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 LYN Official FIA F1 World Championship 2007 Thread, Another McLaren 1-2

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TSlinkinstreet
post May 29 2007, 05:04 PM

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QUOTE(karhoe @ May 29 2007, 04:36 PM)
Singapore roads are quite wide, it shouldn't be as tight as Moncao
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actuallty, if you go to monaco when there is no race, it's WIDE! The width is severly comprimised with the barriers errected as they need space behind the barriers for the marshalls to operate.
TSlinkinstreet
post May 29 2007, 05:11 PM

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The fact that McLaren had given Lewis the "safety car" strategy at a track notorious for safety car shows that they don't really care who won. Statistics shows that before the race he had the higher chance to win than Fernando did. But as we can see, there was no safety car thus that chance slipped.
TSlinkinstreet
post May 29 2007, 07:04 PM

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the top 3 teams are safe IMO. BMW, Macca and Ferrari had no complaint other than that flexi floor issue
TSlinkinstreet
post May 29 2007, 10:02 PM

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FIA to listen in to McLaren radio
QUOTE
The FIA's investigation into a "possible breach of the International Sporting Code" during McLaren's victory at the Monaco GP will centre on radio transmissions between the team and Lewis Hamilton.


Although the investigation will study the telemetry of Hamilton's performance, it is the exchanges over McLaren's pit-to-car radio that are expected to prove decisive in forming any judgement against the Woking outfit.


McLaren have potentially contravened Article 151c of the International Sporting Code by way of 'any fraudulent conduct, or any act prejudicial to the interests of any competition, or to the interests of motorsport generally'.


An unrepentant Dennis insisted that his team had not broken the law, or its spirit. "Team strategy is what you bring to bear to win a grand prix; team orders are what you bring to bear to manipulate a grand prix," the McLaren team boss argued. "We do not, and have not, manipulated grands prix unless there are some exceptional circumstances."


Should they be found guilty, both Fernando Alonso and Hamilton could lose the points they collected at Monte Carlo. However, it is widely believed that, given Monaco's unique restrictions on overtaking, any punishment would take the form of a fine against the team.


Okay.... if a team had dominated a race so much that their nearest opposition bites the dust, and then the FIA took back that result, that would be the stupidest and bias decision ever
TSlinkinstreet
post May 30 2007, 09:18 AM

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QUOTE(BurgaFlippinMan @ May 30 2007, 12:24 AM)
actually it seems that ron dennis asked them to conserve their cars around lap 10...
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Interestingly, both of them posted their most fastest lap after their stop.
TSlinkinstreet
post May 30 2007, 12:32 PM

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depends. If he has managed to leapfrog Fernando, the situation might change and the team will tell Fernando to slow down
TSlinkinstreet
post May 30 2007, 04:58 PM

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heh, I was waiting for someone to post that "rant and rave" story. i've read that before Daily Mail even picked it up.
and 2 facts that interest me about that story

- It was from an "insider"
- and that "insider" also said that it was Schummi's decision that Massa run with 2 soft tyre stint.
- Daily Mail didn't use the Schummi news because they want the news to sound legit.

And I think enough of this issue. Even if there was no order that day, i still feel that he don't have the resource to match Fernando's pace that day. He was just toying around with Lewis. And I think Ron remembers Japan 1989, where Prost and Senna collided. Do he want to see that in front of all his corporate partners at Monaco? heck no.
TSlinkinstreet
post May 30 2007, 05:47 PM

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QUOTE
Bernie Ecclestone insists McLaren could face a ban or points deduction if they are found guilty of issuing team orders during Sunday's Monaco Grand Prix.

The FIA, motorsport's governing body, have launched an investigation into the circumstances of world champion Fernando Alonso's win in Monte Carlo amid allegations team-mate Lewis Hamilton, who finished second, was told not to challenge for the lead.

Lewis admitted afterwards he was told to "ease off" in his pursuit of the Spaniard with McLaren insisting it was simply part of their strategy.

But if the FIA conclude that the instruction amounted to team orders, banned under their own rules, Ecclestone would like to see the British-based team treated harshly.

Ferrari were fined £500,000 when they were found guilty of issuing team orders after the Austrian Grand Prix in 2002 - and Ecclestone believes that is the least McLaren should expect if they are found against.

