no...know people who does...

1. Yes if you are find the right opportunity and choose to realise that value - Having a Big4 or equivalent CV is like holding a brand asset (it is the perception of skills and capability, mind that I use the word 'perception', reality can be different) - you need to able to position yourself correctly in order to get a lucrative job outside of Big 4. At the end of the day, having the Big 4 brand name is one hurdle, selling it is another hurdle.

Ultimately, what I am getting at is that you still need to sell something to get more money - whether it is your brand position or a product. When you reach a higher level in Big4, technical skills become less relevant, whether you rise up the top depends on how much business you can bring in, which is about sales.

If you expect to get your big 4 experience and hope that someone will always knock on your door and offer you a lucrative job, that won't happen very often. The big 4 brand name and the network are just tools you earn, you still need to know how to leverage them and maximise its value, which requires further effort.

2. If you are management consulting or financial advisory, you do not need professional paper. However, they generally prefer candidates with advanced degrees or those who are outspoken and presentable. So no, you do not need a professional qualification unless you are in audit or tax.

3. Generally, that is true if you are in Malaysia, Singapore or HK or most Asian countries, depending on how u define "Work-life balance".

4. Promotion in Big 4 is faster because of high turnover, and yes in good times, you get 3 to 6 months bonus.

Is it hard to get into big 4 if I have a professional qualification like acca?

Thanks for the info bro!
4. Regarding to this. I thought promotion is almost every year from AA1 to AA2 and then SA1 to SA2? Will that be a 25% increase in increment? Or just from AA2 to SA1 only?
Wow! 7 months bonus is a lot! But it is for top management only and not for audit associate?

I do agreed with what you said. There are a lot of successful people out there (be it CFO, financial controller, finance manager) have big 4 experience. At the same time there are a lot who actually quit after a year or two and they are not getting to anywhere too.

My friend is seeking for my advice recently. He is currently working in one of the mnc (which offered him pretty good salary, benefits, location is good as he do not need to jam to office, working hour is pretty flexible, good working culture) and was given the opportunity to join the finance department and at the same time he got an offer from one of the big 4.
He is not sure whether to accept that offer or not because he afraid that the downpart might happen (as in leaving after one or two year) and forego his current job which is pretty good in terms of all perspective but definitely the future are not as bright as big 4. Kindly advise.



This post has been edited by calvinmax: Apr 4 2017, 06:42 AM

Thanks for the info bro!
1. What happen if he or she only manage to stay a year or two?
2. I thought promotion is almost every year?
3. I heard that there are pretty lots of politic in big4, stressful environment and there are some people that actually burned out even after 3 months, very competitive environment too? Correct me if I am wrong.
4. My friend is seeking for my advice recently. He is currently working in one of the mnc (which offered him pretty good salary, benefits, location is good as he do not need to jam to office, working hour is pretty flexible, good working culture) and was given the opportunity to join the finance department and at the same time he got an offer from one of the big 4.
He is not sure whether to accept that offer or not because he afraid that the downpart might happen (as in leaving after one or two year) and forego his current job which is pretty good in terms of all perspective but definitely the future are not as bright as big 4. Kindly advise.

Not that difficult, full ACCA qualification is actually the preferred credentials. But one still needs to be able to communicate effectively in interviews to seal the deal.

My info might be outdated but AFAIK AA1 to AA2 is not considered promotion, just natural progression; only when associate become senior associate is considered a promotion; and then to assistant manager and to manager. So AA1 to AA2 increment won't be as much as from AA2 to SA1

on bonus, that was top performer bonus; applies to the top 10% rated staffs across all levels. Like I say I was rather lucky. But AFAIK only 1 firm in Big4 differentiate bonus payout for top performer significantly. The other firms usually just add 1 or 2 months on average bonus for the top performers

