This is like Proton releasing a new car that can't run and needs those under-the-tree mechanics to forge parts to make it run. Wow, what an excellent game development company. Or is it bug development company? Modding in Oblivion isn't actual "modding" per say. More like "fixing the horrible design choices by Todd Howard".

To be fair, fallout had difficulty sliders too. But fallout was never about mass murder (AKA combat in bethsoft's FO definition). Sure, combat was bloody fun (literally), but it paled in comparison to the RPG elements it offered. FO3 is gonna change that though - it'll be the exact opposite. Combat would be fun (if you're a console junkie who can't double-rocket an opponent or railgun a strafing enemy while in mid air) and that's about everything FO3 would be able to offer (if one judge from the gameplay videos nowadays).

Yeah, it's gonna introduce something that the fallout series never had - shallowness. Think of Fallout 1 as the genius big brother of the family, a little boring and socially-inept but you love him regardless because he is just so deep and open minded. Think of Fallout 2 as the hippy middle kid, addicted to pop culture and talented in many areas, although only slightly less intelligent than his big brother.

Now think of Fallout 3 as the retarded kid that slipped out of the doctor's hands and knocked his head on the ground during conception.

Todd Howard - Champion of RPG Retardation.

Lemme guess. You have no idea what Fallout is and you are a hardcore FPS fan. You like the nuclear explosions and the gibs, and want nothing more than that and only that. You want to kill stuff, see them explode into polygonal chunks and splatter the whole monitor screen. You go to sleep immediately after reading 3 words of a dialogue and want nothing more to get it over with and continue your slaughter.

Well good news is, you'll LOVE fallout 3. Because that's excatly what Bethsoft did to FO3.

I guess you won't get my point as long as you don't realize what is so attractive about fallout series that caused so much hate towards Beth's attempt to turn fallout into an action RPG. And like I said, you, being a bigger fan of FPS than RPG, would never understand why we feel that way against Beth, no matter how hard you try.

Which isn't wrong. We all got our own preferences anyway.

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Added on October 18, 2008, 9:18 amActually, there're gameplay videos and tons of hands-on experiences. Even leaked gameplay videos (live one at that). Plenty of material for us to judge.

This post has been edited by soggie: Oct 18 2008, 09:18 AM

Then you will love FO3, because it's all about combat in FO3. Gather equipment, gain levels, kill baddies. All done in a post-apoc environment.

Wait... that sounds familiar. STALKER anybody? Bioshock anybody? Gears of War? Heck, take away the post-apoc and level thing and you'll have GTA, Mercenaries, Crysis, Farcry, yada yada.

Bioshock = retro post-apoc, with slight RPG elements
Gears of War = bleak gray and more gray... just like FO3!!!

Mercenaries/GTA/Farcry/Crysis = Sandbox game, which is what Todd loves. Immershun!

Last time I remembered, Oblivion was voted game of the year and got 9/10 ratings across 90% of reviews, despite the plethora of bugs, horrible level scalling, retarded storyline, smaller world than Morrowind, horrible voice acting, f*cked up animation as well as the biggest lie in the game industry that was Radiant AI.

Beth's PR machine is ruthless and powerful. You give its game a bad rep, it'll preclude you from future PR events, so US mags are always kissing their asses. Let's wait for the Europeans' say on this. For some reasons the french and the germans seemed to be the only ones familiar with the older fallouts, while the US game journalists are easily persuaded by gore gore action gore and more gore.

If there's any modding tools that takes away Agility and Perception (or at least not have them affect my chances to hit and damage output), then it'll be pretty fun. It'll be like STALKER FPS with more elaborate quest system (which STALKER didn't have). That'd rock. Too bad Beth had to turn Fallout 3 into an FPS. Had they done a pure FPS, it would have been much better.

Two more nice articles for you guys:

Fallout from the eyes of a JRPG player

Fallout 180 (Conversion to the religion)



This post has been edited by soggie: Oct 23 2008, 09:49 AM

Stop beating the stawman my friend. When Morrowind came up, fans of Daggerfall cried foul for the vastly smaller map and more linear main quest. Then people said play it before you judge. So people buy it and it sold like hot cakes. Turns out it wasn't very good. Then came Oblivion. Again the morrowind fans cried foul for the even smaller world in Oblivion, but then again people say buy it before you judge. And then Oblivion came out, and guess what, again it sucked. And now you're basically saying the same thing.

How many times do you need to get screwed in the arse to finally realize that you're being sodomized?

