You took service manual for Lancer GL or ispira then assumed Lancer GT the same? Fyi some referred lancer GT 1385kg sold here and Asia countries that don't bother with EPA regulation as Japanese version Lancer GT. Countries that bother much with EPA rules, their Lancer GT is just the Lancer GL added with rim and kits like highest spec Inspiration. I do pity you sometimes, sound like too ashamed to ask for info direct from Lancer club enthusiast for the original GT specs from factory

In fact I do understand difference between trim and chassis. However the Lancer GT sold in Asia is not just trim but slightly different chassis from Lancer GL chassis which is why it could still sell with strong resale value despite existence of rebadged inspira.

Looks like you're the only one still don't know what's going on. The rest who came here to bash or correct my statement upon seeing your post first, after that they stopped after noticing the hints and actual info that I intended to pass. Your lack of knowledge post on turbocharger effective operating rpm just gave my buddies some idea. Those smart forumners who came including your buddies already notice the whole turbocharger in detailed tech talk is just a blunder to draw them into this thread and make them read the actual point and message that I'm trying to pass.

Since your brain level is the lowest here, the main focus is the turbocharger ineffective rpm part which is also the most important for most car owners in traffic congestion. Yes, most would idle or just light foot on pedal which determines FC. In America, the new Camry 2.5L and Accord 1.5T (tuned for torque) both beaten Optima/Sonata 2.4L and 2.0T (tuned for power). You may say Optima GT has the power when its turbocharger able to draw high dense air in from 1400rpm onwards but do you know that it is already burning more fuel at this stage equivalent to 3.0L engine as per tested by buddies in America on leased test units. If you wanted to say, Accord 1.5T is turbocharged, it's tuning and configuration is towards torque and fuel efficiency using as much fuel as 2.3L car only.

Once again my buddies would like to thank you for helping in their upcoming project. Though they had me sacrificed a bit for using blunder to draw in viewers, as long as it works is ok. Number of viewers really skyrocketed these short few days. This is what people call smart marketing, using your foes to get the work done. When their new products launch, which D segment model will your Korean product planning bring in and how to compete Japanese rivals that already created obstacles and barriers on the road the Koreans cars wanted to go.

Read my post just after you replied me, just a blunder to poke fun at wkc5657 and his gang. Non of the replies address to you, just wkc5657 whereas the actual case study was on Camry 2.5, Accord 1.5T vs Optima GT marketing research. In fact, the 2.5L Japanese D segment actually beats Optima 2.0T in that bumper to bumper crawl test. By the way, the spool spin just to gather dense air but not enough to increase engine torque before the effective rpm. No offense.

As per MMC tech guy who showed me the details on lancer GT and Lancer GL chassis, they both have different code to mark the difference on both chassis. Whatever conversion mode you did to your Walancar is only cosmetic appearance. Like this photo from mudah, there's this modded fake lancer selling at few K difference from real lancer GT, but will people buy at such price when they could get original stock lancer GT with no mods done. If lancer GT worthless, the Lancer will be priced at no difference from fake Lancer like old perdana vs Galant 1994 where the galant rv suffers since eternal rebadged.

However, the Lancer and your lancar are already dated and old. People look forward to new Civic, Altis, Mazda 3 for better long term ownership.

As for modded cars, non of the modshop people are high level engineers equivalent to those in manufacturing cars. Like you for example, you replace original technical parts with custom mods (not from original lancer parts) that never really been through extreme R & D testing. The car will run but how often do you check under bonnet compared to those who stick to original stock cars in long term. How come you check far more than others? Because these mod parts are never perfect that even you don't trust they are safe. A car with serious leakage, noise, rattle, torque loss, suffer serious high FC, bad mixtute with black smoke can still run as long as you refill all the fluids that have leaked off.

This post has been edited by jayraptor: Jul 26 2017, 09:45 AM


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Until now you haven't specified the chassis code for GL and GT. Looks like only source you have is service manual of Lancer GL. Divert mod? I'm still sticking to your walancar topic. You mentioned you took custom ECU for your Walancar apart from changing the cosmetics, maybe the steering wheel and suspension set. Anything else apart from these? Non-technical part no worry. Custom ECU with specific tuning setting will only reset to default if power supply cut off.

