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 STOCK MARKET DISCUSSION V150

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HereToLearn
post Nov 17 2020, 10:43 AM

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QUOTE(staticxtreme @ Nov 17 2020, 10:37 AM)
i think vanguard is making the contrarian play, no right or wrong. fundamentals are there for glove

but whatever the plays everyone is making, most important is we beat the sharks hahaha
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Contrarian value investors would have bought the below before the trend started

QUOTE(HereToLearn @ Oct 25 2020, 10:42 AM)
https://www.theedgemarkets.com/article/capi...le-big-cap-2020

Based on CY2021 forecast,
Only HLFG, RHB, CIMB and Gen have the single digit PE currently
HLFG, RHB, CIMB - PE 8
Gen - PE 9

Topglov almost has a single digit PE, PE as of CY2021 is still considered low IMO when compared to KLCI avg PE. Calculations are provided below.
CY2021 NP forecast (also it is expected that CY2022 NP will be lower than CY2021)
Topglov - 6632.38 mil
Harta - 1777.68 mil

Market cap as of 25 Oct
Topglov - 71.28 bil (at Rm8.70) Do keep in mind that ESOS will increase NOSH, and subsequently increase market cap and reduce PE
Harta - 59.27 bil (at RM17.32) Do keep in mind that ESOS will increase NOSH, and subsequently increase market cap and reduce PE

PE as of 25 Oct based on CY2021 forecast
Topglov - 10.7
Harta - 33.3

XX
KLCI average PE 17 as of Sept 2020, KLCI highest ever PE is about 23 in 2019 and lowest ever PE is about 11 in 2011
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HereToLearn
post Nov 17 2020, 10:45 AM

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QUOTE(icemanfx @ Nov 17 2020, 10:42 AM)
Rising tide lifts all boats. only after the tide turned will see who was swimming naked.
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Which is why is it important to ride the wave only with strong fundamental counters. Dont simply simply ride counters like AAX, AT if dont have the guts to be trapped high
HereToLearn
post Nov 17 2020, 12:08 PM

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QUOTE(CertifiedHomphobe @ Nov 17 2020, 12:07 PM)
Cut my losses already , it feels liberating to not be a glove bag holder.  flex.gif

Total loss around -25%

Need to find different counters to recoup my losses  cry.gif

Tech way to overvalued imo. Ill wait it out in a few days.
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Ride the FI waves, momentum investors said
HereToLearn
post Nov 17 2020, 12:17 PM

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QUOTE(CertifiedHomphobe @ Nov 17 2020, 12:10 PM)
sorry but what is FI waves ?

Nub trader dunno what it means here
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Financial index, KLFI.

QUOTE(HereToLearn @ Nov 6 2020, 08:48 PM)
Hahaha bro, the economy was already on recovery track for long (you know it when BNM has stopped cutting rates). Those people keep spreading fear on the NPL.
The truth is most NPL is already absorbed by loan loss provision. Of course, operators determine the share price direction UNLESS retailers unite all buy and hold. But retailers easily scared as their capital is limited. So, when they lose a bit, they cut loss, and hence some banks have become so damn cheap, because of the panic selling spiral.

TBH, the best bank buys in KLCI is not MBB, but CIMB, RHB, HLFG based on PE.
Based on PB is CIMB
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QUOTE(HereToLearn @ Nov 16 2020, 10:42 AM)
For FI,
BIMB, similar ROE to MBB, slightly lower PB, a lot lower PE
CIMB, lowest PB for one of the KLCI blue chips, super low ROE, PE will be low in CY2021
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Dont say no jio! You buy based on your preferred choice la, dont follow blindly based on the outdated info (lagged 10 days already). Some of it has risen quite a lot, e.g. MBB, RHB, HLFG almost back to precovid price

This post has been edited by HereToLearn: Nov 17 2020, 12:20 PM
HereToLearn
post Nov 17 2020, 12:25 PM

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QUOTE(jenli_84 @ Nov 17 2020, 12:21 PM)
i tot the airasia bound cause of Tony delivery  biggrin.gif
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Smart money index almost 50% for AA, if more than that means buyers are in control of the price. For trading, ideally you want red bar to be >50% to go long on an uptrend stock - momentum investors' excerpt 2020.

