Dear Michael J.,

I totally agree with your analysis that prawn is a guaranteed market. I have done my research on prawns as well. My first idea was to farm prawns instead of fishes. Personally, there are a number of factors currently restricting the farming of prawns successfully.

Firstly, prawns (correct me if I am mistaken) uses pond culture to grow out and it most definitly is unsuitable for tank culture. Thus we are unable to CONTROL like what ParaOpticaL has mentioned.

Secondly, prawns are very susceptible to disease and very sensitive to the environment. They are easily wiped out if any of the two conditions deteriorate. Thus losing all your investments.

Lastly, the high amount of capital needed to begin the venture for someone who does not have much industry knowledge or expertise does really put you off from trying it out.

Razkyo:

Yes, you are right on most parts. The conventional way is to raise prawns through pond culture. However, the Texas A&M University has pioneered prawn raceway culture in a staggared tier form. The technology is called Super Intensive Raceway Shrimp. This may be the way forwards in the near future.

Yes, prawns are susceptible to diseases. That's why there are Specific Pathogen Free prawn larvae for culture. This type of material alone gives the culturist a 50% lead. SPF materials are already available in Malaysia, just need to find them. In addition to this, there are existing technologies which uses negatively-charged salt ions in water as bacteriacidal/viricidal agents to keep diseases in check. This technology is currently being brought in into Malaysia, and a demo farm is currently being constructed as we speak. Can't divulge much, as it is one of the "High Impact" projects the government wants to use for "advertising" purposes. But in short, there are currently technologies being developed to "help" with addressing the lack of real control in open cultures such as pond cultures.

Yes, aquaculture in general is capital intensive. It is not restricted to one type over the other. In fact, if we really wanted to compare, the capital outlay for pond culture is lower than RAS.

Eg. 1 hectare river side land could cost about RM100,000; plus your land work, overheads etc. the total cost of set up is about RM300,000. For RAS system, a single RAS unit with two large tanks for production of roughly 8,000kg of fish will cost close to RM100,000; plus overheads, cement work, shading etc., that could add up an extra RM30,000 per unit.

Furthermore, for shrimp pond culture, it is possible to attain 17.5mt of crop per hectare/year. At prices of RM17 (retail) per kg, that's equivalent to RM297,500 per hectare per year. Ok lar, that figure may be for very good farms; the average farm in Vietnam produces about 11mt per hectare, or RM187,000 worth of crop. For the same one RAS unit above, your returns are RM72,000 for 8,000kg of fish. Fine, if you could build about 40-50 units on 1 hectare, and get revenues of RM2.88 million, but your capital input is also likewise increased (i.e. RM130k x 40).

This post has been edited by Michael J.: Apr 27 2012, 05:40 PM

Dear Michael J,

Thanks for the valuable insight. It really will be nice to see the new technology that have been brought in to Malaysia. One more reason that I did not consider prawn farming is also due to the limited lands available or suitable for a large scale project. As you might know RAS system can easily be deployed on land. I have just concluded a deal to rent a piece of land for my business. As such, to convert it into a pond might not be feasible for me as I would need to literally dig up most part of the land which my landlord would not be agreeable to. Therefore there lies my only option which is through RAS. Well, instead of saying that it is RAS system. I would consider it as canvas culture which is somewhat unique to Malaysia. I came to understand that a lot of farmers in Malaysia are using canvas instead of tanks to save cost on materials. I am liaising with Marble Goby Enterprise regarding the use of this technology for farming Tilapia and apparently they informed me that it is quite feasible.

Would like to ask for your opinion on using canvas to farm tilapia?

Was looking into Tilapia sometime back, my trial did not kick off due to time and labor constrain. We did "threw" in some fo the Tilapia fries into our watering pond. Maybe we can do a harvest later part of the year.

Keeping track on this discussion. Razkyo please keep us update on your progress. Maybe we can arrange for a farm visit one day.

One thing about canvas culture is mobility. If it's done on a frame system, it can be moved. Good option if it's a rented property. As for cost wise had not done a thorough comparison as for cement/concrete or even light weight concrete may be cheaper, as this also depends on local availability .