"I don't know what the 'team orders' are or were," he told the Daily Mail.

"One thing is for sure - if there were team orders which relate to the position of the two drivers - if somebody is told to move over or hold their position - it is against all the sporting regulations we have.

"If there were orders, they would be getting off lightly if they get the same sort of fine as Ferrari.

"They could be excluded from the championship or they could have points deducted.

"A fine for McLaren, with its money, would not have the same effect as docking points."

But Ecclestone has ruled out a direct punishment for Hamilton or Alonso, claiming they would not have had a say in the 'manufactured' result.

"If there were instructions, it wouldn't be the drivers' fault," he added.

"If I'm driving for you and you tell me to stay where I am and not overtake the guy in front, what can I do?

"It would be those who give the orders who should receive the punishment."


Okay, if this was true, why was McLaren not charged when Kimi was ordered to stay behind Juan Pablo during the 2005 Brazillian grand prix? or the countless times Rubens was ordered to finish behind Schummi?
This is blaphmeous. All teams use team orders for their best interest. It's what F1 strategy is all about. Suddenly because they are doing the right thing McLaren is now the bad guy? I never even question Ferrari on their team order discounting the blantant Austrian GP because it's how you win a race, but for the FIA to suddenly crack down on a team just because they don't want anything to happen to the car is beyond doubt stupid beyond reason. And all because a brit failed to win his first grand prix. Give the FIA and FOM leadership to the French all that I can say. They do a better job than those lousy brits

This post has been edited by linkinstreet: May 30 2007, 05:48 PM
TSlinkinstreet
post May 30 2007, 07:06 PM

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that's why I said never trust the insider. I never believe 1 word of that shit.
And while I do feel Ferrari does bend the rule, I never said that their team orders other than that 2002 GP in austria breaches any rules. It's common knowledge that Rubens was ordered to finish behind Schummi many times, and that's strategy.
And that's why i said that McLaren already used that strategy in '05, but why nobody bothered about that during that weekend? Why now?
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post May 30 2007, 08:45 PM

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QUOTE(-= Virgil =- @ May 30 2007, 08:03 PM)
^
Hm.. i wondered why cant Alonso couldnt make the lead bigger if he was that fast whistling.gif

Come on, Hamilton show his frustration by saying that he could have be faster and this is was hindered by the team orders.. i am not saying that the team orders is wrong or such, i personally think there is no fault in the orders given...
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- After the start he was pulling away from Lewis before Davidson obstrcuted him
- He was slowing down during and after his second stop. Look at how he lesuirly pull out of the pits. He was not gunning on it or anything
- The engine will be used for Canada.

Thus there is no suprise that he was close to Lewis after all that.


Added on May 30, 2007, 8:48 pmMcLaren 'orders' to protect Montreal engines?
QUOTE
Having wiped the floor with the opposition in Monaco at the weekend, McLaren is looking to engine developments to bring about a repeat performance on the altogether different Montreal circuit next weekend.

According to as.com in Spain, the Woking operation toiled to get its Canadian-spec engines ready in time for Monaco, in order for them to be used on the other side of the Atlantic. With neither Fernando Alonso or Lewis Hamilton having suffered an engine failure this season, the Principality represented the first of the latest pair of races for which a single engine is to be used, meaning that the newest V8s had to be installed for the street circuit.

The reports suggest that the latest developments could be worth as much as two-tenths a lap to the drivers, but the question remains as to what state the units will be in after their Monaco exertions. Although newspaper reports globally suggested that the 'team orders' furore resulted from the team asking Alonso and Hamilton not to fight over the lead in order to protect their brakes, it may instead have been in order not to put too much strain on engines that had to complete another race distance after Monaco.
With Hamilton having chased down his team-mate in Monaco, there is the suggestion that his powerplant may have suffered, but speed trap figures in the Principality suggest that the improvements did indeed move McLaren ahead of Ferrari for the first time this season. However, the real test will come in Canada, where Montreal's Circuit Gilles Villeneuve highlights engine power a lot more than most other venues.

Alonso has already pointed to the two transatlantic rounds as being pivotal to title race, in which he is currently tied at the top with his rookie team-mate.