Did you replace the stock air intake and exhaust set with stupid custom 1? If you did, most likely the low end torque deteriorates, need to press more pedal than usual whenever moving at low speed, weakened further with the weak old generation CVT gearbox. Also your engine will suffocate from the weaken pressure from air intake resulting in less collective dense air. Same case with the exhaust part, the out pressure down.

Modded car doesn't always breakdown. Most likely having to press pedal more, getting poorer FC and getting more carbon buildup in intake and exhaust manifold, valves. You love maintenance can always clean up. Still cheaper than v6 engine cleaning cost and labour charge.

For others, I'll advise them to keep a car stock and original. If modify also only change bumper, lights, rim, etc to high spec trim or new facelift is ok. Else, save money better. Later on can buy new better car. If mod car like you, after 10 years also still stuck with old junk that is suffering from serious wear and tear compared to stock model of same year.

This post has been edited by jayraptor: Jul 26 2017, 06:59 PM

In marketing, you don't always get fair competition like Korean using C segment to compete Japanese B segment in rm80k price range. You don't know what is bumper to bumper crawl test? That is part of low end torque test. They expect your Optima GT to slash price to cheaper than Japanese D segment 2.4/2.5L. Accord 1.5T and Camry 2.5L aren't really so weak that they'll lose at low end, difference can be just tiny which is why it is wiser to buy Accord or Camry or Mazda 6 for long term ownership. Turbocharged does not always mean better.

Explain in general or technical on how turbocharger works also pointless coz you're not here for LYF cartalk but to vent your anger. Just go down to your low level with fairy tale talk to entertain you. Few smart ones here already suspect that I'm playing a fool with you from the start. You probably already done the low end torque test before I started the turbo blunder talk to poke fun at you.

You ready to get back to actual topic where you should vent your anger at? This is the part where your Korean cars failed against Japanese rival in real world.

I replied based on facts provided by MMC technical.

Regarding the turbo talk, when a person keeps saying rubbish when telling facts, then better tell fairy tale. Like you same thing, maybe should turn to fairy tale talk if you're going to keep attacking without facts to match your level.

Regarding stupid mods, if that Ah Beng is not the type that always check engine bay or listen to noise for anything wrong, most likely he'll end up car stalled by roadside. For you, you always check sure will quickly go workshop or buy parts if anything wrong. Compared to owner with stock inspira, how much have you spent on maintenance? You spend more time checking engine and fixing?

The diagram in your fairy tale dream last night, already passed to you. How come you didn't see?

As for the related post and question, already answered you in Elantra 2.0L vs 1.6T bumper to bumper crawl challenge. If this is not enough, can take Kenny's turbo lancar for example. Say his walancar turbo impeller could only start drawing in dense air to boost the engine from 2500rpm, below that, his walancar only gets the NA strength. If you're driving Lancer 2.4L, sure can beat him.

You can remain stuck in your backward world with obsolete tech. So you're claiming that you're smarter than toyota engineers who created VVTi and calling them stupid on their research result. Wow, then how come you're selling ah Beng parts and not an R&D engineer in overseas? Also, why so afraid to ask local lancer group enthusiast? You may vent anger and kept saying all my points (when not blunder) all wrong but personally you might think otherwise.

Did you regret modding your walancar wasting so much money for nothing at the end? If you change car now, used car dealer might not even dare to accept or take at very low price. JPJ also strict on 2nd hand cars nowadays. Bank loan also another obstacle, might not approve loan coz not original. If loan defaulted, they take in your modded car also worry cannot sell. How many 2nd hand buyer can pay cash in big sums if loan not approved?

Correction to your comment, not everyone think of resale value and FC at first but they only feel pain when terhantuk hit their head on these 2 factors. Monthly petrol price, others with quality original parts fill up full tank twice a month, you fill up every week. Resale value, when comes to selling cars, others selling at market value, you have to keep slashing price because of no buyers.