Canvas system also has their problem with Durability of the canvas used.

but if the cost if low it might be worth to try.

Razkyo : where is your pond or farm ?


MrFarmer : when you get back from Sabah....do make time to come over to my farm. let's share some ideas

Dear ParaOpticaL,

Apologies for the late response as I was busy. The land that I rented is in Pahang near Pekan. I am liaising with Marble Goby to design the layout of the farm as well as the piping and other logistics. I agree that the worrying issue is the durability of the canvas. According to the consultant, we will have to change the canvas every two years. At one point I was considering to purchase the fiber glass tanks but the cost of one fiber glass tank is too much.

Razkyo:

Marble Goby has a good track record in their production and marketing, something not every "consultant" has on hand. You'd do well to have them on board as advisors.

As for canvas culture, for the short to medium term, it is still alright, especially since you're renting the land. I had the impression you had no need to rent any land. Nonetheless, if you are in this for the long haul, you might want to consider a more permanent solution.

I agree with you; fibreglass tanks cost a bomb. But they do last a lot more longer than canvas, and they can be made to withstand greater pressures (i.e. large amounts of water, and thus, culture of more fish).

Hi Razkyo,

to start you could use the canvas first to test out the system. once you reach breakeven or projected profitability then you can try to use fiber glass as you are more assured of the operations and everything

agreed with MichaelJ., that fiber glass last much longer and more durable thus the higher cost. Good Thing No Cheap, Cheap Thing No Good...haha

Next trip home is on 11th June. See you then. Staying for 9 days. Yes, would like to visit your farm. The more we discuss, the more idea shall crop up.

---

Added on April 30, 2012, 7:22 pmFully agree here, to bee on the conservative side, keep initial expenses to the minimum (unless you have a big fat account/unlimited support). As mostly, there shall be lots of unforeseen problems/ expenses. Michael also has a point on the durability. As most probably you wouldn't be doing all ponds in one go, maybe a half/half. That is start with the lower cost in phase 1.

As for consultant, go for those with good track record. ConSultant, break in up = CON you first, then INSULT you

Razkyo
Where is your targeted market? East coast I guess you shall be competing with sea fishes. West coast I guess rather far. Have to think about logistic, transporting your harvest. I think there is most probably some mortality loss during transporting?

This post has been edited by MrFarmer: Apr 30 2012, 07:22 PM

Bro,

we can go to our farm either on 15th or 16th May 2012. so let's meet up on that day

i will be away from 17th - 19th May....

Sorry Para, can not, still in Sabah for May, only back to KL on 11th June

sorry my mistake...

that whole week apart from Monday i've got no problem

come down and let's share inputs

Nutrient deficiency?
Papaya



Rubber Tree

@MrFarmer:
Insect feeding/sucking sap from your leaf ? i saw some small white white thing on the leaf.

Mr Farmer:

The top two photos on papaya have pest problems, night-flying beetles. If you find black frass (crap) on the lower leaves, then you're likely to have night-flying beetles. This is the initial stage of attack. My cacao tree was devastated by night-flying beetles in this same way. You can use malathion mixed with a sticker-solution, or use Dipel which is a biopesticide. Dipel is more expensive though, and washes off quite easily, so use this only intermittently with chemical controls.

Third papaya picture shows nutrient deficiency. You may need to clear the grass nearby, and apply some additional kieserite and urea. Reduce you potassium inputs (eg. bunch ash, MOP etc.), or better still, don't apply until budding is seen. I feel that there could be competition effect between potassium, magnesium and nitrogen happening.

You mango tree has sap-sucking insect attacking it. Looks like symptoms of red spider mites, but please check the underside of the leaves first. If you see reddish-colored crab-like/tiny spider like things dashing about, then confirmed. Otherwise, you could have other more mobile sap suckers, like rice bugs or mictis. For mites, you need to use Mitec, or apply soapy solutions (like mild, diluted detergents, unscented bath soapwater etc.), followed by malathion or cypermethrin. Both are class 1 chemicals, so be careful. The newer formulations may have lower classifications, but still, be careful.

This post has been edited by Michael J.: May 4 2012, 09:53 AM

Thanks Kissan. Shall check.

