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 [Home Appliances] Water Filter/Purifier Thread V2, Drinking Water Treatment System

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d_goh
post Mar 27 2016, 06:12 PM

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K Brand alkaline water, cost 12k, used only 9 months, trade in for Espring cool2.gif

QUOTE
user posted image
PM for more info on why it is #1 in the world for 6 consecutive years rclxms.gif

This post has been edited by d_goh: Mar 27 2016, 06:20 PM
d_goh
post Aug 24 2016, 11:45 AM

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QUOTE(davido @ Aug 24 2016, 11:05 AM)
Hi, thanks for that. Apologies I didn't mention earlier, but I don't want a separate faucet.

I'll do some shopping today to see what 3-way faucets are available in the local shops.
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Hi Davido

There are reasons why a separate faucet is used.

1) The faucet is made of fiber glass, not stainless steel.

Chrome based faucet or 304 stainless steel from a good brand although is marketed to be stable and anti rust, but when come to drinking water, espring decided to go with fiber glass faucet as it is still more stable than stainless steel over longer term. (Some stainless steel faucet may not be fully stainless steal, just a thin layer of coating on the faucet....)


2) Water stopping point, the proprietary faucet has 3 tubes, the input (raw water) goes to the faucet, when it is turn on, water diverted into espring to be processed and back to the faucet as output. This work in synergy with the sensor on espring to detect for water pressure and turn on only the UV light when the faucet is turn on, optimizing the UV light span and also minimize electricity usage.

With your own faucet, the espring is on pressure all the time, the sensor may not detect a correct reading.


NSF test reports for Grohe Blue:
Test Report


NSF Test reports for espring:
Test Report


I have equipment to do the drilling and installation, personally done many under sink installation too. Let me know if I could share some insights with you. Cheers

d_goh
post Aug 24 2016, 11:49 AM

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304 Stainless Steel Corrosion resistance:

QUOTE
304 stainless steel has excellent resistance to a wide range of atmospheric environments and many corrosive media. It is subject to pitting and crevice corrosion in warm chloride environments and to stress corrosion cracking above about 60 °C. It is considered resistant to potable water with up to about 200 mg/L chlorides at ambient temperatures, reducing to about 150 mg/L at 60 °C.
Our Chlorine in Malaysia is rather high, sometimes higher than 200 mg/L. You can taste / smell the chlorine in the water, hence stainless steel get rusted too...
d_goh
post Aug 25 2016, 12:01 PM

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QUOTE(davido @ Aug 24 2016, 09:33 PM)
Thanks all. I don't need any convincing about eSpring. I know its good - in fact, I'm currently using the Amway WTS (the model before eSpring) and overall I'm very satisfied with Amway. Even the price is very reasonable.

Actually I should rephrase my question as - how to connect eSpring to a 3 way faucet (which accepts only under sink filters)? Failure of which, what would be a good under sink filter alternative?

Why do I insist on a 3-way faucet? For space constraints. It eliminates the need to mount a second faucet for the filtered water. And you also don't need to run ugly tubes on the main pipe.

Checked out a lot of kitchen specialist shops today - and there none who have a 3-way faucet. Looks like the trend never caught up here in Malaysia.

Oh well, the search goes on for a 3-way faucet - possibly buying from the internet. There are many 3 way kitchen faucets on ebay. I might get one first and worry about the plumbing after I receive the faucet.

Thanks all for your assistance.

Btw, I also tested Grohe Blue today - I'm disappointed with it because it did not even have an aerator. Without an aerator, it causes the water to splash like crazy. It seems it cannot fit an aerator on the nozzle because the filter pipe is within the unfiltered pipe (if you understand a pipe, within a pipe). smile.gif
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Good to know that you have good experience with the 2nd generation of WTS.

Not convincing you on espring, but rather to inform you that not all water filters perform the same. Espring tested by 3rd party to filter 140 contaminants, the other brands promoted here tested to filter 20-40 types of contaminants.....

Understand your concern about the space and not wanting to have a 2nd faucet, so you have made up your mind to compromise on water quality to save space?


d_goh
post Aug 25 2016, 03:27 PM

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QUOTE(lowya @ Aug 25 2016, 02:37 PM)
for this thread to be more meaningful, owners of filters should do this:

1. Use TDS Meter to test the purity of water before filtration and after filtration, share readings and your setuphere.

2. Use pH meter/strips to test and share the alkalinity both before and after filtration.

3. infact, do the same for any other water incl water u bought from supermarket, as well as coin operated water dispenser outside.

