Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

[ Standard ] · Linear+

> Mix Development and Short Term Rental, daily rental

views
     
TSCasLatency
post Jun 19 2015, 07:51 AM, updated 6y ago

New Member
*
Junior Member
11 posts

Joined: Jul 2009
From: China,Shen Zhen
Hi Greeting to all member,

I have recently bought a mix development condo and I realize there are owners doing Short Term Rental (Daily Renting) and I wonder is this legal? do they have the rights to do so? we are residents staying there, those owners that are renting out for daily have cause the residents many problem this including renting out a 2 bedroom apartment to more then 10 people mad.gif and during holiday time you can see many people coming in and out of the condo. vmad.gif and occupying the facility.

Anyone that have similar problem? how do you deal with the management and the authority to stop it? Please share your knowledge and experience. very much appreciated thanks. biggrin.gif

Regards
Cas

This post has been edited by CasLatency: Jun 19 2015, 09:49 AM
TSCasLatency
post Jun 19 2015, 08:13 AM

New Member
*
Junior Member
11 posts

Joined: Jul 2009
From: China,Shen Zhen
Hello any advise?
linkor
post Jun 19 2015, 08:17 AM

Enthusiast
*****
Senior Member
821 posts

Joined: Apr 2013
Condo or service apartment ??

May be you can try complaint to management ??
NikAriff
post Jun 19 2015, 08:29 AM

New Member
*
Junior Member
11 posts

Joined: Jun 2015
Basically all Mix Development is by nature are Service Apartment anything that build upon a commercial land falls under that category,is a recent trend by developer who are building condominium on commercial land or above shopping centers have being using term like Service Residence, Service Suite etc to market their property, it is just a marketing term which is misleading, under the present legislation, service apartments and condominiums adjoining shopping malls fall outside the category of residence.

According to National Property Information Center(NAPIC) report under section 3 The Housing Development (Control and Licensing) Act 1966 (as amended 2002):

1)serviced apartments which is defined as short-term accommodation either owned by an individual as a second home, as corporate housing or as an investment that maybe run as a hotel.

2) The owner may occupy the unit himself or elect a management company to rent the unit on a daily, weekly, monthly, yearly or timesharing basis.

So by law it is legal to rent out their apartment on daily basis and renting out apartment run by individual owners are consider residential use not commercial use where by commercial use is running a laundry, office or mini market etc.

Hope this clarify your question.



cherroy
post Jun 19 2015, 08:29 AM

20k VIP Club
Group Icon
Staff
25,552 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penang


It is illegal to turn residential property into commercial activities (as daily rent hotel), whereby one can lodge the report with local council and COB.

You may refer and join into previous thread that talk about similar issue, but that was on residential property.
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2353137/all


This post has been edited by cherroy: Jun 19 2015, 08:31 AM
cherroy
post Jun 19 2015, 08:33 AM

20k VIP Club
Group Icon
Staff
25,552 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penang


QUOTE(NikAriff @ Jun 19 2015, 08:29 AM)
Basically all Mix Development is by nature are Service Apartment anything that build upon a commercial land falls under that category,is a recent trend by developer who are building condominium on commercial land or above shopping centers have being using term like Service Residence, Service Suite etc to market their property, it is just a marketing term which is misleading, under the present legislation, service apartments and condominiums adjoining shopping malls fall outside the category of residence.

According to National Property Information Center(NAPIC) report under section 3 The Housing Development (Control and Licensing) Act 1966 (as amended 2002):

1)serviced apartments which is defined as short-term accommodation either owned by an individual as a second home, as corporate housing or as an investment that maybe run as a hotel.

2) The owner may occupy the unit himself or elect a management company to rent the unit on a daily, weekly, monthly, yearly or timesharing basis.

So by law it is legal to rent out their apartment on daily basis and renting out apartment run by individual owners are consider residential use not commercial use where by commercial use is running a laundry, office or mini market etc.

Hope this clarify your question.
*
Mix development (downstair commercial, upstair residential) is not the same with service apartment.

Mix development that upstair is residential property one is still under residential category, if not mistaken.

TSCasLatency
post Jun 19 2015, 08:35 AM

New Member
*
Junior Member
11 posts

Joined: Jul 2009
From: China,Shen Zhen
Hi Thanks for quick response and advise, hi NikAriff do you mean, Mix Development are able to do that we cannot stop it?

And cherroy on the other side what is COB? where to I go and file the complaints?
NikAriff
post Jun 19 2015, 08:45 AM

New Member
*
Junior Member
11 posts

Joined: Jun 2015
QUOTE(cherroy @ Jun 19 2015, 08:33 AM)
Mix development (downstair commercial, upstair residential) is not the same with service apartment.