To minimize your risk, buy strong fundamental counters with good uptrend momentum (might lose a bit of gains because you will never be able to buy at bottom using this strategy, but might also save you form unnecessary loss of catching the failing knife). So is AA fundamental strong to you?
HereToLearn
post Nov 17 2020, 12:36 PM

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QUOTE(icemanfx @ Nov 17 2020, 12:33 PM)
Loan impairment charges at Malaysia's six largest banks will remain elevated in 2021, with their average impaired loan ratio likely to rise to above 3.0% by the end of next year, says Fitch Ratings. We believe asset-quality deterioration will emerge, with a blanket moratorium having expired on 30 September 2020, and once government relief measures start to taper off in 2021.

https://www.fitchratings.com/

quite a number of shopping malls and commercial properties loan may default.
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There is a projected NP for KLCI banks already, i am pretty sure the analysts have taken into the NPL into NP projection.
HereToLearn
post Nov 17 2020, 02:04 PM

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QUOTE(immobile @ Nov 17 2020, 01:50 PM)
user posted image

just out today....3 banks updated TP for TG
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It depends on how far ahead do you want to project the earnings

For Topglov, estimated NP by CIMB analyst
in CY2021 = 5313m (PE = 10.2)
in CY2022 =1905m (PE = 28.6)

*PE is calculated using market cap of 54.5billion as of 17 Nov 2pm

If you use 2021 estimated profit, it is almost cheap enough to buy; if you use 2022 estimated profit, it is too expensive to buy

Source: Boon3 in Traders Corner, Gone fishing... page 157
HereToLearn
post Nov 17 2020, 02:07 PM

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QUOTE(Bendan520 @ Nov 17 2020, 02:06 PM)
You finally came to your senses.. fundamentals or not, we'll see in the long run, but right now it is all about sentiment play, heck even technical failed!
U should have cutloss earlier days ago like how I did with RM12,000 loss, rather than average down.. if I didnt cut back then, I think I'll be crying that all my capital gone just like that.

Wait till buyers step back in only buy
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From technical analysis POV, I think there will be a final rebound sometime in the near future before people start moving on from gloves.
HereToLearn
post Nov 17 2020, 02:16 PM

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QUOTE(Bendan520 @ Nov 17 2020, 02:12 PM)
RSI and MACD shows that entry point is near, within this 2 days heck maybe can enter later after lunch if you dare.
But I no balls this round, as I see sentiment shift to recovery stocks, smart money gone already, retailers are just playing among themselves.
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Yeah I agree, smart money diminished since 10 Nov

I also no balls rolleyes.gif, I dont to get trapped with counters at PE close to 30.
Will take years for the next pandemic for this investment decision to be sound if the operators are no longer interested to push it back up.

Nevertheless it has been a spectacular rise, Topglov was 1.57 (split adjusted) early this year and it is now still 6.65 (a whooping 420% increase).

This post has been edited by HereToLearn: Nov 17 2020, 02:19 PM
HereToLearn
post Nov 17 2020, 02:24 PM

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QUOTE(lowya @ Nov 17 2020, 02:21 PM)
just took circa 20% profit on ABMB
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Congrats for th 20% profit drool.gif rclxm9.gif , ABMB was not in my list
HereToLearn
post Nov 17 2020, 02:43 PM

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QUOTE(zstan @ Nov 17 2020, 02:40 PM)
uh. maybank really on steroids.
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Still have some room to reach precovid price of 8.66

Last time in GFC 2008, after BNM stopped cutting OPR, banks flew and broke all time high. Can they do it again?

user posted image
From chart, almost all banks have
1. smart money index >50% and it is still increasing;
2. with 20EMA crossing 50EMA.
This FI uptrend is likely to stay

This post has been edited by HereToLearn: Nov 17 2020, 02:48 PM
HereToLearn
post Nov 17 2020, 03:00 PM

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QUOTE(Vanguard 2015 @ Nov 17 2020, 02:57 PM)
Yes, I agree. I am too slow. Rotation play to banking stocks and Genting!