Results should be compared like this mentioning the location of water and setup used for before and after.

Remember to clean your TDS meter with distilled water first, it should read 0 ppm, then only u test the unfiltered water tds, wash again with TDS meter, and test the filtered water. That should be the right procedure.

You know if u carry a tds meter arond, even at kopitiam or thousand ringgit filtration system, you would be surprised of the readings. Trust me on this.

I hope a database can slowly be collected through this thread and perhaps, that way we can identify base on cost whether it's worth the results. No point any products claims they can do this and that, you just gotta test it for yourself.

Enough said, let's do the test and share please.
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TDS = Total Dissolved Solids (TDS), it is only effective to measure contaminants that conduct electricity (electricity conductivity).

For instance, take a water source with TDS = 0, spray some pesticide inside the same water source, the TDS reading after that will be TDS = 0. The water is indeed not safe for drink now, but still TDS = 0.

like wise for pH test.


P/S: I do have these devices too, including a particle checker too, have done check on a lot of water sources and water filters' output.

d_goh
post Aug 25 2016, 04:49 PM

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QUOTE(lowya @ Aug 25 2016, 04:04 PM)
i am talking about effectiveness of filtration purpose, that's why inviting owner to test before and after results.

i am not talking about a contaminated water scenario like how you deviated the purpose of my post.

There are hundreds of way to test water, the general method accessible to public is using TDS meter to test PPM results with distill water calibration. There are 2 groups on this thread, one who sell and one who consume only. Any bias respond can easily identify which group are the from.

also, any owner who spend rm1k above on filters (like i seen many here) and do not have a TDS meter don't do themselves any justice. Go get one.
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It is not to deviate the purpose of your post, it is to tell that TDS is not an effective test to justify the scenario.



To give the insights, TDS meter measures the concentration of dissolved solid particles and the reading unit is PPM.

QUOTE
Dissolved ionized solids, such as salts and minerals, increase the electrical conductivity (EC) of a solution. Because it is a volume measure of ionized solids, EC can be used to estimate TDS.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TDS_meter


This is how TDS meter gets it reading, it measure the conductivity of the water...get your facts right before you suggest that is the way to test water.


TDS = 0 only means zero conductivity, doesn't mean the water is clean. Whereas a water with high TDS, take Evian mineral water for an example, you cannot say it is not safe.

This post has been edited by d_goh: Aug 25 2016, 04:57 PM
d_goh
post Sep 22 2016, 01:06 PM

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QUOTE(zheilwane @ Sep 22 2016, 11:15 AM)
lol, i m not an expert but i know a little more compared to end user only smile.gif I believe if a customer is willing to spend time to read all the discussion thread and all the shared links in the past such as wikipedia, WHO report, NSF report, they will know as much as me also smile.gif

I am also an AMWAY member, i can sell it here as well even below member price but i choose not to because i cant provide the good service like others who are really dedicated to sell it, hence i only focus and sell Aquaphor. I have by main business and i spent most of my time providing good service for all of my products and therefore i do not have time to cover Amway. Yes, i can sell and make profit but if i cant provide the service, customers will complain and it will be bad for my online reputation which has been good for about 8 years

So, my advise if you are planning to get Amway, get it from a serious seller who is able to provide good after sales service. How to know is reliable or not? we wont be able to tell until we purchase. For me, how i gauge a person's service, c how quick he response to your queries, how much does he knows about the product and look back as his history replies in forum.

For those who are looking premium quality filter yet affordable, can get Aquaphor from me. Guarantee the after sales from me is definitely good as i m always focus with my products smile.gif
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LOL, quite modest of you to made a bold statement and then quickly cover up with that line smile.gif

As an AMWAY member, you should really try espring, NSF test reports (details one) shows it is far more capable than other water filters out there. Of course that will be against your best interest since you run your own water filter business...but when come to own consumption, why compromise for that?

Passing NSF is not the thing to look for, the contaminants list is the one to look for in NSF test reports.

My last studies show that Aquaphor test report filter about 20-30 types of contaminants vs AMWAY one 140 types, in that comparison, the cost per number of effectively removal of contaminants, Aquaphor becomes really expensive.


