MJ,

Ahh, i read about a papaya farmer give his seedlings some "aging" process to make the seedlings yellowish by reduce sunlight, reduce water etc ways of "torturing" them so that can grow up to be more tolerant to harm and less tasty to pest. So by now I have an impression that plants start their life better in compost or natural old soil.

Oh about the "activated carbon" they apply it by covering the soil around the plant and say it will prevent fungus growth and can act as "moisture regulator"(guess it means capture moisture). One paragraph only, you hv finish reading it.

Anyhow, i guess the purposes are interrelated and the main one should be like what you mentioned.

Haha... yea, rexis... Something like that. The process is called hardening. There are many ways of doing this, and there is no hard and fast rule about it. However, for seedlings raised in nursery beds, this hardening process is still a must, especially after transplanting from nursery pot to main growing pot (or bag whichever you're using).

Mmm... activated carbon to control fungus? Moisture regulator? He talking about mulching ah? Well maybe the guy did not see any mushrooms growing where his plants are so he assumed can prevent fungus lor.... But the truth is that activated carbon, even in pellet form, is a pretty good medium for mycelium adherance. As for water regulator.... that depends. As a mulch, activated carbon doesn't have much water holding capacity, unless you soak it for about a week and after that keep it wet at all times. But if he's talking about cation exchange capacity with regard to water, then yea, it does make a difference.

By the by, please do note that carbon is basis of all life on earth. So don't think that carbon is not important in soil and nutritient; it is the opposite for carbon is the most important component, but most ignored.

Harvest Kai-lan today, Corn stil 16-20days

Fish Pond Fertilizer Organice Fertilizer Corn Pitaya
Kailan



I practise Organic Farming and inter-crop way ,therefore grow Veg v weed, not use pesticid. The Kai-lan taste was nice!!

This post has been edited by kianwei8: Mar 12 2008, 07:54 PM


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hi, KW.

Wonderful picture there, would like to know more details.

Can you tell us more about the details of your agri project?

Like whats the topic(intercropping kai lan and sweetcorn organicly? organic sweetcorn nutrition? etcetc),
objectives(how organic farming keep up with chemical farming?),
and how you do that(do you clear the land or the land ready for you? Do you get to use all those tractor etc?)?

It gotta be something related with organic!

I have always interested about Agriculture degree, perhaps you have some idea about is there any part time course in UPM? Particularly part time degree.

Pretty corn girl there , and am i looking at you gf or yourself?

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MJ, ahh yes yes, hardening is the proper word. So what is the few of the ways to harden the crop? I know one way for sure, from the hydroponic site, they use fan to blow the seedlings to make them more resistance to wind.

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Maize in Malaysia


My 2 cents! (no more 1 cent soon!)

edit: added spoiler due to long winded article

This post has been edited by rexis: Mar 13 2008, 11:11 AM

Hardening depends on the manner your seedling exits the system lor... Tissue cultured plants like orchids for example requires stepwise exposure to the environment, eg. controlled sunlight exposure, air contact etc. Like for hydroponic, the main reason they do wind hardening is because the seedlings grow on liquid based media, the fluid content of the cellular matrix is much higher than normal; so should there be a drought period, or if water in soil/media after transplant insufficiently high, it may cause the plant to bend or snap. By hardening using wind, the cuticle layer is toughened to withstand wind damage better lor...

Very dependant one lar this hardening process... but is crucial to do it anyhow to reduce transplanting shock to seedlings later on.

Erm... kernel cake ah? hahaha.... Actually got do one. My company got process it lor.. Quite a good response. But the main reason why maize and grains are still used is because of politics.... Ministers-minister got interest in certain companies that sell such stuff....

Mmm... do note that the main reason why grain prices have leaped so much over the recent months is because of US bioethanol production. Whatever grains US has, all kena sapu by bioethanol producers.

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Added on March 13, 2008, 11:37 amkianwei,

Erm.... organic farming = growing with weeds? Not necessary so... Ever heard of mulching ah? Plastic mulching not considered organic mulching, can still use wood shavings ma? good control of weeds. Wont eliminate weeds, but can at leat control them from getting out of hand.

