Rooney and Ronaldo when bought isn't really the finish article are they??? Vidic, Heinze, weren't the defenders with statures of Cannavaro, Samuel and Woodgate weren't they?? Carrick is no Zidane or Figo ain't he??? Nor is Saha a Ronaldo. that's the difference between us and you. You buy ready made, established stars for ridiculous money. And that is a bloody fact.

You're comparing Djemba and Forlan with your backups??Djemba cost around 4 mill and Forlan was 6.9 mill. How much is the likes of Baptista, Robinho, Higuain, Diarra who normally wars your bench again???

As for hating your club, I've never really hidden it have I?? I have always been very vocal about my hatred for Madrid and Chelski and the reason why. Like I said, that reason may not be valid or pathetic to you, a Real Madrid fan. But it's a valid one for many other people. And it won't be that hard for you to find people who hates your club for that same reason as well.

no disrespect to you but tell me this season, which and how many players did u bought to enhance the team? what u guys have won? to be honest, beckham helped u guys a lot to win some crucial matches rite? and how many did he play for the starting eleven? how many times he was left out?

we bought big names and bring them to our club yes we do. but as you can see do we bench them? no no no we dont. we bought them at hell of a price because we believed that they could bring quality to our team. unlike your team which buys players for the sake of winning votes.

lets just compare this season alone. how many signings did your team made? and ours? what does your team has accomplished so far? tell me about that italian striker. what was his name again? Cassano? how many times did he started for first eleven this time? and how many times did our signing Carrick started as first eleven this season? from this reason alone it shows that our point is valid and why we aren't so fond of your club.

Speaking about girls and Liverpool, a friend of mine recently used the lyrics to "You'll Never Walk Alone" in her wedding vows. She got married last month in Phuket, and the vows were recited by the beach, beautiful.

I've also attended 2 other weddings where the couple used "You'll Never Walk Alone" as their walk in song.

Not easy to find women who are Liverpool fans these days.

Need to find a new pin up poster boy for Pool after Michael Owen... . Gonzales next?

English clubs don't even have an election to win.

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Added on May 7, 2007, 10:42 amHey, enough bashing on RealMadrid. They are different from Chelsea. In Chelsea case, one sugardaddy came and take over the club and inject them with millions transfer fund. Their management did not even work for the fund.

But I believe RM is different. As verx and soul said, they got their business plan and their huge transfer fund does not come overnight. Its been decade and this is their tradition I guess. And its good to be own by your own fans. Rather than some business tycoon who took over the club without knowing much about it right? I'm not refering to any particular club here.

RM have the luxury to buy player but not playing them. Thats why many considered RM as the graveyard to footballers.

I'll say the problem about RealMadrid for the past few seasons is their manager. I've lost count on how many manager have managed RM for the past 5 years. Luxembergo (right spelling?), Capello, Queiroz, Camacho, Del Bosque, Ramon and so on... How often do you see a giant club change manager so often?

Well, my knowledge on RM is not really that much. Don't be hard on me.

This post has been edited by prelude23: May 7 2007, 10:51 AM

The money spent on Rooney and Carrick was ridiculous as well considering that they aren't the finished article. I've read some of your posts where u state many times that u think Liverpool spend average money on average players whereas Man Utd spend big money on good players. I agree with that. And Real Madrid buy the likes of Zidane and Figo who are the best of the best with really big money that is legitimately earned. What's wrong with that? You will be hard pressed to find any RM fan who thinks that we wasted our money on Zidane and Figo. If Man Utd brought Ronaldinho now for a record sum why should anyone complain?

I'm not here to change your hatred for RM. I just wanna make u realise that your hatred stems from pure sour grapes and all that principle stuff is just excuses. Barca brought in Deco, Giuly, Ronaldinho, Larsson, Eto'o, Beletti, Edmilson all in one season. For big money no less. I don't see you accusing them of anything

We bought Diarra, Emerson, Cannavaro, Marcelo, Gago and Higuain this season. And all of them have played in the first team and they were all purchases to make the team better. Your point? You need a squad for a league season mind you and Man Utd have their benchwarmers as well or do u need me to remind you? The likes of Park Ji Sung, Smith, Solsjkaer, Richardson don't ring a bell? Comparing Cassano and Carrick?? HAH. He was bought cheap and he was a problem at Roma as well. Go ask Chrisky. We took a risk when we bought him. You would have been better off comparing Diarra to Carrick but then it would make you look stupid because Diarra has been playing regularly for the first team.

