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Insurance Talk V3, Anything and everything about insurance

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starry	Mar 1 2016, 09:29 PM Show posts by this member only \| Post #321
On my way Junior Member 515 posts Joined: Jan 2003	QUOTE(mIssfROGY @ Feb 29 2016, 10:59 AM) My agent is currently following up on this and I am not going to speculate what happened, so i have nothing to tell, but apparently i need my "current unknown nominee" signature to update my new nominee @@ i was like wtf...why do i need my nominee's signature or permission to nominate whoever i wanna gib my monies to?!! I recently surrendered a GE policy and was required to get nominee's consent for application for full surrender. Nominee had to sign a consent form before I could surrender the policy. Why do I need to get the nominee's consent to surrender my policy? Any insurance agents here can enlighten me on this matter?
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ZurichVictorT	Mar 1 2016, 09:36 PM Show posts by this member only \| Post #322
Getting Started Junior Member 76 posts Joined: Nov 2015	QUOTE(starry @ Mar 1 2016, 09:29 PM) I recently surrendered a GE policy and was required to get nominee's consent for application for full surrender. Nominee had to sign a consent form before I could surrender the policy. Why do I need to get the nominee's consent to surrender my policy? Any insurance agents here can enlighten me on this matter? It is part of the process for surrendering a policy to ensure there is a common understanding between the applicant/insured and nominee. This post has been edited by ZurichVictorT: Mar 1 2016, 09:37 PM
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cherroy	Mar 1 2016, 09:36 PM Show posts by this member only \| Post #323
20k VIP Club Staff 25,802 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Penang	QUOTE(starry @ Mar 1 2016, 09:29 PM) I recently surrendered a GE policy and was required to get nominee's consent for application for full surrender. Nominee had to sign a consent form before I could surrender the policy. Why do I need to get the nominee's consent to surrender my policy? Any insurance agents here can enlighten me on this matter? This is getting more serious, that we have 2 cases on "need nominee" to sign off the policy changing...
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starry	Mar 1 2016, 09:52 PM Show posts by this member only \| Post #324
On my way Junior Member 515 posts Joined: Jan 2003	QUOTE(ZurichVictorT @ Mar 1 2016, 09:36 PM) It is part of the process for surrendering a policy to ensure there is a common understanding between the applicant/insured and nominee. Hmm...does that mean if nominee refuses to consent, there's no way the insured could surrender the policy?
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SUSsupersound	Mar 1 2016, 09:52 PM Show posts by this member only \| Post #325
10k Club Senior Member 11,554 posts Joined: Aug 2009	QUOTE(starry @ Mar 1 2016, 09:29 PM) I recently surrendered a GE policy and was required to get nominee's consent for application for full surrender. Nominee had to sign a consent form before I could surrender the policy. Why do I need to get the nominee's consent to surrender my policy? Any insurance agents here can enlighten me on this matter? Because you don't have any money for them to cheat, for sure they want to make your life hard. If the policy has no cash value, just stop payment and let it lapse by it self. This is what I did for my policy since they cheated me. Insurance is a cheating tool created early 20th century to ensuring insurance seller have their luxury rice bowl being secured.
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cherroy	Mar 1 2016, 09:57 PM Show posts by this member only \| Post #326
20k VIP Club Staff 25,802 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Penang	QUOTE(starry @ Mar 1 2016, 09:52 PM) Hmm...does that mean if nominee refuses to consent, there's no way the insured could surrender the policy? This shouldn't be happening in the first place. Policy owner is the one who has ultimate said. This is the first time I came across such issue.
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starry	Mar 1 2016, 10:08 PM Show posts by this member only \| Post #327
On my way Junior Member 515 posts Joined: Jan 2003	QUOTE(supersound @ Mar 1 2016, 09:52 PM) Because you don't have any money for them to cheat, for sure they want to make your life hard. If the policy has no cash value, just stop payment and let it lapse by it self. This is what I did for my policy since they cheated me. Insurance is a cheating tool created early 20th century to ensuring insurance seller have their luxury rice bowl being secured. Sounds like you had a horrible experience with insurance policies. Care to share how they cheated you? Anyhow, I finally managed to surrender the policy after I got nominee's consent. QUOTE(cherroy @ Mar 1 2016, 09:57 PM) This shouldn't be happening in the first place. Policy owner is the one who has ultimate said. This is the first time I came across such issue. My sentiments precisely. It's my policy, why would I need to get others' consent to do whatever I want to do with it? That's why I hope the agents here can clarify on the matter.
