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 AMD Ryzen, AM4 / AM5 Platform

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nrw
post Jul 11 2019, 05:56 PM

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QUOTE(choonyink @ Jul 11 2019, 05:47 PM)
Does the X570 board worth the extra money now? Would it be a good idea if pairing with X470 or B450? Using it for 1440p gaming only.

Looking for a long term usage without major upgrade in the next 3-4 years.

Can sifu here help recommend a good combo with Ryzen 7, mobo and ram?
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only (1440p) gaming what you need pci-e 4 (x570) for?
so go with a good X470 or B450 Board.

Which board depends on the cpu you choose. (Make sure it has bios flashback) Budget examples for B450... MSI Tomahawk, A-Pro,... budget examples for X470... MSI Gaming Pro Carbon, Gaming Plus, Gaming Pro,..

RAM... Just buy a set with nice timings for 3200 (e.g. CL16) or 3600Mhz (CL 17e.g.) You can use those out of the box then if you don't wanna spend time adjusting yourself to get that little bit extra performance.


I went with a X470 Gaming Pro Carbon and 3700x, no regrets.
RAM myself I'm still testing, currently jumping between my Intel systems B-Dies and a new set of DR 32/64gb E-Dies.

This post has been edited by nrw: Jul 11 2019, 06:03 PM
nrw
post Jul 11 2019, 09:50 PM

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QUOTE(nymerine @ Jul 11 2019, 09:44 PM)
I still failed to get my ram running on 3200Mhz stable, Only can go 3000Mhz, not sure what happened. Also for gigabyte motherboard users, careful flashing bios to support latest AMD 3000 CPUs it fucks up your RAID drives.
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cpu, board (bios version), ram, settings(timings, slots) used?

This post has been edited by nrw: Jul 11 2019, 09:52 PM
nrw
post Jul 11 2019, 10:56 PM

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QUOTE(nymerine @ Jul 11 2019, 09:58 PM)
3600X, B450 AORUS M (Bios F40), HX432C16PB3K2/16, Using Slot 1 & 2.

When I was on my 2600X it was fine.
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just to confirm, by slot 1&2 u mean the 2nd and 4th (from the cpu) ya?
nrw
post Jul 11 2019, 11:07 PM

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QUOTE(nymerine @ Jul 11 2019, 11:05 PM)
That's correct. I'm following the motherboard manual instruction for the ram.
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good then, I saw your f40 bios version is still using agesa 1.0.0.2

don't waste your time adjusting timings.
just wait for the board to receive a bios update including at least agesa 1.0.0.3a(b)
with that version your issues should be gone then.

nrw
post Jul 12 2019, 11:16 AM

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user posted image
easier biggrin.gif
small let down for those who bought top end

This post has been edited by nrw: Jul 12 2019, 11:17 AM
nrw
post Jul 13 2019, 07:57 PM

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ya, pro is 512, regular would of been 480 I think; good build!
nrw
post Jul 13 2019, 08:22 PM

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by the way... any way either @terrorist or @AMDmy could pin the following overview?

SORTABLE AMD MB DATABASE | by Raison John Bassig

I think this work is super helpful!
nrw
post Jul 14 2019, 11:17 PM

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QUOTE(nymerine @ Jul 14 2019, 10:16 PM)
Yeah, im not bringing my raid0 just yet, just trying plugging other hdd, it just doesnt detects it unless i put it on sata0 port. sata1-5 did not work.
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Doesn't really make sense.
The only limitations for your mb regarding pci/sata lanes are:
QUOTE
Using M2_F (in PCIe-mode) disables ASATA_0 and ASATA_1.
*Using M2_F (in SATA-mode) disables SATA_3.


You sure you really tried all ports which are meant to be working with your configuration?

This post has been edited by nrw: Jul 14 2019, 11:17 PM
nrw
post Jul 14 2019, 11:27 PM

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QUOTE(nymerine @ Jul 14 2019, 11:23 PM)
Nothing really make sense right now, I have the exact configurations before I changed my CPU. Only difference is the BIOS ver and CPU.
I'm talking w/ Gigabyte supports as well right now.
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Probably it will work again if you revert to an earlier BIOS with your zen+...

Damn this ZEN2 release really was a few weeks to early.
So many (little) issues by rushing the release to meet that silly 7.7 deadline.
AMD would have had much better first time reviews and compatibility if they had just delayed it for 4 weeks and then delivered a smooth launch....
It's not like they had to rush anything with the current state of intel.

