Timely reminder there. So assuming I didn't quite missed the boat and currently has 16% IRR for this fund. What's your recommendation, hold or sell? USD n SGD inching higher
Selling a reasonably healthy fund seems to be counter intuitive to me

1. The RHB ATR feeds into the SGD class
2. I think he was talking about the gains in 2014-2015 mainly came from forex gains against SGD, and USD (RMB loosely pegged to USD); hence why missed the boat if you try to buy it in 2016.
As a result, the investment horizon may not be so critical here

The United Asian Bond (SGD) class returns as attached


The longer term annualised return is still about 6%-8%. Not too bad, but not what you would get in 2015

p/s: Merely translating techie greek-like language into layman terms Could have done it completely wrong though

Wow... The boss of credit ninja has spoken

I've not even refined my skills on the basic credit ninja yet, did more steps than necessary and took up precious days. It's ok la, precious lessons learned

I have no intention of following that though, requires way too many bond funds including some pretty useless ones like RHB money market or CIMB-principal bond fund and very inefficient portfolio for my way of buy and do nothing strategy

But TQ for sharing, really eye opener

Bean counter's type geeky topic. Let me try to answer that

Previously something like this was discussed in the PRS thread on those PRS funds that feed into existing UTF

So for Global leaders, similarly the management fees was charged by the M&G fund as reflected in NAV daily, the management fee would then be refunded to EI Global Leaders and it is netted off against the management fee charged by EI Global Leaders. As a result the MER would look ridiculously low, but you obviously still pay management fee la, fund managers don't work for free

Excerpt from the accounts


CIMB GTF however, I have no explanation for why the MER is so high. Perhaps someone should write to them to demand for an explanation
*that person is not me*

Well, I'm quite sure I won't do it although I do have some money in CMF to make it worth my while
But I've accumulated some credits so far and haven't even use them yet

Anyway, for discussion sake which low risk balanced fund would you go for at this point? Market quite volatile wei, all the RHB local funds don't know will go down further or not; ringgit is quite weak at the moment, if ringgit strengthen foreign funds like RHB Asian Income fund may lose money... it does take about a week for the whole process to go through

And tips to those who plan to do it, don't buy the following funds as there's no FI fund for intra switch:
- RHB Smart series funds
- Aberdeen funds
Boss any other fund house to add?

p/s: I'm so sure FSM would read this but just smile instead of doing anything about it, best customer retaining tool ever. With hundred of thousands of credit points don't think they would go anywhere else

This kind of wishy washy answer....

The conventional Hwang Select income fund is no longer available for purchase on FSM as mentioned few pages ago, the shariah equivalent - Affin Hwang AIIMAN Select Income Fund still can buy it seems

On RHB intra switching, switching out or into RHB Money Market fund does not attract RM25 switching fee and at the same time can use credit. Tips from our resident credit ninja master

Actually something I suggested last time that you have not considered is - Injecting new capital. Is that not an option?
Anyway, I think pink boss does his 12 months rolling returns to consider current CAGR instead of keep going back to the dark times and not see any improvements in the IRR. Perhaps you can do that too
But the KEY is, you need to normalise your portfolio. Decide on your asset allocation for the long term, and plan how would you rebalance to that position within the next 3-6 months. Holding on to the bunch of MY smallcap funds is not a sensible mid-long term plan

You know what, what you suggested is not what uncle looi asked for. It's just what you wanted desperately for people to endorse. The only way to know if it works is for YOU to go test it out and report back.

As a responsible forumer I must however highlight that even guy3288 seems to think luck is on his side when he does it, and our precious metal guy also did not encourage people to follow his method although he has an IRR of 70+%

I like this 2 methods particularly, it's easier for a haphazard person like me. Methododical is not quite for me.

