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 Choosing The Right PSU, Discussions about power supply units.

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kevyeoh
post Mar 7 2007, 09:55 PM

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but my CPU TDP is 130W only wor... i'm not sure the rest of my hardware going to use how much power...

>700W power supply is kinda expensive though...

QUOTE(sniper69 @ Mar 7 2007, 12:36 AM)
Quad Core? >700W PSU should be ok...sleep.gif
*
mashimarow
post Mar 8 2007, 06:59 AM

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kevyeoh:
Quad core indeed used a lot of power, based on standard rig config(not enough info provided), I expect you are using Q6600, it required 750W, so, a 700W may be even not enough.

tps18489:
Again based on standard rig config (more device stated can be more accurate), your system only required 260W, so a coolermaster 380W is enough for your system, especially you are only using FX5200. For me, I suggest Acbel
tps18489
post Mar 8 2007, 03:53 PM

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I see. Actually, I'm hoping to get a not-so-good one since the one I was using served me for about three and a half years. I don't always switch on my PC 24/7 except if I'm downloading things. Any opinion on this? Should I invest in a better PSU?

My full PC specifications (copied from another topic):
Processor: Intel Pentium 4 2.8 GHz (Northwood)
Motherboard: ASUS P4P800
RAM: 2X Kingston 512MB 400MHz DDR PC3200 (Dual Channel)
Graphic Card: NVIDIA GeForce FX5200
Sound Card: Creative SB Live! 5.1
Network Card: D-Link DFE-528TX
Hard Disks: 40GB Maxtor 4D040H2 (5400rpm) & 80GB Maxtor 6Y080L0 (7200rpm)
Optical Drives: BenQ DW1640 & Acer DVD-16X6S
Monitor: Dell 1704FPT Flat Panel
Keyboard: Logitech Deluxe Keyboard Black
Mouse: Logitech Optical Mouse
Speaker: Altec Lansing ACS45.1
Modem: Aztech DSL600E
sniper69
post Mar 8 2007, 04:57 PM

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anywhere in 450W~550W should be allright for your system specs smile.gif
eastherd
post Mar 9 2007, 09:53 AM

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Hi everybody....

I want to buy a PSU for my new rig...
The spec is

C2D E6600
P5B E-Plus
X1960
1Gb Ram
250Gb Wd hardisk
160Gb Wd hardisk
80Gb Seagate Hardisk
Water cooling system
DVD R/W

The limitation for PSU recommendation:

400++ watts
sleeve cable
budget = <Rm300

Plz advice....

This post has been edited by eastherd: Mar 9 2007, 10:10 AM
mashimarow
post Mar 9 2007, 01:32 PM

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Search for 500W, your system required 460W
eastherd
post Mar 9 2007, 03:01 PM

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QUOTE(mashimarow @ Mar 9 2007, 01:32 PM)
Search for 500W, your system required 460W
*
so can this PSUs support me:

Enermax Liberty 400watt
Thermaltake 420watt
Thermaltake 500watt

help anybody... coz im buying one of those PSU this weekend...
Plz Advize... Anybody
sniper69
post Mar 9 2007, 04:22 PM

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less than RM300 (you stated) for >500W, i think it's impossible but not sure if in Garage Sales though...i must recommend you, fork some money ±RM450 to get even better PSU with future-proof solution, say, >500W is a good idea...no offense, but avoid Tt PSU (some model proven good, but not sure which is it), get Silverstone, OCZ, FSP, Seasonic and PC&PP (Rare...tongue.gif)
eastherd
post Mar 9 2007, 04:53 PM

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QUOTE(sniper69 @ Mar 9 2007, 04:22 PM)
less than RM300 (you stated) for >500W, i think it's impossible but not sure if in Garage Sales though...i must recommend you, fork some money ±RM450 to get even better PSU with future-proof solution, say, >500W is a good idea...no offense, but avoid Tt PSU (some model proven good, but not sure which is it), get Silverstone, OCZ, FSP, Seasonic and PC&PP (Rare...tongue.gif)
*
hmm...

I said that 400watts above with budget constraints rm300 below
mashimarow
post Mar 9 2007, 05:00 PM

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The problem is your rig require 460W, and 450W PSU is not enough, unless you downgrade the X1950 to X1600 or 7600
sniper69
post Mar 9 2007, 05:05 PM

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doh.gif, X1960 or X1950? laugh.gif... i actually want to ask same Q though...

anyway, yes, X1950 series need serious PSU ok...icon_idea.gif, or else, you might end up blown PSU or "unbooted" PC tongue.gif
eastherd
post Mar 9 2007, 05:07 PM

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oh... the need for higher PSU becoz of the Graphic card eh....???
But what if my current graphic card is X800GTO...?? will it support??
It has on board power plug...