Mmm... sure 100% organic or not? No use of inorganic pesticide is one thing, how about the fertilizer? Are those fertilizers i see 100% organic or fortified organic fertilizers? If organic fertilizer, how do you do quality control to ensure crop uniformity?

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Added on March 13, 2008, 12:11 pmrexis,

Eh... got company doing that de lei... check out this company called Vermicast. Although they sell the earthworm casting as fertilizer, the also sell the excess worms as feed. Not sure if they process the worms first or not, but that's what the exhibitor told us at MICCOS. Oh, by the by, my company is also doing research on earthworms, and our earthworm breeding programme is a great success. We should be able to publish our findings in The Planter soon.

Hmmm.... I have to point something out, I hope i have not said this before. Malaysia has very limited arable land. In Peninsular Malaysia, save for our forested areas, we have used up all of our good agriculture land. Whatever land still available for development are largely marginal soils which are not very good for agriculture. East Malaysian land bank is still quite big, but then again most of them are peat soils, which give rise to a number of issues related to agri (i) Agriculture quality (ii) Cost effectiveness (iii) Environmental and social issues. There are many more, but these are the core issues at hand when thinking of developing peat land.


So the real issue at hand in Malaysia is not trying to just increase production of food crops, but how to best utilize existing agriland and make it sustainable in the long run. If compared to Indon or Thailand, Malaysia really has little arable land, and so in terms of scale of production we really cannot compete against them. But in terms of quality we have a definite fighting chance IF the focus of the scientific community and the agriculturist is on the same path.

Frankly speaking i'm very dissapointed with the government agencies dealing with agriculture. They are more willing to spend millions of ringgit doing research work that bears little or no significant results or value, than to work together with dedicated individuals to push the forefronts of the industry. Look at how advanced the crops that are being produced in Europe and US. They are talking about a 10-20% improvement in crop performance per year!! And Malaysia? We're barely improving some of our crop performance by 1% per year!!

This is appalling to say the least. It's a shame that the government agencies, who supposedly have huge funds backing them are not able to achieve what some in the private sector are achieving today; worse still, those private sector fellas achieved their results with less than a fraction of the cost government agencies are incurring. What is even more appalling is that some INDIVIDUALS are getting far better results than the government agencies.

This post has been edited by Michael J.: Mar 13 2008, 12:11 PM

Not necessary need to eradicate weeds, I know some of the sweetcorn planters actually ignore the weeds and let them grow before they harvest, as according to them, this will help maintain moisture.

I have read somewhere in www.journeytoforever.org about an article that talk about a fruit estate which over fertilized their land and result in reduced production, after they hv abundant the estate for a year and back, they accidentally discovered that, although the estate is nearly outgrown by 'weeds', the fruit trees also looks very healthy and bearing lots of fruit. It is said that the weeds that have deep roots actually bring up the deep soil nutrient and sort of balanced up the soil, etc etc. I remember one type of plant they mentioned is close relative to egg plant.

- - -

Hey, tell me about your earthworms and <Planters>.

I hv used to keep a box of earthworms(just 10+ la till they breeding small one) until my mum found it ^^" and hv been interested about breeding stuff with organic plant waste.

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Replying other topic after proper digestion

Rexis,

There is a lot of dispute regarding the use of 'weeds' as living mulch. After all, a 'weed' is any plant life that is not the planted (crop) found growing within the vicinity or area of the said crop. Even beneficial plants like those used in Integrated Pest Management, if found growing outside of their designated grow-zones (i.e. palm circle, rentice etc.) are considered 'weeds'.

Some of the proposed disadvantages surrounding the use of 'weeds' as living mulch include:
(i) Competition with crop plants. Do note that weeds are usually highly competitive plants, which mean they quickly drain the immediate surrounding of important nutrients crucial to crop growth and performance. For perennial, care against weeds is crucial especially in the establishing years leading up to first harvest. There after, weeding regimes may be loosened a little, but kept running. For annuals, this is even more crucial, as annuals are very similar to many weeds in terms of growth pattern. There have been numerous studies done by agronomist on weed competition, but as the papers they write tend to be somewhat dry and unexciting, not many people really care to read about it. Weeding on plantations are not done for no reason lei, and chemical costs wouldn't be so darn high if weeding was not crucial.