Certainly after sales service is important, a water filter is bought for use for at least 10 years or even longer....after sales is very important, and water quality also is very important, don't compromise for any of that.

d_goh
post Sep 23 2016, 10:30 AM

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QUOTE(zheilwane @ Sep 22 2016, 05:12 PM)
AMWAY tested for 140 types of things, there are many brands that have nsf also didnt test for so many types. Question is, does our water have all these 140 types of contaminants?

I must agree most NSF reports for other brands do not have such a long list compared to Amway, most of them are very little only. From what i know, there are certain items to test for Standard 42 n 53, if u wan to test additional item not in the package u need more $$ but most brands would not pay for the extra $$ to test.

As per our local MOH requirement to test 42 items, we TESTED AQUAPHOR based on malaysia water quality and report shows that the result is very much better compared to the standards required
http://aquaphor.com.my/crystal-eco
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There are a lot of assumptions to make there, saying whatever the other contaminants not filtered by Aquaphor is not present in the water...

"we" you are referring here is who ah? yourself? where is your lab? As far as the tests about aquaphor posted here are all home based, and the post about you testing other filters, are all home based.

When asked for NSF test report, the reply given is crystal eco purposely sent to to be tested by LGA, not sent to NSF for test....where as model DWM101 is found on NSF website...A lot of twisting here and there...Same brand, one model found on NSF, the Crystal Eco not found, the reply given by you = got special reason not sent to NSF for test, because NSF is US based...Aquaphor is based in Russia...bla bla bla .... rclxub.gif


Then who is LGA? about

QUOTE
We are a politically-led, cross-party organisation that works on behalf of councils to ensure local government has a strong, credible voice with national government. We aim to influence and set the political agenda on the issues that matter to councils so they are able to deliver local solutions to national problems.


LGA is not even an accredited body to perform water filter test. It is like a car tested by a non car organization and claim the car it can perform up to standard, very safe...bla bla bla. Really rclxub.gif


Test result not transparent, certification by non accredited body, that is premium?

Once again i have to repeat that i do agree Aquaphor is affordable...but premium, really no facts to back up this part of the story.

Aquaphor test report @ NSF: [Only DWM 101 and the facility is Russia also]
Test Reports
- TDS Reduction (The baseline test used for RO Water Filter)


d_goh
post Sep 23 2016, 04:31 PM

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QUOTE(zheilwane @ Sep 23 2016, 03:34 PM)
Dear D_Goh, we have debated on the LGA previously, why would you wan to bring up the same thing and give a wrong website to deceive people.

With Carbon Block Technology similar to Espring, 0.1 hollow fibre membrane better than 0.2 micron Espring, you trying to say my filter is not fit to say it is premium water quality? What logic is this.

Local labtest report was done by a local MOH accredited lab, report also given in my website. How could you say home test.
http://aquaphor.com.my/sites/default/files/laboratory_0.pdf

Here is the explanation for those who wanna read
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3615495/+20

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


FEEL FREE TO COME and take a water sample and test if you want.
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Yes pointing out you are really good at twisting words left right front back.

I sell more espring offline than in LYN, that's why i decided not to post as often as other forumers here but when I come back, really can't stand it when you start directing the readers in ways to believe in those twists.

QUOTE
Assumption #1 : What not filtered by aquaphor Eco Crystal won't be present in water
>> So you avoided this point....just directed everyone attention 0.1 is sure more superior....

TTHM, THM is not in the list too...so why 0.2 can filter, 0.1 cannot filter? and then 0.1 is premium?

Why I keep telling everyone refer back to NSF is the safest is because there are twist like this out there. NSF conduct their test based on aged filters and cartridges, they test UV by testing at its end of life (make sure the UV light still capable to perform).


QUOTE
Assumption #2 :  Espring high profit...then said you know many people under cut prices...then you said you can get 14 and do the same
>> this point shows that you know really well how much the profit margin is and it is not high at all, with the rebate going to customer, someone make not more than 15% of the selling price....yet you talked like Tai Kor here spreading false info.

You were really professional back then, this certain change in behavior and suddenly making false claims about Espring is really intriguing...So a few prospects who inquired about aquaphor suddenly jumped ship to buy espring, put you on your nerve to spread false claims?


