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 Looking for SCIENCE degree holders, To innovate on a water product together

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TStagz8
post Oct 13 2015, 01:59 PM, updated 11y ago

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Hi all,

Looking for a few like-minded people to develop a product together, based on an idea I have for a home-based water purifier system.

Before we begin, it should be stated that we should try to do things on a self-funded basis, just like a hobby we work on together. We can meet on weekends to develop the concept. To purchase materials, we can pool money together too. All that is needed is your commitment and expertise.

A short description on the idea:


Pretty sure you've heard about (and have your own criticisms) alkaline water and other types of miraculous water, energy-charged water, etc. and all the popular brands that cost upwards of thousands of Ringgit (e.g. A****, C****, D****).

And many people feel that these are overpriced. Not only that, many claims of health benefits are hyped up and probably false marketing. Simply put, they are fanciful gadgets that people would like to own, but often overpriced and probably do not work as claimed.

What I am looking to do is to create a similar system that not only FULFILLS the hype, but is also affordable. Above all, the product concept and claims should be backed up by findings in research papers.

In short, I believe in the power of marketing HYPE, but at the same time being CORRECT and IRREFUTABLE; in other words I want to be the underdog that becomes a pesky challenge to existing corporations' principles and marketing standards.

Also, it would be based on irrefutable health and nutrition FACTS, supported by valid research.

I have identified a specific working product in the market which launched only recently, which we would emulate and innovate on and sell for a profit, as the market is still new. This particular product already meets some of the high-standards I have stated above, but can still be optimized further.

I can't point out the specific products here, as that would be our competitive edge for now; in short it's very similar to a home-based water purifier system just like what you see in Malaysia. I feel that we can emulate the current products I am eyeing, and innovate on mechanism, production methods, and final end-produce for human consumption.

The workaround:


The current handful of live products I am referring to, have brought to market a new concept, but have YET to gain widespread traction like your usual brands and marketing hype. However, they are slowly but steadily gaining ground, so we'd want to be fast.

Will need to purchase the product, de-construct it and make it better. Yes, this probably infringes some ethics and IP but this is how things work worldwide; not to mention we should innovate it so that it no longer infringes on IP, but also becomes a better product.

I have also identified the necessary supporting research papers for this cause, in order to differentiate the product and make it a winner. These include: A paper on lab experiments done to yield a NOVEL chemical reaction, also papers on the BENEFICIAL effects of such chemicals to the body.

A short background on myself:


I am not a science guy, I came from business-related studies. However, being analytical, factual, logical, and correct is my game. My work requires me to be in regular contact with senior management of various leading corporations in Malaysia, and being factually accurate is the first few rules in my playbook. Thanks to advice of a fellow forumer, a clarification: This statement is not meant to be bossy, what I meant was to reassure the science community of my character and credibility, and that our pursuit will be in good science as advised by yourself, with me giving input on consumer best standards.

I have a knack for identifying new product trends too, related to health and fitness. Something that really works, not just a fad. Well, I may not the first to identify, but I'm definitely among the first 5% in the market do recognize the importance of something and its potential applications.

For example, recognizing blue-light to be bad for our eyes after poring through some research papers, I couldn't find blue-light blocking glasses in Malaysia a couple of years back, but now they are selling widespread, and you can see monitor brands coming up with low blue-light screens. Even lens companies like Zeiss have already started selling blue-light preventing spectacle lens. Again, should reiterate that I am not the first, but I am among the first 5% to identify.

My next prediction: DNA profiling and associated lifestyle adaptations to perform your best would be the next big thing. (This is unrelated to the topic at hand tongue.gif )

The winning team, a prediction:


I have identified the following skill sets to be necessary for the success of the initial stages of this endeavor:

(1) Good in chemistry, familiar with replicating lab experiments, e.g.

- Chemical engineer, or
- Chemist, or
- Final year/fresh graduate with the above degrees

* Required to read a few lab papers on a particular chemical reaction and try to replicate it, as well as study how an existing product in the market is able to do this, and how to make one by ourselves. Able to work with food-grade minerals.

(2) Good in electrical modifications, wiring, systems, and a knack for deconstructing and inventing, e.g.

- Electrical engineer, or
- Mechatronic engineer, or
- Final year/ fresh graduate with the above degrees

*To support the chemical engineer/chemist in constructing something that works as abovementioned, also to innovate in terms of how to make things cost cheaper, less bulk, more reliable, and new way of doing things. Perhaps integrating other solutions in the market such as piezoelectric. Resourceful and able to work with diverse range of materials including carbon filters, plastic moldings, stainless steel fabrication, river sand, etc.