I have quite a few funds with >21% returns after 3 years, but I'm not selling them since they are moving in the right direction. One of it is the latest darling in this thread, RHB Asian Income fund that I have for >3 years and IRR is 10+%

MY smallcap - If you read the recent article by FSM, there is liquidity risk and therefore it is recommended for it to form no more than 20% of overall portfolio. I believe uncle looi is holding way above that and hence reminded him to reconsider asset allocation.
Of course, this don't apply to people who think gambler's style is better than asset allocation method

Ponzi 1 vs Ponzi 2 - as T231H pointed out, the 2 funds invest in fairly different markets and are not so correlated. Ponzi 2 did very well in 2013-first half 2015 but is heading downhill lately while ponzi 1 is on uptrend this year. So no right or wrong answer. I have both.
Just that I have a bunch of Asia ex JP fund and ponzi 1 is less correlated to them while ponzi 2 is highly correlated to them.
Risk rating sometimes don't mean a lot. REITs fund is another good example. ponzi 1's volatility is fairly low even compared to large cap asia pac funds like AmAsia equity income or EI Asia pac fund

Good luck is all I can say lor
Capital injection I'd do using RSP method lor, right or wrong also would be averaged out, won't be highest or lowest

Hopefully some day you realise he's not kacau-ing you but instead putting money in your pocket.... I couldn't be bothered jor, waste saliva

Sounds like broken record - ASB is not syariah compliant, bumis who are non-muslims also can buy
Anyway, dividend is not exactly assured la, just constructive obligation due to past performance and it's the people's expectations. It's quite different from EPF Act minimum 2.5% guaranteed returns
Btw, most people who put in ASM/ASW don't touch their money one, cos fear of once sold difficult to buy back... so we are talking about 20 years horizon instead of <5 in most instances for non-bumis

Err... If Asnita is grandma then RHB Asian Income is aunty lor, semi boring-ish returns
You don't want to try out ponzi 1.0 meh?

How can I not join in ASx related discussion
Well, I'm just re-iterating what I said in the past

This is very much a 'national interest' product; from many angles, so yes, chances are it will remain status quo for a while.
If you look at the total NAV of the FP funds, it's >10% of KLSE market cap... hence the national interest
As for the rakyat, better some savings at a higher return than nothing right....? world bank issued a report on how many Malaysians have no savings, but BNM rebutted that it has not taken ASB into consideration. That's how important ASB is to the nation

But yes, all in all, this is a crutches for both the rakyat and the market. It's probably appropriate 20-30 years back since it brings up savings and hold the market stable. But because of the crutches until today the rakyat cannot walk unassisted (aka invest their money and understand non-capital guaranteed products), the market cannot withstand the volatility

It is however a very personal choice, I don't think we can force people to change their mindset and take out their 6 digits savings from the FP funds that they have not touched over the last 20 years. All we can do is ride on the stability the institution investors provided and gain from it

Wah boss..... later the newbies don't understand your sarcasm

Post la your IRR as comparison

Aiya, no need so complicated la, for fixed priced funds distribution = annual returns la; although strictly speaking effective rate would be lower if capital was added during the year since the calculation of the dividend is based on some lowest amount of the month or something

Anyway, bean counter geeky talk below
The dividends declared is out of realised profits. The equities held by the fixed priced funds are not marked to market like EPF or Tabung Haji, although they do impairment on some of those really hopeless stocks like FGV acquired during IPO

So the "reserves" built up over the year from the increase in share price of the counters held may or may not be there anymore depending on how well the counters are doing. But you see, liquidity is not an issue since everytime someone sells the fund others would be queueing to pick it up regardless of it underlying asset value. What a perfect scheme

Actually unit trust is considered passive, active is those trading equities and derivatives directly
And why shouldn't retiree, housewives and layman learn about managing their own investments? In the 90s when shares boom they have no issue talking about which share to chase
And these days the taxi drivers and wet market vege sellers also property investment experts can talk this n that project.
Just because the crutch exists people won't want to learn how to walk without it. That, to me is the biggest problem in this country

Erm.... why do you think it's timing issue? I also started in 2013... ok ma at the moment, of course you don't talk about feb'16, that time teruk la, IRR worse than FD board rate

Data entry got problem. Are you willing to bare all then it's easier to troubleshoot, just expand all lines

Amount should be the current value of your fund, so the amount you got there is wrong. If you keyed in the FSM code of the fund, then you can use the radio button "update current fund" at the bottom and it would be automatically pull the unit price of the fund for you