From the story you told me, if he's really happy in that MnC and the boss is the type who would give him opportunity to grow within the company, then I'd stay put. Because not all companies are like that. There are many that when you join as executive, it takes years before you could move up to say assistant manager; whereas in Big 4 the progression is very defined and relatively fast. But sometimes it's also luck, if you end up working with a nightmare manager & partner in a nightmare engagement, then you are stuck in that sh*thole and it's really depressing. But in the end, it really depends on what your friend wants. No one can decide for him

Anyway, an even more important advice is, once you found a boss who would give you opportunity to grow and shine, stick to that boss! Good boss doesn't come by often

This post has been edited by dasecret: Apr 4 2017, 09:51 AM

1. Well, I don't think anything major will happen. May I know how old is he? If he is in his early 20's, that is alright and he can try out for 1-2 years to see if he likes it. If he is in his m-d 20s, He should really decide what he wants and stick to it - if he moves out after 2 years, employers might question his commitment. I am just saying this based on my understanding of how employers generally see things, so don't quote me on that.

2. Generally, you are automatically promoted every year unless you are a manager level and above, which can be harder, unless you fuck things up. It is not guaranteed but if you are not being promoted every year at the manager level and below, something is really wrong about you and you should consider alternative career option.

3. There will be politics everywhere. The larger a team or an organisation, the worse the politics get, it is natural. I think it boils down to how lucky you when it comes to which team are you being assigned to. If you can pass the interview, I think you should be up for the job, you should trust the Big 4 HR process that you will be selected based on certain fit - In fact, it might be a good thing sometimes that you are rejected, because you might suffer if they simply take you in. Bottom line, this is not something anyone can control, no point of fretting over factors you cannot control - it is almost like worrying about getting an accident on the road when you drive, if you are worrying about it everytime then you won't be driving for the rest of your life.

4. This is a hard one. It boils down to what your friend wants - comfort and good starting pay or deferred gratification and to prove something about himself? If I were you friend and with the benefit of hindsight, I might just stick around the MNC. But not knowing what will happen in the future is what makes life beautiful - it allows you to take risk and get you to somewhere you never thought you will reach. Like I said, it is a leap of faith - sure you might fail and you end up loosing a 'better' job, but hey you are not losing a limb or your life - just suck it up and move on. I had my fair share of bad choices - I joined the wrong team in some big4s in other countries too, it was a bad choice and I moved on to another company - you need to deal with your bad choice when it realise and move on, that is all. What is important is not whether you made the right choice, it is about making a decision, live with it and deal with it.

In this case, both choices are equally okay, just pick one, won't harm - for career development wise, most ppl will choose bIg 4, but hey, i don't have enough info about the MNC role to say it is bad. It is like asking me if someone should eat apple or orange, and if the orange that he chose turn out to sour, so what? Just choose apple next time.

Hope that helps?

There are 2 schools of thought on finance and accounting. First school view accounting separately from finance. The second views accounting as part of finance.

If you are from the 1st school or you plan to work with an organisation that has that view, stick with Big4 audit. Most PLC will require the submission of audited financial statement Most FM role requires financial reporting background (familiarity with accounting standards) while senior audit role within Big4 audit requires (ISA and IFRS). If you like financial reporting then both of this option opens to you. However, its harder for senior level staff from Big4 (M & above) to jump to PLC / MNC. For example Big4 can pay a senior manager 10k but PLC will be hesitant to pay that amount if that auditor only has audit background. Not to say impossible but difficult and heavy competition.

If you view accounting is part & parcel of finance (think of CFA program), then you will find accounting is a subset of a larger finance world. For example, take CF department in IB. One of the main roles in IPO is to prepare pro forma financials based on accountant report prepared by the auditor. It’s good if the CF people have accounting knowledge but not detrimental if they don’t. Same applies you want to join other fields in finance. Think of having audit background in Big4 as a passport to join many different industry. However, if you think it's an automatic passport then you will be sorely mistaken especially if you want to jump to a non-financial reporting field and expect a similar parity in salary and career development with exception to fields that are incidental to audit (Ie: internal audit and quality assurance)

If you want to have accounting knowledge, consider take accounting qualification (Ie: CPA, ACCA, ICAEW,..) or finance qualification that has accounting syllabus (CFA).

