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 Venturing into Agriculture & Aquaculture, Co-Ordination & Implementation is KEY

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MrFarmer
post Oct 11 2011, 12:18 PM

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QUOTE(Michael J. @ Oct 11 2011, 08:26 AM)
Mr Farmer:

It's ok. I've not had the chance to look at the photos yet anyway.

From what you have described, you are doing everything by the book, so nothing to fear. You are really very well informed and well prepared.

Now that you've mentioned yellow patches and predation holes on the leaves and between leaf veins, then I can tell you that you are not dealing with a sap sucking insect like aphids or leafhoppers. You should be looking at tissue consuming ones, like night flying beetles, potato leaf beetles, or even grasshoppers. To confirm this, you need to observe the bite holes for clearly defined edges, could be slightly serrated. If it is not well defined, and excessively smooth, then it could leaf blight/spot or soft rot. You might like to read the attached document as guidance:

http://www.seedalliance.org/uploads/pdf/SpinachDiseases.pdf

If you have identified that it is none of the above, then it would be insect predation. From the feeding pattern (i.e. between leaf veins, serrated edges), it is likely night flying beetles, Apogonia. Check for blackish-brown frass (insect poop) on the underside of the leaves or surrounding leaves. If you find those, then you are most likely having those feeding on your bayams. Other possible pest could be slugs and snails.

I can't give you a definite answer just yet as I'm away from my computer. This computer I'm using now kind of sucks.

Dimethoate, like I said previously, is actually a contact poison, meaning it kills upon contact with the insect via absorbtion through the insect breathing pores. It can act as a systemic, but that is only because the poison is absorbed by the plant itself, making the plant poisonous. BTW, systemic does not necessarily mean slow; it only defines the mode of delivering the poison. Systemic poisons are meant to be delivered into the "body" or "system" of the targeted organism and kill them from inside. Contact poisons are meant to cause death upon touch or inhalation (by killing lung cells leading to suffocation). Think of systemic poisons as lethal injections, and contact poisons as electric chairs.

Personally, I really wouldn't use dimethoate because of the very high risks involved (it has been known to attack human nervous system, leading to symptoms similar to Parkinson's Disease or stroke). Instead, I would use cypermethrin; although it is also dangerous, the risks are less compared to dimethoate.
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I think could be predation insects. Had checked, no snail, no slugs, no insects during day time, but found some poop/excretion here and there.
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Also there seems to be some "silk" threads on the bitten holes.
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laugh.gif Think of systemic poisons as lethal injections, and contact poisons as electric chairs.
Shall look into cypermethrin, as I would no want my helpers or I to end up having a stroke or Parkinson's Disease.
Michael J.
post Oct 11 2011, 12:38 PM

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Mr Farmer:

Hmm... Sorry again, can't see the pictures. BUt if you have found the frass, then you likely have Apogonia. You can do two approach, one cultural, the other chemical.

Culture:
1. Keep the grass short. Apogonia breed amongst grass, and the larvae feed on grass roots. By keeping the grass short, you deprive the adults of breeding grounds, and expose larvae to predators.

2. Use biological controls like Bt spores or powder. Dipel is an example, but again, like all eco-friendly options, it is more expensive.

Chemical:
1. Cypermethrin is so far the best control for beetles of any kind. It works both as a deterrant, and as a contact kill. But you need to modify your spraying to early morning, or late evening.
MrFarmer
post Oct 11 2011, 12:58 PM

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Castor, while doing some research on Castor plant and seeds:
It's listed as The World’s Most Poisonous Plant.
http://scienceray.com/biology/the-worlds-m...oisonous-plant/

"India, Brazil and China are the major crop producers and the workers often suffer many harmful side effects from working with these plants. India is a leading producer and political problems in that country further threaten an already unstable castor supply.

As a result of these issues the supply of castor is unsteady and price fluctuations are extreme. Yet even with these problems the chemical industry uses an average of 600-800 million lbs. of oil each year. This is a true testament to the value of castor oil."
http://www.linnaeus.net/problem_with_castor.htm

No wonder the spot price (10th Oct) is about RM$ 2,718.58 /ton in India
Michael J.
post Oct 11 2011, 02:20 PM

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Translate that into metric, and it doesn't look as wonderful.