This is going way off topic. So I'm ending it here.

This post has been edited by refnulf: May 7 2007, 11:06 AM

Hmm... At least RM money came from their own fans. Unlike Chelsea.

Perhaps, if he stays long enough.

I feel compelled to enter this debate between Man Utd and Real Madrid. Verx seems to be vastly outnumbered but credit to him for fighting till the death.

Comparing Chelsea with Real Madrid is a little unfair if you ask me. Chelsea for one do not have as much history as Real. They've also just recently struck the lottery and are looking for instant results by buying players at exorbitant prices. The criticism is that unlike other clubs with money to spend, they do not need to be accountable for Roman's spending. They could by a player for $30 million pounds, sell him the next season for $3 million pounds and no one would bat an eyelid. I'm not sure it's the same for Real Madrid.

Yes Man Utd have earned their money the hard way. They have won championships and have marketed the club successfully. Just look at the amount of people wearing Man Utd jerseys these days, some of which can't even name you 5 players and probably have no idea the Premiership has already been won. I'm sure no one here is in that category, else you won't even be here talking about your club but, I've see plenty of them even amongst my circle of friends. In some ways, I am disappointed that football is now treated like a business and you get many fans who look to be entertained these days. What's with people who switch off the telly or leave stadiums before the end of the game? Wasn't the game entertaining enough for you? There you have it, fans who only watch the match for entertainment, not because they feel a strong sense of affiliation to their club. I'm going off topic now, let me get back on track. Man Utd have had their fair share of lavish signings in recent years and I suspect that will continue next season. With the likes of Scholes, Neville, Solksjaer and Giggs approaching the end of their careers, surely there is a need to start looking for replacements. With little or no youth players of equal caliber, it's logical to assume that SAF will be looking abroad next season to build a squad big enough to compete on all fronts.

I must admit I don't know much about Real Madrid and how they run the club. I'm rather curious where the funding for big players comes from. It's just petty to fault a club for having more money than you, if it was acquired through legal means, and if they worked hard for it. So what if Real Madrid wants to buy stars if they can afford it? Are they supposed to look for bargains because they feel the rest of the world would envy them? Like Verx said, they pay because they buy the best. Surely, the best players in the world would only play for big clubs, and Real Madrid are a big club.

Nice point DukeRed

But actually, I think the Manutd fans were saying that their hatred towards RM is because RM buy good players but often end up benching them and not playing them which I think is quite true. But hey, RM have the luxury for that thanks to their business plan and solid history.

This post has been edited by prelude23: May 7 2007, 11:34 AM

Just because you sign a big name player, it doesn't mean he's going to play well. Look at Sheva and Ballack for Chelsea. As far as I'm concerned, if you don't play well, you sit on the bench regardless of the price tag on top of your head. It takes a brave manager to bench high profile players but it needs to be done. Many players have inflated egos and it's good to put them in their place every now and then.

Before Perez took over we didn't actually splash that much as we also had heavy debts at that time. Perez despite his obvious flaws was a very good businessman. The sale of our training ground helped to clear off the debts but i would like to make it clear here that the money DID NOT come from the government (I have details on the deal and i think i'll post them later in the RM thread). Real Madrid is a non-profit organisation and they have to be very transparent especially when u have almost 85000 owners and have to provide a financial report to them every year. We then went on a marketing rampage taking the Real Madrid brand to new heights especially in South America, Japan, China, US making us the highest revenue generators for a football club. This in turn secures the club's future for a very long time.

I've always admired Real Madrid for the simple fact that they've always been a very classy team to begin with, with or without the galactico tag. The era of Hierro, Mijatovic, Redondo, etc always had class oozing out of their play, very much similar to the great Milan side of the early 90s when they were playing most of their European rivals of the park. You'd never seen Baresi break a sweat, Maldini not fully committed, and of course, the attacking trident that is Rijkaard, Van Basten and Gullit. Don't forget all the other european illuminaries that have graced the Red n Black, including Papin, Weah, Desailly, etc.