(3) Someone in the health/medical line, e.g.
- Doctor
- Nutritionist
- Final year/fresh graduate with a science degree that is qualified to comment on matters relating to the human body/health/nutrition

*To consult on the factual accuracy and validity of the ideas in relation to health and nutrition best standards, to play the devil's advocate. In future to serve as a qualified figurehead of the team as the 'health and nutrition/science' consultant.

=====

Looking forward to your replies and comments. Do refer a friend if you think he/she may be interested. smile.gif

*All comments and viewpoints are welcome, though distasteful one-liner comments will be deleted.

Note: This piece of writeup is a work in progress, and I will edit it from time to time based on responses from fellow forumers.



=====

Update on 26 October 2015:

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


This post has been edited by tagz8: Oct 26 2015, 06:12 PM
TStagz8
post Oct 13 2015, 02:19 PM

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QUOTE(NasiLemakMan @ Oct 13 2015, 02:18 PM)
DNA profiling sounds reaks of ethical issues. The only good thing to obtain the right to patent is to prevent evil conglomerate from getting it first. Of course this would be naught if TPPA is a done deal.
*
In the smaller scale man, like, what food types work best for you, ingredients to avoid, amount and choice of exercise, etc. Related to how to make optimal choices for your given DNA/body type.

This post has been edited by tagz8: Oct 13 2015, 02:20 PM
TStagz8
post Oct 13 2015, 02:23 PM

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QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Oct 13 2015, 02:21 PM)
I like my water natural.  biggrin.gif
*
That's part of the plan wink.gif

QUOTE(Wassupman @ Oct 13 2015, 02:21 PM)
if it has all the hyped up claims, then why are you still going into all the same claims?
*
A part about consumerism is hype purchasing as well. Create the hype, but make sure they are backed up with solid-proof.

I personally like being sold hype. It's like, hey... sell yourself to me, I take pleasure in that. But make sure it's something solid.

This post has been edited by tagz8: Oct 13 2015, 02:24 PM
TStagz8
post Oct 13 2015, 02:25 PM

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QUOTE(Wassupman @ Oct 13 2015, 02:24 PM)
so do you think they are not backed up with any proofs and why you still use the word "claim" if they have?
*
I've edited my reply to you above.

And apologies, don't understand your question, elaborate please?
TStagz8
post Oct 13 2015, 02:31 PM

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QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Oct 13 2015, 02:27 PM)
All the best to you. 

If you do succeed in future, drop us a post in here.  biggrin.gif

I don't mean to pour cold water on you, but I really have my doubts about alkaline water.
*
Thanks smile.gif

That's because of all the hype out there that is unsubstantiated.

Let me attempt to change your mind:

The best water sources around the world are alkaline. Be it in India, America, China, whatever, they are alkaline.

BUT, the idea is not about replicating its alkalinity, nor selling alkaline-ph water just for the sake of.

It's something different that works.

I'm talking vaguely here as I don't want people to catch on the idea. smile.gif
TStagz8
post Oct 13 2015, 02:32 PM

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QUOTE(NasiLemakMan @ Oct 13 2015, 02:31 PM)
That's the thing, why stop at dieting when you can extract the whole information like behavior, affinity or other phenotypes from the DNA. A single individual has the potential to generate thousands of dollars from their DNA data. This and times 1 billion middle class people, you can create  a trillion dollar company.

Of course the DNA data can also be used to wipe an entire race of people in an extreme case. Imagine contaminating the water supply that only affect x race of people.
*
I believe its already in progress on a large scale, take for example Google's subidiary's acquisition of a DNA company.
TStagz8
post Oct 13 2015, 02:38 PM

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QUOTE(Wassupman @ Oct 13 2015, 02:33 PM)
my question was why 'step' on someone's idea but in the end intend to use that same idea you step on someone?
do you think end of the day you will not maximize your profit just like A****, C****, D****?
*
Just identifying a problem in the market. And to do that do I not have to make product comparisons and find flaws?

To maximize profit or not, it's such a prelim stage, will have to see.
TStagz8
post Oct 13 2015, 02:44 PM

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QUOTE(Wassupman @ Oct 13 2015, 02:40 PM)
how is it a problem to the market?
*
(1) Many people do not believe the hype. Just look at scientifically-valid criticisms on alkaline water by qualified scientists. I want my product to be able to withstand such criticisms. This not only allows me to target a wider market, but at the same time sleep better at night knowing that my product is scientifically-sound and based on evidence.

(2) Very expensive. I want to make it more affordable to the wider market as it will be good for health, while still making a profit.

(3) Other factors, too long to type here, especially if you're just commenting for argumentative sake.
TStagz8
post Oct 13 2015, 02:49 PM

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QUOTE(Pistacio @ Oct 13 2015, 02:47 PM)
have you done enough research for customer validation?
*
Nope.

But there are existing customers for a similar product, which is growing in size. That's a quick reference point smile.gif

Marketing and PR can be strategised later, when we do get a working prototype.

