Is it the feel drive conti car will different drive Asian car? If get high end Asian car like Lexus will it same feel as conti car?

it will never feel the same. Conti cars make you religious, Asian cars don't. Don't get italian cars, you will be praying every time before you turn the ignition.

+1
its legitimately night and day for me whenever i jump cars

This post has been edited by itisludwig: Oct 31 2016, 10:36 PM

but in all honesty. lexus are nice car. i love the feel

What's that suppose to mean. Enlighten me please lol.

It's not apples to apples. Skoda are classified as a conti in Malaysia but they are a world away from BMW and Jaguar. It's like saying Proton and Toyota are in the same category because they are Asian cars. Each brand has its own strengths and weaknesses.

What are your experiences with Skoda?

I was passenger in a Skoda Superb II, and it was superb. Quiet, comfortable, and as roomy as hell.

There are obviously big differences between contis, and what they want to achieve. It is similar with Japs. Some cars want to get you from A to B safely (for example the Golf, though it also tries to be fun as far as that doesn't compromise safety), while others are all about the fun (Seat Leon, though closely related to the Golf, is far more engaging to drive, and the F20 1 series BMW does fun rather well too, without sacrificing comfort). The French (Citroen and Renault) are more interested in comfort, while Peugeot is aiming for fun (and IMHO the 208 is great fun, I only had one for a day, but I think I fell in love a bit...). In terms of refinement I feel like VW spends the most in premium feeling materials and dampening, while the French are a bit more creative in creating an interesting and nice environment without having to spend too much. Seat and Skoda are more to a budget, though still far ahead of the Japs.

Keep in mind that Japanese brands tend to offer cars for the Asian market that they don't offer in Europe or some other more demanding areas (I wouldn't call the US demanding, they have other priorities like that the car needs to last forever, but it doesn't need to feel posh or well built. Big panel gaps? Who cares). The cars in Malaysia are meant to get you from A to B, somehow. Price is important, space is important. Fun, safety, not important. Posh feeling? Not important. (Of course the bigger, more expensive the car, the posher it is, generally speaking. Same applies for contis).

If you want the Conti feel in a Japanese car, I'd say your best bet is a Mazda. Lexus is good too. I've been in their small hybrid, and while it lacks the style, it is refined like a VW or above would be. The rear passengers don't sit as good though, it feels rather cheap back there.

I think Karenalvin is joking. What do you do as a religious person? You pray. Italian cars, being so unreliable (that's an outdated stereotype though, they aren't worse than others) will make you pray... pray that the car will work.

Anyway I only drive conti cars, and my mother doesn't want any Japanese either... a) because of Japanese occupation, and b) because of terrible experiences (like a Japanese car falling apart beyond repair after 2 years or so...). There is a certain refinement, a certain feeling that the car doesn't just want to get you to the destination in them.

This post has been edited by kadajawi: Nov 1 2016, 01:42 AM

This discussion belongs 50 years ago. In this modern age the lines between brands are being blurred. Proton Savvy is a Malaysian car with a Conti engine. The new Merc pickup is a Nissan Navara underneath. Lexus and Infiniti are being compared favourably to BMW and Audi. JLR is owned by Indians, Volvo owned by Chinese, VW owned by Arabs etc. As for who 'makes' the car, engineers, designers, management and workforce are made up of people of every nation. And that's before you include assembly. The Toyota Camry is the most American car in America if you consider where all the parts come from. Toyota Crown feels like Conti car, Renault Captur feels like Asian car.

For a more traditional answer, if you drive Conti car ppl think you rich, drive Asian car ppl think you can't afford Conti lol.

Erm. Disagreed. There is a difference when you drive them or are passenger in them. Which Toyota Crown are you talking about? The old taxis? Nope. Don't feel conti to me, more American. Different companies pay attention to different things, different countries pay different attention to different things. European cars are always more about driving enjoyment (be it comfort, be it driving fast) than their Japanese counterparts, except for Mazda and a couple of models. Japanese sports cars are obviously fun. But for ordinary everyday road cars, say C segment cars, there is a difference. Having space for huge families doesn't matter nearly as much in Europe. The C segment BMW 1 series is perhaps as tight inside as a Myvi, perhaps even more so. Doesn't matter. Fun is more important.

Where is VW owned by Arabs? Qatar owns roughly 15%, even the German government is close to that figure.