This post has been edited by eastherd: Mar 9 2007, 05:08 PM
sniper69
post Mar 9 2007, 05:14 PM

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QUOTE(eastherd @ Mar 9 2007, 05:07 PM)
oh... the need for higher PSU becoz of the Graphic card eh....???
But what if my current graphic card is X800GTO...?? will it support??
It has on board power plug...
*
doh.gif, shakehead.gif, i thought, you're using X1950? but still you're going to need >500W, 400W is like meet the minimum requirement, your 400W PSU might be in stress
tps18489
post Mar 9 2007, 06:52 PM

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QUOTE(sniper69 @ Mar 8 2007, 04:57 PM)
anywhere in 450W~550W should be allright for your system specs smile.gif
*
It means that 400W PSU isn't sufficient for my system? My PSU was being strained before it died? Anyway, Acbel is a bit too expensive for me. I'm considering CoolerMaster now. Is it more reliable than those chapalang ones? My budget would be around RM150. Thanks. smile.gif
sniper69
post Mar 9 2007, 06:56 PM

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QUOTE(tps18489 @ Mar 9 2007, 06:52 PM)
It means that 400W PSU isn't sufficient for my system? My PSU was being strained before it died? Anyway, Acbel is a bit too expensive for me. I'm considering CoolerMaster now. Is it more reliable than those chapalang ones? My budget would be around RM150. Thanks. smile.gif
*
it may sounds weird, but i used to have Enermax FMA 350W worth RM169 to power up 2.8GHz AMD64, 3xHDD, 7300GT...smile.gif
tps18489
post Mar 9 2007, 09:22 PM

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Okay. Guess I'll be getting the 430W Cooler Master PSU. Thanks a lot for your help. smile.gif
mashimarow
post Mar 9 2007, 10:59 PM

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7300GT is ok-lah for 350W, 7600GS will also acceptable if don't put too many gadget inside with single core, duo-core needs 450W onwards and anything above 7600GT will need serious power. 8800GTX require at least 550W to startup your pc.
irangan
post Mar 10 2007, 07:33 AM

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Guys, I been reading alot of article about PSU 12v rail stuff and in the end I still confused as before.

I am not quite sure what is the difference between single rail and double or even quad rail PSU.

According to some article, they said single rail psu kinda of old school stuff and most of those latest gadget at least dual rail to operate properly as the second rail will provide 'cleaner' power to hardware.

Some article said that single rail PSU is very useful those noob like me that dont know how to balance those multiple rail.

Conclusion, I am confused. Abang sniper69 said 560w Silverstone Zeus 560w 38a single rail is very good. But I saw a Tagan Dual Engine 600w, written on the PSU, 48A quad rail, TG600-U25 and was very interested in that.

But if I really to 'balance' the quad rail, i will go for SS Zeus because I know nut about electricity stuff. So what do you guys think? thanks ya
mashimarow
post Mar 10 2007, 10:00 AM

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Just add up the total amp on 12V, there is rules on supplying high amp(if I am not mistaken, it is 20A) on a single rail which is hazard to PSU but rules meant to be bent brows.gif The manufacturer split the label to V1 and V2 such as 34A split into 16+18 which is safe for approval, but the all those 34A are supply from single source.

There are articles on these at http://extreme.outervision.com

Recently, higher gadget require higher amp as dual rail no longer enough which appears as V3,V4. I haven't check on these as single source still or already split to two, been busy on new system whistling.gif
sniper69
post Mar 10 2007, 10:51 AM

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QUOTE(irangan @ Mar 10 2007, 07:33 AM)
Guys, I been reading alot of article about PSU 12v rail stuff and in the end I still confused as before.

I am not quite sure what is the difference between single rail and double or even quad rail PSU.

According to some article, they said single rail psu kinda of old school stuff and most of those latest gadget at least dual rail to operate properly as the second rail will provide 'cleaner' power to hardware.

Some article said that single rail PSU is very useful those noob like me that dont know how to balance those multiple rail.

Conclusion, I am confused. Abang sniper69 said 560w Silverstone Zeus 560w 38a single rail is very good. But I saw a Tagan Dual Engine 600w, written on the PSU, 48A quad rail, TG600-U25 and was very interested in that.