This post has been edited by tagz8: Oct 13 2015, 02:50 PM
TStagz8
post Oct 13 2015, 03:00 PM

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QUOTE(ate @ Oct 13 2015, 02:51 PM)
pure water should be 95% purity, crystallized and blue
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What's crystallized about? Blue is just the visual property of water.
TStagz8
post Oct 13 2015, 03:01 PM

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QUOTE(J1g54w @ Oct 13 2015, 02:59 PM)
I have been drinking home-made distilled water for 2 years and it's the best water to drink. So many people want to capitalize on this simple basic need.
*
Not the best water based on my understanding. But feel free to post some real science here substantiating your belief.
TStagz8
post Oct 13 2015, 03:06 PM

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QUOTE(Pistacio @ Oct 13 2015, 02:50 PM)
better do some customer validation first.. unless you already have some huge grants on hand..
*
First customer is myself, as it is based on evidence. After getting a working prototype then will think of funding.
TStagz8
post Oct 13 2015, 03:12 PM

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QUOTE(xelrix @ Oct 13 2015, 03:06 PM)
The only good thing about these best, alkaline water sources is their taste and purity.

There is nothing special about alkaline.

I would suggest that you ditch this alkaline idea.

Get these scientists you're going to work with to research water taste. Good tasting water can wasily fit the hype of "good water". Maybe the smell (chlorine smells is bad), maybe the colour (very slight bluish tinge may infer a "clean" image.) Shit like that. It doesn't have to be actual changes to water. Maybe some light tricks to the container of the water could manifest such illusion without actually do anything to the water that has a potential of some lawsuits.

For purity, just devise some generic filtration system and youre good to go. Or just make a reverse osmosis machine, then have the machine do something about the taste later.

The rest, do whatever marketing gimmicks you want.

But, if youre looking to make something revolutionary, something that could cure cancer (or ambitious shit like that), out of plain water, youre out of luck.
*
My reply was tailored for joe_mamak.

I do concur that there is nothing special about alkaline in itself. Alkalinity is just a measurement of something else.

The whole idea of selling alkaline water is part-gimmick, part truth.

I am tweaking it further to be fully substantiated by science and logic. Plus those stuff that you mentioned. And other stuff too. smile.gif
TStagz8
post Oct 13 2015, 03:14 PM

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QUOTE(VanishS @ Oct 13 2015, 03:13 PM)
"Real science" is laid bare in the internet with plenty of conflicting interests at play here. The rest boils down the anecdotes. And I trust my own anecdotes.
*
If the science works, the anecdotal evidence will come in too. You can work from that end of the spectrum, while I work from this end, or start from both ends, it's the same.
TStagz8
post Oct 13 2015, 03:16 PM

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QUOTE(FireIceCombo @ Oct 13 2015, 03:11 PM)
there is no best water. safe for drinking is definitely boiled water which is efficient.

i have been workiing with de-ionized water for the past 15 years. Touted to be the cleanest purest water available. Definitely not for drinking, this i can tell u .
*
What are you working as again? Sounds interesting to me.
TStagz8
post Oct 13 2015, 03:21 PM

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QUOTE(differ @ Oct 13 2015, 03:20 PM)
Sounds like what TS wants to do is let you all do the work, while he makes all the money.
*
If you have the idea in the first place.
TStagz8
post Oct 13 2015, 03:22 PM

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QUOTE(FireIceCombo @ Oct 13 2015, 03:19 PM)
chemist
*
I do agree with your comments by the way.

And would be interesting to hear a professional's explanation on why de-ionized water is not for drinking, please elaborate smile.gif
TStagz8
post Oct 13 2015, 03:41 PM

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QUOTE(differ @ Oct 13 2015, 03:38 PM)
So I'm right?
*
About?
TStagz8
post Oct 13 2015, 03:58 PM

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QUOTE(FireIceCombo @ Oct 13 2015, 03:45 PM)
de-ionized water is hungry water. long story short, its sucks up both the good and bad. it doesnt know which is good and which is bad, its hungry and just takes in everything.

imagine if it goes in your body, good and bad both being charged into the water, so u might end up with nothing or u might end up with more of the good or the bad perhaps ?
*
Links to papers that talk about this?
TStagz8
post Oct 13 2015, 04:05 PM

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QUOTE(FireIceCombo @ Oct 13 2015, 04:03 PM)
if via WHO, there are some published papers, but u'll need to go thru scores of them. u can find it on WHO's website for de-ionized and health benefits.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purified_wate..._purified_water
*
Yeah I've got a few already, looking for more. Thanks for the link!

By the way, are you keen to provide some consultation on chemistry related stuff as per my first post? smile.gif

This post has been edited by tagz8: Oct 13 2015, 04:06 PM

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