Hi Jamespaul,
During 1970/80's , local OEM SC's had been recommending oil filter life of 10,000 km (i.e 2 oil changes @ 5000 km) till todate with use of API SE/SF oils and obsolete manufacturing technology such as 'metal finishing' on contacting components like crankshafts, camshafts, piston rings and piston liners.

As I understand it some (not sure if it's all) Europe VW and MB recommends 30,000 km oil change with Long Life oils like VW 50400 50700, MB 229.5, MB 229.51 etc but not sure about filter change intervals unless some readers can confirm it.

There maybe a 'progressive' OEM SC in KL recommending 15,000 km filter change coinciding with oil change,I don't know and I would like to know if there is any local OEM SC recommending 2X10,000 km or 2X15,000 km filter change.

I'd personally extended filter change to 17,138 km as per my blotter spot tests here with 280k ODO and I strongly believe my blotter is 'clean' enough for extending further filter change interval.

Instead of theorising and speculating on this one may spend chunks of money on UOA and Particle Counts or a cheapo blotter spot test for better 'feel' .

Edit:With my limited knowledge on how oil filter works in our cars, I don't buy the concept of extending oil change interval by replacing oil filter mid way of OCI.
I wouldn't be surprised if 30,000 km filter change interval is recommended in Europe, IDK.

This post has been edited by zeng: Mar 5 2019, 12:58 PM

From what I understand, European cars with extended OCI are using Fleece filter, which lasts up to 40,000km. So, they are fine for 15k to 25k km OCI

I understand that Japanese makers are using cellulose or paper, so hence, I was clarifying with you on if this could be the limitation.


Thanks!

Oh yes you're right , MB specifies Fleece filter which is made of 'special' material which isn't paper/cellulose material that I'm talking about .

Hence there should be limitation for cheapo paper filter but whether a certain specific paper filter can do 30000 km?
.... probably not and I don't know for I'm no fan of higher priced 'quality' filter or so called high performance filter.

One thing I learn is OEM's are always too conservative, as UMW Toyata recommends 5000 km oil change for my Avanza.

VW is recommending 30,000 km oil change interval too but I'm not aware it applies to VW OEM filter too.
I'm not sure about VW OEM filter material details .

This post has been edited by zeng: Mar 5 2019, 01:44 PM

Not only by using different filter material, but also by increasing the oil sump capacity.

Have read about BMW UK now on 2 year oil change interval, so going towards 3 years is not something surprising.

But, a cautious note is that, if you're driving on lease/fleet/business car, then yes, you can go for such interval levels. As after 3 years, the car is returned and replaced with another car. Whatever possible damage won't likely show up at year 3, but definitely will have very adverse impact beyond 5 years of ownership (like our market).

Also, their driving environment is milder with lesser/shorter jams and moderate driving behaviour plus good quality petrol. This should have favourable impact on oil life also.

So, for us malaysians, for the sake of convenience, keep it to 1 year oil change interval using good synthetic oil within 15,000km is still a good habit.

You have to take into account that Europe's fuel and engines are designed for Euro 6 already with less sulphur in the fuel. Their oils also call for low ash formulation.

For our Malaysian roads, most of the time our driving falls under "severe" category due to heat and stop & go traffic.

Since we have high sulphur fuel, we should use full SAPS engine oil.

Depending on the driving scenario.
- if you track your car, yes, the engine oil can exceed operating temperature
- if you are stuck in a jam, but you have a working radiator, operating temperature should remain stable and fine

stop & go traffic isnt that bad, if you maintain your car properly.

From my understanding, "severe" service is for harsh weather, like extreme cold. Our weather are considered good already

Do correct me if I am wrong.

I find that the higher the mileage, the less obvious the center ring is on mobil 1 oil. Does that mean the oil detergent works harder at higher mileage? Anyone could enlighten me?

I lost the blotter test sample at mileage below 2000km but I can assure that the center ring was very obvious at lower mileage.


Attached thumbnail(s)

It may be true at times that a higher mileage oil has less obvious centre ring than a lower mileage oil, whether or not it's a Mobil 1.
It appears to me mileage is not the one and only one factor that affects the 'shape' of a blotter spot test, though it's likely the primary one when we look at an oil's 'trending' in a blotter spot test .
Other factors like oil temperature , engine components temperature etc may 'shape' a blotter spot test centre ring other than lighting etc.

Edit:The 7000 km Mobil 1 ESP has indications of fuel dilution phenomenon, is the engine a Turbo direct injection type ?


This post has been edited by zeng: Mar 25 2019, 02:35 PM

Thanks for the reply. That has been very helpful.