Thank you for the invite, I thought you'd never ask....Yes, why not make a date, a few of us all go your shop, I bring my particle checker and we examine your water? We want to test an aged filter, a cartridge towards its end of life and see how it perform. Could you stand by 1?


Which date others want to go together? I am open for suggestion.


This post has been edited by d_goh: Sep 23 2016, 04:32 PM
d_goh
post Sep 23 2016, 04:52 PM

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Micron Size

False claims about the filtration capabilities of filters in terms of micron size are everywhere. In fact, you rarely see websites that reflect the truth.

The word MICRON is used by the industry to describe the size of particles that a filter will eliminate from water. There are two words to describe the filtration capability of a filter…one is ABSOLUTE….the other is NOMINAL. Absolute is a definition that means a filter will remove absolutely every particle above the stated micron size. In other words, an Absolute filter does what you assume it will do. For example, a 1 micron filter will remove anything larger than 1 micron. A nominal designation means that a filter will nominally remove particulate down to the stated size. What that means is that a 1 micron filter can remove particulate as small as 1 micron, but it is just as likely to allow particles that are 2-3 microns or even 5 microns pass through.

Unless you read the word ABSOLUTE when it comes to micron capability, assume the filter is referring to NOMINAL.


Taken from: http://www.waterfyi.com/uncategorized/filt...er-performance/
d_goh
post Sep 26 2016, 10:34 AM

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zheilwane, still continue to twist and avoid answering your assumptions?

QUOTE
Assumption #1 : What not filtered by aquaphor Eco Crystal won't be present in water


>> your long post not addressing this at all

>> By implying not filtered by aquaphor won't present in water, is not twisting?


QUOTE
Assumption #2 :  Espring high profit...then said you know many people under cut prices...then you said you can get 14 and do the same


>> So daring that you made assumptions like this while knowing the profit is max out at 15% only...(you already spilled the pills when you said 14 units...)

>> A distributor selling 14 units a month only make max 15%, those who don't, make less than 15%, some only 3% to 9% profit, so which part of that is high profit?

>> So this is not twisting? What else is twisting?


if not twisting why typed so much and not addressing the 2 things posted earlier? You are really keyboard warrior, typed a lot talking about other things, compare X brand, shared video, You really good in doing advertisements...

You say you not twisting you not twisting loh doh.gif



d_goh
post Sep 26 2016, 10:48 AM

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QUOTE(echoesian @ Sep 26 2016, 12:27 AM)
So is your outdoor filter now is using those membrane type with 0.01 micron? Brands like wateq, hydro1, etc??

I'm also using a membrane 0.01 micron outdoor filter now. So far so good, I think it has been more than 10 years already, have changed the filter few times already. The only issue is that the water pressure is being reduced once it pass through the filter.

I'm looking for a better alternative now.
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0.01 micron for an outdoor filter (POE = Point of Entry) is usually not recommended, as it also remove chlorine from the water that enters your home which you wish to all the Chlorine to go to your water tank to continue to have the benefits of chlorine as a very cost effective anti bacterial agent.

(1) Some ppl who have used membrane type with 0.01 micron as POE for a long time, experience algae growing in the water tank and causing a lot of problems in the piping.

(2) Some membrane type POE filter got problem after 1-2 years of usage in areas with higher water pressure.


For POE, sand based water filter are more suitable, mostly due to reason (1).

When come to POU (Point Of Usage), you want to remove all the cholorine, heavy metal, VOC, TTHM, lead, mercury, Benzene...a long list of contaminants.

Do watch out for microcystin too, something new that by boiling water to 300 C won't remove it still...this is new standard published in April 2016.

This post has been edited by d_goh: Sep 26 2016, 10:52 AM
d_goh
post Sep 29 2016, 10:42 AM

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so who is coming?

Adjust time to 12pm. won't be free at 1030am

I won't be there if no other forumer coming, no point argue with words twister.
d_goh
post Sep 29 2016, 12:39 PM

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QUOTE(aeiou228 @ Sep 29 2016, 11:52 AM)
Insisting on other forumer to come a long is going to be difficult. It's like calling off the challenge.
I don't think forumers who has no direct interest whatsoever with the products would want to spend time and involve in this.
This challenge is between Amway and Aquaphor, just go there, do the test, take video, 10min kaodim. Then post the video to YouTube and share the link here.
Come on Amway, steady, your eSpring is discussed here extensively, don't disappoint your followers.
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So you coming?
d_goh
post Sep 29 2016, 02:49 PM

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QUOTE(IceBikers @ Sep 29 2016, 01:59 PM)
it will be great challenge, the result would do good for consumer, however it is a product comparison, don't take it personally no matter what is the result.