Get into two similar priced car from conti and jap, like a VW Passat/Pug 408 vs Toyota Camry and Honda Accord.

Drive the car around, go over some potholes, tackle some corner tad too fast.

Most should able to tell the difference.

Also, Cont makes and Jap makes are not about origin of brand, owner or manufactured location. It's more about the heritage they carry over.

Like to chip in a bit here, there is obvious differences between conti dan jap cars, or any other makes with the DNAs (Protons, Koreans etc.).

Overall Conti have the edge for me - the interiors feels much better/refined then Jap cars of the same class and price bracket. The euro engine are more suited to cruising, where as Jap engine have good start/stop acceleration, better for town drive.

basically es250 and camry more or less the same car..so, the feel going to be the same?

wait for another 3-4 years, then you will see how the conti interior feels..


oh wai... conti car owners change car every 3-4 years

pug 508. btw, my dad used to drive 508..now he drive camry hybrid. both car priced more or less the same..same segment. but he still feel the camry a bit like a toy/cheap car although the engine,nvh perform better than the 508.

probably meaning you will be praying more it does not break down

lol... considering TS trolling from kopitiam... this endless loop discussion of asian vs conti cars... believe that what he asked is a very surface of the status of driving an asian car vs conti cars.... he doesnt really bother about refinement or reliability or other technical specs anyway....

The problem lies with people, not car. That's why we have so many manufacturers from all around the world. Some people want to drive rare cars, some prefer hot sellers for cheaper parts, some prefer performance, some prefer luxury. Whatever you choose, don't complain because it's your own damn choice. Why are you complaining now after you made your choice? If you can't afford it then work harder.

An Italian car(Alfa Romeo, FIAT, Lancia) is a car with a soul...You drive its she will feedback to you.
Priority in designing by Italian is 1st Fun, second comfort...ahahaha...

If you do preventive maintenance, it will last long.

Wear and tear parts can be order from UK with a less than 2 weeks waiting time.

They are pretty popular where I come from. I drove a 2016 Superb around Ireland for 2 weeks in July. It's a great car but the steering is very wooden. It's much more of a Toyota than a Honda. It's very economical too. A full tank of diesel did more than 1,000km.

Whuahaha, very good one there dude!

It means in the morning while u are in a rush trying to get to work or something, you'll pray that the car doesnt throw u an engine fault or a check engine light/check anything warning as soon as the ignition is started

This post has been edited by Boy96: Nov 1 2016, 11:40 AM

I should add that having driven a 2016 Skoda Superb for 2 weeks, I'd rather drive my 2011 Honda Accord. The handling is much better on my Accord.

Like I said before, you can't say that all continental cars are this or all Asian cars are that. It just depends on the brand.

Is thee any difference in inside feel? Like conti cars more solid material and looks classy while Asian cars have the cheap toy material look?

This post has been edited by ic no 851025071234: Nov 1 2016, 03:40 PM

Again, it depends on the brand and the model. Not all Mercs are S classes and not all Hondas are Accords.

The Superb is a well built car but it's no S Class. It's similar to my Accord. It's nice and we'll built but it's not amazing.

of course lah bro

Damn.... no wonder i poor fag.... I never owned a conti car before

What cheap car u drive?

The old Lexus GS300 v6 (S190) is comparable to a mercedes e-class w211. There is a perfect mix of comfort and driving refinement, perhaps due to its rwd characteristics. plus its not expensive to maintain. -ve side is expensive roadtax and its not fuel efficient.

Havent tried the new generation GS L10

not conti lor

dont bring up my hurt heart matter anymore....

sorry to ask.. what is conti car?

So syiok this thread. I feel for a proper comparison, one needs to go to Europe and test the cars there, go to Japan, USA etc. Comparing prices here in Malaysia puts too many factors into the equation unrelated to the value of the car.
Interior quality may have been true 20 years ago, but getting into a 5 series from a Lexus GS feels like stepping into a cheaper car. As for desirability and fun, I have met many Europeans and Americans who rather have an LFA than a Ferrari, a Q60 than an M5, an MX5 than an Alfa. Then there are the standalone established heroes like the GTR, Impreza/Legacy/Outback, Evo etc.
In this day and age brands should be compared on their own. Country of origin may play some part in that brand's identity, but there may be more differences between two brands from one country than there is between two brands from 2 separate countries.