This post has been edited by Topace111: Apr 4 2017, 03:13 PM

if most of your colleagues or superior in advisory are with strong accounting/audit background, then chances are they will see everything in accounting/finance lenses. Hence most of the advisory jobs they get will be accounting and finance related too, which may make you feel accounting knowledge is very important and your lack of it is a shortfall. That is probably true in a Malaysian business environment where businesses still look at things in structured accounting and financial box.

I will share my experience instead and let you judged yourself whether your observation is valid - I tried out audit for few months when I started out and I failed miserably because I just can't handle audit work. I moved into internal audit and survived okay but I am not really good at it too. With that in mind, I felt that I need to get out of audit because I won't make it far. So by some luck and I got into CF did few years, did pretty well and eventually went into economics and financial advisory overseas - I thrived all the way ever since. Why? I guess I don't handle routine very well and I am just lousy at checking things but I am pretty good at understanding transaction structures and dreaming up financial engineering ideas - that is just me. Had I continue to soldier on audit, I won't go anywhere because audit won't allow my skills to flourish.

Don't get wrong, I truly admire the auditors and I worked with them quite closely in some IPO work and restructuring work where numbers need to be audited before it comes to me for analysis, and their help is very valuable but I can never do their job as well as they can.

Accounting knowledge can be very useful (I have an accounting degree too), and accouting knowledge definitely helped me a lot in my job, but not everything has to be dominated by accounting. I have a colleague who has fairly basic accounting knowledge (He is from consulting) but he can work out any M&A scenario analysis and any financial rationales with pure logic better than the best-trained accountants / CF practioners that I ever know, most of the time with unique ideas and insights (Perhaps his Phd in Physics and Mathematics help?). Obviously when it comes to accounting and finance related analysis (I specialise in M&A valuations, financial and economic modelling), he still needs my help, but I am no match for him in terms pure intellectual prowness. Does lack of accounting knowledge set him back? Dont' think so.

If you don't hate accounting, perhaps you should consider taking up a professional qualification in accounting, whatever that helps your career. It is not hard, definitely not harder than Phd in Physics.

Well, as a fresh grad, it is perfectly normal and healthy to feel inadequate. You are either a genius or an arrogant prick not to. Things will slowly come! Just keep an open mind and ask questions beyond your area of responsibility - it will develop your knowledge as well as your networking skills.

Hope your dreams come true in time, Good luck!

I was head-hunted for a role in Singapore years ago and worked there for sometime. I applied for my current job in Aus and have been here for 3 years.

I did an accounting degree with a local college in KL, and subsequently did my ACCA and CFA while working.

Advisory is nice. Its much nicer than the boring drudgery that is financial reporting.

As a financial reporting person for the past 9 years... do advisory. Audit is just self torture

I believe that bro u r from one of the big 4 and hence I think that your advice is very valuable to my friend. Btw, thanks for the info.

Would u mind to share what is the average rate of increment, I mean for normal progression from AA1 to AA2?

If my friend were to join big 4 he would experience a pay cut of 700 exclude the allowance from big4. If with allowance would be a pay cut of 500. And there will be additional parking fees which is quite exp. Bcos his commitment is quite high. He is wandering will there be an increment after confirmation in big4?

He really afraid of making the wrong move. Bcos he is yet to change his department to finance. He is currently in other department in his current com and he is waiting for vacancy (whereby he do not know how long he have to wait).

His main concern is that, he is afraid that when he move to big4, he has to forego his current salary and if he doesn't like big4 and quit maybe one or two yr later then he might stuck half way. Then he is sort of afraid that in his current com the future is not as bright as those in big4 and what will happen if he is unable to change his department. He feels insecure. Hope you can provide some valuable advise from ur point of view.

