You're just skimming the surface when it comes to foreign talent. Sure everyone knows the likes of Fabregas, C Ronaldo, etc. But there are also alot of foreign talent who don't make the grade. Just because u know a few English players who don't doesn't mean that the quality of English youngsters is as inferior as u are suggesting. For every fringe English player u can name, I can probably name u a Spanish one. That's just how it is.

Now you are just contradicting yourself. Stop taking me round in circles
But I agree with the 2 points...but i think the English should just stick to loaning players to lower division teams. It serves the same purpose. If Man Utd can do it with proven success i don't see why Rafa has anything to complain about.

My question is simply, how come the composition of English players in English teams are so low compared to other leagues, even Spain?

Who have Man Utd loaned out that has come back to the club a success? The spending power of EPL clubs especially the top sides are increasing as foreign owners are coming in. With money to spend, you'd expect these clubs to buy the players they need. My concern with this is that local lads get less and less of an opportunity to break into the first team, that is unless they improve dramatically. What methods then can be implemented to improve the quality of these players?

this is the list of man utd player loaned out but never came back.. (I just copy it randomly, correct me if got something wrong)

This are the few example of United youngster who cannot make it @ United



many more, i'm lazy to paste..

if the were meant to be a man utd player, should i say they are actually are wasted product? Liam Miller (dubbed to be next Roy keane) end up nothing.. same applies to any big club @ EPL

---

Added on March 21, 2007, 6:04 pmso there must be something wrong @ both youth sysytem or reserve league..

just my point of view.. it is debatable anyway..

peace

This post has been edited by maxizanc: Mar 21 2007, 06:06 PM

i'm agree with reserve team playing in lower division....this can let d reserve team play against the more challenging team...let them gain more experience...

Simple. In other countries u don't have to pay ridiculous prices for local players. You could snap up a youngster from our youth side for less than 5m euros. How much did Theo Walcott cost again? And u get the big picture. The prices for English talent is way inflated. How much did Xabi Alonso cost u guys? Imagine if he were English. Do u think he would have cost the same?

You ask that question as if every (or at least most) youngster in the Spanish B sides make it into the 1st team. Most of them don't make it into La Liga teams anyway let alone play for the first team. You'll be amazed how many players have been offloaded by our Castilla team. You say your concern is that the local lads don't get the opportunity. Have u ever considered that they were never going to be good enough anyway? Playing at the highest level not only requires talent, it requires mental toughness. Most won't make it but some will. For Liverpool, Gerrard and Carragher are proof of that.

sorry but may i ask, cant a feeder system within england work?

Each EPL club has to be linked with a Championship level club for a certain number of years or something like that? i know EPL has 20 teams and Championship side has more teams and what happens in the event of promotion or relegation but i am just suggesting.....

feeder system is slightly different from reserve team ,feeder system is where u get potential player from or send u potential player for experience/to gain europe country passport,like Dong from manutd team.while reserve team,the player already inside your team and u don have to pay the feeder club a single penny while u get to train the player yourself correct me if im wrong

nono. i am still with a reserve league but the real talented ones who are ready for first team but not at Chelsea or ManU, they go to the feeder clubs.

kinda how Johnny Evans and Simpson are doing at Sunderland while the young ones who are still learning tactics and the basic fundamentals stay at Reserve or Under 18s

why still go feeder club if they are kind of good?feeder club is club in lower league,loan the player to La liga side,english team is better,in higher league wat

well the debate is that the lower leagues are of higher standard than Reserve level

i nvr support setting up a reserve team club at lower league,is a good idea,but wont work in england,if the reserve team club set in the division 1 championship side,then i might support la,but in lower league,makes no different actually,well,mayb it does matter la but im not that pro to see it

reserve league is important for new players to know about the club's tactics and so on and also for returning players who are recovering for injury but for times when a club needs to send players out to a club with the same philosophy ie LOCAL FEEDER CLUBS where players can get competitive matches at higher level

how to play match at higher level when the feeder club is in lower level league?i think now reserve league is mostly for youngster and player back from injury,so it's slightly different between feeder system and reserve team,anyway,im still not so into a reserve team club,we are going out of topic

I would really like to disagree with this proposal..It's really RIDICULOUS idea

Why those BIGGER clubs wanna send their reserves to the lower tiers of the league to play?? Do they think their reserve team is much more better than the smaller clubs?? Where is the respect for the smaller clubs?? Mind you that even though Liverpool, Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal currently dominated the local league but they are not the ones who founded the League...

Accrington, Aston Villa, Blackburn Rovers, Bolton Wanderers, Burnley, Derby County, Everton, Notts County, Preston North End, Stoke City, West Bromwich Albion & Wolverhampton Wanderers are the first of many who founded the English league..If Rafa's proposal are implemented, what will happen to these smaller clubs?? It shows that foreign managers are showing their disrespect to the English football...