600-800 million lbs. = 272,300 - 363,200 metric tons

If we really want to compare prices, coconut oil is valued around USD$1,400 per metric ton againt palm oil USD$950 (RM4,200 vs RM2,850) and yet we don't see coconut oil gaining much "value" in a commercial sense.

Heck, gold is valued at around USD$1,800 but palladium is priced almost 3 times as much, and doesn't fluctuate as wildly. Yet most people are only familar with gold.

The thing about industry is this: Nothing is indispensable. As long as the cost of purchasing the raw material is cheaper compared to the costs and opportunity loss involved with overhauling the factory machinery and setup, retraining workers, material testing etc., industry will still use that same raw material. If no expensive changes are required, then industry will more often opt for the cheaper substitute.

Case in point: Cocoa butter vs Cocoa-butter substitute (a.k.a palm oil). Cocoa butter is by far and large a more superior material compared to CBS. However, because CBS is much cheaper to source, more abundant, and only requires very minor modification to the manufacturing process and chemistry, cocoa butter has been largely substituted from many manufactured goods, including cosmetics, pharmaceuticals, food products, industrial waxes etc.

Just my observation and thoughts anyway.


Added on October 12, 2011, 11:57 pmMr Farmer:

I've managed to view the pics, and you've got Apogonia, and maybe a mild case of bagworms. Do look into cyper as a chemical control.

This post has been edited by Michael J.: Oct 12 2011, 11:57 PM
MrFarmer
post Oct 13 2011, 08:52 PM

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Added on October 12, 2011, 11:57 pmMr Farmer:

I've managed to view the pics, and you've got Apogonia, and maybe a mild case of bagworms. Do look into cyper as a chemical control.
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[/quote]
Thank a lot Micheal. Shall look into Cypermethrin.

Got some problems with our eggplants. Some of these died after being transplanted (fine initially). This is happening to me and my neighbors.
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These plants died off from the stems (root side). The stem gets woody (harden) and leaves dried off. I pull off one that is almost dead, the root looks ok, but the stem looks rotten, scrap off the decaying matter, it expose the stem that had turned woody.

Are we looking at rotten roots (poor drainage), infection (roots disease) or fertilizer too close to the stem?
Michael J.
post Oct 13 2011, 11:10 PM

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Mr Farmer:

Looks like you've got phytophtora root wilt, aka damping off. It has to do with high soil wetness (not just damp, but soaking wet), allowing phytophtora to proliferate. Nothing much can do, except cultural control, i.e. raised beds, drainage etc., and crop rotation. Or, you could try using fungicides like Benlate (active ingredient benomyl) before you do your planting. I wouldn't normally advice doing prophylactic spraying of fungicides, but it does help. Just alternate between benlate, and something else, like Kencozeb or Mancozeb.

You might want to avoid plants from the nightshade family, including eggplants, chilies, tomatoes etc. Legumes should be alright. But keep nightshade family crops out for at least 1 year before attempting to plant again.
MrFarmer
post Oct 14 2011, 06:35 PM

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QUOTE(Michael J. @ Oct 13 2011, 11:10 PM)
Mr Farmer:

Looks like you've got phytophtora root wilt, aka damping off. It has to do with high soil wetness (not just damp, but soaking wet), allowing phytophtora to proliferate. Nothing much can do, except cultural control, i.e. raised beds, drainage etc., and crop rotation. Or, you could try using fungicides like Benlate (active ingredient benomyl) before you do your planting. I wouldn't normally advice doing prophylactic spraying of fungicides, but it does help. Just alternate between benlate, and something else, like Kencozeb or Mancozeb.

You might want to avoid plants from the nightshade family, including eggplants, chilies, tomatoes etc. Legumes should be alright. But keep nightshade family crops out for at least 1 year before attempting to plant again.
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cry.gif Looks like me got a serious problem here.
Do you think by extracting the affected plants, burn it off. Dig up a hole on the affected spot, spread the soil and let it dry under the hot sun for a couple of days (hi UV). Then maybe spray the area with Hydrogen Peroxide (Clorox) 10 ~ 20% concentration. Will this help? As we are having this in isolated spot here & there, not the whole farm

Shall look into the fungicides.