The modding part, they feel excited and happy at first but later realised the car lost low end torque. Last time shift to D or reverse, the car already start moving move. After modding, need to press pedal only start moving. You remove catalytic converter and exhaust muffler with pipe kosong and DIY short straight muffler, pollution NOx makes your parents and in law, org tua cough and sneeze, deafening noisy to their ears too. Ferry whole family, the car suffers more at low end torque requiring you to floor pedal more, minyak also burn more.

All these like happy first then suffer and regret big time.

My VVT knowledge comes from technical experts, training and recognised engineering guide books. As opposed to your DIY trial and error with Ah Beng source. Which is why you still failed to tell Lancer GT and GL chassis code, really pity you. The service manual that you kept bragging about, you got it from your aunt who bought lancer GL, pinjam to scan or photostat?

The turbocharger theories, since wkc5657 going to twist my facts to fairy tale, I explained to him terbalik way for him to twist back to facts. Fun to see a loser being fooled around. You were around when I first posted correct facts how Santa Fe 2010 and newer 2012 turbodiesel VGT works from intake to exhaust that was applauded by everyone and done torque test showing how it beats 3.5L v6. The location and functions all correctly told as opposed to fairy tale concept to cater wkc5657 brain.

You and wkc5657 can continue to post the twisted fairy tale version theories since you guys love the fairy tale so much. The facts version you don't like because it puts your modded junk to shame. Turbocharged doesn't mean superior in overall. If modded turbo, that is disaster. You take suprimak or preve 1.6T , it can never beat Mazda 3 2.0L NA in overall.

Moderator said I should stick to technical talk even if any of you cannot understand general or in detailed explanation.

Fact is turbocharger effective assist rpm is often referred to turbocharger activate speed in non-technical general explanation to non-technical people. It's on wiki too.

Let's take Preve 1.6T vs NA Honda Civic 2.0L
Civic 2.0
Output 153hp@6500rpm
Torque 190Nm@4300rpm
0-100kmh in 9.2s

Preve 1.6T
Output 138ps@5000rpm
Torque 205Nm@2000-4000rpm
0-100kmh in 9.6s

Based on your chart and claim that the turbocharger could assist before 2000rpm, then by right the preve should has more torque and power than Civic below 4000rpm. Real driving result, the Preve lacks such torque below 2000rpm and only getting the strength and power it needs from 2000rpm onwards only. So how come?

Reason being the impeller in exhaust could only spin the compressor in air intake fast enough to draw in dense air from 2000rpm onwards. Even when turbo is within effective rpm, that doesn't mean it will always beat NA engine which tells why the Civic 2.0L beats the Preve 1.6T (boosted to strength of 2.0L).

In non-technical term explanation for this situation on turbocharger effective rpm, for example you stand at a distance from a fan at speed 1, you won't feel the air. Press speed 2 you can feel air blowing towards you and speed 3 even far more air. This is the same thing on the turbocharger effective assist rpm. The preve 1.6T, from idle to 1999rpm, the impeller and compressor are spinning but not enough to draw in dense air into combustion chamber. Without dense air, less fuel is burned and there's no strong combustion that generates the high power and strength.

If you're really engineer, you won't be so free loitering around LYF spamming sales products. FYI, all engineers and technicians whether from automotive, aeronautical, mining, construction, machineries, etc are so tied up and busy with daily routine and they would rest after office hour or head to gym, cc, home etc. Looks like you're more like from sales. If you're engineer, that is like from modshop self declared engineer (mechanic in reality).

If you doubted that I'm lying, I encourage you to join either toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mazda, Hyundai or Kia as salesman to see for yourself their standard training guide on general technical and marketing talk, it's in the syllabus telling why VVT engines use timing chain for more responsive actuators. If you joined technical department, they'll tell you the same thing.

If you're better than Sebastian, you would have joined car company already, not selling mod parts in forum.

