DNA profiling sounds reaks of ethical issues. The only good thing to obtain the right to patent is to prevent evil conglomerate from getting it first. Of course this would be naught if TPPA is a done deal.

I like my water natural. 

if it has all the hyped up claims, then why are you still going into all the same claims?

A part about consumerism is hype purchasing as well. Create the hype, but make sure they are backed up with solid-proof.

so do you think they are not backed up with any proofs and why you still use the word "claim" if they have?

Looking for a few like-minded people to develop a product, based on an idea I have for a home-based water purifier system.

Before I begin, it should be stated beforehand that things should be done on pro-bono basis. We can meet on weekends to develop the concept. To purchase materials, we can pool money together too. All that is needed is your commitment and expertise.

A short description on the idea:

Pretty sure you've heard about (and have your own criticisms) alkaline water and other types of 'miraculous' water, energy-charged water, etc. and all the popular brands that cost upwards of thousands of Ringgit (e.g. A****, C****, D****). And most people feel that these are overpriced. Not only that, many claims of health benefits are hyped up and probably false marketing. Simply put, they are overpriced fanciful gadgets that probably do not work.

What I am looking to do is to create a similar water product that not only FULFILLS the hype, but is also affordable. Above all, the product concept and all claims should be backed up by findings in research papers. In short, I believe in the power of marketing HYPE, but at the same time being CORRECT and IRREFUTABLE; in other words I want to be the underdog that becomes a pesky challenge to existing corporations' principles and marketing standards.

Also, it would be based on irrefutable health and nutrition FACTS, supported by valid research.

I can't point out the specific type or example of product here, as that would be a hush hush for now; in short it's a home-based water purifier system, just like what you see in Malaysia. There are existing ones in the market already for this particular product I am eyeing, and I feel that we can copy them, and innovate on cost and production methods.

The workaround:

There are already a few live products in the market, but they are not widespread like your usual brands and marketing hype, YET.

I have identified the necessary supporting research papers for this cause. These include: A paper on lab experiments done to yield a particular chemical reaction, also papers on the benefits of such chemicals to the body.

I have also identified the existing product (it is already quickly gaining traction so we want to be fast). Will need to purchase the product, deconstruct it and make it better. Yes, this probably infringes some ethics and IP but this is how things work worldwide; not to mention we should innovate it so that it no longer infringes on IP, but also becomes a better product.

A short background on myself:

I am not a science guy, I came from business-related studies. However, being analytical, factual, logical, and correct is my game. My work requires me to be in regular contact with senior management of a number of leading corporations in Malaysia. Not looking stupid is among the first few rules in my playbook.

I have a knack for identifying new product trends too, related to health and fitness. Something that really works, not just a fad. Well, I'm not the first to see this, but I'm definitely among the first 5% in the market do recognize the importance of something and its potential applications.

For example, recognizing blue-light to be bad for our eyes after poring through some research papers, I couldn't find blue-light blocking glasses in Malaysia a couple of years back, but now they are selling widespread here, and you can see monitor brands coming up with low blue-light screens. Even lens companies like Zeiss have already started selling blue-light preventing spectacle lens. Again, should reiterate that I am not the first, but I am among the first 5% to identify.

My next prediction: DNA profiling and associated lifestyle adaptations to perform your best would be the next big thing. (This is unrelated to the topic at hand  )

The team required:

I have identified the following skill sets to be necessary for the success of the initial stages this endeavor:

(1) Good in chemistry, familiar with replicating lab experiments, e.g.
- Chemical engineer
- Chemist
- Final year/fresh graduate with the above degrees

* Required to read a few lab papers on a particular chemical reaction and try to replicate it, as well as study how an existing product in the market is able to do this, and how to make one by ourselves. Able to work with food-grade minerals.

(2) Good in electrical modifications, wiring, systems, and a knack for deconstructing and inventing, e.g.
- Electrical engineer
- Mechatronic engineer
- Final year/ fresh graduate with the above degrees

*To support the chemical engineer/chemist in constructing something that works as abovementioned, also to innovate in terms of how to make things cost cheaper, less bulk, more reliable, and new way of doing things. Perhaps integrating other solutions in the market such as piezoelectric. Resourceful and able to work with diverse range of materials including carbon filters, plastic moldings, stainless steel fabrication, river sand, etc.