(ii) 'Weeds' draw nutrients locked underground and deposit them on the top soil layer. This notion is not true at all. Most weeds like sedges, grasses, reeds etc have a shallow root system, which is within the top 15-20cm of soil. The top 30-40cm of soil is still considered top soil, so i cannot understand how weeds are able to draw nutrients locked underground to the top soil layer if their root system only goes down to 20cm. As for what the sweetcorn farmers you mentioned earlier said, note what you wrote: "... they let them grow before they harvest..". Meaning to say they allow the weeds to grow when harvest season is approaching, right? Then that would make economic sense, as a few things have to considered here (a) You want to reduce cost, and since harvest season is only 1-1.5 months or so away, what for apply weedicide? (b) Your crop may be affected by the weedicide, reducing it's appeal, i.e. weedicide damage on corn cob, weedicide residue etc. © Again relating to the harvest season. You're going to harvest everything soon, and after tilling the land, you still need to apply weedicide. Might as well do it after harvest during tillage since it is just a couple of weeks away.

I think the plant you are referring to as looking like eggplant is called Mucuna bracteata. That is not a weed unless it grows where it shouldn't. The key differences with that plant and your average weed is that (a) unlike weeds, Mucuna is very deep rooted, up to 100-120cm depending on soil type and elevation. This means that it is effective and efficient in drawing underground nutrients up to the top soil level. (b) Mucuna is shade intolerant, meaning it will die back as the crop plant grows and forms a shade. This means that at least for tree crops, the shade the tree forms as it matures will ensure that little immediate competition is given by Mucuna over time. © Mucuna is gregarious in growth, meaning that the organic matter it deposits (through die back, root mass etc) is very much higher than weeds. This also means that the deep drawn nutrients from underground are deposited abundantly right at the top soil layer, making it easily accessed by the root system of crop plants. (d) Mucuna is leguminous, meaning that it has root nodules that provide growth space for beneficial rhizo bacterium to grow. Rhizo bacterium by the way, are bacteria that fixes atmospheric nitrogen into the soil, thereby enriching soil fertility. Read up on the nitrogen cycle for more understanding.

(iii) 'Weeds' keep soil moist. Partially true. Weed root mass and body do lock in soil moisture, and their rather extensive root system on the top soil layer does keep the top soil layer somewhat friable. But that's just the top soil layer. For annuals, maybe that is more crucial, but perennial not so.

Now, 'weeds' do have some plus points worth noting, although the way they are meant to be used does not make them 'weeds':
(i) Green cover. This is part of IPM method. Provide herbivorous insects with a green space where they can feed and live, and they won't disturb your plants so much. Green cover also provides shelter and breeding place for beneficial insects that control the troublesome ones.

(ii) Ground cover. Ensure soil in non-planting zones does not flow-off, otherwise known as soil erosion. However, this role can be substituted by other plant forms.

TS, very informative thread here. Nice work. I think both agriculture & aquaculture have very bright potential.

Over fertility is a major problem in many start up farm. It could be due to many reasons why something as such happens. Maybe there wasn't a soil nutrient analysis that was done; or maybe just plain ignorance. Under fertilizing the soil and over fertilizing the soil results in the same thing: Reduced yields. The equation does not work where >Fertilizer = >Productivity. There is a threshold level for fertilizers. This, as with all things biological in nature, is dependent on many factors. The most important factor, and one that we most definitely have control on, is the soil type. Different soils have different nutrient holding capacity. Selangor Series soils are more balanced, so is the Serdang Series. Acid sulphate soils on the other hand are rather troublesome to manage, as their nutrient holding capacity fluctuates quick broadly. (Acid sulphate soils narmally are the result of peat soils breaking down over time). Needless to say, sandy soils have the worst nutrient holding capacity, so fertilizer regimes must be more frequent, but in much more controlled amounts.

The second thing that is somewhat in our control is the crop type. Different crop species are known for their differing intensities on fertilizers. Leaf crops live leaf vegetables need more Nitrogen (N), so more nitrogen based fertilizers like Ammonium Nitrate or Urea should be applied instead of the other 3 components. For fruiting types, you need more Potassium (K), so fertilizers like Muriate of Potash should be applied more. That's just a general guide, but the key point here is that as a planter, you MUST KNOW what you are planting. No short cuts.