Mix development that upstair is residential property one is still under residential category, if not mistaken.
*
Hi Good Day, yes it is by nature all mix development falls under the term Service no matter which term it use Service Residence/Apartment/Suite etc, and another thing is Home Stay are difference from Short Term Accommodation, Home Stay is where by you need to register with the Ministry Of Tourism and you get an agent ID, you invite the guest from overseas to stay with you while you show them the local culture on the other side Short Term Accommodation run by individual owner are differ they do not stay with the tenants do not show them the culture and renting out for stay is consider a residential use not commercial use.

You cannot build a residential apartment on a commercial land and if the apartment on top of a mix development are consider residential it mean there are another piece of land on top of the commercial land, because residential property can only be build on a residential land and you cannot have a land on top of another land.

Hope this clarify out.

This post has been edited by NikAriff: Jun 19 2015, 08:47 AM
TSCasLatency
post Jun 19 2015, 08:59 AM

New Member
*
Junior Member
11 posts

Joined: Jul 2009
From: China,Shen Zhen
QUOTE(NikAriff @ Jun 19 2015, 08:45 AM)
Hi Good Day, yes it is by nature all mix development falls under the term Service no matter which term it use Service Residence/Apartment/Suite etc, and another thing is Home Stay are difference from Short Term Accommodation, Home Stay is where by you need to register with the Ministry Of Tourism and you get an agent ID, you invite the guest from overseas to stay with you while you show them the local culture on the other side Short Term Accommodation run by individual owner are differ they do not stay with the tenants do not show them the culture and renting out for stay is consider a residential use not commercial use.

You cannot build a residential apartment on a commercial land and if the apartment on top of a mix development are consider residential it mean there are another piece of land on top of the commercial land, because residential property can only be build on a residential land and you cannot have a land on top of another land.

Hope this clarify out.
*
Hi Nik can we ask the Committee to call for a meeting with all residents agreement and implement a rules to stop the short term rental?
puchongite
post Jun 19 2015, 09:00 AM

10k Club
********
All Stars
19,675 posts

Joined: May 2008
QUOTE(NikAriff @ Jun 19 2015, 08:29 AM)
Basically all Mix Development is by nature are Service Apartment anything that build upon a commercial land falls under that category,is a recent trend by developer who are building condominium on commercial land or above shopping centers have being using term like Service Residence, Service Suite etc to market their property, it is just a marketing term which is misleading, under the present legislation, service apartments and condominiums adjoining shopping malls fall outside the category of residence.

According to National Property Information Center(NAPIC) report under section 3 The Housing Development (Control and Licensing) Act 1966 (as amended 2002):

1)serviced apartments which is defined as short-term accommodation either owned by an individual as a second home, as corporate housing or as an investment that maybe run as a hotel.

2) The owner may occupy the unit himself or elect a management company to rent the unit on a daily, weekly, monthly, yearly or timesharing basis.
I agree with you up to here

QUOTE
So by law it is legal to rent out their apartment on daily basis and renting out apartment run by individual owners are consider residential use not commercial use where by commercial use is running a laundry, office or mini market etc.

Hope this clarify your question.
*
It's this conclusion which I disagree. wink.gif

The custom document clearly states out that short term stay or daily use is commercial use.

Only long term stay ( eg yearly contract ) in serviced apartment is considered residential use.

Then the question is who to decide whether short term stay is allowed or disallowed ?

The law allows serviced apartment to be used both for short term and long term stay. But I think typically the management office for long term stay they disallow owner run short term stay in it.
cherroy
post Jun 19 2015, 09:05 AM

20k VIP Club
Group Icon
Staff
25,552 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penang


QUOTE(CasLatency @ Jun 19 2015, 08:59 AM)
Hi Nik can we ask the Committee to call for a meeting with all residents agreement and implement a rules to stop the short term rental?
*
You can't set a by law that restrict individual owner to do on their property.

If the renting indeed violated the council rule (please read the old thread that I mentioned before about the running an illegal commercial activities without local council license), then you can report the matter to the local council.

The law is weak and plenty of grey area to tackle such an issue.
NikAriff
post Jun 19 2015, 09:07 AM

New Member
*
Junior Member
11 posts

Joined: Jun 2015
QUOTE(CasLatency @ Jun 19 2015, 08:59 AM)
Hi Nik can we ask the Committee to call for a meeting with all residents agreement and implement a rules to stop the short term rental?
*
Yes you can ask your JMB/JMC to call for a AGM/EGM and get all owners consent to agree to implement a rules to stop the short term rental, but you need refer to your SPA, if you SPA is do not contain Schedule H then there is an issue it mean is not residential, some Mix Development that come with hotel do have rules in the SPA that owners cannot do Short Term Rental and that is difference cases, if your SPA do not have such rule and by implementing a rule to stop the STR by law is illegal it self and if the owners want to SUE the JMB they will have sufficient evidence to bring them to court, in this case the committee are still able to make new rules but they have to get the consent of all the unit owners mean if you have 500 unit you need to have 500 signature to agree and implement it to prevent legal action from owners that run STR.
puchongite
post Jun 19 2015, 09:10 AM

10k Club
********
All Stars
19,675 posts

Joined: May 2008
QUOTE(cherroy @ Jun 19 2015, 09:05 AM)
You can't set a by law that restrict individual owner to do on their property.