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Sunny zombie	Mar 1 2016, 10:15 PM Show posts by this member only \| Post #328
On my way Senior Member 551 posts Joined: Mar 2015 From: selangor	QUOTE(starry @ Mar 1 2016, 10:08 PM) Sounds like you had a horrible experience with insurance policies. Care to share how they cheated you? Anyhow, I finally managed to surrender the policy after I got nominee's consent. My sentiments precisely. It's my policy, why would I need to get others' consent to do whatever I want to do with it? That's why I hope the agents here can clarify on the matter. because this reduce the nominee future benefit gua..
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kokkit3	Mar 1 2016, 10:16 PM Show posts by this member only \| Post #329
Getting Started Junior Member 78 posts Joined: Jul 2013	QUOTE(starry @ Mar 1 2016, 10:08 PM) Sounds like you had a horrible experience with insurance policies. Care to share how they cheated you? Anyhow, I finally managed to surrender the policy after I got nominee's consent. My sentiments precisely. It's my policy, why would I need to get others' consent to do whatever I want to do with it? That's why I hope the agents here can clarify on the matter. Dear, Once you have nominated someone as the beneficiary. He or she is legally entitled the policy benefits upon the policy holder's demise, therefore the nominee must be consented. It applies to asignee and trustee too.
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starry	Mar 1 2016, 10:26 PM Show posts by this member only \| Post #330
On my way Junior Member 515 posts Joined: Jan 2003	QUOTE(kokkit3 @ Mar 1 2016, 10:16 PM) Dear, Once you have nominated someone as the beneficiary. He or she is legally entitled the policy benefits upon the policy holder's demise, therefore the nominee must be consented. It applies to asignee and trustee too. Thank you for your response. Does that mean if nominee refuses to consent, there's no way the insured could surrender the policy or make changes to the policy?
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TSroystevenung	Mar 1 2016, 10:36 PM Show posts by this member only \| Post #331
Look at all my stars!! Senior Member 2,173 posts Joined: Jan 2012 From: Butterworth, Penang	QUOTE(starry @ Mar 1 2016, 09:29 PM) I recently surrendered a GE policy and was required to get nominee's consent for application for full surrender. Nominee had to sign a consent form before I could surrender the policy. Why do I need to get the nominee's consent to surrender my policy? Any insurance agents here can enlighten me on this matter? To answer this question, first of all we need to look at what was the problem with the Insurance Act 1996 on the Trust and Nomination as compared to the Financial Services Act in 2013. Prior to the FSA, the Policy Holder (PH) is able to assigned himself as a Trustee (a person who wholly owns and control the policy). As long as the PH is of sound mind there isn't any issue with the policy. However, if the PH later becomes of unsound mind (eg, coma, stroke, Alzheimer), changes to the policy is impossible. Changes here refers to surrender, withdrawal of the cash values (if any), re-nomination, even payments of Critical Illness requires the PH to 'sign'. This is the problem faced under the old act and that is why under FSA, the PH himself cannot be appointed as a trustee. A Trustee can be a person or an organization such as Rockwills to manage the insurance policy (or even the insurance proceeds) in the event when the PH himself is not able to due to coma, stroke etc. For example, if the person is in coma, how is he able to claim under the CI coma? Secondly, since payment of the CI lump sum claim will be paid to the PH bank account, no one is able to touch the money. The purpose of the trustee is to file a claim towards the insurer, and upon receiving the CI money, pays in accordance to the wishes of the PH in the case of Rockwills is being appointed as the Trustee of the policy. This is also why the policy with CI & Life Cover is normally 'absolutely assigned' to Rockwills. Rockwills will then execute (without fear or favor) the wish of the PH (example, pay to the spouse gradually etc) and of course when executing the trust of the PH, there is charges involved. No free lunch okay. Policies that are without the trustee, an auto trust will be created. See page 158/168 Trust of Policy Moneys. << Financial & Services Act 2013 >> Page 158/168 Trust of Policy Moneys » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « 5. (1) A nomination by a policy owner, other than a Muslim policy owner, shall create a trust in favour of the nominee of the policy moneys payable upon the death of the policy owner, if— (a) the nominee is his spouse or child; or (b) where there is no spouse or child living at the time of nomination, the nominee is his parent. Roy: It means that if there is no trustee being specifically assigned upon inception of the policy an Auto Trustee is being assigned to prevent the 'problem' mentioned above from occuring. (2) Notwithstanding any written law to the contrary, a payment under subparagraph (1) shall not form part of the estate of the deceased policy owner or be subject to his debts. (3) The policy owner may, by the policy, or by a notice in writing to the licensed insurer, appoint any person other than himself to be trustee of the policy moneys and where there is no trustee appointed— (a) the nominee who is competent to contract; or (b) where the nominee is incompetent to contract, the parent of the incompetent nominee other than the policy owner and where there is no surviving parent, the Public Trustee or a trust company nominated by the policy owner, shall be the trustee of the policy moneys and the receipt of a trustee shall be a discharge to the insurer for all liability in respect of the policy moneys paid to the trustee. (4) If there is more than one nominee who is competent to contract, the nominees shall be joint trustees and the consent for the purposes of this paragraph shall be given by all such trustees. (5) A policy owner shall not deal with a policy to which subparagraph (1) applies by revoking a nomination or adding a nominee other than his spouse, child or parent under the policy, by varying or surrendering the policy, or by assigning or pledging the policy as security, without the written consent of the trustee. (6) If it is proved that the policy was effected and the premiums paid with intent to defraud a creditor of the policy owner, the creditor shall be entitled to receive from the policy moneys payable under the policy a sum equal to the premiums paid under that policy.