I think you might have better luck breaking cars down by nationality rather than continents. I think most people will agree that Proton and Toyota share very few qualities. BMW and TVR share equally as few.

Sorry to ask why u ask?

Conti or Continental car is a Malaysian terminology for cars made in Europe or US, don't ask me why coz I also have no clue as I'm not Malaysian!

Maybe he's not Malaysian like me so that's why he/she doesn't know like me back then!

u dun have to be such a jerk.. if u dun wanna reply, im ok.. no need to hurt other ppl feeling

i see.. now i get it.. thanks for the explanation

Mh... yeah. BMW isn't exactly the best in terms of quality... seems like they are just too much in demand for them to care too much. My Golf does feel posher than a F20 BMW (then again, in terms of fun...!).

The LFA is a very special car though. Yeah I'd absolutely take one over a Ferrari, but there are not many Japanese cars like that. Likewise the MX5, though if it is MX5 vs 4C... 4C it is.

The GT-R lacks reliability, so no thanks. And the WRX and EVO heroes seem to be living off their reputation these days...

I think it's a mixture of brand and country of origin... the Japanese do have things in common, and so do the Germans for example. All Germans have in common IMHO that they are built for high speed stints on the Autobahn... it shouldn't matter too much which one you get, they'll all perform well, while the Japanese tend to feel out of breath when you go faster.

As for the Skoda... they are relatively cheap, so there's only so much they can do. Also, VW isn't too happy when Skoda makes cars that are too good (AFAIK they even fired people at Skoda when reviewers found Skoda was better than VW... ). So Skoda has to be a bit careful.

U r sg porean?

Malaysian apply different standards for Japs and Contis. An example handling vs. rear space. Good handling cars use multi-link suspension for the back which reduce rear space. That's what Mazda 3 does but it gets hammered left and right for smaller rear space. When it comes to Conti cars like Ford Focus with also similar rear space no complaints, it just gets praised for handling. So when it comes to Jap cars Malaysians want space as a premium and handling second. With Conti cars they buy for handling so space is secondary. When Jap cars try the Conti formula they get bashed kaw kaw.

Nope.

Well not sure about the WRX (coz they're still produced) but Evo of course can only live off its legendary reputation as it's not made anymore. And btw it's one hell of a reputation too as it literally can still humiliate majority of new cars today even those so called fast sports cars ya, not to mention those wannabes like GTI etc2.

Sure ALL German cars can go fast/perform well in Autobahn meh??? Sure Japanese cars tend to feel out of breath also? Have you tried real powerful Japanese cars or not? Sure on average there are more powerful German cars than Japanese but not true for all ya.

literally, conti means 'continental europe' or 'continent' or 'mainland europe'

This post has been edited by patt_sue: Nov 2 2016, 06:09 PM

Yeah that's what I've suspected, so does it mean no cars made in Asia will be considered Conti cars? But then how about recent car brands from mainland China , shouldn't they also be called Conti cars as China is the main body of land in Asia continent? I honestly don't see the point of this Malaysian term of 'Continental car' coz within that category there are too many different brands from different origins with very different characteristics as well, why group it as 1 "Continental car"?

This post has been edited by 6UE5T: Nov 2 2016, 06:24 PM

https://www.reddit.com/r/singapore/comments...anmade_cars_as/

for malaysian, everything non-asian car is conti.... even ford...

As if Asia is not a continent itself!

forget about this guy la, talking from his arse 1...

to him, his renault kangoo is the best car, his golf in europe is the bestest of the bestest

The favorite conti car of Malaysians who want to act high class

Oops

Hahaha, it's ok, I know he tends to exaggerate often so I'm just trying to straighten the facts.

Same sentiment! Exactly what I thought of!

It's not about powerful. It's about a typical B segment hatchback with 90 hp having no problem doing 180 (if the engine can reach that speed), and feeling relatively planted at that, where a STOCK Japanese car of that segment won't be doing so well. They weren't designed for that, they were designed to be easy to drive through towns, with minimum effort.

I'm saying that most contis are capable of driving way beyond the speed limit (in terms of engine power any car is, but not in terms of handling etc.). My 75 hp Citroen Xsara, despite having a comfy setup, easily does 170 (downhill). I don't even need to hold the steering wheel, that's how planted it is. And no, no exaggeration. Through towns or when parking the Xsara takes a lot more effort, the power steering exists but is very weak, you need to work hard. Japanese cars are better in those situations.