If the renting indeed violated the council rule (please read the old thread that I mentioned before about the running an illegal commercial activities without local council license), then you can report the matter to the local council.

The law is weak and plenty of grey area to tackle such an issue.
*
I tend to think the committee and/or management office has an upper hand over it because running short term stay is clearly a commercial activity, it will incur additional work/trouble for the management office to manage. So it's only right that people need to get blessing from management office if they want to run commercial activity in a serviced apartment.
aurora97
post Jun 19 2015, 09:13 AM

I Didn't get the Memo
*******
Senior Member
3,392 posts

Joined: Aug 2007



Am not familiar with mix development...

Very interesting questio by TS....

My question though... Mixed dev or service apt/Condo sit on commercial land and has a commercial title to the parcel, if I can a business (making it into an office) from my apt/Condo, what's stopping me from short term renting?

What's the purpose of service apt/Condo in the first place???
aurora97
post Jun 19 2015, 09:16 AM

I Didn't get the Memo
*******
Senior Member
3,392 posts

Joined: Aug 2007



QUOTE(cherroy @ Jun 19 2015, 09:05 AM)
You can't set a by law that restrict individual owner to do on their property.

If the renting indeed violated the council rule (please read the old thread that I mentioned before about the running an illegal commercial activities without local council license), then you can report the matter to the local council.

The law is weak and plenty of grey area to tackle such an issue.
*
You can set rules that regulate the common area and make it difficult to run commercial activities...

As for renting out, there is a landlord in my Condo (residential), he has about 50+ units... Its very difficult to moniyor who is on short or long stay, the best way would be to amend the house rules.

Just a thought...

This post has been edited by aurora97: Jun 19 2015, 09:18 AM
gugukrez
post Jun 19 2015, 09:20 AM

Enthusiast
*****
Senior Member
924 posts

Joined: Jun 2010


QUOTE(CasLatency @ Jun 19 2015, 07:51 AM)
Hi Greeting to all member,

I have recently bought a mix development condo and I realize there are owners doing Short Term Rental (Daily Renting) and I wonder is this legal? do they have the rights to do so? we are residents staying there, those owners that are renting out for daily have cause the residents many problem this including renting out a 2 bedroom apartment to more then 10 people mad.gif  and during holiday time you can see many people coming in and out of the condo.  vmad.gif and occupying the facility.

Anyone that have similar problem? how do you deal with the management and the authority to stop it? Please share their knowledge and experience. very much appreciated thanks.  biggrin.gif

Regards
Cas
*
how big is the built up? because MPBJ got the law that one person must have the space of *** per cubic.. if the house only 800sqf with 10 people.. then u can call MPBJ go sapu.. minimum 5k or jail 2 year to owner..
TSCasLatency
post Jun 19 2015, 09:27 AM

New Member
*
Junior Member
11 posts

Joined: Jul 2009
From: China,Shen Zhen
QUOTE(gugukrez @ Jun 19 2015, 09:20 AM)
how big is the built up? because MPBJ got the law that one person must have the space of *** per cubic.. if the house only 800sqf with 10 people.. then u can call MPBJ go sapu.. minimum 5k or jail 2 year to owner..
*
Hi the build up is between 900-2500, MPBJ have such rules? if so that is very good, mean we just need to collect the evidence to launch the complaints. =)

By the way where do I refer to this rules?
gugukrez
post Jun 19 2015, 09:42 AM

Enthusiast
*****
Senior Member
924 posts

Joined: Jun 2010


QUOTE(CasLatency @ Jun 19 2015, 09:27 AM)
Hi the build up is between 900-2500, MPBJ have such rules? if so that is very good, mean we just need to collect the evidence to launch the complaints. =)

By the way where do I refer to this rules?
*
You can call MPBJ complain hotline to confirm with it.. as previously nearby my house there is one company renting the house with 25 ++ staff.. and neighborhood complain and MPBJ come sapu.. but give warning two week to move out those EXTRA staff..
puchongite
post Jun 19 2015, 09:44 AM

10k Club
********
All Stars
19,675 posts

Joined: May 2008
QUOTE(aurora97 @ Jun 19 2015, 09:13 AM)
Am not familiar with mix development...

