hmm, not sure about the fresh grad part tho.
However, no harm trying mar.

What post u trying to apply?

Should be any of the analyst programmers position gua..
I have near 3 years experience to back me up but it has
no relation whatsoever with what used in any of the positions
because currently I've working experience with Delphi language
only...and i found it it's quite hard to convince any of the
HR people to think that languages can be mastered in short time
but ideas on how to do will always be in mind..

@guybrush:
Fren,...not to pour cold water lah huh.... IDE programming is fast and simple to pickup...I agree, but not pure language like shell , C ,Cobol or SAS.
In addition, if I threw one of the above defects for you to fix, you think you can manage it using Clearcase environment?.

In case SAS is new to you......
http://www.sas.com/

Well, if they are hiring Visual Basic or C-Builder or J-builder ah....ok lah..I think you can quickly get the hang of it in 1-2 months time.

I think you might also agree with me....creating and developing your own codes is more simple than reading existing codes,especially if it's poorly documented as well.

Anyway, wish you the best.

Actually I don't quite understand the situation really,
coz with my few years of experience, if i'm trying to
apply .NET position i'm still considered fresh to .NET,
but if apply graduate trainee position it's also not that
logic either.

Maybe this is the disadvantage of my profile,
do u think so finkl1?

I am confused too when come to these things like switching of technology/platform/business domain. Are we considered as fresh/junior or experienced?


Agree, reading/fixing code is not an easy job. However, I doubt writing everything from scratch will guarantee us a better quality outcome, because I've really seen people making poor quality product even worse by rewrite. Probably this is developer dependent and case-by-case.

This post has been edited by Find The Way: Jul 10 2007, 01:42 PM

I think this question can be only answered by some HR people i think..
How we think doesn't apply to them i think.

But what i knew is that, this problem occurs time and time again,
during my first job search and now then. I first thought of gaining
any experience in this field first when opportunities are presented,
but now found out that planning ur path is really important.

I got this job interview with ISCM. Is expanding, looks exciting with global opportunity.

What's the working culture like? Their managers? Benefits? Anything else that i shud know?

Can share some info so I know what to ask during interview?

@guybrush:
Not really a disadvantage for you mate. Delphi is greatly use in many outstanding application these days, even on Linux..eg: Kylix, which I assume you know.
It's just that Delphi is not widely used in Malaysia. I'm also a Delphi user.
In your case, I guess, if you relatively have no working experience in .NET, I suppose they would consider you a "fresh", but it's a question IF you really do want to learn some new for FREE and gain the work experience as well.
But, if it's all about the pay....then you should probably look at a different career window.

Just be wise in planning the path.


@Thinkertoy:
Not really sure the position you are being interviewed on...so I don't know how to give my opinion here.
Scope is basically a very aggressive IT banking environment. Major revenues basically churns from offshore Hong Kong and Singapore.

Most of the projects are demanding. If you haven't worked in an IT banking environment, then,...the "demanding" here is both communication and experience wise. The room for learning is quite small, and most of the work are challenging.

Managers differ. They are those that you might normally meet in a chinese-cultured working environment. They like to live up to their "pasar malam" slogan: "Faster, Cheaper and Better".

When I got hired, they just went for my skills. They already needed me badly for the project, and I was in need to get out from my prev company....so, the screening wasn't much except for my skills.
Pay wise is totally different. Usually, they play the hard to get,...probably need some good negotiation skill....which I lack, and they got me cheap and good.

There are alot of monthly events going on internally in each department.
If you are the interactive sort...well, you will get adjusted quickly.
Doing work with the banking people are also a good exposure, in both meeting them and talking on the phone with them.

I suppose the question here again is....when you are being interviewed by them...., ask yourself...DO you really want to work with him/her?.
So, you gotta know their expectations....If they are the sort that are tolerable for room in improvement, whether in career, interest, personal growth...then, why not?.

So does that means, if i want to apply job at work in Scope, I need to go apply Graduate Trainee position one?
Actually, what i'm interested is the exposure and the environment working in SCOPE..Even though from
what i heard from my friend was that sometimes needs to return home late, but it's worth while i think.
Am I still qualified for the trainee post? Pity this kind of chance didn't bloom out that time during my time
finding job back few years ago.

This post has been edited by guybrush: Jul 11 2007, 10:46 AM

finkl1, u've stated that the room for learning is small, care to explain further?

jz share my exp:-

before i entered scope,
1. job offer from ex-coll - RM 3K for R&D department
2. job offer from MNC company for Java programmer - RM 3K.
3. job offer from local company as AP - RM 2.5k
4. If i continue my freelance job, I got RM 700~1500 for every week.

after think & think & think...& compare & compare & compare..
I took risk n joined Scope ...& my salary is 30%~50% lower..
maybe u will think i m dumb * stupid.

Noone will satisfy for their current salary.. bcos more $$ more spend..
However, feel under pay after

1. got job offer from oversea company - S$3.5K
2. got job offer from local companies - RM 3.2~ 4K
3. i can join any of the previous companies', which gave offer before joined scope... & pay will be more than offered at that time.

what to do.. can't chao bcos of 2 yrs born..
i can't deny that scope was a good company... good ppl, good working environment....bla bla bla..
But, the increment is really low n out of our expectation... dun know why... maybe i m greddy or what..

I took my risk at 1st place.. r u ?
*what u gain at one side = what u loss at another side.
*ISCM is stand for International Software Center Malaysia.. It is not International Stan Chart Malaysia.

u kena bond ar 2 years ? i got one fren last time work for one telco bond 7 years .....

@guybrush:
if you have working experience, why join graduate trainee????...
I doubt they should offer you that, as it does not compliment you salary, unless you telling me you earn less than 2k.

work late?...YES, most projects require working late...and YES, Scope pay peanuts increment....
Money is distributed to mostly Mainframe people.....


@Hean:
For my project....yes. Most of the time, I do not have the skillset to start my project. And if you are in a project already, most of the time, you are "putting out fire". You work like a robot, while some manager give crap suggestion and make you do it eventhough you tell them it's a stupid idea.
There is no awards/encouragement given to being innovative or making things easier and better.

Again, I may contradict my earlier statement by telling you... for some parts of my project I did learn something, but that's only because I know these from my previous working experience that now I know it cannot be applied here and there.
What I'm probably nailing are new skillsets.

Any experience in Graduate Trainee in TPM?
What would be the salary range?

Babablacksheep:

DUN KNOW HOW TO TELL U..

"DUN TRY THIS AT ....."

Surely com that supporting StanChart got bonus gua as motivation

anybody can guide me 2 scope int. at crystal plaza,pj?

Do you know where is PJ Hilton?.
It's on the opposite side of the road , where there is a tall building called Menara Axis. Next to Menara Axis, there is a white building ...that's Crystal Plaza.

opposite Amarda Hotel across the road ....... and directly facing Asia Jaya LRT station ......

i found d..jst bek from there

thanks