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kokkit3	Mar 1 2016, 10:40 PM Show posts by this member only \| Post #332
Getting Started Junior Member 78 posts Joined: Jul 2013	QUOTE(starry @ Mar 1 2016, 10:26 PM) Thank you for your response. Does that mean if nominee refuses to consent, there's no way the insured could surrender the policy or make changes to the policy? Dear, To put it short yes.
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TSroystevenung	Mar 1 2016, 10:42 PM Show posts by this member only \| Post #333
Look at all my stars!! Senior Member 2,173 posts Joined: Jan 2012 From: Butterworth, Penang	A little bit of correction above to avoid confusion. The nominee does not control the policy but the Trustee does. If there is no Trustee being assigned at the point of nomination, the auto trust will kick in. HTH
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starry	Mar 1 2016, 10:59 PM Show posts by this member only \| Post #334
On my way Junior Member 515 posts Joined: Jan 2003	QUOTE(roystevenung @ Mar 1 2016, 10:36 PM) To answer this question, first of all we need to look at what was the problem with the Insurance Act 1996 on the Trust and Nomination as compared to the Financial Services Act in 2013. Prior to the FSA, the Policy Holder (PH) is able to assigned himself as a Trustee (a person who wholly owns and control the policy). As long as the PH is of sound mind there isn't any issue with the policy. However, if the PH later becomes of unsound mind (eg, coma, stroke, Alzheimer), changes to the policy is impossible. Changes here refers to surrender, withdrawal of the cash values (if any), re-nomination, even payments of Critical Illness requires the PH to 'sign'. This is the problem faced under the old act and that is why under FSA, the PH himself cannot be appointed as a trustee. A Trustee can be a person or an organization such as Rockwills to manage the insurance policy (or even the insurance proceeds) in the event when the PH himself is not able to due to coma, stroke etc. For example, if the person is in coma, how is he able to claim under the CI coma? Secondly, since payment of the CI lump sum claim will be paid to the PH bank account, no one is able to touch the money. The purpose of the trustee is to file a claim towards the insurer, and upon receiving the CI money, pays in accordance to the wishes of the PH in the case of Rockwills is being appointed as the Trustee of the policy. This is also why the policy with CI & Life Cover is normally 'absolutely assigned' to Rockwills. Rockwills will then execute (without fear or favor) the wish of the PH (example, pay to the spouse gradually etc) and of course when executing the trust of the PH, there is charges involved. No free lunch okay. Policies that are without the trustee, an auto trust will be created. See page 158/168 Trust of Policy Moneys. << Financial & Services Act 2013 >> Page 158/168 Trust of Policy Moneys » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « 5. (1) A nomination by a policy owner, other than a Muslim policy owner, shall create a trust in favour of the nominee of the policy moneys payable upon the death of the policy owner, if— (a) the nominee is his spouse or child; or (b) where there is no spouse or child living at the time of nomination, the nominee is his parent. Roy: It means that if there is no trustee being specifically assigned upon inception of the policy an Auto Trustee is being assigned to prevent the 'problem' mentioned above from occuring. (2) Notwithstanding any written law to the contrary, a payment under subparagraph (1) shall not form part of the estate of the deceased policy owner or be subject to his debts. (3) The policy owner may, by the policy, or by a notice in writing to the licensed insurer, appoint any person other than himself to be trustee of the policy moneys and where there is no trustee appointed— (a) the nominee who is competent to contract; or (b) where the nominee is incompetent to contract, the parent of the incompetent nominee other than the policy owner and where there is no surviving parent, the Public Trustee or a trust company nominated by the policy owner, shall be the trustee of the policy moneys and the receipt of a trustee shall be a discharge to the insurer for all liability in respect of the policy moneys paid to the trustee. (4) If there is more