Anyway, I consider Mazda more conti then Japanese in terms of feel etc., they may be 100% Japanese, but they are quite European in feel.

As for the Kangoo... no, it's not the best car, but it is vastly underrated and better than the Avanza, its main rival back in the day.

Oh man...what is going on here babbling about conti car stability doing 180kmh on the perfectly flat autobahn.

Our country more geng... Wira doing 200kmh on the wavy highway and all live to tell the tale. It's not the car, it's the driver.

you nailed it.

Didn't know u got 'hurt' so easily! Poor fellow! No need to cry.....come to daddy! Btw, jerking is quite common among male! Wwhahahahah ..........

i guess the main contributor for the hammering is because they compare it with the multi-linked Honda Civic. If Civic could provide a reasonable rear space, they cant see why Mazda cant. Anyhow both Honda and Mazda has different directions when making their cars. All boils down to preference.

See your your first post earlier and then next one above kinda contradict themselves. In your first post you mentioned that all German cars will do well in high speeds while Japanese will be out of breath, so it's implying that all German cars have good power for high speeds while Japanese don't as they run out of breath. But then in the first paragraph above you said it's not about power but about handling or more exact stability. So which one is it? If you want to say about stability then don't say Japanese cars will tend feel out of breath coz stability has nothing to do with out of breath (unless you have different English understanding of the term 'out of breath'). And even though I agree that smaller size Japanese or Korean cars tend to feel more unstable/floating at high speeds, I also emphasize again that not all Japanese cars will be out of breath or not stable at high speeds. See, you may have valid points in your posts but the way you mentioned them often not accurate, look exaggerated, and mislead people hence that's why some here already said you're just talking nonsense.

Four legs good, two legs bad!
Suddenly conti = German. French cars these days are completely different from Italians which in turn are completely different from Germans. Barely anyone brought up British cars and nobody even cared to mention the Russians and eastern block. If all lump together then might as well include Japan and Korea then all one big happy family.
Conclusion is belilah barangan buatan Malaysia!

New drinking game: Everytime someone mentioned double wishbone, everyone takes a shot.

Mine is a 2002 Xsara, and yeah, it still exists. Barely gets driven anymore, but it's fine. Currently it resides in Spain.

I suppose Peugeot expanded too fast, had bad SCs, couple of issues that weren't rectified swiftly and without fuzz by the SCs, so the brand got a bad rep.

And yeah, I think VW also made the same mistake, and they ruined their reputation. Now it doesn't matter anymore if the cars are good, if the problems are gone, if the SCs have been improved. The reputation is gone, and it will be very, very hard for them to get it back.

@djtong: Obviously every brand has a different focus... IMHO Peugeot is trying hard to copy VW, but with more flair, while Citroen is going their own completely bonkers ways. You can't even put all the French into one basket. However most European cars have a certain flair... a certain feeling. It may come in different ways, but there's something special about them. Obsessive attention to detail in VW and the desire to appeal to any driver, no matter what they want (even though that means compromises). Quirky out of the box thinking (Citroen). Driving pleasure (Ford). Quirky thinking + aspirations to be like VW (Peugeot). Aspirations to be like VW, but more comfortable and more stylish (Renault). And on and on.

British cars? Which British cars? There's Aston Martin, Jaguar, Rolls Royce and Bentley. Some smaller brands like Lotus too, sure. But nothing mainstream is left.

Russians? Terrible cars, and Russia isn't exactly part of Europe IMHO. They are doing their own thing.

You are joking. Perfectly flat? I wish it was. AFAIK it took them up to 80 years to replace the highways built in the 1930s.

I don't have the balls to drive 80 in a Rusa, but the same road in another car at 130? Sure. No problem. It IS the car. I drove the same road in my 2013 Golf, in a 2016 Peugeot 208 and an 2016 Opel Corsa. Did 210 in the Golf, no issues, not tiring. Did 180 in the Peugeot, no issues, a bit more tiring, but it's fine. Did 170 in the Opel, was absolutely exhausted when I got out of the car, and quite terrified while driving (unfortunately I was in a hurry, otherwise I would have driven much slower in that car). The Opel is IMHO designed as a city car first and foremost, and for driving around towns it is good. Really good. But don't drive fast in it.

Likewise I just think that most Japanese cars, because it isn't necessary for them to drive fast (it only really happens in Germany anyway), aren't good at it. Different priorities.