Arsenal under Arsene Wenger managed to nurture their youngsters without any glitches...Why can't other teams do it as well?? As for the lack of quality English players being brought up nowadays, don't blame the system..aren't there are many English players playing for the smaller clubs?? Talent alone won't make someone a good player..they must have tough mentality coz playing for the big teams the pressure is different..so maybe the FA should be doing something about it...see what had happened to Stan Collymore, Francis Jeffers, Michael Ricketts, Michael Bridges and etc..they are good but not mentally tough enough to play for big clubs..

Comparing the Spanish and English league system is absolutely RIDICULOUS too..why?? Do Spain ever achieved something big at the International level?? Like their English counterparts..the answer is NO!..why?? I also dunno why but remember both teams are full with talents that every club in the WORLD wished to sign them...

This system won't work in England, where just for once it would be good to hear a Premiership manager ask what he could do for English football rather than what it could do for him

This post has been edited by Notoriez: Mar 21 2007, 10:44 PM

If this happens .... Arsenal reserves , Chelsea reserves and ManUtd reserves can take top3 easily ...

well,this system is debateable
there are pros and cons
but i wondering why english talented player is so freaking expensive,wenger did mention before and i agree on it

example:
walcott for 17m,is he really rated at this price?well...i don't think so

too early to say that mate..

It wont be as easy as u said. Remember that Man Utd's 2nd team (note: its 2nd team which consists some 1st teamer, not full reserve team) did draw with teams like Exeter City/Burton Albion and lost to Southend United in cup games.

So, to say the reserve teams from these 3 clubs will win it easily is rather over the top.


Another example, WBA slapped a 10-12mil price tag on Curtis Davies during the January transfer window

Perhaps the English media play a part in jacking up the price?

media really headache when come into transfer,they just make fuss of the market

I do realise that the prices of English players are way inflated which is why EPL clubs look abroad. Up until now youth teams (e.g. under-18's) consists of mainly British players, some of which play for the reserve teams as well. Assuming that I manage the youth team for Liverpool, how best can I improve the quality of my players? Some say that great players are born, but good players can be made. I can impart as much theory on my young fledglings as possible but the fact remains that they still need real match exposure. Instead what happens today is that a large proportion of these youngsters do not make into the 1st team. They get picked up by championship sides and the better ones go to smaller EPL sides. In their place come young, arguably more talented youth players from countries like France, Spain, Germany and the rest of Europe. Why bring in youth players from abroad if mine are good enough? As you pointed out, they aren't good enough which is the problem. Why do you think this is so? Would playing competitive matches, more of them as a matter of fact help?

I throughly agree with this but how does one develop mental toughness. I used to play in various sporting competitions (though not on the big stage). I played handball, football, futsal, badminton and basketball (am currently playing in a tournament). What thing I do know is that mental toughness can be developed by exposure to competition. Of course you can send players for motivational courses and such but there is nothing like the real thing.

---

Added on March 22, 2007, 11:43 amThe point of playing the reserves in a lower league is because the argument that teams playing in the championship are stronger than reserve teams. Your argument is therefore invalid. How are they not respecting the smaller clubs? What does who founded the league have anything to do with it?

How are they disrespecting English football by wanting to improve it? By your reckoning, should ALL decisions of the EPL be made by only a committee comprising of these teams? Does it mean that if any other club like Man Utd were to win the league without their consent, it would be disrespectful to these teams?



And now many of these youngsters had to be brought in from abroad? They have already received training overseas before coming over. They aren't exactly raw diamonds.

How does one develop mental toughness? I don't know but perhaps playing competitive matches might help, don't you think? Jeffers has always been crap by the way and Stan Collymore lacked discipline. Ricketts had one good season, anyone can have a lucky streak, look at Darren Bent or Marlon Harewood. Bridges did play consistently for Leeds but he has constantly been plagued by injuries.



Aside from Beckham, Lampard and Gerrard, which other English player is being chased by a foreign team? How many English players are plying their trade overseas? How many made it? Far as I remember only Chris Waddle, Paul Gascoigne, Gary Lineker and to a far lesser extent David Platt made any progress.


It is the responsibility of the FA to improve English football. It is the responsibility of a Premiership manager to improve his team. Each is paid to perform their duties. While I do agree with the implementation of this system, I do accept that it has it's flaws. Instead of completely slamming the idea however, why not build on it? Obviously there is a case here and most people choose to slam it without offering a better solution. At least someone had the gall to say something. It is easy to sit here and ridicule but how about some constructive criticism?

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Mar 22 2007, 11:45 AM