Very interesting questio by TS....

My question though... Mixed dev or service apt/Condo sit on commercial land and has a commercial title to the parcel, if I can a business (making it into an office) from my apt/Condo, what's stopping me from short term renting?

What's the purpose of service apt/Condo in the first place???
*
I don't think by law you are allowed to run a business in your serviced apartment for long term stay. Even though it sits on a commercial land and commercial title.

Enforcement is a different issue.
NikAriff
post Jun 19 2015, 09:45 AM

New Member
*
Junior Member
11 posts

Joined: Jun 2015
QUOTE(puchongite @ Jun 19 2015, 09:00 AM)
I agree with you up to here
It's this conclusion which I disagree. wink.gif

The custom document clearly states out that short term stay or daily use is commercial use.

Only long term stay ( eg yearly contract ) in serviced apartment is considered residential use.

Then the question is who to decide whether short term stay is allowed or disallowed ?

The law allows serviced apartment to be used both for short term and long term stay. But I think typically the management office for long term stay they disallow owner run short term stay in it.
*
Hi Good Day,

In which part of the document does it states out that short term stay or daily use is commercial use?

I agree with you that mostly the management office will disallow owner to run short term stay but also to add in that this will need to look into their residents handbook and SPA as well, because if is in the house rules then calling for a AGM/EGM for majority vote can change or add rules to control, but if is the rules implement by the AGM/EGM are against the rights of SPA then we might have a problem, to my understanding SPA for residential falls under schedule H and SPA for Mix Development do not falls under this we might need to clarify this with the Authority but as usual the authority is inefficient. doh.gif

Regards
Nik
aurora97
post Jun 19 2015, 09:45 AM

I Didn't get the Memo
*******
Senior Member
3,392 posts

Joined: Aug 2007



QUOTE(puchongite @ Jun 19 2015, 09:44 AM)
I don't think by law you are allowed to run a business in your serviced apartment for long term stay. Even though it sits on a commercial land and commercial title.

Enforcement is a different issue.
*
interesting... topic... let me go take my shovel and korek.

thanks!
cherroy
post Jun 19 2015, 09:51 AM

20k VIP Club
Group Icon
Staff
25,552 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penang


QUOTE(NikAriff @ Jun 19 2015, 09:07 AM)
Yes you can ask your JMB/JMC to call for a AGM/EGM and get all owners consent to agree to implement a rules to stop the short term rental, but you need refer to your SPA, if you SPA is do not contain Schedule H then there is an issue it mean is not residential, some Mix Development that come with hotel do have rules in the SPA that owners cannot do Short Term Rental and that is difference cases, if your SPA do not have such rule and by implementing a rule to stop the STR by law is illegal it self and if the owners want to SUE the JMB they will have sufficient evidence to bring them to court, in this case the committee are still able to make new rules but they have to get the consent of all the unit owners mean if you have 500 unit you need to have 500 signature to agree and implement it to prevent legal action from owners that run STR.
*
STR has plenty of grey area start with, that's why it is problematic.

I don't think MC is allowed to set a by law that violate basic right of ownership.
How can MC set a by law rules that restrict owner who to rent, how the property being leased etc?

If a by law can be set like that, next time, MC also can convene an AGM, get all the signature then set a by law stated cannot rent to student, cannot rent for 1 month or 3 months, etc.
It doesn't make sense.

There no rule allowed in the Strata title act saying, if you getall the signature from all the owner, then you can apply such such kind of restriction.
The act only empower MC to set by law or house rules, but definitely not on restriction within individual unit how it is being used.

Until there is strata act that clearly stated STR is prohibited by stated the definition of STR, it is in grey area, which is difficult to tackle.
Previously there was case on STR, council only can fine the owner on the basic of running commercial activities in residential property, as there is no proper law or act to define STR and prohibit it, that's the major problem.

As such a restriction only can be imposed within local council, COB, or within the strata act itself.

MC only can govern on the issue on house rules on common property, access to the property, while within the unit itself, MC doesn't have juridication how the unit being leased.
Just like MC cannot enter the individual premise to restrict how the renovation (inside) being done, except the issue has caused nuisance or damage to common property.

Correct me if I am wrong.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Jun 19 2015, 09:52 AM
puchongite
post Jun 19 2015, 09:56 AM

10k Club
********
All Stars
19,675 posts

Joined: May 2008
QUOTE(NikAriff @ Jun 19 2015, 09:45 AM)
Hi Good Day,

In which part of the document does it states out that short term stay or daily use is commercial use?