You always like my post back in AW and when I first came here.

wkc5657 doesn't know what is lag so I used the term no turbo-assist range. Since he loves fairy tale, I only told him true story of turbo modding from 80's that have optional Turbo activation separated by plenum. You press a switch, there's this VIS style valve in that plenum that will draws air into alternate route powered by turbocharger. Famous with few old sci-fi flicks back then. Original Mad Max supercharged Ford Falcon has this button to activate the supercharger, the few copies came with turbocharged version. The advantage of this, they can choose, when wanted to save fuel, no turbo. When racing time, turn on the valves.

Regarding “the turbo lag is very bad” this applies to lousy obsolete weak engine with real poor low end torque. Normally this applies to Ah Beng modified turbo and cars still stuck with old obsolete turbo that can't operate at low rpm. That's why Ah Beng always floor pedal hoping for the turbo to help the car move. The modified air intake failed to collect dense air at low rpm all because of the ade gaya xde mutu piping that replaced the original stock rubber plastic air intake that are bent and curved (for very important reason) connected to intake manifold.

Modern day cars with advanced engine provides good low-end torque with good FC even before turbo assist. Their turbo VGT or Twinscroll could assist early, don't feel like waiting at all. People don't feel much turbo lag in new cars that come with turbo.


@TitanRev you questioned my answer on wastegate earlier, this is the further explanation.
1) The wastegate valve, in fact, it does eject excess exhaust gas via its bypass passage that lets these excess exhaust gas out behind the turbocharger impeller. In physics gas flows from high to low pressure. When too much exhaust gas being released from exhaust valve, the impeller would become less efficient when the pressure in impeller too high. So the wastegate opens it's bypass valve letting the excess exhaust gas flow through bypass passage and come out behind the impeller. This would help create vacuum behind the impeller allowing the impeller to spin faster.
2) For large turbo, wastegate prevents the impeller from spinning compressor too fast so that it doesn't draw in too much oxygen from air intake and risk overheating that will result in cracked intake manifold.
>> You notice prominent brand saloon cars that come with turbo, they don‘t have BOV. Ah Beng brain people immediately think of blow off valve releasing into outside when saw the word releasing excess exhaust gas. Fyi, wastegate is bypass passage only let's excess air skip going through turbo, the excess exhaust gas still come out of exhaust pipe after muffler.

This post has been edited by jayraptor: Aug 6 2017, 04:48 PM

If you're referring to turbocharger gauge reading, answer is no. I have mentioned number of times, the torque vs output chart in turbocharged cars are depicted like CVT gear ratio, not fixed.

I assume you know how the gauge and turbo boost work and have tested in real car. The Preve small basic primitive turbocharger is too weak to achieve the reading that you provided. It's turbo effective operating rpm at 2000rpm onwards which means the gauge reading should be 0.3 and would hit 0.5 after passing 3000rpm then surge all way up to 1.0. Preve turbo is tuned to light or mild type only.

If new generation small turbocharger like VGT or Twinscroll, the y could operate from low end thanks to retracted impeller able to boost 0.3 at 1500rpm, 0.5 at 1800rpm, 1.0 at 2100rpm, 1.3 at 3000rpm, 1.5 at 5000rpm.

I pity those Ah Beng modders with outdated turbo can only envy, jealous, and said their turbo better than new generation turbocharger that reduce lag further. If Volvo power pulse can eliminate lag when needed excess power from crawling speed. Yes, as per dares, those Ah Beng turbo always say turbo lag very bad.

This post has been edited by jayraptor: Aug 6 2017, 05:07 PM

I would discourage car owners from modding their cars. Nothing dumb in the old thread that you brought up. Fyi, any automotive engineers will tell you the same thing, don't mod. Modding only sacrifice FC, speed up wear and tear, creates more pollution and subsequently affects resale value, void warranty and also overall satisfaction. If a person has a stock original car and a modded car, most likely he'll drive stock car to work. Why is that? If you want to talk about racing, fyi, most of the cars used for racing are ready to replace all technical parts after race finished. They don't think of wear and tear, high FC etc. These mods are just to help them pass finish line fast. If you're not the type that have money to scrap cars, then don't mod.