Yes. The mobil 1 ESP 5W30 is on turbo gasoline direct injection engine. Is that normal to have dilution on this type of engine? The sample was taken when the engine is hot after about 1 hour travel.

Gasoline Direct Injection is more prone to fuel dilution problem.
If yours is a certain Japanese or American GDI, I would think it could be 'normal' as some OEM's seems helpless in preempting this problem for some SC's are clueless about the problem and its solution .
European OEM's seems to do better in this .

Anyway looking at your 7000 km blotter and strong specs of M1 ESP 5W30,


I would hazard a guess that it does no harm to the engine at 7000 km, and the oil is still serviceable IMHO.

Edit:BTW, this engine oil spec is recommended for 30,000 km OCI by European MB/VW.

Edit2: Since this 7000 km blotter was taken hot after an hour of travel, it's clear to me the outermost zone points 'solely' to fuel dilution phenomenon.
Most likely it's attributed to being a Gasoline Direct Injection rather than out-of-tune fuel system.

This post has been edited by zeng: Mar 27 2019, 08:26 PM

Thanks for the feedback. I did some readings on fuel dilution yeah it seems happen to many direct injection engines. Read that Acea C2/C3 oil works pretty well on engine suffer from fuel dilution.

Hi Guys,

One thing i do not understand that Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 vs Shell Helix HX8 5W-40. Both are full sync. But why price wise different by so much? Around RM100 per bottle. Any diff? Are they both giving the same performance?

This post has been edited by tsg_7: Apr 29 2019, 12:44 PM

my guess its different quality for application

Imagine, Nippon paint having indoor paint and outdoor paint.

both made my Nippon, one is suitable for outdoor (helix Ultra), one is suitable for indoor (HX8)

Both are good quality paints

Ultra meets more stringent specs.

Their qualities are different.
Ultra 5W40 specs are higher, with BMW LL01, MB 229.5, Porsche A40 etc requiring higher grade base oil (GTL ?) AND higher quality additives package etc.
For applications that did not call for above OEM approvals AND oil change interval < 10,000 km say, they are the same.
For OCI > say 15,000 km , they may not be the same IDK.
In Europe Mercedes, Ultra 5W40 may be spec'ed for 30,000 km OCI. Helix 8 doesn't meet the requirements.




This post has been edited by zeng: Apr 29 2019, 08:33 PM

Thanks for the input.

Thanks for the info. Is the label MB stand for Mercedes Benz? Correct me if im wrong.
Anyway, just change to Shell Helix Ultra 5w-40 and hope my old engine wont take a sip or two of Shell when coming next service.

Yes, you got it right.
Most of the 'modern day' Mercedes Benz you see on KL/JB roads today requires MB 229.5 approvals found in Ultra.
HX8's MB 229.3 doesn't make it.

but what is the number stand for?
i.e. MB 229.5 / 229.3??

Just to share mine.

Car Type/Utilization/Speed/RPM
Type : Honda City iDSI Y2003
Utilz: 5.2km/week
Speed: <90km/h
RPM : <3000r/m

Last OD
Date: 04/02/2015
Odo : 50,709km

Blotter
Date: 04/06/2019
Odo : 57,506km

EO Type/Age
Type: Honda Semi Syn 5W30 4L
Age : 4y4m & 6,797km



This post has been edited by Trony: Jun 7 2019, 02:31 PM

Thanks for posting , Trony.
The centre zone is quite dark, indicating rather substantial levels of combustion byproducts , acidification etc.
Good news is there is absence of dark solid perimeter ring in centre zone , indicating the oil's dispersancy/detergency capability has not badly broken down yet, hence no irrepairable severe engine damage has occurred despite 4.5 yo oil in use.

Would I recommend 9000 km OCI and beyond ? Probably not and I personally may be comfortable at up to 7500-8000 km.

In a way, this 4.5 year old engine oil is not causing excessive engine wear rates , yet.
The darker centre zone is also caused by oil oxidation from unusually low usage AND long oil age, but it is still holding up fine ..... may be not for too long from now.

Outermost zone obviously indicate quite bad fuel dilution problem whereby its Kinematic Viscosity at 100*C (KV100C) may have dropped to 7.5 -8.5 cSt from virgin KV100C of around 10.5 cSt.
In a way this unusally low viscosity (caused by fuel dilution) is bad but I believe it's not causing bad metal wear due to your low usage and cold engine oil in operation most of the time.

The intermidiate zone is not darkened yet, indicating it has additional capacity to absorb more contaminants. However ,dark coloured solid centre perameter ring (representing failure in detergency/dispersancy oil capability) is something you want to avoid and look out for.

This post has been edited by zeng: Jun 9 2019, 09:53 PM