This post has been edited by nrw: Jul 14 2019, 11:27 PM
nrw
post Jul 29 2019, 04:53 PM

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QUOTE(llk @ Jul 28 2019, 04:35 PM)
It is always frustrated from 40++ to 50++.
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Cuz the desktop idle behavior sucks big time. Just check your Vcore's and you know why it is in this temperature range despite water cooling.
Without changing power plan, etc. I have had same issues. And even after all the changes I did it's far from ideal.
Tomorrow AMD wanna release a statement on this...
Lets hope the aggressive behavior will be adjusted and we see reasonable Vcore's for low load states and hence lower temperatures.

This post has been edited by nrw: Jul 29 2019, 04:54 PM
nrw
post Jul 29 2019, 04:59 PM

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QUOTE(goldfries @ Jul 29 2019, 01:46 PM)
erm, my Ryzen 5 2600 can run 3200Mhz CL16 at 3600 CL16 also leh.

This one see your processor vs board vs RAM.
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He's right somehow though. The UMC on the Ryzen 3000 IO is way better compared to previous versions.
But yup, 3600 was within the capabilities of Ryzen 2000 as well, and is still pretty much all you need with the infinity fabric (for latency sensitive applications) smile.gif
nrw
post Jul 29 2019, 05:04 PM

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QUOTE(John Chaser @ Jul 29 2019, 02:27 PM)
So we might be getting Ryzen 3950nonX, 3900nonX, 3700nonX, and a R5 3500:
Source ~ TomsHardware
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3500 & 3700 would hardly make ANY sense.
3900 would fill a price gap... (and make some 3900x early adopters quite angry)
nrw
post Jul 29 2019, 06:15 PM

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QUOTE(Bonchi @ Jul 29 2019, 05:54 PM)
if im not mistaken, water cooling dont react to temperature spikes as quickly as air cooling so youd see those temp readings on idle. While on air, for my case it will spike up to 50-60 and immediately go back down to 40s in less than a second.

AMD said it's due to observer effect that the voltages are high.. due to monitoring tools keep triggering the processor to boost.

While from my own observation, applications running on the background such as steam and geforce experience, and even music players will periodically trigger the boost as well. Turning all of those apps off and my vcore will be down to 0.5-0.8v. Im Using ryzen balanced power plan.
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First part your thinking is off. The heat dissipation for WC is faster as it is transferred quicker.

Second part ... That was their first response, yes. By the 'marketing department.
The same department which teased more info on the issue tomorrow.
This is not 'just' an observer effect. They clock unnecessarily high on light load.
nrw
post Jul 29 2019, 06:57 PM

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QUOTE(Bonchi @ Jul 29 2019, 06:40 PM)
dont get me wrong, liquid indeed conducts better than air. what i meant is that it doesnt handle temp fluctuations as quickly as air cooling. but the overall performance especially when it comes to full load no doubt liquid is better. so on air i would see a repeating fluctuation of 40-60C while on liquid youd see a constant 45C maybe.

and yeah. the second part is what i observed and thus turning everything off solves the issues but that is just stupid.
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I know what you mean biggrin.gif But it's wrong. It handles them quicker. The difference is just not as much (rather than quick) because the core temp spikes instantaneous with increasing voltage.
To grab your numbers, on air u'd see 40-60 and the time from 60 down back to 40 is 10 seconds. On water you'd see 35-58 and the time from 58 back down to 35 is ... lets say 6 seconds.

To get back to this:
QUOTE(llk @ Jul 28 2019, 04:35 PM)
It is always frustrated from 40++ to 50++.
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Is your voltage perhaps above 1.4 all the time?
When I matched the fabric speed with my ram (3600 1:1) I had the same issue resulting in higher temps.
When I lowered my ram to 3533 my cpu volted down fine again.

Maybe that's your issue, too.

nrw
post Jul 29 2019, 09:08 PM

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QUOTE(Bonchi @ Jul 29 2019, 07:35 PM)
orly? im just following thermodynamic principles haha. using copper heatpipes vs liquid in tubes as the conducting element. i did not play WC on the ryzen before but this is what i observed from my intel rig last time, the temps wont suddenly drop down as quick as air once you got off high load stress runs.

i suppose the scientific explanation is that water dont change temps as fast as air does. and the temp reading is affected by the residual heat in the entire loop itself.
depends on the apps running really.. with steam on and doing absolutely nothing then only it’s jumping 0.8 to 1.2v. with chrome browsing then i indeed see 1.4v spikes. but i guess im ok as long as it averages out at 40C.. as a first time ryzen user, i just assuming how it is meant to perform laugh.gif so did not realize there’s something wrong with it. temps aside.. i always see the cores kinda stuck at 3.9-4.2ghz which becomes my concern.
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You observe that because you look at core temps. If you put a temperature sensor either on the outer heatspreader or even better in between heatspreader and the cooler you'll see what I mean.
And you know whats inside your CPU coolers heatpipes right? Ammonium and ethanol or distilled water. Which then evaporates and makes it all work wink.gif
nrw
post Jul 31 2019, 12:07 AM