I believe that bro u r from one of the big 4 and hence I think that your advice is very valuable to my friend. Btw, thanks for the info.

Would u mind to share what is the average rate of increment, I mean for normal progression from AA1 to AA2?

If my friend were to join big 4 he would experience a pay cut of 700 exclude the allowance from big4. If with allowance would be a pay cut of 500. And there will be additional parking fees which is quite exp. Bcos his commitment is quite high. He is wandering will there be an increment after confirmation in big4?

He really afraid of making the wrong move. Bcos he is yet to change his department to finance. He is currently in other department in his current com and he is waiting for vacancy (whereby he do not know how long he have to wait).

His main concern is that, he is afraid that when he move to big4, he has to forego his current salary and if he doesn't like big4 and quit maybe one or two yr later then he might stuck half way. Then he is sort of afraid that in his current com the future is not as bright as big4 and what will happen if he is unable to change his department. Hope you can provide some valuable advise from ur point of view.

Btw, my friend is currently 24/25 yrs old. Referring to ur first point. Yes. He is afraid that when he join big 4 and quit after a year or two it will look very bad in his cv. Bcos his currents job is around 2 yrs and if quit audit after one yr, it will give a bad impression that he is a job hopper.

Hi bro, just wandering I thought many ppl actually join big 4 for the sake to quit when they reach manager or senior manager to commercial for higher salary ? Based on what u said, this concept seem like not working? Correct me if I am wrong

I'm a bit too distant to comment on associate salary; but year 1 to year 2 increment is not much la; maybe 5-10%?

No one can promise him if he would like this route or not; sometimes one just need to decide and take the leap of faith

Like both of us said, maybe it makes sense to stay put given his current situation. Not everyone in Big4 turn out to have super bright future. I'd rate myself as ok ok only in terms of $$$ and prospects. But I'm happy at the work I do and that to me is enough.

p/s: there are a lot of ex-Big4 that I know who end up doing things completely irrelevant to their big4 experience. Some end up becoming entrepreneurs, air stewardess, insurance agent (there's one on lowyat), MLM agents

I suggest he stay put. Big 4 is not suitablr for everyone and i think from what i sense so far, he doesnt seem to have the mental ability to take the kind of shit big 4 will throw at him.

That will be the initial thought. If you like financial reporting / audit related role, Big4 audit experience is very valuable to leverage. If for some reason you want to venture to other field, most probably you have to start from a lower position or pay. If not, just soldier on.

Your comment are highly valuable. Bcos I have not work in any of the big 4 before so I'm not able to give him any comment on how's life there are or how things are.

My friend always have this thought that leads him to ask me a ques which I do not how to ans him. He is very impressed with people working in big4, he always has this perception that only by joining big4 he can go further in his career. He is also think that working in big4 is a very prestige and professional job that he always wanted to try out. He knew that life may not be easy too in big4. He is afraid of all the uncertainties. He just has too much concern. I think he is lack of confidence on himself. And he actually posted this one ques to me. Is it very stupid for him to reject big4 offer when everyone is trying so hard to get into it and it is not easy to get into big4. On top, opportunity only come once.

Don't get me wrong. My friend is a very determine type person. He has extremely consistent good result throughout his academic life. He always the top. He can work from mon to sun those type. He aspire to have a successful career as well.

I never seen him so lost before. I never seen him so stress before. He can't even sleep. He has lost his direction. I really wanted to help him.

I hope you can share with him some of your opinion.

Thanks!

This post has been edited by calvinmax: Apr 6 2017, 02:35 PM

Don't get me wrong. He just have too much concern. Probably he is lack of confidence. My friend is a very determine type of person. He has extremely consistent excellent results throughout his academic life. He is always the top student. He can work from mon to sun those type. He aspire to have a successful career as well.

I never seen him so lost before. I never seen him so stress before. He can't even sleep. He has lost his direction. I really wanted to help him.