(3) Someone in the health/medical line, e.g.
- Doctor
- Nutritionist
- Final year/fresh graduate with a science degree that is qualified to comment on matters relating to the human body/health/nutrition

*To consult on the factual accuracy and validity of the ideas in relation to health and nutrition best standards, to play the devil's advocate. In future to serve as a qualified figurehead of the team as the 'health and nutrition/science' consultant.

=====

Looking forward to your replies and comments. Do refer a friend if you think he/she may be interested. 

*distasteful comments will be deleted

Note: This piece of writeup is a work in progress, and I will edit it from time to time based on responses from fellow forumers.

That's part of the plan 
A part about consumerism is hype purchasing as well. Create the hype, but make sure they are backed up with solid-proof.

I personally like being sold hype. It's like, hey... sell yourself to me, I take pleasure in that. But make sure it's something solid.

All the best to you. 

If you do succeed in future, drop us a post in here. 

I don't mean to pour cold water on you, but I really have my doubts about alkaline water.

In the smaller scale man, like, what food types work best for you, ingredients to avoid, amount and choice of exercise, etc. Related to how to make optimal choices for your given DNA/body type.

That's the thing, why stop at dieting when you can extract the whole information like behavior, affinity or other phenotypes from the DNA. A single individual has the potential to generate thousands of dollars from their DNA data. This and times 1 billion middle class people, you can create  a trillion dollar company.

Of course the DNA data can also be used to wipe an entire race of people in an extreme case. Imagine contaminating the water supply that only affect x race of people.

I've edited my reply to you above.

And apologies, don't understand your question, elaborate please?

my question was why 'step' on someone's idea but in the end intend to use that same idea you step on someone?
do you think end of the day you will not maximize your profit just like A****, C****, D****?

Just identifying a problem in the market. And to do that do I not have to make product comparisons and find flaws?

To maximize profit or not, it's such a prelim stage, will have to see.

how is it a problem to the market?

have you done enough research for customer validation?

Nope.

But there are existing customers for a similar product, which is growing in size. That's a quick reference point

Marketing and PR can be strategised later, when we do get a working prototype.

pure water should be 95% purity, crystallized and blue

I have been drinking home-made distilled water for 2 years and it's the best water to drink. So many people want to capitalize on this simple basic need.

I have been drinking home-made distilled water for 2 years and it's the best water to drink. So many people want to capitalize on this simple basic need.

better do some customer validation first.. unless you already have some huge grants on hand..

Thanks

That's because of all the hype out there that is unsubstantiated.

Let me attempt to change your mind:

The best water sources around the world are alkaline. Be it in India, America, China, whatever, they are alkaline.

BUT, the idea is not about replicating its alkalinity, nor selling alkaline-ph water just for the sake of.

It's something different that works.

I'm talking vaguely here as I don't want people to catch on the idea. 

The only good thing about these best, alkaline water sources is their taste and purity.

There is nothing special about alkaline.

I would suggest that you ditch this alkaline idea.

Get these scientists you're going to work with to research water taste. Good tasting water can wasily fit the hype of "good water". Maybe the smell (chlorine smells is bad), maybe the colour (very slight bluish tinge may infer a "clean" image.) Shit like that. It doesn't have to be actual changes to water. Maybe some light tricks to the container of the water could manifest such illusion without actually do anything to the water that has a potential of some lawsuits.

For purity, just devise some generic filtration system and youre good to go. Or just make a reverse osmosis machine, then have the machine do something about the taste later.

The rest, do whatever marketing gimmicks you want.

But, if youre looking to make something revolutionary, something that could cure cancer (or ambitious shit like that), out of plain water, youre out of luck.

Not the best water based on my understanding. But feel free to post some real science here substantiating your belief.

"Real science" is laid bare in the internet with plenty of conflicting interests at play here. The rest boils down the anecdotes. And I trust my own anecdotes.

there is no best water. safe for drinking is definitely boiled water which is efficient.

i have been workiing with de-ionized water for the past 15 years. Touted to be the cleanest purest water available. Definitely not for drinking, this i can tell u .

You might want to switch to mineral water for a few months and see the difference. No need to thank me for this.

Not the best water based on my understanding. But feel free to post some real science here substantiating your belief.

What are you working as again? Sounds interesting to me.

Sounds like what TS wants to do is let you all do the work, while he makes all the money.

chemist

If you have the idea in the first place.

If the science works, the anecdotal evidence will come in too. You can work from that end of the spectrum, while I work from this end, or start from both ends, it's the same.

If you have the idea in the first place.

So I'm right?

I do agree with your comments by the way.