I agree with you that mostly the management office will disallow owner to run short term stay but also to add in that this will need to look into their residents handbook and SPA as well, because if is in the house rules then calling for a AGM/EGM for majority vote can change or add rules to control, but if is the rules implement by the AGM/EGM are against the rights of SPA then we might have a problem, to my understanding SPA for residential falls under schedule H and SPA for Mix Development do not falls under this we might need to clarify this with the Authority but as usual the authority is inefficient.  doh.gif

Regards
Nik
*
http://www.customs.gov.my/en/pg/pg_ig/Acco...uly%202014).pdf

Point 10© and others.


cherroy
post Jun 19 2015, 09:58 AM

20k VIP Club
Group Icon
Staff
25,552 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penang


QUOTE(puchongite @ Jun 19 2015, 09:56 AM)
Custom issue is on treatment of GST, not related to Strata management act issue. smile.gif

2 difference front.


xl2778
post Jun 19 2015, 10:05 AM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
108 posts

Joined: May 2013
I have seen below clause in Deed of Mutual Covenant, does it mean short term stay is allow

The Vendor hereby fully reserves it absolute right and liberty, as it sole discretion, to use and or convert the SOHO, wholly or partially, into a hotel, guest house, hostel or inns regardless of whether the vendor shall operate the hotel on its own or through another or through an outright sales of the SOHO, wholly or partially , to another for this purpose.

The purchaser agrees and accepts that it is the vendor sole and unquestionable right, privilege and liberty to use and convert the SOHO, wholly or partially into a guest house, hostels or inns or any commercial entity at its sole discretion.
nookie188
post Jun 19 2015, 10:06 AM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
2,499 posts

Joined: Jan 2012
QUOTE(cherroy @ Jun 19 2015, 09:51 AM)
STR has plenty of grey area start with, that's why it is problematic.

I don't think MC is allowed to set a by law that violate basic right of ownership.
How can MC set a by law rules that restrict owner who to rent, how the property being leased etc?

If a by law can be set like that, next time, MC also can convene an AGM, get all the signature then set a by law stated cannot rent to student, cannot rent for 1 month or 3 months, etc.
It doesn't make sense.

There no rule allowed in the Strata title act saying, if you getall the signature from all the owner, then you can apply such such kind of restriction.
The act only empower MC to set by law or house rules, but definitely not on restriction within individual unit how it is being used.

Until there is strata act that clearly stated STR is prohibited by stated the definition of STR, it is in grey area, which is difficult to tackle.
Previously there was case on STR, council only can fine the owner on the basic of running commercial activities in residential property, as there is no proper law or act to define STR and prohibit it, that's the major problem.

As such a restriction only can be imposed within local council, COB, or within the strata act itself.

MC only can govern on the issue on house rules on common property, access to the property, while within the unit itself, MC doesn't have juridication how the unit being leased.
Just like MC cannot enter the individual premise to restrict how the renovation (inside) being done, except the issue has caused nuisance or damage to common property.

Correct me if I am wrong.
*
Well, I do know that the MBPJ has a restriction on number of occupants in a property ..
I think in a condo, the JMC /MC can amend the DMC to regulate number of occupants allowed per sq foot or whatever
due to safety reasons and most importantly the impact on the fire insurance coverage for the building. As we know, when fire occurs in a crowded places or areas - it becomes potentially fatal .

As for the unit itself, its not entirely true the JMC or MC has no say - after all most condos do not allow pets inside the condo..

I stand corrected if my observations are flawed..smile.gif

This post has been edited by nookie188: Jun 19 2015, 10:07 AM
NikAriff
post Jun 19 2015, 10:21 AM

New Member
*
Junior Member
11 posts

Joined: Jun 2015
QUOTE(cherroy @ Jun 19 2015, 09:58 AM)
Custom issue is on treatment of GST, not related to Strata management act issue.   smile.gif

2 difference front.
*
Hi thank for sharing I shall go through the document and will be giving you my opinion soon.

This post has been edited by NikAriff: Jun 19 2015, 10:22 AM
aurora97
post Jun 19 2015, 10:22 AM

I Didn't get the Memo
*******
Senior Member
3,392 posts

Joined: Aug 2007



QUOTE(nookie188 @ Jun 19 2015, 10:06 AM)
Well, I do know that the MBPJ has a restriction on number of occupants in a property ..
I think in a condo, the JMC /MC can amend the DMC to regulate number of occupants allowed per sq foot or whatever
due to safety reasons and most importantly the impact on the fire insurance coverage for the building.  As we know, when fire occurs in a crowded places or areas - it becomes potentially fatal .

As for the unit itself, its not entirely true the JMC or MC has no say - after all most condos do not allow pets inside the condo..

I stand corrected if my observations are flawed..smile.gif
*
To add:
Difference between DMC & House Rules

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


I think the question is firstly to address “is whether STR is legal in the first place”? Safety, fire insurance, number of occupants, pets, enforcement and so on… are only side issues. If you can show that STR is illegal (or unlawful) in the first place, you don’t even have to consider the side issues.