Thanks Micheal
MrFarmer
post Oct 16 2011, 01:48 PM

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Serai (Lemon Grass)
Went to the market today to try to sell my Serai. There were no takers. Was told that our Serai is too small / skinny. If I understand correctly, there are 2 types of Serai, 1 for cooking, another for making oil? Cooking type is small while the oil type is large?

Or are my Serai too skinny? How to fatten it up? blush.gif

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Michael J.
post Oct 17 2011, 08:40 AM

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Mr. Farmer:

Hydrogen peroxide is a normal treatment for disinfecting farm tools. You could try your method, but maybe only after you have harvested the crop, and some time ahead of planting your next crop.

As for serai, yes, there are a few types. The two most common ones are the serai wangi, and serai pagar (or pasar, or biasa). Serai wangi is the one with the most essential oil content, while the normal serai is usually used for cooking. The essential oil from serai has been known to cause gastric discomfort in some people when consumed.

Again, can't see the pictures, but as with most grass family, you might like to look at nitrogen and phosphorus content, lesser extent carbon. Grasses are high energy users, and in order to allow for this energy uptake and conversion, freely available phosphorus in the soil is critical. Unfortunately, phosphorus is usually locked in mineral form, while free phosphorus tends to escape quite easily. You might need to source this from compound fertilizers, as I believe it isn't as easy to get phosphorus mineral fertilizers nowadays, since it is a component in weaponized aerosol bombs.


Added on October 17, 2011, 8:34 pmBro, I see nothing wrong with your serai lar. At least over here, they look normal.

Maybe you should try looking for serai wangi to plant instead. See what the locals prefer.

This post has been edited by Michael J.: Oct 17 2011, 08:34 PM
MrFarmer
post Oct 18 2011, 12:59 PM

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Added on October 17, 2011, 8:34 pmBro, I see nothing wrong with your serai lar. At least over here, they look normal.

Maybe you should try looking for serai wangi to plant instead. See what the locals prefer.
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[/quote]
Yes, it looks "normal" to me too. Shall try see if we can fatten it up a bit, as replanting takes some time, let alone have to source for Serai Wangi.

Cash Crops for Rubber plantation.
Was visiting a rubber plantation the other day and notice the vast land available in-between the terrace. Am think of a crop to plant. Needs to be drought resistance (hi slope, hi hill, only dependent on rain water), low maintenance, short/mid term, reasonable commercial value, ease of harvest (whereby we can have time to harvest in bulk, unlike banana need to harvest when ripe, otherwise it's over ripped, as the said land is quite a distant from town).
Traditionally had been planting Banana.
Was thinking crops like Serai, Groundnut, Sweet potato. Otherwise may continue with Banana tongue.gif
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Michael J.
post Oct 18 2011, 02:28 PM

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Mr Farmer:

Hahaha.... Banana by far is easier. You don't have to harvest banana when it begins to ripen, unless you have a thing against using carbide or ripe apples to speed up ripening of green bunches lar. Only that with hilly land, the yield potential drops quite a lot.

However, isn't the light intensity of rubber inter-rows (even on terraces) very low? Or do you mean something else?
MrFarmer
post Oct 18 2011, 07:33 PM

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QUOTE(Michael J. @ Oct 18 2011, 02:28 PM)
Mr Farmer:

Hahaha.... Banana by far is easier. You don't have to harvest banana when it begins to ripen, unless you have a thing against using carbide or ripe apples to speed up ripening of green bunches lar. Only that with hilly land, the yield potential drops quite a lot.

However, isn't the light intensity of rubber inter-rows (even on terraces) very low? Or do you mean something else?
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blush.gif Haha, no , got nothing against carbide. Had actually bought some, but need to experiment on the usage (never used it before). With carbide, guess we can kind of harvest "more" and reduce the collection trips to make it more feasible.

No too worried about the light intensity, as the rubber tress are only between 6 ~ 9 months old, and I guess we should have 2 ~ 2 1/2 years to go. As for the banana trees, it's not blocking (light intensity) the rubber trees as we trim and transplant the sucklings quite regularly. Also moving to higher value Bananas, like Pisang Emas, Berangan and some Cavendish.

As the area is quite large, and we are trying to maximize the sloppy area, was thinking of what other crops that we can go for. All suggestion are welcomed notworthy.gif
MrFarmer
post Oct 19 2011, 12:58 PM

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[quote=MrFarmer,Oct 18 2011, 12:59 PM]

Added on October 17, 2011, 8:34 pmBro, I see nothing wrong with your serai lar. At least over here, they look normal.