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QUOTE(llk @ Jul 30 2019, 11:29 PM)
Beta driver update for 3rd Gen AMD Ryzen Processors on voltages, clockspeeds, and Destiny 2

https://community.amd.com/community/gaming/...s-and-destiny-2
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thumbup.gif

The good info for you:
QUOTE
As temperature is a function of voltage and frequency, desktop processor temperatures should incrementally decline with the new plan. This is because the processor will spend less time reaching for an unneeded boosted voltage and frequency target. But it goes without saying: any processor will see transient temperature spikes if boost was applied to handle some sort of workload (a browser with tons of tabs, for example).


the interesting stuff:
QUOTE
THE IMMEDIATE SOLUTION Immediately available for download, a new AMD chipset driver (version 1.07.29.xxx) is designed to relax the processor’s sensitivity level to boost requests while running desktop apps like those described above. It will modify the processor’s behavior in two key ways:
1) We will be adjusting the sensitivity of CPPC2. If you are running the Windows 10 May 2019 Update, 3rd Gen Ryzen processors will now use traditional 15ms clock selection intervals when at idle or low load. This has the effect of filtering many of these short-lived or undesirable boost requests, enabling the processor to be more dormant when the workloads are light.  
2) We will also be adjusting how the processor behaves in low or idle workloads. If a processor core is not power gated and sleeping, the processor core will sit at 99% of base clock for low or idle workloads. For example: an AMD Ryzen™ 7 3700X base clock is 3600MHz, so you would see “idle” frequencies around 3564MHz ± 0.08%. This 99% value keeps the active core on a razor’s edge so that your non-trivial applications can easily trigger CPU boost. While boosted, the processor will still control frequency selection in 1ms intervals.
1) seemed to be the obvious solution.
2) sounds rather interesting, lets see how that'll turn out.

QUOTE
2. If a processor core is truly running no workload, the processor core will be placed into the “Core C6” (CC6) power-gated sleep state. Presently, AMD Ryzen Master is the only tool that can show this CC6 state (Figure 3 below). This state may be opportunistically engaged hundreds of times per second. Voltages in this condition might be as low as 0.200V, and clockspeeds down to 0MHz/Sleep are also possible. a. Sidenote: It is also possible for all cores to be in CC6. If this happens, the processor can selectively shut down uncore components and enter an even deeper state called Package C6 (PC6).  
3. Unless a monitoring tool is capable of probing and reporting CC6 sleep state, the tool may simply report out the last voltage and clockspeed that was observed before the processor went to sleep. This may give the illusion that the CPU is “stuck,” which can be interesting if the CPU jumped from high boost to sleep. a. Sidenote: Probing the deeper PC6 state wakes the processor and ruins the power savings. A processor in PC6 will not update your tool(s) until cores are awake.
finally. all this should have been done before the launch. maybe AMD will learn for once and not rush for a silly date such as 7/7 and instead deliver a proper product.

This post has been edited by nrw: Jul 31 2019, 12:17 AM
nrw
post Aug 3 2019, 11:25 AM

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QUOTE(Vashstam82 @ Aug 3 2019, 09:02 AM)
My 3700x system does not give any display on the monitor after booting.. everything on the board seems running fine except no video output (black screen) already flashed to latest bios for my mobo  using qflash plus. After doing some googling.. issue might be with my gpu bios.. dont have any 2nd system to update the gpu tho and dont have other gpu to test.. any one here have similar issue? Might go to a nearby pc repair shop if still cant resolve.

Mobo - x570 aorus master
Gpu - msi 980 ti gaming
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check ur diagnostics led output ... right above the 24pin.
buy such an expensive mobo for a 3700x then at least utilize one of the few benefits la.
nrw
post Aug 3 2019, 12:01 PM

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QUOTE(Vashstam82 @ Aug 3 2019, 11:33 AM)
I already checked that even b4 my initial post here.. its 00 (zero zero).. which i'm still not sure what it means as its not in the manual..
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the relevant part from your manual, boot, observe and you will know.
nrw
post Aug 3 2019, 12:08 PM

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and while you're at it, use the cmos reset button just to make sure it not such a trivial issue

user posted image
nrw
post Aug 6 2019, 11:25 AM

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QUOTE(Ronin_Amin @ Aug 5 2019, 09:16 PM)
Do you guys think they will release new CPU coolers/CPU blocks for the new ryzen because of the chiplet design?
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Maybe enthusiast solutions such as direct die cooling or adjusted cooling plates. Eventhough such or similar solutions already exist. Even for ryzen 3000.
But as those chips are hardly running into concerning temps with good cooling to start with its hardly needed.
Maybe there will be solutions for aio or even air coolers but the premium they will charge will hardly be worth thw 1-2 degrees you gain.

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