NikAriff
post Jun 19 2015, 10:44 AM

New Member
*
Junior Member
11 posts

Joined: Jun 2015
QUOTE(aurora97 @ Jun 19 2015, 10:22 AM)
To add:
Difference between DMC & House Rules

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


I think the question is firstly to address “is whether STR is legal in the first place”? Safety, fire insurance, number of occupants, pets, enforcement and so on… are only side issues. If you can show that STR is illegal (or unlawful) in the first place, you don’t even have to consider the side issues.
*
Hi to my knowledge there is no law in Malaysia that differentiate STR and Long Term Rental, the only law that differentiate is anything that is below 3 years is consider Rental and Anything that is above 3 year is consider a Lease and there is no control that Rental must be at least how many days, or months or years.

If this is the law then STR is not illegal and for the tenancy agreement to stamp it or not is up to the owner and the tenant the stamping only come to play when there is a dispute arise from the rental and the case need to bring to court, but still if is not stamp the owner can stamp it later and pay a fine.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Thanks
cherroy
post Jun 19 2015, 10:45 AM

20k VIP Club
Group Icon
Staff
25,552 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penang


QUOTE(nookie188 @ Jun 19 2015, 10:06 AM)
Well, I do know that the MBPJ has a restriction on number of occupants in a property ..
I think in a condo, the JMC /MC can amend the DMC to regulate number of occupants allowed per sq foot or whatever
due to safety reasons and most importantly the impact on the fire insurance coverage for the building.  As we know, when fire occurs in a crowded places or areas - it becomes potentially fatal .

As for the unit itself, its not entirely true the JMC or MC has no say - after all most condos do not allow pets inside the condo..

I stand corrected if my observations are flawed..smile.gif
*
You cannot amend DMC that had been signed.

DMC is just an agreement between developer and purchaser.

Once strata title is out, all follow Strata act, and any action only can be done based on what Strata act empower MC to do.

MC has no such power to restrict the occupant per sqft issue, only council, and any act gazetted can govern such an issue.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Jun 19 2015, 11:07 AM
aurora97
post Jun 19 2015, 10:53 AM

I Didn't get the Memo
*******
Senior Member
3,392 posts

Joined: Aug 2007



QUOTE(NikAriff @ Jun 19 2015, 10:44 AM)
Hi to my knowledge there is no law in Malaysia that differentiate STR and Long Term Rental, the only law that differentiate is anything that is below 3 years is consider Rental and Anything that is above 3 year is consider a Lease and there is no control that Rental must be at least how many days, or months or years.

If this is the law then STR is not illegal and for the tenancy agreement to stamp it or not is up to the owner and the tenant the stamping only come to play when there is a dispute arise from the rental and the case need to bring to court, but still if is not stamp the owner can stamp it later and pay a fine.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Thanks
*
Haven’t sighted anything to the contrary, I do agree that there’s no specific definition in the law as to what constitutes STR and LTR.

As for quoting item 49 Schedule 1 of the Stamp Act 1949, it doesn’t really help your cause because the Stamp Act is a means in which the government uses to collect revenue.

I would suggest the National Land Code, a lease is recognized as term exceeding 3 years (s.221 National Land Code 1965) and is capable of registration (s.292 National Land Code 1965). A tenancy on the other hand which is for a term not exceeding 3 years is exempted from registration (s.216 National Land Code 1965).

Like Ascott and Sommerset Residence or any other hotel per se, I would class a STR is a form of License instead of a tenancy.

cherroy
post Jun 19 2015, 11:06 AM

20k VIP Club
Group Icon
Staff
25,552 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penang


QUOTE(aurora97 @ Jun 19 2015, 10:53 AM)
Haven’t sighted anything to the contrary, I do agree that there’s no specific definition in the law as to what constitutes STR and LTR.

As for quoting item 49 Schedule 1 of the Stamp Act 1949, it doesn’t really help your cause because the Stamp Act is a means in which the government uses to collect revenue.

I would suggest the National Land Code, a lease is recognized as term exceeding 3 years (s.221 National Land Code 1965) and is capable of registration (s.292 National Land Code 1965). A tenancy on the other hand which is for a term not exceeding 3 years is exempted from registration (s.216 National Land Code 1965).

Like Ascott and Sommerset Residence or any other hotel per se, I would class a STR is a form of License instead of a tenancy.
*
The problem is we have no proper law/act to define STR and prohibit it.

Even for Strata management issue, only now the newly Act 757 starts to address the maintenance fee defaulter issue and many tedious management issue through a tribunal.