Maybe you should try looking for serai wangi to plant instead. See what the locals prefer.
*

[/quote]
Yes, it looks "normal" to me too. Shall try see if we can fatten it up a bit, as replanting takes some time, let alone have to source for Serai Wangi.

Cash Crops for Rubber plantation.
Was visiting a rubber plantation the other day and notice the vast land available in-between the terrace. Am think of a crop to plant. Needs to be drought resistance (hi slope, hi hill, only dependent on rain water), low maintenance, short/mid term, reasonable commercial value, ease of harvest (whereby we can have time to harvest in bulk, unlike banana need to harvest when ripe, otherwise it's over ripped, as the said land is quite a distant from town).
Traditionally had been planting Banana.
Was thinking crops like Serai, Groundnut, Sweet potato. Otherwise may continue with Banana tongue.gif
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[/quote]
hmm.gif Maybe Groundnuts fits the bill?
Groundnuts
Climatic conditions, soil and water management
Groundnuts are grown in the warm tropics and subtropics below 1500 m above sea level, and in temperate humid regions with sufficiently long warm summers. Optimum mean daily temperature to grow is 30°C and growth ceases at 15°C. Cool temperatures delay flowering. Groundnuts cannot stand frost. Between 500 and 600 mm of water reasonably well distributed through the growing season allows a good production. Nevertheless, groundnuts are a drought-tolerant species and can withstand severe lack of water, but yield is generally reduced. If harvesting conditions are wet, aflatoxins (severe poison produced by some fungi such as Aspergillus spp.) may develop on the nuts. Aflatoxin contamination is a major hazard to human and animal health.
Because pods develop underground and must be recovered at harvest, crumbly, well-drained soils are preferred, but plants grow and develop adequately on heavier clay soils. For optimum growth, soil pH should be in the range 5.5 to 6.5, though Spanish types tolerate more acid conditions (pH 4.5) and some cultivars grow well in alkaline soils up to pH 8.5.
Worthwhile to do a test run?
Michael J.
post Oct 19 2011, 02:29 PM

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Mr Farmer:

Before you go into Cavendish, please get more information on the crop. As I know, for export purposes, Cavendish need chill room treatment. And fingers ripen at different rates, very uneven. Prices are good though, at about RM5 for 5 fingers in many retail outlets.

Bro, groundnuts need sandier soils. Bris series soils are suitable. You could try planting, no harm trying.

The reason I recommended banana is because it generates more income compared to other crops without the need for much value adding. If you're not too particular, you could try planting legumes, like Azuki or mung beans. They can help in nitrogen fixing, i.e. add nitrogen from air into soil, so it might be a good choice. Returns are not great though, about RM1,635 per acre if yields are around 15 cwt/acre. Some Australian growers I know actually intercrop mung beans or peas with corn, both to add nutrient to the soil, and also as a secondary crop to corn since the beans or peas are climbers.
teteret
post Oct 20 2011, 10:04 AM

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[
Added on October 7, 2011, 10:01 pm
Just planted about 30 plant-lets. Hope they all grow well. See you in six year's time. tongue.gif
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[/quote]

Haha bro you should plant more than 30. Btw which species did u plant? While not native to Malaysia i believe u can get Crassna variety from sellers. The trees will be ready for inoculation in 2-3 years. But i recommend that u wait a further 2 to 3 years after inoculation before harvesting to get better results.

MrFarmer
post Oct 20 2011, 07:43 PM

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[quote=teteret,Oct 20 2011, 10:04 AM]
[
Added on October 7, 2011, 10:01 pm
Just planted about 30 plant-lets. Hope they all grow well. See you in six year's time. tongue.gif
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[/quote]

Haha bro you should plant more than 30. Btw which species did u plant? While not native to Malaysia i believe u can get Crassna variety from sellers. The trees will be ready for inoculation in 2-3 years. But i recommend that u wait a further 2 to 3 years after inoculation before harvesting to get better results.
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[/quote]
blush.gif don't know what species wor. These were given to me. Shall get some pictures, maybe you can help me identify? I still have about 50 more, and am still looking for empty space to plant. Say how difficult to inoculate & harvest? Maybe I can plant these at the sloppy gradient (steep) land, since we don't need to visit it much. What says you? hmm.gif
MrFarmer
post Oct 24 2011, 09:29 PM