Result is cruel, reading is cruel, the losing 1 doesn't mean it is a bad product.
As long as the reading is above recommendation then it is fine.

and have to understand each individual has own believe and preferences.
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Well i don't understand why the other end make it personal in the first place to attack amway brand specifically about service, high profit...etc etc



It is not even a challenge between Amway and Aquaphor.

Just 2 distributors of the 2 different brands.

zheilwane made it personal bashing Amway in the recent posts, made false claims that Amway is high profit...bla bla bla...service no good...Those claim not made by Aquaphor but by himself

I pointed out he knew it is not high profit, showed that max is only 15% margin, he still insist high profit...bla bla bla...while many other distributors made only 3%-9% margin only in this forum.

When pointed out showed Amway filter 140 types of contaminants (Test Report by NSF), aquaphor only around 30 (report shown by zheilwane)

His question "will those all 140 types present in water?" implying they won't present...

>> point out why twist like that....first round avoided the question
>> point out again...then came all the bashing liao, said I am twisting

>> notice he modified his own posts.... posted on 22 Sep, later modified again on 25 Sep
Modified Post


Very tired talking to someone like that...

I will be there to test, why ask for other forumers to join, you guys be the eye witness...no eye witness that's it... I have better agenda, I have a property preview to attend instead of this.


d_goh
post Sep 29 2016, 02:52 PM

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QUOTE(zheilwane @ Sep 22 2016, 05:12 PM)
AMWAY tested for 140 types of things, there are many brands that have nsf also didnt test for so many types. Question is, does our water have all these 140 types of contaminants?

I must agree most NSF reports for other brands do not have such a long list compared to Amway, most of them are very little only. From what i know, there are certain items to test for Standard 42 n 53, if u wan to test additional item not in the package u need more $$ but most brands would not pay for the extra $$ to test.

As per our local MOH requirement to test 42 items, we TESTED AQUAPHOR based on malaysia water quality and report shows that the result is very much better compared to the standards required
http://aquaphor.com.my/crystal-eco
"Active charcoal carbon filters are most effective at removing chlorine, sediment, volatile organic compounds (VOCs), taste and odor from water"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_filtering

[attachmentid=7603002]

FYI, just VOC alone already consist about 50 contaminants. Aquaphor Crystal Eco drinking water is using carbon block + hollow fibre membrane. Any filters using carbon block can already minimum filter more than 50 types of contaminants. So, with Carbon BLock + 0.1 micron hollow fibre membrane, Aquaphor can easily filter more than 100 types of contaminants. However, how many types are in our water? Our Local MOH only suggest to test 42 items even to pass NSF standards 42 & 53, we dont have to test 100 items. Yes, Amway did a good job in testing 140 items but not tested for 100 over items doenst mean Aquaphor water filter is not good, if you know what media is used and the quality of the media, a filter expert like you can tell what the filter is capable off but it seems like you are trying to confuse readers

Regular filter use granular carbon only, compared to that we are using high quality carbon blocks (very thick with Aqualen) + Hollow fibre membrane, why cant i say Aquaphor is premium water filtration system?
I have to emphasize again, i do agree Awmays - Espring is a good filter and never suggest Aquaphor is better but it is affordable and yet providing high quality water filtration.

You sound like a water expert, you should know this and why still try to mislead forumers Aquaphor only filter 20 - 30 types of contaminants.
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MOH Recommended List:
List is not 42 items

The list got 90 items. TTHM & THM are in the list, your test report didn't have TTHM & THM in the list...and a lot of other items not in the list

http://kmam.moh.gov.my/public-user/drinkin...y-standard.html


Active Carbon (AKA Activated Carbon) vs Carbon (Normal) vs Granular Carbon (powder form)

If you can't tell the difference, i don't mind you. But openly implying your carbon is the same as activated carbon, obviously you are the one misleading the consumer here.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Activated_carbon


 

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