Although neither Montreal or, more especially, Indianapolis, have favoured the Spaniard in recent seasons, he insists that he will need to be on top of his game at both if he is to keep himself in the title race.
"You need to be there, you need to be on the podium,," he said over the Monaco weekend, "If not, you start to lose too many points. At the moment, we are four drivers fighting for everything but, if one has two or three bad results, then maybe it's a little bit too [much to lose] in terms of championship points."

Alonso has already finished off the podium in one race this season - when he was pushed back to fifth by Nick Heidfeld's BMW Sauber in Bahrain - but has also won two races, the same as Ferrari's Felipe Massa. It is currently the other Scuderia pilot, Kimi Raikkonen, who is lagging behind in the points race, having retired in Spain and finished only eighth in Monaco, but the Finn insists that all is not lost yet - provided he returns to winning ways before too long.


This post has been edited by linkinstreet: May 30 2007, 08:48 PM
TSlinkinstreet
post May 31 2007, 12:24 AM

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FIA clear McLaren after Monaco probe
QUOTE
The FIA have cleared McLaren of any wrongdoing during Sunday's Monaco GP.


Formula One's governing body launched an investigation into Fernando Alonso's victory after Woking boss Ron Dennis admitted that he asked Lewis Hamilton, who finished second, to slow down during the race.


However, the FIA have now declared that McLaren "did nothing which could be described as interfering with the race result". In a statement, they declared that McLaren's 'team strategy' was 'entirely legitimate' and ruled that 'no further action is necessary.'


It had been thought that, if found guilty, the team would face a swingeing fine or even be deducted the points garnered in Monaco courtesy of their 1-2 success.


The FIA Statement In Full:
'Having studied the radio traffic between Vodafone McLaren Mercedes (McLaren) and its drivers, together with the FIA observer's report and data from the team, it is clear that McLaren's actions during the 2007 Monaco Grand Prix were entirely legitimate and no further action is necessary.



The Facts
1. A two-stop strategy is the optimum at Monaco unless the safety car is deployed, in which case one-stop can sometimes be better.


2. The safety car has been deployed during four of the past five Monaco Grands Prix.


3. Under current rules the choice between a one-stop and two-stop strategy must be made before the final qualifying period.


4. It is clear from FIA measurements taken after qualifying that McLaren fuelled Hamilton for five more laps than Alonso.


5. This allowed Hamilton the option of a one-stop strategy should the safety car have come out during his first stint.


6. The safety car was not deployed.


7. The McLaren was significantly faster at Monaco than any other car.


Background
The primary objective of any team is for one of their drivers to win. If this can be achieved they will try to ensure their other car finishes second.


With no safety car during Alonso's first stint, there was a small but finite risk that it would come out during the five laps before Hamilton had to refuel. This would have put him behind the field and at a significant disadvantage to any car on a full (as opposed to optional) one-stop strategy. The latter cars would be expected to refuel around lap 40 - ie after the safety car had pitted if it came out during Hamilton's extra laps.


For similar reasons Hamilton was called in early for his second pit stop, thus assuring his second place, with or without a safety car.


Had the car in front of Hamilton not been his team-mate, McLaren might (probably would) have decided to risk the safety car and let Hamilton run for as long as his fuel load allowed in the hope that he would come out of the pits in the lead after one of his pit stops. There is, however, no obligation on them to take this risk in order to overtake their own car. Indeed it would be foolish to do so.


It is standard procedure for a team to tell its drivers to slow down when they have a substantial lead. This is in order to minimise the risk of technical or other problems. It is also standard practice and entirely reasonable to ask the drivers not to put each other at risk.


McLaren were able to pursue an optimum team strategy because they had a substantial advantage over all other cars. They did nothing which could be described as interfering with the race result.'


i forsee all british newspaper condemning the FIA tomorrow morning

Monaco is a joke and Ferrari will win
QUOTE
Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo has slammed the Monaco Grand Prix as a "joke" while backing the Prancing Horse to return to winning ways in Canada.


"Monte Carlo is a joke. It's not even a race, it's just a TV show," he told ANSA.


The Maranello-based team struggled in the Principality with Felipe Massa's podium finish nothing but damage limitation for Ferrari as McLaren romped to a one-two finish.


But di Montezemolo is adamant that the Italian squad will hit back at the Canadian Grand Prix.