I meant out of breath in the sense that they are out of their comfort zone. Might have mixed something up, apologies. And yes, I am generalizing, and I am talking about mainstream cars. Performance cars are an entirely different story. I am also excluding Japanese (and Korean) cars designed for Europe. Those tend to behave much more like European cars. And Mazda.

You're spot on with the points you raised. If only the Europeans can dial up their reliability factor and find some way to reduce their parts pricing, they could actually be very enticing. Parts pricing can be reduced if manufactured in low cost countries but I doubt their strong unions would allow that.

People rarely deny that average European cars simply drive better than the average Japanese car. They have a better feel and are easily more connected to the road they are on. They just need to build in reliability and lower parts costs. Again, like you said, it is in the priorities of these European companies. Perhaps for this market in Malaysia, they need to do a lot more rather than just depend on their performance, ride, handling, safety. What most average Malaysians want is reliability and low cost of ownership then only comes performance, ride, handling et al. And, they want reliability without the hassle of going to source for these parts on their own. Many of my Peugeot owning friends need to buy parts from Singapore simply because of the lower taxes there which makes part pricing a little more acceptable. The Europeans already have build quality, driving dynamics and brand strength. They just need to up their game. Malaysians gave Peugeot and VW their chance and well, they blew it. Anything with a Prince engine or anything that says DSG are kept far away, further than a 10-foot pole. This can also be seen in their poor residuals and reluctance by used car dealers to take in these cars.

B and C segment cars are usually bought by those who may not have a second car and having a car that is off the road for weeks causes the owner unnecessary downtime. This downtime is perhaps ok with those who have a second car or have a company car but for many, that car is their source of income - getting to and fro work. It is worse if the owner is in a sales related business where the car must perform reliably at all times. Imagine the appointments missed, the cases lost etc. People want to buy European cars but the Europeans need to give people what they want and add in their own flair for design, performance and handling etc.

Malaysians generally want a reliable appliance to drive around but if that appliance also comes with great brand, history and good handling plus safety, why not? This perhaps explains why the Japanese brands always top our sales charts. They're simply just more reliable. Mercedes Benz is perhaps the only European brand that can build something that is reliable but can they do cars for the masses? I doubt they have that skill set. Perhaps they may have but then again, they would probably prefer to milk the rich of the country...more profitable. It is the mid range brands that seriously need to up their reliability and service experience if they want to have a strong shot at this market.

No, no, no...

Definitely the driver... Although I had no balls to be driving a stock Kancil at 140KMH but I have sat in one that did that speed before. It was scary shit but the driver dont think so.

IT HAS TO BE THE DRIVER.

Coming from someone who drives both.

European cars tend to have stiffer chassis and better judged damping and spring rates which gives better ride and handling. They also have more sound proofing and damping materials, so NVH are usually better. The engines usually turbocharged , which gives ample torque for overtaking. Their weakness is of course reliability and their R&D is more focus on performance and less focus on "what could go wrong and how do we make sure that it doesn't happen".
For example, they could have implemented some form of active cooling for the DSG gearbox to improve reliability but they didn't. A simple design say heatsink and fan that cost say usd150 to implement might have reduced the failure rate by half.

The only Japanese that drives like a European car is Mazda. Mazda drives more European like but the NVH is below Japanese. I think if Mazda had a turbo option, improve their NVH, we might have a Japanese that exceed European in all aspects.

What is nvh? Sounds like Mazda very good

Noise, Vibration, Harshness.

DSG rarely have issues related to heat, this issue hits the Ford Powershift DCTs. The DSG was designed in mind to have the efficiency of a manual with the advantage of quicker gear shifts compared to the normal torque converter automatics. In my opinion, what plagued the DSG was because of the focus on high speed efficiency and acceleration, which in the german home market, their autobahns' slow lane is at least 140km/h.

Their market don't really need to deal much with traffic jams, so they left that out in the equation of the initial DQ200 unit (i presume) and designed it to be maintenance free without the need to change transmission fluids. Generally fine in home market, but when introduced to outside market starting in China, all hell breaks loose after just a handful of years of ownership. The frequent 1 2 3 gear shifts in a heavy traffic situation wares out the mechatronic module and coupled with the fact that consumers don't really understand that the dry clutch DSG actually houses a pair of clutch which wears of like what a manual gearbox does, a lot of complains were raised from the cost of maintenance.