Otherwise, the profit now is chiak beh liao.  smile.gif
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Congrats Unker Van

Already good enough on your PBB.

It is still uptrending, with smart money >50% and still increasing. No need to fast let go i think

Another good fundamental bank that is still far far away from precovid price level is BIMB.
For the big 3 banks, MBB and PBB almost reach precovid level. CIMB still have a lot of room, but its ROE is on the low side compared to the others.

This post has been edited by HereToLearn: Nov 17 2020, 03:04 PM
HereToLearn
post Nov 17 2020, 03:13 PM

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QUOTE(Vanguard 2015 @ Nov 17 2020, 03:10 PM)
Sort of. But I did suffer some losses trying to goreng AT.

Lesson for the day. I am not meant to play goreng stocks. I never did develop the skill to do it and probably never will.

Safer for me to stick to valuation and fundamental. With a bit of luck, patience and EQ, this has been a better play for me thus far.  sweat.gif
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Never give up bruce.gif, one day one could be the next KYY
HereToLearn
post Nov 17 2020, 03:24 PM

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KLFI making way to 15k, 3.5k more to back to 18k
HereToLearn
post Nov 17 2020, 03:37 PM

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QUOTE(HereToLearn @ Nov 16 2020, 10:42 AM)
For FI,
BIMB, similar ROE to MBB, slightly lower PB, a lot lower PE
CIMB, lowest PB for one of the KLCI blue chips, super low ROE, PE will be low in CY2021
For OnG (but returning to pre-covid wont solve the oil oversupply issue in near term, so this one might have to wait a long time - prolly no the best time to buy yet)
Serbadk and Yinson
For tourism, hospitality and flights (not as essential as FI and OnG - prolly no the best time to buy yet),
Not buying yet, but genting is flying
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Lai, BIMB, the most undervalued bank stocks today spiked 6%, more good things to come

Dont say no jio
HereToLearn
post Nov 17 2020, 04:19 PM

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Wow all green congratulations to all!!

KLCI please go back to 1800
HereToLearn
post Nov 17 2020, 06:07 PM

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QUOTE(nauticat99 @ Nov 17 2020, 05:47 PM)
Sharing is caring. Fwd fr a friend, so no idea how to credit the author of this article. But my preference is still Smax from the list below.

RUBBER GLOVES - Preflop pocket aces & your opponent went all in. Do you fold?

It's now 1 week post Pfizer vaccine news. Moderna just came out with further positive news on their trial results. Vaccine is a good thing, we should celebrate that the pandemic will soon be over. But, how soon is soon? And is it game over for rubber glove play?

In the image attached, I have updated the latest "apple to apple" peer analysis of the first and second tier rubber glove players in Malaysia (and Sri Trang). It's divided in 2 sides, one is if we "simply" annualise (x4) the latest quarter, while the other is if we "simply" annualise the latest 2 quarters / half (x2) - an exercise to guesstimate earnings in 2021 & perhaps beyond. It's worth noting that last checked, ASP is still on the rise, as global second wave of COVID19 is happening so there may be a case to use simple annualisation on past 2 quarters.

And what do we see? We see an industry average PE of around 15x. In my opinion, this is cheap. Recall, this is an industry of which 1) we have earnings visibility of around 1 year 2) windfall of cash as deposit are paid up front to secure order 3) demand & supply imbalance that will continue to be inelastic until at least end 2022 / early 2023 4) which will lead to prolong elevated ASP level which cause fat margin. 5) Explanation of 1-4 is sector specific and if we compare valuation of rubber glove vs some tech stocks across varying value chain - glove’s fundamental is better and it’s relatively undervalued.