And would be interesting to hear a professional's explanation on why de-ionized water is not for drinking, please elaborate

de-ionized water is hungry water. long story short, its sucks up both the good and bad. it doesnt know which is good and which is bad, its hungry and just takes in everything.

imagine if it goes in your body, good and bad both being charged into the water, so u might end up with nothing or u might end up with more of the good or the bad perhaps ?

Links to papers that talk about this?

if via WHO, there are some published papers, but u'll need to go thru scores of them. u can find it on WHO's website for de-ionized and health benefits.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purified_wate..._purified_water

Very good idea bro, its about time we have people who innovate to bring costs down and make some money along the way , instead of whining of rising costs.

I wish i had any of the knowledge required to join this success story.  Nevertheless,  congratulations on your first step towards success.

The only water that I think is good is reverse osmosis water. The main reason is to remove fluoride which I found is a poison instead of helping our teeth it actually make it worse.

As for alkaline water, it could have some benefit. As I learned from my vegan diet, omnivorous diet is mostly acidic and by changing my diet to vegan, it has become predominantly alkaline. I would not dismiss the akaline water theory blindly but from my understanding, it would have little to no effect on me as my food is already alkaline.

maybe u should post at more appropiate section....

I'm in scientific line, not related to this, but last I heard,
Ppl in Singapore n China is developing atmospheric water generating machine, basically creating water from air

There are already such companies, the ones I know are from US.

Yep, heard it many years ago. But I will find it very useful in the future if it's proliferated

done after join liao its become MLM company

All you need are a couple of religious figures who are willing to give their endorsement and put their faces on the product.

U forgot most important character
U need religious person to bless ur product

miracle water got?

just hire me and no need interview

It would be expensive I believe, and cost-viable in areas where drought is the norm, probably not going to be widespread in daily use. That's what I think lah. May be wrong as technology constantly evolves.

They need doctor to endorse the product

That is dangerous

My biotechnology degree told me alkaline water or kangen water doesn't work

Placebo effect

Try this:

Get a person with diabetes, high blood pressure or gout
Give them alkaline water but without control their diet (eat as normal)

Sure nothing will happen

Patients already diagnosed with health issues will automatically control their diets n take medicines to control their conditin.
Therefore drinking alkaline water will do nothing

lol! you want engineers to work for FREE..
Sorry, if your product is so ground breaking.. you'll consider paying at least some compensation for their expertise..
topkek..

Looking for a few like-minded people to develop a product, based on an idea I have for a home-based water purifier system.

Before I begin, it should be stated beforehand that things should be done on pro-bono basis. We can meet on weekends to develop the concept. To purchase materials, we can pool money together too. All that is needed is your commitment and expertise.

A short description on the idea:

Pretty sure you've heard about (and have your own criticisms) alkaline water and other types of 'miraculous' water, energy-charged water, etc. and all the popular brands that cost upwards of thousands of Ringgit (e.g. A****, C****, D****). And most people feel that these are overpriced. Not only that, many claims of health benefits are hyped up and probably false marketing. Simply put, they are overpriced fanciful gadgets that probably do not work.

What I am looking to do is to create a similar water product that not only FULFILLS the hype, but is also affordable. Above all, the product concept and all claims should be backed up by findings in research papers. In short, I believe in the power of marketing HYPE, but at the same time being CORRECT and IRREFUTABLE; in other words I want to be the underdog that becomes a pesky challenge to existing corporations' principles and marketing standards.

Also, it would be based on irrefutable health and nutrition FACTS, supported by valid research.

I can't point out the specific type or example of product here, as that would be a hush hush for now; in short it's a home-based water purifier system, just like what you see in Malaysia. There are existing ones in the market already for this particular product I am eyeing, and I feel that we can copy them, and innovate on cost and production methods.

The workaround:

There are already a few live products in the market, but they are not widespread like your usual brands and marketing hype, YET.

I have identified the necessary supporting research papers for this cause. These include: A paper on lab experiments done to yield a particular chemical reaction, also papers on the benefits of such chemicals to the body.

I have also identified the existing product (it is already quickly gaining traction so we want to be fast). Will need to purchase the product, deconstruct it and make it better. Yes, this probably infringes some ethics and IP but this is how things work worldwide; not to mention we should innovate it so that it no longer infringes on IP, but also becomes a better product.

A short background on myself:

I am not a science guy, I came from business-related studies. However, being analytical, factual, logical, and correct is my game. My work requires me to be in regular contact with senior management of a number of leading corporations in Malaysia. Not looking stupid is among the first few rules in my playbook.

