single type we can reduce cost there for train and operation.

MRCA also is need since its a program to replace MIG29 which already retired now....so yeah...all the requirement is needed and its already in place rather than SAM which whole new territory.

for more, wait kertas putih pertahanan in few month...it should help us to know which things got green light or not....

Yes the budget has been poor. It will continue to be poor. TUDM is like that RM2000 salary guy dreaming of Civic Ketam. So I'm saying better look at public transport.

No SAM experience? Cmon! We already operate air defence radars. And as u said we have Jernas. N Navy has Seawolf. Sam operation is just an extension. Radar.. control.. Missile. ATM has radars n missiles experience. Only now to figure out a more capable approach. And if Vietnamese farmers and Arab goatherders can figure out SAM operations back in the 60s/70s, I'm sure our people can too. Vietnam, Singapore, Thai, Myanmar have decent SAM capabilities right now. Where they got experience then? "Not from childbirth.

LCA also doesn't make sense as well. Why buy expensive training aircraft (and LCA is high end Trainer fighter not cikai type prop trainers ) to train pilots for MRCAs that we can't afford?

SAM it is also important and because our country never even have a medium size sam it is a pertinent for air defense.

But there is something wrong with your statement

Airforce does need new fighter since MIG leave a loophole in the air defense especially the interceptor role

while Air Defense are under the the Tentera Darat

they both have their own respected budget why need to kacau air force budget while Darat have their own.
Air force and navy now only operated SHORAD or VSHORAD for base defense as more then that has fall under GAPU territory

for LCA because we need new trainer airfract as for now the MB339 is no more flying
nuff said

dude...you ok or not

SAM can be divided into 3 stage...we have very short range air defence(vshorad)or short range,medium range and long range...jernas and seawolf is within short range...all these type have different type of strategy and deployment..you cant treat short range SAM the same with MRSAM...let alone the type of missile used...if you interested more, you can read about THAAD and patriot missile AD...its not as easy as it seem...if you see the video on YT about those things,you will see some of them even write things on papers...why??even when all this technologies...heheh...find out bro...its not that easy...

LCA or LIFT are different from MRCA....you cant sent LCA to fight with MRCA..both are on different league in term of speed,radar range and ordinance...LCA expensive?....dude...its not that expensive...its just RM is weak compare to USD which we all pay using USD when dealing with international trade...even USAF spending of trainer now with TX100 program because it important to have it...

now the idea is to retain what we have rather than lose it...we already got good enough LCA to train and attack,so we need to retain what we have with the next purchase. using turboprop is cheap...sure but we lose the ability it give compare to hawk and mb399 give us...so we lose there...

MRCA we cant afford???we could afford since the MRCA MIG was retired...so the budget is there...the problem is the govt is willing or not...

Budget comes from the rakyat pockets. It's not the God given right or even constitutional right for each service to get XXX amount. This Three Kingdoms mentality and rivalry is not good.

Anyway many air forces operate large SAM systems. Eg Singapore, Vietnam. I say it's better for C3 purposes for SAM to be under air force

Mig-29.Don't hv to replace. MIG was an air defence fighter, so if really worried about air defence gaps buy a SAM system. Much cheaper then any Mrca squadron.look at Yugoslavia. All their fighters were useless in the war, but their SAM (which was under air force) came out well.

Mb1339 not flying anymorw...n quite new right? Very typical Malaysia. Now have to change to new more expensive Trainer.

But if we don't buy any new MRCAs u don't need Lifts. Or rather need but now only for rwmaining squadrons. I suggest use the Hawks. Or we can outsource training to other places as well.

Routine..... yearly meeting je tu

what ? cooling system? omg

typhoon = continental car

semua main duit rakyat eh, aku pun bayar cukai jugak
dan kalau aku suka lagi kalau ada MPA/AEW dari fighter baru so apa macam

semua masing2 dah ada bajet diperuntukan ikut cabang masing2 bukan main ikut suka

dan doktrin pertahanan negara meletakan pertahanan udara utama pada GAPU tak perlu ikut negara luar sangat.
Malaysia ni bukan besar mana pun dan banyak2 cabantg yang lain

MB339 is not flying due to its engine problem and until piaggio and RR buck up the plane will not fly and since the last crash it will not continue to fly

the Leonardo actually offer to buy back the plane

It's your right to want whatever.