If you're still referring to turbo gauge, don't tell me that you don't know that when decelerate and accelerate, the meter reading varies depend on how you control the pedal. The ony best way to test few different cars with turbo is from idle rpm all the way up, at least the reading is always around that range. If your car at 3000rpm, the pressure in exhaust manifold is already high enough to spin the impeller, you floor pedal from there will give you acceleration.

As for this part:
"If new generation small turbocharger like VGT or Twinscroll, the y could operate from low end thanks to retracted impeller able to boost 0.3 at 1500rpm, 0.5 at 1800rpm, 1.0 at 2100rpm, 1.3 at 3000rpm, 1.5 at 5000rpm. "
>>> I'm surprised you haven't notice it was taken from the Elantra sport that you always said wanted to buy. I can post the reading so fast because my buddies with Japanese companies just completed evaluation not long ago, still fresh on my mind. Are you trying to say preve primitive turbo is no different from your Elantra sport VGT.

Most saloon cars that come with turbo are meant for torque and FC, so they are fitted with small turbo either VGT or twinscroll to reduce lag. Only if you are rich, then could get BMW or equivalent that comes with combination of small and large turbo. I never mentioned only small turbo advanced, only thing is cars that most could afford don't have large advanced turbo in luxury cars.

Fyi, modshop owners find the turbocharged Veloster, Koup, Elantra as threat to their business. If these Korean turbocharged are sold at healthy volume with poor resale value, people like Kenny will suffer badly. Imagine there are many cheap 2nd hand Korean 1.6T and 2.0T sold cheap at 40k, no 1 will bother to modify their NA cars with turbo already. I'm surprise the modshop guys still haven't notice. Civic turbo, they are less afraid because of strong resale value, few years still expensive. Modshop guys will always hope for low sales volume, people like Kenny will soon change their mind and attack Korean turbo cars when they realise this.

This post has been edited by jayraptor: Aug 7 2017, 11:56 PM

Ford ecoboost use twinscroll turbocharger from Borgwarner. The preve turbo cannot compare, totally outclassed and outperformed.

Have you checked the price of Ford ecoboost timing belt? They are far more expensive than standard timing belt. You know this is part of the reason that driven people away from Ford? In fact Ford keeps repeating past mistakes again and again that dragged themselves down. Winning Ward doesn't mean it wins practicality.

Like Nissan VQ V6 engine, it won award with Ward's best engine but in reality, you can see how fuel guzzling the Cefiro and early Teana were, yet getting weaker to torque than Camry and Accord 2.4L. Most humiliating was the Cefiro and Teana lost 0-100kmh against Camry and Accord.

Samsung has high end expensive S7 and at the same time, they have the really cheap and lousy J1 to cater for poorer level group. Same case with Borgwarner, they have the advanced state of the art twinscroll, VGT and at the same time, they do sell the cheap primitive turbo.

Yes, like Samsung J1, Borgwarner and other manufacturers do offer cheap primitive turbo to cater for people from modshop. They buy the primitive cheap turbo because it's cheap and also, they don't have the ability to install advanced turbo that requires really high electronic and physics engineering skill in order to make them works.

If preve fitted with Borgwarner, that is like Samsung J1. Wonder why you treat your Elantra sport so low class saying it has same ability as Preve turbo and not advanced like what I said?

Fyi, most of the everyone's favourite and best reliable durable engine with proper power and torque never won any award. That Ecoboost 1.0 nominated best, but in reality world, maintenance costs higher, bearing the name Fixed Or Repair Daily. The first negative point is the expensive belt already. So your point is?

JD Power, Captain Power, Power Ranger, whatsoever, they can nominate whoever best but again it is reality world that people determine which best. If JD Power could nominate Porsche as best reliable, uh that's not everyday car and richmen could pay any sums for best service and spare parts. Honda getting poor score with JD Power but real world, their service still there. If Korean service so damn good, how come got numbers of complain despite so far less customers at service centre? Ranging from slow service to poor workmanship, turning owners round and round with wrong parts being fixed, or left with no spare parts having to wait few weeks to 1-2 months?

Whatever award, it is reality world results that counts