than one nominee who is competent to contract, the nominees shall be joint trustees and the consent for the purposes of this paragraph shall be given by all such trustees. (5) A policy owner shall not deal with a policy to which subparagraph (1) applies by revoking a nomination or adding a nominee other than his spouse, child or parent under the policy, by varying or surrendering the policy, or by assigning or pledging the policy as security, without the written consent of the trustee. (6) If it is proved that the policy was effected and the premiums paid with intent to defraud a creditor of the policy owner, the creditor shall be entitled to receive from the policy moneys payable under the policy a sum equal to the premiums paid under that policy. Much obliged for the comprehensive reply Another question, so if the nominee is deceased and there is no surviving parent, the policy owner would have to nominate 'the Public Trustee or a trust company'?
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kokkit3	Mar 1 2016, 11:39 PM Show posts by this member only \| Post #335
Getting Started Junior Member 78 posts Joined: Jul 2013	QUOTE(starry @ Mar 1 2016, 10:59 PM) Much obliged for the comprehensive reply Another question, so if the nominee is deceased and there is no surviving parent, the policy owner would have to nominate 'the Public Trustee or a trust company'? Dear, Just show death cert as proof of death that nominee is no longer here. Auto void when nominee pass away. If still want to maintain policy, re appoint a new nominee.
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-Nos-	Mar 1 2016, 11:43 PM Show posts by this member only \| Post #336
I Hate Stupid people!! Senior Member 1,770 posts Joined: Dec 2007	QUOTE(kokkit3 @ Mar 1 2016, 11:39 PM) Dear, Just show death cert as proof of death that nominee is no longer here. Auto void when nominee pass away. If still want to maintain policy, re appoint a new nominee. Damn.. This insurance thingy surely sounded like a scam. It doesn't make sense if the policy holder is still alive and not in control of the policy but the nominee has the final say. 😑 It's not like the nominee is paying for the policy at all.
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kokkit3	Mar 1 2016, 11:49 PM Show posts by this member only \| Post #337
Getting Started Junior Member 78 posts Joined: Jul 2013	QUOTE(-Nos- @ Mar 1 2016, 11:43 PM) Damn.. This insurance thingy surely sounded like a scam. It doesn't make sense if the policy holder is still alive and not in control of the policy but the nominee has the final say. 😑 It's not like the nominee is paying for the policy at all. Dear, Don't be confused. The original question is policy holder wants to surrender policy, does it require nominee's consent? Yes it does, but what if nominee pass away? Then just provide death cert as proof.
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-Nos-	Mar 1 2016, 11:52 PM Show posts by this member only \| Post #338
I Hate Stupid people!! Senior Member 1,770 posts Joined: Dec 2007	QUOTE(kokkit3 @ Mar 1 2016, 11:49 PM) Dear, Don't be confused. The original question is policy holder wants to surrender policy, does it require nominee's consent? Yes it does, but what if nominee pass away? Then just provide death cert as proof. Thing is, why do you need the consent of the nominee when the policy belongs to you in the first place? Do you need the consent of the nominee when you want to nominate them as your nominee?
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kokkit3	Mar 1 2016, 11:58 PM Show posts by this member only \| Post #339
Getting Started Junior Member 78 posts Joined: Jul 2013	QUOTE(-Nos- @ Mar 1 2016, 11:52 PM) Thing is, why do you need the consent of the nominee when the policy belongs to you in the first place? Do you need the consent of the nominee when you want to nominate them as your nominee? 1 Answered above. 2 You do not need.
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thesoothsayer	Mar 2 2016, 06:20 AM Show posts by this member only \| Post #340
Enthusiast Senior Member 954 posts Joined: Dec 2006	Simply put, this is an insane requirement. The policy holder should be able to decide whomever he or she wants as the nominee. Anyway to force a change in the case of a divorced spouse, unfilial child etc.?
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