He said: "Ferrari will win in Canada. We are recovering because we are working day and night."


World Championship leader Fernando Alonso shares the Ferrari chief's belief as their rivals are historically strong at high-speed circuits.


The McLaren star told the newspaper Diario As: "But Ferrari usually win at Indianapolis and so I believe that they go there starting as the favourites - and the same for Canada."

Yeah, it's a joke when you're rival is dominating, it's not a joke when you're winning? heh. Contradiction can eat yourself Luca sir...

Dennis welcomes FIA decision
QUOTE
Team principal Ron Dennis has welcomed the FIA's decision to clear McLaren of using team-orders during the Monaco Grand Prix.


The governing body launched an investigation into the team's alleged team orders during the race in the Principality, but on Wednesday cleared the Woking team's actions as "entirely legitimate".


In the aftermath Dennis was unhappy with the bad press this created for the British team.


"The entire team was understandably disappointed that outstanding drives from both Fernando and Lewis resulting in a great one-two victory and McLaren's 150th win was temporarily tarnished," he said in a statement.


"The efficient intervention and subsequent inquiry of the FIA into the allegations of the last three days has removed any doubt about the manner in which the team ran its cars during the 2007 Monaco Grand Prix.


"The team, Fernando and Lewis, who currently are leading both world championships can now concentrate on the Canadian Grand Prix."


The team further denied reports which suggested that Lewis Hamilton was not allowed to fight for the race victory.


"The Vodafone McLaren Mercedes team has at all times stated that the team did not breach the International Sporting Code at the 2007 Monaco Grand Prix, and as a result is pleased that the FIA, following an extremely efficient, professional and thorough investigation, has confirmed that the team's actions were entirely legitimate," the statement added.


"Press comments following the Grand Prix focused on two issues; the fuel strategy and the allegation that the drivers were not allowed to race each other. The FIA investigation shows that these criticisms were not justified."


This post has been edited by linkinstreet: May 31 2007, 12:28 AM
TSlinkinstreet
post May 31 2007, 08:28 AM

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QUOTE(faris21 @ May 31 2007, 08:20 AM)
McLaren cleared over Monaco win

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You are late by 7 hours. I already posted that back in the previous page this morning


Added on May 31, 2007, 8:35 am
QUOTE(Hornet @ May 31 2007, 01:17 AM)
And yes, shame on Luca for complaining about a boring race. His TV set was probably not functioning well. Last week race was so interesting I was kept at the edge of my chair right till Alonso went up the podium and grab hold of that trophy. Lost count of the amount of moments I almost had heart failure.

Next time he should complain about other team car, maybe their flexing mirror, flexing helmet even. Yeah, flexing helmets.
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No, the reason of his complaint was that his team was nowhere near the leader. If Ferrari had won that race by 30++ seconds ahead of it's nearest competitors. would he say that it's boring? Remember that he questioned why Ferrari was behind the McLarens even tho they won more races, and McLaren promptly replied with the Monaco win, which render his complaint a little sour.
IMO, he should keep quiet and let Todt do his work in peace. I expect a closer battle in Canada, with McLaren using a powerful engine that has proven to be a revelation in Monaco, and the long straights there favouring the Scarlet cars of Maranello.

I do believe that Monaco should be left out of the calender or converted into a non championship race, where you will not get points there. The reason it's still in there is that it generates soooooooooooooo much money for F1, that Bernie PAYS to bring F1 there


Added on May 31, 2007, 8:40 am
QUOTE(young_soul @ May 31 2007, 01:11 AM)


Added on May 31, 2007, 1:16 am
ya know...I have totally no idea what fact #7 tells. FIA is supposed to "check" between the two McLaren cars. What does this case have to do with "any other car"? THE McLaren? Are they specifying on one of the two McLarens? blink.gif
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The McLaren = Team as a whole, not just the two cars. The reason that they said McLaren was faster than any other team was that they can do any strategy they wanted without impeding the other cars behind them

This post has been edited by linkinstreet: May 31 2007, 08:40 AM
TSlinkinstreet
post May 31 2007, 10:55 AM

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why? this will go on untill the end of the season

TSlinkinstreet
post May 31 2007, 11:43 AM

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http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/465477 <-- V2 thread
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