Rexis, I feel that what the orchard manager saw was more of an associated occurence. If truly the orchard has been over-fertilized till the point of crop reduction, how would additional fertilizer brought up by weeds help recover it? No, i feel that it is true that the weeds helped bring balance to the nutrient status of the orchard, but not by bringing in extra nutrients from deep soil; instead, i feel what had happened was that the vigorous growth nature of the weeds have managed to sap the soil of so much nutrient that balance managed to be achieved. As you noted, the orchard was heavily overgrown. However, leave it like that for a further one year, then as soil fertility reduces, the crop production may very well fall again.

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Added on March 14, 2008, 2:51 pmEkestima,

Yes, agriculture and aquaculture most definitely have bright futures. The only problem that lies ahead is there is no consensus or integrative networking amongst all the farmers/planters/operator. Everyone just minds their own business; there is no unity. Just look at Thailand for a simple and quick reference, and compare Malaysia. Maybe Thailand is too advanced for Malaysia; let's just compare Indonesia to Malaysia then. I dunno how many people watches Agrotech on RTM, but if you have been watching it long enough, you would notice that 80% of the farms and techniques featured are from countries outside of Malaysia, especially Thailand and Indon.

If we want to be productive and effective, we have to push the limits. We have to crash through the barriers. We have to have a corporate spirit. I really love the quote the CEO of my company uses:" If you want to have fried eggs, you've got to crack the egg first".

Call me competitive, but I cannot stand staring at the backside of others who are running far ahead. And it's not because it's an ugly sight seeing flabby buttocks jiggling up and down.... hahaha.... At the very least I have to be running side by side with the others.

Now i don't mean that since other nation got send people into space, we should too. What i'm saying is that we must measure ourselves to what those at our level can do. Once we've broken the barrier, we move to a higher level. No such thing as 'skipping grades'. And who's at our level? Thailand? Indon? Phillipines? or are they considered too "off-track"? Then in that case, compare ourselves to Taiwan, a nation not recognized by the UN, and yet so much more advanced than ourselves.

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Added on March 14, 2008, 3:11 pmHaha.... Rexis my brother, i cannot share too much information regarding the earthworm breeding to you lar... At least not until the scientist working on it decides to publish their study lor... work ethics. Furthermore, if you decide to start one breeding plot, you may run some of the smaller operators out of business lei... harharhar....! Maybe i could share more with you if i manage to be at Midvalley gathering this 29th March.

The Planter is an exclusive journal that is published by the Incorporated Society of Planters. ISP is an international body, with members from various countries, usually ex-colonial nations. Hence, being rather exclusive, membership is likewise 'exclusive'. My company has been encouraging me to join the Society, but i've yet to formally hand in my proposal. Too much work to do till no time to get the necessary signatures. I may decide to get it signed by end of March, since after the last presentation I made, the signatories have been much impressed. I hope that impression would at least motivate them to endorse my candidature to the Society.

This post has been edited by Michael J.: Mar 14 2008, 03:13 PM

my sincere belief is that if the Govt Agencies opens up abit more rather than being siding one side...am sure the country will prosper especially the agriculture and aquaculture sector.

i am new here, and would like some update on the soon hock. I am very interested. I have my own land. Aqua farmer could you furnish me with your contact details so that i can pay you a visit asap.

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Added on March 16, 2008, 12:41 amAbout Jatropha Curcas. This plant is now widely planted in India. It has 33% of oil produced. I come to know about this 4 years back but i drop it last 1 1/2 years due do many reason in malaysia MPOB as biodiesel is currently using palm oil.

This post has been edited by daniel_ng: Mar 16 2008, 12:41 AM

5-6mT/month/module

hi daniel,

why dont you come to our meet up on the 29th March @ Nando Mid Valley.

MJ,

ICIC, no prob, so how? Everything done already? Coming liao?

Ah, so thats the purpose of GAP, proper control of weeds is always crucial for any sensible harvest.

We have been terrified by stories of heavily pesticided crops causing sickness and cancer(especially by direct sellers selling vitamins - eat vege also no uses so eat my pills, WTF) and this is how people promote the organic way too.