As for Chelsea, I began looking out for their results ever since Hoddle took over the club. The stylish European play as opposed to the Howard Wilkinson days of hoofing the ball upwards and forwards. After Hoddle, am glad to see that all other managers that came in also took after the same book, e.g. Gullit, Vialli, etc. Of course, this style and panache of Chelsea has always been evident in the club's history, looking back to the stylish play of the Cup-winning team of the 1970s (Ossie and Co). Of course, the game has changed since then, and in JM, we have one of our most practical managers ever, but can't say that the change has been bad, what we becoming successful for once in my lifetime as a Chelsea supporter.

I've had my share of ups and downs as well with the Blues, wonderful wonderful memories when we can beat Man U 5-0 and lose to Sunderland 1-3 all in one season. And losing to 'great' European teams like Stavanger and Hapoel (i think - can't be bothered to look up) has always been an eye-opener for a Chelsea fan in the late 90s. Granted, I didn't really feel the pain of relegation as we were already promoted by the time I support the club, but I don't think my allegiance would change as it is already etched in my consciousness that Blue will always be my colour. Of course, I won't make the rookie mistake of placing my missus above my club but it's fair to say that my blood has always been Blue and Blue it will be forever.

Also, this thread was meant to ask the simple question of "What actually makes you support a team..." so let's keep it that way, shall we? No point in arguing who has the better case in supporting his/her club, there will always be someone with another case. And there will always be bandwagoners and glory hunters, let's just accept that. Not saying that I condone it, just that in Malaysia, there are loads of these people hanging around/lying around. Wearing the jersey without knowing the history, players, etc. Makes me sick, but nothing we can do about it, esp with the betting, the exposure, etc. Maybe all of them can learn a thing or two from the TRUE supporters in LYN on how to properly support a football team/club as I'd think the TRUE fans here are definitely worth their pinch of salt.

Again, my 2 cents.

Perez took over from Lorenzo Sanz and got rid of the debt. Although that was contradicted by Ramon Calderon. He was also quite the marketing genius. Still, his galactico purchases hasn't been that good since 2002 I think. And he hasn't handle several things properly, like Makelele. And Del Bosque's termination, etc. Galacticos haven't been doin well, etc.

oh well probably u might want to compare Rooney and Cassano? Both are problematic at their previous club I'd say?

I'm sorry to not being fond of your club. You might have been a lifelong supporter of RM. As I've said no disrespect to your club, but some of the glory hunters are claimed they are supporting RM or Chelsea and boasting how good their players are. Big names and everything.

definitely, everything is off topic now. I think it is better for the mods to close this thread before any other heated 'discussions'.

i oso same as u, cheers brother

wat the hell wif all the debate??

Arsenal is the best....nuff said....though they did not win trophy for some times oledi but they did not spill a big chunk of money to buy super farking star players.....

that's wat i like bout Arsenal.....do it their own way.......train their own superstar....

I'm on your back. Not to say who's the best. But I'm watching Arsenal growing now with all their youngsters, gaining experience and becoming better along the way. Good job Arsenal

Man Utd - Ronaldo & Rooney
Chelsea - Mikel & Kalou
Arsenal - Fabregas & Walcott
Liverpool - Insua & Paletta

all these exciting youngsters will shine

thats why we cant stop supporting our team..it will never die..

This post has been edited by eltan: May 7 2007, 05:29 PM

Thanks man, back that time it seems like there's only 2 team competing in the EPL. Liverpool and United fan base are so huge that if you throw a stone toward a crowd, most probably its gonna hit one of them.

Durin pre abramovich era, I remember far too often liverpool and united fans making fun of Chelsea and invite us to support their team. Why support weak team, appearance on tv for a season less than 10 times. .Well at that time, kiddo thinking mar.

But the most impressive thing I saw since the beginning of EPL is Arsenal unbeatable record. This is done all at the same time by playing beautiful free flowing football.

Real Madrid is a marketing genius and I remember they sold their old stadium to the local council and built a new one........yet they still earn a huge amount of profit.

Buying a good, establish and proven players could come cheap but given the buyer is not from the establish one. If I'm the seller and united, chelsea or real willing to buy, would I sell it cheap. Its nothing personal, its just business ... trump

This post has been edited by seydee: May 7 2007, 05:33 PM