Now about isometric with 3D graphics, anything wrong with it? I don't see Blizzard suddenly turning Diablo 3 into an FPS. I don't see Bioware turning Neverwinter Nights 2 into FPS. Try turning Final Fantasy into a FPS and see how the fans take it. Try turning starcraft 2 into a command & conquer control scheme and see how the fans take it. Try turning Crysis 3 into third person and see how the fans take it. Heck, try turning The Elder Scrolls 5 into isometric AND see how the Oblivion fans take it!

It's not about FPS pwns isometric or vice versa. The genre is best represented via isometric, and to change that is to alienate the entire fan base who got used to what they came to love as one of the best part of the game itself (aside from the incredible world and non-linear quest lines).

Seems like somebody here needs to pull their heads out of bethesda's PR machine's arse before they realize why fallout fans are so upset about FO3 being FPS.

Sigh, another "play the game first" guy. Haven't we beaten that strawman enough now? Dude, do yourself a favor - read back at this thread.

I guess you don't really understand what really made fallout shine is completely different than what made oblivion shine (to their fans)? They are different genres - Oblivion tries to impose immersion on the player while fallout tries to stay true to its PnP roots. Both have different aims and what Bethesda is doing is taking all that fallout stands for, rip it apart, take the artwork and universe and slapped it onto a thinly disguised Oblivion. To call it Oblivion with guns is extremely accurate.

I'm playing Oblivion right now and I can tell you how much it sucks as a RPG. The plethora of bugs and "immersion" breakers are everywhere. I seriously don't get the FPS + RPG part - not that it's undoable, but rather in Beth's case of FO3 it's horribly implemented, judging from the gameplay footage.

Had they called it Oblivion Apocalypse or Fallout: East Coast, I wouldn't be that pissed off. That's like taking Hellgate: London and then renaming it to Diablo 3. See how the Diable 3 fans react.

Seriously, I would rather the fallout franchise stop at Fallout 2 and being remembered as a cult classic instead of being butchered by Bethsoft in a lame excuse to extend the series and milk the franchise dry of cash.

Like I said, how many times does one need to get f***ed in the arse to realize they're sodomized?

And the thing about constructive criticism is, Beth's not listening. They never do. Look what happened to Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion. Enough evidences yet?

Firstly, "Van Buren" is a codename for the abandoned Fallout 3 project, just like V13 is the project codename for Fallout Online. If it was released, it will still be called Fallout 3.

Secondly, FPS and RTS had always outnumbered RPG games since 10 years ago. Fallout was released in 1997, and guess what FPS and RTS were released in the same year? Quake 2. Total Annihilation. Dungeon Keeper. Blood. Tomb Raider 2. And a whole lot. Not to mention the starcraft craze at that time, as well as die hard Quake, Doom and Duke Nukem players from before. You can't say that because FPS and RTS outnumbers RPG developers would have to turn RPGs into FPS just to please the masses.

That's like saying because more people drive sports cars than ride a sports bike that the manufacturers should turn sports bikes into the shape of cars too.

The reason why so little good RPGs are released nowadays is because RPGs are always a niche market - something that not many could appreciate due to widespread ADD plague (attention deficit disorder), or more suitably known as the "lack of attention to read any text at all". This means developers would have to develop games for people who are intelligently bankrupt and incapable of sitting down and actually immersing themselves in a make believe world with a make believe character, thus causing the massive exodus from traditional story and plot-heavy RPGs to Action RPGs (and then to MMORPGS for the social factor).

Isometric could work for Fallout 3. Or rather, a 3rd person view could work wonderfully for fallout. Heck, Bethesda got the artwork right. If only they put the camera up higher in the sky rather than FPS and using a real-time-with-pause mechanism PLUS a turn-based alternative combat ALA Fallout Tactics, that would appease a lot of die hard fallout fans. But they still need to hire proper voice actors, animators and writers. Beth sucks at those departments.

Arcanum 5? I never realized Arcanum had so many sequels...

I totally LOLed at this sentence.

I don't recall being able to blind anybody in the previous games. That's probably because they die before the blindness can take effect

But I do miss groin shots, and the hillarious descriptions: "x was critically hit in the groin for y damage. Her childbearing days are over."

I wonder why people would even think FO3 is a good game.

OMG, this game totally rocks! It has more than 200 endings!!!

Well sorry lar, it has only FOUR f***ing endings.

Good Ending
Coward Ending
Bad Ending
Corrupt Ending

The way I see it, there's only two endings.



This post has been edited by soggie: Oct 30 2008, 11:45 PM