For entrance value; you need to check that your grey subtotal lines are listed as 1 in column A

RHB AIF is a balanced fund, it's only normal that when EQ is doing well the one with FI element would not do as well as the pure EQ funds, but it's a great stabiliser when market is volatile

The table above is 9 months old, but I don't think it would be very different now; should still be in the range of 0.6-0.7

This post has been edited by dasecret: Sep 29 2016, 02:42 PM

0.87 is USD correlation? the one posted back in Dec'15 is in MYR terms and probably more relevant to us. We had this disccussion 2 versions back I think

Even GTF and AIF is considered highly correlated when I scan it using the Morningstar free account USD terms correlation

See the pdf document on top. The correlation table is inside the pdf document
Anyway this table not generated by me. The one from free Morningstar account is in USD terms and will show 0.8x

I'm responding to you not because I feel the need to argue with you, but I do not want this meaningless argument to take over this board and we are unable to move on to more meaningful discussion. Why do I say it's meaningless? Simple. You are only looking at investing into 1 single fund. Then of course your example is mathematically correct, there's no disputing that.

But wait, is our life ever so simplistic? At least mine is not

Here I'll give an example using our MY small cap market crash 1month+ ago. So uncle Looi bought into RHB Small Cap Opp right before it crashes (ouch, sorry, but it's a good comparison), and say you bought into it after the crash, so you are better off than uncle Looi by 10% like your example. And then here I am, buying into EI small cap instead, it only fell by 4%. So Am I worse off than you? Let the graph do the talking now



Everything else equal, uncle looi would still be -8%; while you are better off at +2%; and I'm at +3%. So are you the smartest of the bunch now? Actually I don't know the answer as it's less than 2 month; lets take a look again 6 months later then it would be more meaningful

But the truth is, would you be buying at the lowest point? Or somewhere when it's still falling, or only when it rose back to normal.... no one really knows. Not something we can have 100% control over.
Hence what we advocate to do is, control what you can; in this case - buy the fund that has a better risk to return ratio and have good track record; and VCA or DCA to not be in the worst situation, somewhere in between is good enough since we cannot catch the lowest point most of the time.

Don't be intimidated by the loudest voice in the room. Once a wise man told me that tin kosong make the most noise. You can always throw in idea and if you are right you help others, if you are not and being corrected you'd learn something. Don't just be a silent reader

Actually I did not, I even acknowledged that mathematically when you look at ONE fund what you argued is technically correct.

But instead of just looking at that one tiny sand, even though that one sand is pricking your eye and irritated you so much, I asked you to step back and look at the bigger picture.

Let me try again, and hopefully we can move on after this.

what I was trying to say is, say everyone has rm10k to put into 1 fund. Do you just buy into the fund that ur friend bought at a price that is 10% higher? Or do you consider other factors? Of course any sensible person will tell you they will consider other factors, to try to buy into a fund that they think got better chance of making more money in the future, and hopefully not lose so much in the process

So why are you still fixated about buying the fund that you can buy at a lower price? Fell 10% may not be as good as another fund that only fell 4% as I illustrated earlier. There are more than 1 fund or 1 counter to buy. Talking about just 1 fund is meaningless in the grand scheme of things

Ok. Let say if I want to be really nice about this. What you are trying to explain is what the fancy finance people call value cost averaging where investors are advised to buy more of the fund when the price fall below certain point (not due to distribution). And it's a more than acceptable way of investing. But the way you explained obviously did not make it easy for ppl to understand

Wah boss, the most meaningful comment the whole day
How do you deal with those who are stubborn to prove that they are right and would not look at things from a different perspective even when they were told to do so?

This post has been edited by dasecret: Oct 3 2016, 05:47 PM

Let me guess, public mutual agents? PM bond funds returns lose to FD one... how to sell

Besides, bond fund close to zero commission

Once on cari chinese forum an agent tell me off, say it's a disservice to the clients to sell them bond fund because of the lacklustre returns. Ahem, the problem is why the bond fund return so little right? Not because your bond fund sucks so you ask client to take more risk than they are supposed/ready to