Agriculture is actually working *against* the nature so there is no 100% "natural" way to do it, the nature is always attempting to turn your farmland back to forest and weeds is one of the proof. You need to put weeds down to knees by properly control it, either chemically or manually.

Theres an interesting idea i read about to make use of geese in weeds control(they are vegetarian), that is raise a batch of young geese with types of particular weeds so that they are used to eating the mentioned plant. When they grow up, release them in the farm and they will clear out all the weeds for you full time.

But, i guess it wont take too long for the geese to discover that chilies pods or seedlings etc are delicious as well!

- - -

Welcome daniel_ng, perhaps you can share with us a bit about your background?

Hi guys, quick question: is there an existing thread discussing dairy farming or cultivating livestock such as goats or cows?

nope not at the moment
please feel free to contribute

Guess MJ will have a very good understand about this one but its an open topic.

What method we can use to extract oil content? From fruit, seed, etc.

Pressure - using screw press to squeeze out the oil content with high pressure, can involve heavy equipment that can process tons of ingredients per hour to a hand operated screw press with 1-2 kg per hour.

Water seperation - something like how they extract olive oil?

Chemical - use a chemical solvent to wash out the oil content, high tech stuff.

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Lets say I happened to have some oil seeds here, what is the best way to extract it?

I have been thinking about using a car hydraulic lift to press the content thru a wire mesh. But it seem a little complicated and messy.

So I am now looking at the olive oil way, I am going to blend/beat the seeds into pulp, then pour the goo into boiling water and let the oil float naturally, then i scoop them up.

Hmm, did i posted any Jamnapari information before? But i did mentioned it before somewhere in this forum.

Feel free to ask here, I will see what I can find. Even better if you feel like contribute.

bro rexis,

Haha... Not yet settle lar... Everyone in the committee busy with Good Friday and Easter lei.... Easter Sunday we will convene and settle the issues lor... I'll give my final word 3-4 days before the 29th?

Hmm... in Sepang, I used to rear a lot of fowls. Ducks and geese.... despite quite good at controlling weeds, they make a mess of the soil lei.. I kept Muscovy Whites, and those typical brown geese you see in kampungs. Before keeping the ducks and geese, i had kept Guinea Fowls, which are these very beautiful ground birds from Africa. Also good in controlling weeds, slugs, snails, and snakes. Only downside is that they are crazy noisemakers, especially the females. I only had one female who was quiet and very tame; i hand picked her as a juvenile. Oh, and one other thing is that although they seem flightless and prefer to run about on the ground, they are very good flyers. Meaning to say, they can fly very far distances, even on top of a two storey house roof.

mmm.... Funny you mentioned about oil extraction... here at the RD, we also extract tea tree oil, along with a number of other plant based essential oils. Just as a research interest, although for tea tree oil, we are one the largest exporter of pure oil to the European market. I can't show you or tell you how the extractor we works, but let me just give you a key word: steam.

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Added on March 17, 2008, 8:32 pmoh ya... ps: before you go off using steam or hot water etc to extract oil from crushed seed, please do note that heating cost is very VERY expensive... just had a look at my Heat Chamber electricity bill.... almost fainted... Hahaha....

This post has been edited by Michael J.: Mar 17 2008, 08:32 PM

haha, thank

Just discuss abt Potential Crop v Prof yesterday

inc: Jatropha,Valina, Seaweed,.....


RExis- abt jatropha may google it, ya, actually my Veg cant b "organic' coz the ppl be4 use
chemical ,so the land was contaminate, however , i was learn form Australia Organic farm
yaya,clear the land v machine, later show u pic

ParaOpticaL- yaya, tat one is Silver shine @ plastic mulch, use to maintain soil moisture n temperature, control weed


UPM hv goats and Cow farm and training course for mushroom,fish seed , etc just less ppl know abt it

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Added on March 18, 2008, 9:49 amHEy,Every one

Jatropha seed was available for sale , may PM me

This post has been edited by kianwei8: Mar 18 2008, 09:49 AM

kianwei : if there is any fish related courses please let us know.. thanks

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am planning to postpone the meet up from 29th March to 5th April 2008.

would it be ok for most ?