Hopefully, the DSG's starting from the new Jetta and upcoming passat can last longer as they incorporated improvements to reliability and also shifting behaviour to be less harsh on slow crawl situations. I can't confirm it, but it could be the newly improved 7 speed wet clutch unit.

All your stated points shall be fulfilled in the upcoming CX9. There are already a number of video reviews for this model.

This post has been edited by wkc5657: Nov 4 2016, 11:06 AM

Exactly, not to mention Malaysians also lump US cars into the so called 'Conti car' label. I really see no point in that, coz they are all still pretty different.
I remember the first time I knew about this terminology when a colleague of mine asked me what do I think about buying "Conti cars'. Then I asked her back, what car is that?? Then she explained (with a rather confused face coz she knew I like cars but how come I did not know Conti cars?) that it's European and US car brands. So then I said, which brand, coz they are different cars, even among German cars they are quite different so I say cannot generalize like that, coz for example I might consider buying Mercedes but certainly not VW even though both are German cars. IMHO this conti car term is just pointless.

Maybe shd just stick to our grandparents definition on this. Angmo car vs jipun car( milo tin) Don't think those days China/ Korea produced any car yet!

👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

But oi Lexus models and higher end Toyota models(i.e: Harrier, Prado, Cygnus) are not milo tin alright haha.

Infinity vs Lexus which 1 better?

Both are equally a level above the Nissan and Toyota brand so hard to say which is better lol. But in Malaysia, I don't think there is any authorised dealer or service centre for Infinity though(none in EM) so for ease of mind on parts and servicing, Lexus is the brand to go for if I'm to choose in between the two.

Exactly.

Though there are OEM parts that are significantly cheaper than original parts (which are expensive in Europe too!), but for some reason only Singaporean stockists seem to bring them in. No clue why. I used to get OEM parts for the Renault from Singapore. Original parts the savings weren't really worth bothering, might as well buy from the SC.

Reliability needs to improve, sure, though these modern cars need to be driven differently too. You can't drive them like these old cars. They are more sensible, but with proper care they should do well.

Btw., the latest results of the German TÜV results were released. German brands (especially Merc) seem to be as reliable as Japanese brands, but IMHO maybe it's just owners taking more care of their ride.

Balls of steel. Balls of steel. There are cars, where 140 feels like nothing at all, where you don't need to do much, and cars where you are on the edge because it requires a ton of input. IMHO it usually has a lot to do with the power steering too. If it is too strong at high speeds, you're in big trouble.

Singaporeans have it like this (if I'm mistaken, do advise accordingly ya): They buy cars expensive, way more expensive than us but have low to no tax for spare parts and that's why their parts are always cheaper. Ours is a trade off in the other way...

Infinity is under TC! Nissan family! So you are in Sabah or Sarawak ? No wonder all the models that you mentioned were 4wd!

You had forgotten Acura...there 3 makes are Asian (Japanese) equivalent to Continentals (European). American is another giant by itself.

I'm well aware that Infinity = Nissan and Lexus = Toyota for Europe which is why i stated "Nissan and Toyota" in the 1st place. Having said that this is not the case for Malaysia, since Nissan's authorized dealer which is TC officially doesn't carry Infinity models.

Also we have stand alone Lexus as authorized dealer for Lexus models.

My points are both Lexus and Infinity models are jipun made and are by all means no where close to 'milo tin' and in terms of offering spec, luxury and feature wise, both are a level above of what local Nissan and Toyota models can offer.

Why Lexus and infinity is Nissan and Toyota but they want make different company name? Is it to confuse people ? Don't they want expand their range of cars under same name and increase their status?

Must be something wrong with their cars they don't dare put same brand right?

well.... those who go for luxury cars when looking at toyota and Nissan... they will always assume is for the mid to high executives... generally their highest range of cars doesnt even come close to the luxuriousness of Merc or BMW... however by using a more premium name... they can easily create a new luxury identity for them... and also target different market range so that the luxury buyers wont get confused...

I guess individual perception varies, to me Lexus LS series are the equivalent for merc/bmw both in terms of comfort and performance.

The same goes to Infinity Q50/60 series, they are just superb!

The feel when sit inside same?