But if I really to 'balance' the quad rail, i will go for SS Zeus because I know nut about electricity stuff. So what do you guys think? thanks ya
*
ok, i know there's a lot confusion here smile.gif, anyway... i'd take PC&PP, Silverstone (Olympia & ST56ZF) highest end PSU for instance - what in common...? it's single rail rclxms.gif, i'm not saying that dual-rail, tri-rail, quad-rail or even 5-rail (Enermax) aka multi-rail is not good, but as for my preference, i will not go for multiple rail, why? simple, multiple rail isn't good as single rail smile.gif...i'd take for an example, 80A on Quad Rail isn't really 80A, 80A on Single Rail is exactly 80A or even higher (Silverstone Olympia 1000W) claimed peak 88A. this same goes to PC&PP.

Extreme Overclocking - Dual Rails, The True Story

PC&PP - Power Supply Myths
QUOTE
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Silent Preview - PSU Fundementals
QUOTE
    *   Some PSU makers are using 12V2 to supply more than just the 2x12V or 4x12V connectors. It is often used to power the 6-pin 12V PCIe outputs as well.
    * Many PSUs marked as having dual (or more) 12V lines actually have only a single 12V line - they do not feature two 240VA current limiters specified by ATX12V v2.xx; they have only one Over Current Protection (OCP - current limiter) for the single 12V line.
    * The 240VA current limit is considered a high cost, useless annoyance by most PSU makers. If multiple 12V lines are used, because the vast majority of components now use mostly 12V, the 18~20A limit for any line means that the precise power distribution to the various 12V output connectors can become critically important in some cases.
    * The engineers point to the many high power pre-V2.xx ATX12V PSUs that had as much as 30A on a single 12V line. As a product class, those have not proven to be any more dangerous in any way than other ATX12V PSUs. Even if exceeding 240VA in a single wire run was dangerous, this is extremely unlikely to occur in a PC because 12V is distributed to many different components on many different wire runs.


QUOTE
What does all this mean? The safety benefit of dual 12V lines is questioned by the engineers I spoke with. There are many downsides to multiple 12V lines, including higher cost and the extra headache of ensuring adequate 12V current for all the components in complex, high power systems. For the consumer who is trying to make a choice among the myriad of PSUs available on the retail market today, the most practical approach regarding dual 12V lines and power capacity is to consider only the combined 12V current capacity.


i hope it clear you guys a bit smile.gif


Added on March 10, 2007, 12:40 pm
QUOTE
Why did multiple 12V rails come about?
Multiple rails came about because the EU mandated that the power on a single rail should not exceed 240VA (12V x 20A). Intel then stipulated in the ATX12V v2.xx standard that if the power on a 12V rail was likely to exceed 240VA, a second 12V rail needed to be engineered. For practical purposes, a limit of 18A was used, allowing for 2A headroom. Manufacturers replied by mass-producing multiple rail power supplies, using several types of engineering. Some power supplies are well engineered, and the 12V rails are truly separated with separate transformers. However, others draw power from one single transformer and the rails are only separated after transforming takes place. The issue with multiple rails is that the power per rail is relatively low, which unfortunately often results in the use of inferior parts.

Do we really need multiple 12V rails?
The answer is simple: no, we do not. As stated above, there are high-end power supplies with one single 12V rail that are SLI certified. These single 12V rails are rated at >30A, and thus likely build with high-quality parts. This is also confirmed by Intel, who unofficially dropped the 240VA standard in spring 2005, actually re-instating single 12V rail power supply units as an accepted standard. It is interesting to note that the Siverstone SST-ST56ZF 560W (single 12V rail, 38A) is SLI certified for Dual GeForce 7900 GTX or Dual GeForce 7800 GTX 512 MB, while its "bigger" brother, the Silverstone Zeus SST-ST65ZF 650W lacks this certification, although it is certified for all other SLI configurations and delivers 42A on the combined 12V rails. The problem likely is that it has a bit of an odd distribution of current along quadruple 12V rails (13A, 18A, 16A, 8A). Thus, this is an example where the single rail PSU is preferable over the multiple-rail PSU. On the other hand, there are many really well engineered and well built multiple-rail PSU. This FAQ is only meant to point out that multiple rails are not a necessity for a good PSU.


taken from : Do You Need Multiple 12V Rail?

This post has been edited by sniper69: Mar 10 2007, 12:40 PM

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