I have a knack for identifying new product trends too, related to health and fitness. Something that really works, not just a fad. Well, I'm not the first to identify, but I'm definitely among the first 5% in the market do recognize the importance of something and its potential applications.

For example, recognizing blue-light to be bad for our eyes after poring through some research papers, I couldn't find blue-light blocking glasses in Malaysia a couple of years back, but now they are selling widespread here, and you can see monitor brands coming up with low blue-light screens. Even lens companies like Zeiss have already started selling blue-light preventing spectacle lens. Again, should reiterate that I am not the first, but I am among the first 5% to identify.

My next prediction: DNA profiling and associated lifestyle adaptations to perform your best would be the next big thing. (This is unrelated to the topic at hand  )

The team required:

I have identified the following skill sets to be necessary for the success of the initial stages this endeavor:

(1) Good in chemistry, familiar with replicating lab experiments, e.g.
- Chemical engineer
- Chemist
- Final year/fresh graduate with the above degrees

* Required to read a few lab papers on a particular chemical reaction and try to replicate it, as well as study how an existing product in the market is able to do this, and how to make one by ourselves. Able to work with food-grade minerals.

(2) Good in electrical modifications, wiring, systems, and a knack for deconstructing and inventing, e.g.
- Electrical engineer
- Mechatronic engineer
- Final year/ fresh graduate with the above degrees

*To support the chemical engineer/chemist in constructing something that works as abovementioned, also to innovate in terms of how to make things cost cheaper, less bulk, more reliable, and new way of doing things. Perhaps integrating other solutions in the market such as piezoelectric. Resourceful and able to work with diverse range of materials including carbon filters, plastic moldings, stainless steel fabrication, river sand, etc.

(3) Someone in the health/medical line, e.g.
- Doctor
- Nutritionist
- Final year/fresh graduate with a science degree that is qualified to comment on matters relating to the human body/health/nutrition

*To consult on the factual accuracy and validity of the ideas in relation to health and nutrition best standards, to play the devil's advocate. In future to serve as a qualified figurehead of the team as the 'health and nutrition/science' consultant.

=====

Looking forward to your replies and comments. Do refer a friend if you think he/she may be interested. 

*distasteful comments will be deleted

Note: This piece of writeup is a work in progress, and I will edit it from time to time based on responses from fellow forumers.

I'm working for free too. You didn't read the word 'like-minded'?

sure, but you are the leader/ultimate benefactor right?
Hope you find your wozniak.. Not everyone is as lucky as a Steve Jobs...

You can already buy a really cheap RO-based water filter, where's the market for this?

There are some issues with RO-filters.

And it is not targeted for the lower end market, it's for the middle-upper who want premium water.

Or at least until technology costs get much cheaper, then it will be free for all.

Such as?
Some of those in the hypermarkets look pretty cheap to me.
You're a business grad and you're talking about things being free for all?

1. For one of the potential problem, you can refer to the earlier comment of this chemist with the nickname FireIceCombo above.

2. There could be better water. Doesn't need to stop at RO.

3. Business studies and its corresponding reality is diverse. It's probably not as bad as you think it is. For example, heard of the social business model?

1. That's not a problem..

2. Then you need funding.. and we're talking tens of millions for research that will last 10 years or more.

3. I am not a marketer, but I think there's always a cost involved somewhere along the line.

not really interested. if u have questions u can forward them to me. i'll try to answer them and lead u in the right path,.

So the best water is the water straight from our pipe without any water filter? And then boiled it and drink? 

Adequate, yes. But best? Of course not. 

I want answer from him only Since you got some plan behind, so i don't trust you

Anyway, just wanna say to you is, it's easier to criticize and point out bad points about someone than doing it yourself

I like listening to bad points too, as I said it's important to know all the counter arguments in order to make a scientifically validated product. Just make sure they're logical and substantiated.

So the best water is the water straight from our pipe without any water filter? And then boiled it and drink? 

Not enough studies to pin the best water for drinking. So far, most scientific journals point to natural spring and boiled. Since most do not have access to a natural spring, our tap treated water is good enough and safe for consumption.

pseudo science?

There's no proof that "alkaline" water is good for you. If anything, a drop of lemon juice or milk rapidly changes the pH level of water.

Thanks for your comment. What you indicated is right as well. But my first post doesn't specifically mention the sale of 'alkaline water' similar to what we see in the current water filter landscape. May I know how you got this impression?

Nope.