A more comprehensive Strata Management act is still needed.

NikAriff
post Jun 19 2015, 11:16 AM

New Member
*
Junior Member
11 posts

Joined: Jun 2015
QUOTE(aurora97 @ Jun 19 2015, 10:53 AM)
Haven’t sighted anything to the contrary, I do agree that there’s no specific definition in the law as to what constitutes STR and LTR.

As for quoting item 49 Schedule 1 of the Stamp Act 1949, it doesn’t really help your cause because the Stamp Act is a means in which the government uses to collect revenue.

I would suggest the National Land Code, a lease is recognized as term exceeding 3 years (s.221 National Land Code 1965) and is capable of registration (s.292 National Land Code 1965). A tenancy on the other hand which is for a term not exceeding 3 years is exempted from registration (s.216 National Land Code 1965).

Like Ascott and Sommerset Residence or any other hotel per se, I would class a STR is a form of License instead of a tenancy.
*
Hi to my knowledge there are 2 type of service apartment one that can be converted and run by hotelier that need license and another is run by individual owners that do not need a license but as long as the apartment is not private residential and is falls under service apartment like Regalia Resident in kuala lumpur.

aurora97
post Jun 19 2015, 11:22 AM

I Didn't get the Memo
*******
Senior Member
3,392 posts

Joined: Aug 2007



QUOTE(cherroy @ Jun 19 2015, 11:06 AM)
The problem is we have no proper law/act to define STR and prohibit it.

Even for Strata management issue, only now the newly Act 757 starts to address the maintenance fee defaulter issue and many tedious management issue through a tribunal.

A more comprehensive Strata Management act is still needed.
*
Not sure, hence I am taking out my shovel.

I am slanting towards the idea that the STR may be regulated by local by-laws instead of federal legislation.

The SMA governs the JMB and MC, it will not help you in this topic. Also to add, after perusing Schedule 4 of the SMA, the tribunal has no say in this issue as well.

As for a comprehensive or not SMA, i think cukup makan for now. Ask for more from Gomen now, you probably get nothing.

I have trained my thought as follows:-

1. I can establish that an “STR” is a license and not a “tenancy”.
You will know why I come to this conclusion because of the term “occupiers liability”. The rights and liability of a trespasser, visitor, licensee, tenant and lessor are all very different.

2. where STR is applied in a service apartment setting, is such “business activity” legal, unlawful or otherwise?

3. what does the law and rules say?

(a) is there a federal legislation?
(b) if there’s no federal legislation, is there any local by laws?
© if there’s no local by laws, what about DMC and house rules?

4. what is the solution or remedy?

cherroy
post Jun 19 2015, 11:31 AM

20k VIP Club
Group Icon
Staff
25,552 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penang


QUOTE(aurora97 @ Jun 19 2015, 11:22 AM)
Not sure, hence I am taking out my shovel.

I am slanting towards the idea that the STR may be regulated by local by-laws instead of federal legislation.

The SMA governs the JMB and MC, it will not help you in this topic. Also to add, after perusing Schedule 4 of the SMA, the tribunal has no say in this issue as well.

As for a comprehensive or not SMA, i think cukup makan for now. Ask for more from Gomen now, you probably get nothing.

I have trained my thought as follows:-

1. I can establish that an “STR” is a license and not a “tenancy”.
You will know why I come to this conclusion because of the term “occupiers liability”. The rights and liability of a trespasser, visitor, licensee, tenant and lessor are all very different.

2. where STR is applied in a service apartment setting, is such “business activity” legal, unlawful or otherwise?

3. what does the law and rules say?

(a) is there a federal legislation?
(b) if there’s no federal legislation, is there any local by laws?
© if there’s no local by laws, what about DMC and house rules?

4. what is the solution or remedy?
*
I think we can eliminate the option on DMC and house rules, as MC cannot impose restriction on owner how they want to do on their asset. It is their right unless state otherwise in any local council law or federal legislation.

House rules, only govern what you can do or not do throughout mainly on the common property issue.
eg.
Cannot park at visitor car park, impose clamp and fine on illegal parking on common property, cannot use facilities after midnight, need to pay deposit when moving in or out or renovation etc issue.

MC has the power on taking care of common property and impose house rules on it, but not the individual parcel.

aurora97
post Jun 19 2015, 11:33 AM

I Didn't get the Memo
*******
Senior Member
3,392 posts

Joined: Aug 2007



QUOTE(NikAriff @ Jun 19 2015, 11:16 AM)
Hi to my knowledge there are 2 type of service apartment one that can be converted and run by hotelier that need license and another is run by individual owners that do not need a license but as long as the apartment is not private residential and is falls under service apartment like Regalia Resident in kuala lumpur.
*
In addressing the TS question, I will take the second response:

Another is run by “individual owners” that do not need a license but as long as the apartment is not private residential and is falls under service apartment like Regalia Resident in Kuala Lumpur.