Vaccine is definitely a good thing, there’s a global effort to produce is as fast as possible, but even if this is the case, when’s the earliest it can be mass produced? what about getting them administered to a sizeable portion of global population? Rubber glove is now in phase 2, the part which is the most volatile. The part where the industry will be tested agaisnt it’s biggest enemy - the test of time.

We are seeing money flowing from healthcare stocks to recovery play, this is all fine and well. I personally have diversified too, but how many of those recovery play can be backed by a certain visible profit and cash? At the end of the day, stock investment needs to fall back to d fundamentals and in the glove industry, we are pre-flopping a pocket Aces in terms of fundamentals. Why do you think more than 15 players in KLSE are moving into glove? Willing to take hundred millions of risks of investment? It's because they would like to have a scrape of the supernormal profit, even if it's at the tail end of 2022. Rerating of glove feels like it already happened, but it's premature, in my opinion.

A note on glove newcomers, we see alot of daily trading volume in some of the names like AT system. Some names are being valued close to the 2nd tier names that's already operating with all relevant CE or FDA certifications. I personally don't believe its so easy to just plug n play. The profit estimates being flashed around are also taking the combination of the most bullish scenario. If these newcomers can achieve such profit without the economies of scale, ability to manage production without downtime and at full efficiency, best ability to negotiate with clients, etc - then by the same logic you should bet on the first tiers of making even more extraordinary gains on the basis of profit per glove! What I’m saying is, if u think u r rationally investing in some of these counters, esp those that had gone up a lot in price, your money’s worth at investing in the first tier counters at current prices makes a lot more logical investment.

Stick to the blue chip in the industry. If you have zero holding of gloves, it's a good time to buy & invest some for your portfolio. There’s a room for rubber glove in any portfolio.

There should be another round of selloff tmr from Moderna vaccine news. The fear is reaching the peak. Those trading Or having 0 position can consider to enter. Personal Top pick right now: RIVERSTONE. It’s trading at 12x PE & it has dual engine of growth. Just my 2 cents.

user posted image
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Demand & supply imbalance that will continue to be inelastic until at least end 2022 / early 2023 4) which will lead to prolong elevated ASP level
The thing is almost all analysts say ASP will peak in 1H2021. I definitely agree with you that the NP for the CY2021 will be even better than this year. But in CY2022, the NP will be 1/2 of the NP in CY2021.

How many of those recovery play can be backed by a certain visible profit and cash?
No one can escape from utilities, banks and OnG.

Stick to the blue chip in the industry. If you have zero holding of gloves, it's a good time to buy & invest some for your portfolio. There’s a room for rubber glove in any portfolio.
I partially agree, there's room but not a good time to invest. To short term trade, yes. Only when the rubber gloves blue chips drop to the price such that they are trading at low PEs even in CY2022, contrarian value investors will start buying them

This post has been edited by HereToLearn: Nov 17 2020, 06:10 PM
HereToLearn
post Nov 18 2020, 09:09 AM

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QUOTE(EBBattlefield @ Nov 18 2020, 09:06 AM)
zero already say byebye to gloves and encourage us to go bank...
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/5058977

his crystall ball no longer functioning.....
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After he ran awy with huge profits from gloves, never come back. big shark confirmed
HereToLearn
post Nov 18 2020, 09:32 AM

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Wah almost everything in KLCI red, good pullback entry opportunity

Elliot wave 2 started

This post has been edited by HereToLearn: Nov 18 2020, 09:32 AM
HereToLearn
post Nov 18 2020, 09:34 AM

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QUOTE(Boon3 @ Nov 18 2020, 09:23 AM)
.... take a deep breath ..... take a step back ....

forget all the opinions and what not fundamentals ........

listen and just observe the tea leaves the past 4 months ......... yes take a look at the bigger picture .....

user posted image

user posted image

.... think about it ....

and review your game plan ...... is it in sync ?
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Looks like a HnS.

Finally Mr Boon is back after leaving for us for so long rclxm9.gif . What triggered it?



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