Govt finances now is worse than 5 years ago n this new govt will want to make sure it's not a one term govt. Not many ppl will vote for govt bcoz they buy fighters or MPA/AEW. They care more for PTPTN, subsidies, bailouts..

N sad to hear abt the mb-339. What a waste. Wonder whether there will be an investigation? (PH govt hobby)

This post has been edited by Cubalagi: Jun 22 2019, 11:08 PM

the Piaggio and RR issue is not with ours, PH have to take it up with the Italian

here is another info for MMRCA we have 3 billion have been reserved for this
the last time we heard about the money is when the last administration shift the budget towards MPA

and since the new gomen the news of MPA are started to picking up

IMO any large purchase will have to wait until next election at least

If not PH sure kena whack by BN

the way your reply and thinking is worrisome....here...read some of this about defense...
http://www.malaysiandefence.com/
https://www.janes.com/

its good and simple and it help...there are other good site but here the start...dont relied to much on normal media...all are shit when it come to military be it utusan or malaysiakini...

dont get into "duit rakyat" mentality...its spoken by shit people to shit type of brain....if you follow that type of mentality,then even the money in everyone pocket got your name...is it???when you give money to other for service or material,and that is it...its not your money anymore...even if you pay tax or govt money...its not you money after that...

each of ministry got their budget based on proposal+ expenditure...some get ups and downs due to govt objective.the govt objective is always for the people and voter...so they will concentrate on using the money for the citizen which is why we see education and healthcare will rise each budget...meanwhile some necessity such as millitary ,police,MMEA or bomba get cut here and there...even when govt focus on security,they will make project in country where it give citizen work and industry thus good for the voter rather than our security force...there is a lot of story here...start with amin shah and PSC-Naval Dockyard bro...its a fun read

a lot of things can be explain but i dont think you will want to read more of my comment....so start with above bro..

radar useless if the operator behind is sleeping/incompetent...

whether big purchase or not.. i think ATM & mindef needs to get their fundamentals right.. big or small no matter what there have to be proper procedures to determine what's the best and most appropriate.. too often we hear news of leakages everywhere.. even if big budget is allocated, a high % goes into pocket of 3rd party it will all still go down the drain

If u, like TUDM/ATM dream of mrcas, awacs etc, then you should be worried.

Thanks for the reading links. I hv seen those before. Nothing new.

You can read this. Prof Jomo was in Council of Elders appointed by PH, so he should know what he is saying.

https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/2019/06/...arns-malaysians

Prepare for tough times ahead, n ATM will not be excluded. In fact, I think ATM will be more starved.

if you have seen it,then you will know the TUDM CAP 55(comes with 2 squadron of MRCA+LCA+ground base air defense+MPA+AEW plane+UAV) is doable with around 1.6 billion -2 billion allocated budget for procurement for each RMK(each 5 year)...but by the end of the day, do the govt want to commit to it or not...that is the problem since the beginning...

Cap55 means 2055? .. That's a pretty long 35 more years (exclude this year) or 7 5-year Plans...

Interesting.. That's RM11.2-RM14 billion spending spread over the 35 years? Meaning about RM320-RM400 million a year...and by 2055 you get the end results of CAP55. Is my understanding of what u say correct?

This post has been edited by Cubalagi: Jun 24 2019, 12:11 AM

This thinking is not entirely wrong, but does have some flaws

Economy works in, broadly, 10 year cycles. Right now we are on the cliff of a recession. Say the next year or 2 years it happens. That means in just 6 to 7 years we will see a boom again. Defence expenditure planning can take that into account.

It's possible to build a credible defence, but the question is a credible defence against what of course. The disadvantages of SAMs is that they are limited purpose units which would be useless if, for example, an Mh370 happens again and a fast jet needs to be sent up to see what's going on using pilot eyeballs.

Jets are also useful in case tensions rise with our neighbours - not Singapore, perhaps, but other neighbours. They can support ground troops and represent a powerful political card. So at least some capability here would be very useful.

Even though during a budget crunch period we can only buy cheaper trainer and light combat aircraft, they are important to have because they will provide training and exercise for fighter squadrons in preparation for the possibility of buying more expensive jets in the future. Whereas switching entirely to turboprops and SAMs would basically kill the TUDM fighter capability for literal decades, through loss of experience.

Anyway, even with the current budget its possible to build a "credible defence" force, IF the country spends carefully and the money doesn't mainly go to benefit "local industry" instead... Ahem ahem...

This post has been edited by KLthinker91: Jun 24 2019, 01:46 AM