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[quote=teteret,Oct 20 2011, 10:04 AM]
[
Added on October 7, 2011, 10:01 pm
Just planted about 30 plant-lets. Hope they all grow well. See you in six year's time. tongue.gif
*

[/quote]

Haha bro you should plant more than 30. Btw which species did u plant? While not native to Malaysia i believe u can get Crassna variety from sellers. The trees will be ready for inoculation in 2-3 years. But i recommend that u wait a further 2 to 3 years after inoculation before harvesting to get better results.
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[/quote]
Hi Teteret,
Care to help me identify what spices this is?
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Hope these are the top species brows.gif
MrFarmer
post Oct 24 2011, 10:03 PM

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QUOTE(Michael J. @ Oct 19 2011, 02:29 PM)
Mr Farmer:

Before you go into Cavendish, please get more information on the crop. As I know, for export purposes, Cavendish need chill room treatment. And fingers ripen at different rates, very uneven. Prices are good though, at about RM5 for 5 fingers in many retail outlets.

Bro, groundnuts need sandier soils. Bris series soils are suitable. You could try planting, no harm trying.

The reason I recommended banana is because it generates more income compared to other crops without the need for much value adding. If you're not too particular, you could try planting legumes, like Azuki or mung beans. They can help in nitrogen fixing, i.e. add nitrogen from air into soil, so it might be a good choice. Returns are not great though, about RM1,635 per acre if yields are around 15 cwt/acre. Some Australian growers I know actually intercrop mung beans or peas with corn, both to add nutrient to the soil, and also as a secondary crop to corn since the beans or peas are climbers.
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These are some of the plants that are showing potential growth. We shall still need a couple of months analyze to the yield. Yes, had planted lots of banana trees, harvesting the first batch. Still had not started on the Cavendish, as out of the 60 tissue cultured plants-lest that we bought, only 8 survived till now, but this is due to mismanagement. How about the Berangan type?
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Groundnuts are sprouting. Shall be planting more.
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Sweet potatoes, propagated by stem cutting, are showing signs of growth. Shall expand more.
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The Serai is showing signs of growth, hopefully we can fatten it this time smile.gif
We can't really plant a single crop on too large a scale as the market here is limited.
Michael J.
post Oct 25 2011, 08:53 AM

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Mr. Farmer:

I will tell you what I think after seeing the pictures later tonight.

Some opinions on banana. Berangan by far will fetch you a very good demand in the domestic market, as we Malaysians just love our sweet stuff, and the banana is one of the sweetest varieties around. You would also likely get good prices for the variety, as huge tracks of banana plantations have been wiped out in Peninsular, due to fusarium infection. However, you need to be very careful when managing this variety, as once disease sets in (due to translocated infected soil, infected farm tools, or even human contact from infected area), it will rapidly destroy everything. This includes other crop species, like chilies, brinjals, tomatoes etc. Cavendish is supposedly more tolerant, but with the way the disease is evolving, we really don't know when that tolerance will fail. Many banana scientists are in the fear that domesticated bananas will soon become extinct, as soon as within the next 10 years. More resilient varieties than the Cavendish and Berangan include the Tanduk (a plantain), Nangka, and possibly Abu/Awak. Usually the cooking bananas show more tolerance than dessert bananas.

I agree with you about not putting all your eggs into one basket. Diversification is a good option, and I believe you have already done sufficient market survey to make informed decisions. I would also like to add one other thing: value-adding. If there is a way of making some of your produce more desirable and fetch better prices without being too costly or troublesome, no harm looking into that. Candied sweet potatoes or bananas are always a nice offering. Or chocolate covered bananas. I've tried serai toffee before, and it is actually quite nice.

Good to know about your serai. I hope the same for you too.
MrFarmer
post Oct 26 2011, 06:29 PM

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Found those guys that were eating off our Bayam. It had just rained in the evening, and I was resting by the tree. I though why were they so much flies? I tried to shoo them away, but they wouldn't Bug.
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There were so many of them.
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It's an invasion.
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Even caught them doing their 'thing'.

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