Might be biased, or yeah the German car owners take more care of their cars. The thing about reliability of Japanese cars like Toyota is that they can take quite abusive owners (those who forget or miss regular maintenance, drive more harshly, replace with cheaper non original parts etc2.) and the cars just keep going.


Yeah to me the high end Lexus is already about as luxurious as their German counterparts. I remember sitting in their first LS400 back in early 90s and that car IMHO is really on par with the Mercs S and BMW 7 series, maybe even more luxurious in some aspects (for example the full Nakamichi audio system back then). The insulation (NVH) was also mind blowing, it was so damn quiet and smooth that I would not notice if the engine was running unless I look at the tacho. Granted they may look more boring/lack character compared to Mercs/BMW but in term of luxury I think about the same already.

Q50 interior is better than F30 BMW 3 Series. Much more premium feel with loads of soft touch and leather wrapped all round. Handling more comfort like a C Class rather than the more sporty BMW and Audi.

It was started in the American market to combat the perception ppl have that Japanese cars are cheap and utilitarian. Even now, many in America don't know that Lexus is owned by Toyota. They're spoken of in completely different tones. Same goes for Infiniti. As for Acura, it is more a youthful brand over there so Honda sport cars like NSX and Integra plus their crossovers are sold under that name.
Afaik, Lexus and Infiniti are standalone in terms of the models, development and manufacture, whereas Acura are simply called Honda everywhere else.

As for that German Tüv test comparing German and Japanese cars, I think the keyword here is German. There is bound to be some bias. Also, as mentioned, people take much better care of their Merc than their Japanese runabout, yet the Japanese one is equally reliable, what does that tell you?

This post has been edited by djtong: Nov 4 2016, 04:24 PM

Dash design, material, fitment and user interface aside, sat in a Q50 before, the seats are a revelation...never knew that seats can be designed to be THAT good to sit on. I have sat in C Class, 5 series, E Class, Camry, Mazda 6 & CX5, but none is more memorable than the short moment i sat on the Q50.

Volvo is also famous for comfy seats, but no change to try it before....so maybe Volvo can match or beat it....

My observation is that Japanese cars may not boast the best performance, but the key to reliability is easy serviceability. It is much easier to reach a part in the engine bay of a Japanese compared to a German.

Germans engineering are no doubt good, really good performance, very intricate and complex, so when brake down, really need expert to handle it....also, their fancy of using so MANY sensors!!!! Sometimes, it is the sensor module or wiring that rosak instead of the part that is being measured itself

This post has been edited by wkc5657: Nov 4 2016, 05:05 PM

That exactly!

this.... way over engineered, good and bad... *actually some of the jepunis cars becoming more and more complex already.......

LOL ... I also saw and quickly snap ...

There's also Scion... or there was Scion at least. Anyway, a Toyota Avensis is pretty much like a conti, though the interior may lack a bit in style. Still, https://i.ytimg.com/vi/yxE2Mk3SFAU/maxresdefault.jpg is IMHO significantly nicer than the Uncle barge Camry. Likewise the Auris. Toyota has separate models for Europe, to match European tastes and demands (although the Auris and Altis dashboards are almost identical, apart from the outside air vents). Remember the Hyundai i40, running alongside the Sonata in Malaysia? The i40 is for Europe, the Sonata for Asia/US.

IMHO those luxury brands from Japanese manufacturers aren't meant for Europe. You rarely see a Lexus in Germany, and even fewer Infiniti (they only started sales a few years ago?). No Acura at all. The NSX is a Honda.

Not sure if Japanese cars can take the abuse. Servicing intervals are shortest for Japanese cars in Germany. Like, a Honda may have to be sent for service every 15k, while VW is 30k and Renault, Fiat etc. is 35k. Oh yeah, guess which cars do well in the statistics and which ones don't. Dacia btw. does terrible... I guess because those cars are very, very cheap, and the cars are abused. People who spend very, very little on their car tend to spend even less on keeping it running in perfect condition. I can also imagine that people who buy Japanese cars do so because they want reliability. What other reason is there to buy a Toyota? So they may take more care of their cars.

My Golf is asking me to send it to VW for inspection... no oil change, just let them have a look at the car to check if everything is ok. I think that is important for it to work reliably, oil doesn't need to be changed so often, but it's necessary to check for upcoming issues before they get problematic and perhaps cause a breakdown (plus a much higher bill).

The TÜV test examines every car on German roads, every 2 years. If you don't pass, the car needs to be fixed, and tested again. Until it passes, it isn't road legal. The testers should be impartial.