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Added on May 4, 2012, 6:07 pmThanks Michael.
Sorry, I don't understand the "competition effect". I understand that nutrients is just dissolved and wait to be absorbed by the roots.

This post has been edited by MrFarmer: May 4 2012, 06:07 PM

Mr Farmer:

Nutrient competition in soil is related to the chemistry of soil. It may be a little technical, but what you'd need to know is that everything has a balancing point; too much of one thing can be just as bad as having too little.

The explanation of nutrient competition is as follows. It might sound sexist and crude, but please bear with me:

Think of nutrients as women on a shopping spree during the Big Sale. There are young teenage girls, there are 20-something girls, there are the more median aged women, and there are the more mature women.

Now think of clothing outlets as being plants, who depend on the "nutrients" paying a "visit" to their outlets in order to survive.

Each outlet would have particular types of items on sale prefered by those within certain age groups, and therefore "need" the specific age groups of women to come visit their store. Eg. teenage girls might go for clothing items worn by the Hunter Game's leading lady; 20-something girls would probably go for Korean girl-group fashoin, etc. etc.

So these outlets will have promotions from time to time to "attract" particular age groups of women to "visit". Often, these promotions are very targeted, whereby the age groups will hardly overlap. But once in a while, the outlet smight put on promotion something that is desired by multiple age groups (eg. LV bags are quite popular, I'm told). What happens, is a mad rush, which clogs up the outlet, resulting in delayed sales. In the case of actual outlets, well, they always get paid in the end; but for plants, this competition can starve the plants quite badly, damaging it significantly.

The second scenario is something like the above, except that in this case, there are less women during the Big Sale, and they are accompanied by non-targeted groups of people. We shall call them "non-targeted nutrients". Visualise them as the brothers, boyfriend, husbands, fathers, etc. etc. of these women. And all these fellas are super kiam siap dudes. And instead of being accompanied by one dude, each woman is accompanied by 2-3 or more (i.e. there are more dudes in the shopping mall than gals; not gonna happen, but hey, think creatively).

Normally, the "non-targeted nutrients" are quite liberal when going to the shopping malls with their women. But during Big Sale time, especially when there are less "nutrients" a.k.a. women for the outlets to woo and entice, these kiam siap brothers, boyfriends, husbands, fathers etc etc will hold on to their women tightly. Because they know, with so few other women about, the chances of "overspending" at those enticing outlets is very very high. In other words, if the women want to enter an outlet, the dudes will pull them away, thus preventing them from "visiting" and "spending" in the outlet. In plants, this literally worsens the state of starvation faced by the plant, accelerating whatever nutritional disease that is already present.

Now, with the right balance of all the above, things become very peaceful. No mad rushes, no controlling boyfriends/husbands/fathers etc. The outlets get their fair share of spenders, and there is no overspending.

Get the analogy?

In the case of what's probably happening to your plants, substitute scenario 1's "women" with potassium and magnesium. But consider magnesium as the more mature women who aren't nimble and quick-moving as the younger women (potassium), and are less in number in the shopping malls. The aggressiveness and sheer abundance of potassium being attracted to the plants outcompetes magnesium in being absorbed by the plant; this results in a "false" magnesium deficiency, which means that even though magnesium may be available is good quantity in the soil, the sheer amount of potassium greatly reduces the chances of any magnesium being absorbed. The more mature women (magnesium), although lower in number, generally have more cashflow than younger women (potassium), and so can impact the outlet's sales figure quite significantly; losing their business will put a dent in the bank account of the outlet in the long run.

Hope this paints a clearer picture.

And to any female readers we have, my apologies for the analogy; but you gals do make it simpler for us guys to visualise things.

This post has been edited by Michael J.: May 5 2012, 01:19 AM

this is the first time someone had used this kind of analogy...which also explains your flair in writing...

good explanation bro

Hi People,

Just released this Month's Newsletter



http://www.mediafire.com/?mbwfc20gcssbqsu


Have Fun Reading and remember...Agriculture & Aquaculture = BIG BUSINESS

Just in case you guys have not already read this:

Sabah expected to receive investment of more than RM1 billion from American company
http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v6/newsindex.php?id=664808

I think I had brought up this about a year or so before.