The bondage and decay came to human when Adam and Eve sinned, when paradise was lost, when death came. Now we are waiting for the perfect to come, the perfection that Christ promised, when there will be no tears, pain and suffering (Rev 21), hence the groanings. I don't know if you understand what I'm saying or not

Whole chapter 14 is a rebuke to the Corithians for selfishly coveting the the gift of speaking in tongues.

Paul is telling them, desire prophecy over tongues (v1), because if you speak in a tongue, nobody understands you (v2), but if you prophecy, you edify other people (v3). If you speak in a tongue, you puff yourself up, but if you prophecy, you edify the church (v4), I wish you all spoke in tongues, but prophesying is superior, unless tongues is interpreted (v5).

The whole context here is about the gift of tongues for the edification of the church.

To say that in v2 is talking about another type of tongue praying that you can use to speak to God just defeats the purpose of the gifts, which is for the benefit of others, out of context, and just redundant when we can speak perfectly well in "normal" human language with God.

We are going in circles with this, so this will be my last post about tongues.

Have a good day.

To be liberated from bodange and decay means that the awaiting is for the blessed hope, more accurately our new Body, it's more in the context of this world passing away it's not we suffering due to sin. If you say that groaning is because we are suffering due to sin, you're also saying Christ's blood did not wash away your sins, hence your stigma of sin is stuck with you. Think about.

The discouraging of speaking in tongues if there is no interpreter .....The key verse is in 23...(the whole church). The speaking in tongues that I've mentioned is a personal one to one (verse 2) because the speaking is to God and the key phrase used...(not to people but to God), do you see that?..Not to people means it's not for the Mass congregation. Further more, Paul also mention this;
The speaking in tongues for the edification of ourselves. (verse 4).Paul put a difference..edification of ourselves vs the Church. What is the point of equating edification of ourself = mass congregation? It would be meaningless to try and differentiate that with speaking in tongues and prophecy...else there can be no differentiation.

One more thing. Do you realize the way Paul expressed about tongues in 1 Corinthians 14:9, the way he equates speaking in tongues = unintelligible words and he used the phrase;
how will anyone know what you are saying?..meaning to say speaking in tongues, nobody can understand the babbling or expression ...only God knows, so you can't say the way we speak in tongues = Other language of other nation as in books of Acts. Those are intelligible words.

No, it's not about we can speak perfectly in normal human language. The problem is that sometime we can out of God's will type of prayer in our normal language. Praying in the spirit and praying in tongues is to allow the Holy Spirit helps us pray to the perfect will of God. The Holy Spirit knows how to pray better but through us.

It's up to you. The above explanation is quite simple to understand but you don't want to.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Aug 16 2017, 08:58 AM

Healing is for now, not in Heaven

Mark 16: 17 - 18 (NIV) - And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.

I want to remove and destroy the idea of cessation doctrine on healing.

Look at the keyword here; it's clearly recorded, those who believe in Jesus name...didn't say only the apostles. By the truth of this scripture verse, Healing is for Today. There are people who propagate Healing will only happen when we go to Heaven.

You don't need healing in Heaven. What need is there in Heaven when it's Heaven?

No dear Friends, Healing is need for now, Here on Earth because we do indeed need it for the well being of our bodies as we are living in a fallen world.
To propagate the idea, Healing is no more, cessation has happened is to say Jesus is not for healing and He did not heal anyone and Mark 16:17-18 is a lie.

We all agree Jesus Christ is the same Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow. If He heals during Bible time, He also heals Today and Now. That would be consistent of God and to proclaim Hebrews 13:8 (NIV) - Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

I pray you will receive this revelation.

God Bless.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Aug 16 2017, 09:18 AM

Good morning, am new here

You know what? The NIV that you are using is so different from the NKJV.

I guess that explains the diffrence in understanding.

Try reading NKJV or other literal translations.

I have all the translations. What verse were you referring to specifically?

Hi there.

Well in the Gospel there is Healing and There is prosperity.

Don't respond with emotions, discuss on the points.

You want to play this provocation games with me, if I respond likewise, you won't like it, isn't it?

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Aug 16 2017, 10:46 AM

Ignoring

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Sep 5 2017, 10:50 AM

Has christianity comes to the point where the mere mention of Healing = Prosperity gospel?

Have we also come to the point where the mere mention of the importance of Faith causes offence when it is vital and crucial to Christian living.

Sometime I wonder the people who criticize against these, ever bother to think they're helping to stifle the advancement of the kingdom of God.

Faith and Healing is part and parcel to the christian Faith, it is NOT heresy.

IT is heresy to ridicule faith and to ridicule the importance of Faith and the importance of healing.


When I ask you, desmond to explain your point, you just cannot and simply link articles of other people which i don't know if you fully comprehend or you just read a few lines and think it's right. Have you bother to read the Bible in it's entire wide to say it's right?

If you do, I would like to hear your side of the explanation. I still remember the proverbs case where you still disregard.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Aug 16 2017, 11:20 AM

I am not very fond of the charismatic movement, but I am not against it either.

I have heard about the real tongue gift and read stories about them, of course, being Catholic I searched the catholic version of tongues.

There are a few examples of saints who spoke in other nation's languages without them knowing, while preaching to them.
There were instances of priests spoke in Bahasa but never had any knowledge of Bahasa, while praying for malaysians in UK and Ireland.

I believed those are real.

However there is also the version where the lead (pastor etc) started shimbala kala shumbi malakala shumbilakala

and everyone besides just started mumbo jumbo the same way.
Any new friends who just joined then started to mumbo jumbo

Was it due to peer pressure?
To feel belonged in the group?
or is it really speaking in tongues?

I never ask. I do not think I am in the position to blasphemy against Holy Spirit.
I am also happy my friends feel closer to God with it than without it.

The gifts are meant for increasing one's faith...be it speak in tongues, prophesy, etc.

I however disagree with some churches pastor who repeatedly ask the congregation to speak in tongues, desire tongues etc rather than increase his or her faith.


would you like me to come to your house for a visit and say "Where is my gift, J?"
wouldnt you respond "IM YOUR GIFT!"

This post has been edited by Jedi: Aug 16 2017, 07:36 PM

You and I have the same thought on this because it's the same position that I take.

I don't try to put God, specifically the Holy Spirit into my own worldview of what he can do, be like or sound like. It saddens me that some people actually do that. They try to fit God (whatever it is) into what they think is right.

It may sound weird to some of us but if it's not something evil, We are in no position to call speaking in tongues as evil.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Aug 17 2017, 09:12 AM

Galatians 5:4 (KJV) - Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

What does it mean..whosoever of you are justified by the law? It means you trust in your own strength, your obedience to the Law, your own performance.

Do you realize the people in Jesus days who received his healing were all sinners..and the irony is they could receive! Meaning to say these people realize they have nothing in themselves to justify before God and they relent to just ..want to receive from God without any conditions, without any self justification, and THEY DID!.

Do you realize who in Jesus days could NOT receive Healing? Answer = The Pharisees..Hence Galatians 5:4.

2 Chronicles 26:5 (KJV) - And he sought God in the days of Zechariah, who had understanding in the visions of God: and as long as he sought the LORD, God made him to prosper.

King Uzziah Trusted God at a very young age, 16 Years old and God prospered Him. Prosperity is never something a heresy.

It is only when King Uzziah trust in himself out of pride, he suffered.

I find that people who come against the mere mention of God's prosperity are spiritually immature because there is a spirit of religiosity and some bit of legalism that binds them from being free to understand the Majestic Grace of God.

Ignoring

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Sep 5 2017, 10:46 AM

Ignoring

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Sep 5 2017, 10:46 AM