Oh, and a German pro-VW car magazine regularly tests new cars... they buy them, drive them for 100k km or more, then take them apart to see the condition (and of course they keep track of what went wrong with the car in the meantime). The first-gen Touran did extremely bad, so bad that their cover image was of a tent in front of a VW dealership. The most reliable car they have ever tested was a Toyota Prius. Other Toyota models didn't fare so well... just somewhere middle of the road, but Mazda does very, very well (sadly the ones before they got so stylish... no idea if the new models are as good).

@wkc5657: Multiple European brands offer different seats for their cars... VW has 3 different seats for the Golf for example. Regular, sports (they are rather comfy IMHO, just a bit body hugging), and some luxury seats with electric adjustment in 14 different ways. Those are supposed to be super ergonomic, and I believe they even have a massage function. Never been able to try those though. One thing I had to notice about seats... seats that seem extremely comfortable at first don't have to be when you drive for many hours, and vice versa. The Golf sports seats are good after many hours of driving, even though they seem rather normal at first. The seats in my Xsara are really comfortable at first, but I do get some backache after a couple of hours.

I think one thing that may set Europeans and Japanese a bit apart is attention to detail. Head units in mainstream Japanese cars often enough seem tacked on... seem aftermarket. European brands do a better job of integrating it into the design, of making it part of the actual car design. Makes it much harder to replace with aftermarket units, but it looks very nice. In the Golf there is a small ridge molded into the plastic next to the rear seats. The purpose is to keep the seatbelts at the side when you fold the seats... when you put back the seats, the seatbelts are where they are supposed to be. The door bins are lined with felt, so when you put stuff there it doesn't rattle around. There's an almost obscene amount of thought in the smallest items, and that feels special.

Japanese also over-engineer things... but with different goals. The Prius is such a car IMHO, the hybrid drive train is extremely well designed, with lots of tolerances built in to ensure reliability. Unlike the Germans they have realized that reputation is everything, especially for new technology. The first gen Hybrid absolutely had to be reliable, otherwise the technology may be rejected by customers forever. Just look at VW. DSG is a good idea, but at this point it doesn't matter anymore if the latest gen is reliable or not, people will just reject it.

Bro...this is Not true. Most probability you never own a merz or bmw....totally Not true.
Q50/60 same merz bmw ?
Perception ? Omg
Cheers

Bro..totally agree
Cheers

That is his perception, there is no right or wrong.

In fact even the new honda civic, I'm willing to bet that honda purposely lowered the torque rating so that the CVT gearbox will last longer. Take VW for eg, 250nm rated torque for the 7 speed dsg gearbox, and guess what is the engine rated at, Yes exactly 250nm. No allowances, no buffer at all for manufacturing variances.

I think if you take toyota engineers to work on the DSG gearbox and improve it. I'm pretty sure they'll make it reliable in 1 generation.


This post has been edited by Drian: Nov 5 2016, 10:10 PM

Honda and Toyota too mainstream. Even drive accord and Camry don't feel the class

Haha, probably. I'm not too confident with that either, luckily my Golf has a manual gearbox. Worry free, fun and pretty much as easy to drive as an auto.

Thing is, Toyota already has their e-CVT which is CVT only in function... it has nothing to do with the rubber band used by others. It's a brilliant system, boring to drive perhaps, but brilliant engineering and super reliable. They completely rethought the gearbox to do their hybrid, rather than take an ordinary one and attach an electric motor. No clutch, the cogs are always connected.

Well actually Camry & Accord are supposed to be just ordinary level family cars and not meant to be cars with class in the first place! Only in countries like Malaysia, SG, Indonesia, etc2 where cars are priced exorbitantly then people expect them to have class!

I do miss those understated Lexus of before though. Nowadays they look to much like some Gundam/Decepticon. I guess previously their design did not differ from Japanese models whereas these days different markets get different design.
Currently Audi seems to be champion at understated luxury, but reliability and resale are zero. Merc is nice outside but too many flashing lights inside. BMW catering to their main clientele of road bullies at the cost of everyone else (I guess Rolls is their real luxury brand). Volvo running out of ideas whereas everyone else has caught up with safety. Jaguar losing out to Bentley.
Too bad Cadillac and Lincoln all not brought in here, I feel our roads and driving style has alot in common with America.