Unfortunately, you statement lack of credible source to support your inference.

Assuming that is the case, then the remedy would be to amend the house rules to tighten the usage of the common area. (example access card to differentiate between owners and visitors, requiring owners who carry out business to take up additional insurance [ example what if the visitor dies in the service apartment after being hit by a falling flower pot])

juicyliana
post Jun 19 2015, 11:58 AM

when u think juicy, think liana
*****
Senior Member
746 posts

Joined: Aug 2011
From: Lowyat.net
i guess those landlords rented it out as home stay.
aurora97
post Jun 19 2015, 12:00 PM

I Didn't get the Memo
*******
Senior Member
3,392 posts

Joined: Aug 2007



QUOTE(cherroy @ Jun 19 2015, 11:31 AM)
I think we can eliminate the option on DMC and house rules, as MC cannot impose restriction on owner how they want to do on their asset. It is their right unless state otherwise in any local council law or federal legislation.

House rules, only govern what you can do or not do throughout mainly on the common property issue.
eg.
Cannot park at visitor car park, impose clamp and fine on illegal parking on common property, cannot use facilities after midnight, need to pay deposit when moving in or out or renovation etc issue.

MC has the power on taking care of common property and impose house rules on it, but not the individual parcel.
*
I completely agree and I am not disputing the fact that DMC and House Rules have no say on this subject matter because it infringes basic human rights.

I have been highlighting from the beginning that the crux and the use of DMC and House Rules are to regulate the common areas. Unless he can somehow fly to his unit, he will need to use the common area. Gaining control of access points is key in discouraging people from carrying out business activities, on this score, one must also have support of the general population and also the management committee in order to succeed.

I further caveat my view that one should only resort to DMC and House Rules ONLY when all avenues have been exhausted (both Federal, State and Locality).

cherroy
post Jun 19 2015, 12:48 PM

20k VIP Club
Group Icon
Staff
25,552 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penang


QUOTE(aurora97 @ Jun 19 2015, 12:00 PM)
I completely agree and I am not disputing the fact that DMC and House Rules have no say on this subject matter because it infringes basic human rights.

I have been highlighting from the beginning that the crux and the use of DMC and House Rules are to regulate the common areas. Unless he can somehow fly to his unit, he will need to use the common area. Gaining control of access points is key in discouraging people from carrying out business activities, on this score, one must also have support of the general population and also the management committee in order to succeed.

*
Yup, I agreed on this matter, until then, what MC can do is to impose some strict house rules which make it difficulty for STR customer to access into the property without access card, as well as use of facilities etc method.
If always there is difficulty in term of access and use of facilities for "stranger", it discourages the demand of it.

Actually house owner that using the property for STR for short term gain is killing their own property value only without realising.
Who want to buy a condo/apartment that fill with STR?

aurora97
post Jun 19 2015, 01:19 PM

I Didn't get the Memo
*******
Senior Member
3,392 posts

Joined: Aug 2007



QUOTE(xl2778 @ Jun 19 2015, 10:05 AM)
I have seen below clause in Deed of Mutual Covenant, does it mean short term stay is allow

The Vendor hereby fully reserves it absolute right and liberty, as it sole discretion, to use and or convert the SOHO, wholly or partially, into a hotel, guest house, hostel or inns regardless of whether the vendor shall operate the hotel on its own or through another or through an outright sales of the SOHO, wholly or partially , to another for this purpose.

The purchaser agrees and accepts that it is the vendor sole and unquestionable right, privilege and liberty to use and convert the SOHO, wholly or partially into a guest house, hostels or inns or any commercial entity at its sole discretion.
*
I just noted this pt.

Possible.

Although the DMC/House Rules may permit such activity to be carried out, you may also want to consider federal legislation/local (state/municipal) by laws. Federal legislation/local (state/municipal) by laws will trump your DMC and where necessary, you may be required to obtain license to carry out certain businesses (i.e. hotel/inns).


This post has been edited by aurora97: Jun 19 2015, 02:23 PM
NikAriff
post Jun 19 2015, 03:46 PM

New Member
*
Junior Member
11 posts

Joined: Jun 2015
QUOTE(cherroy @ Jun 19 2015, 09:58 AM)
Custom issue is on treatment of GST, not related to Strata management act issue.  smile.gif

2 difference front.
*
Hi Good day,

Just gone through the document.

The Royal Malaysian Customs document on the GST and how it will apply to accommodation (in particular, paragraphs 5 - 10). This clearly states that service apartments which are sold for residential purposes (are demmed "residential" ; we cannot run a hairdressers' or an office there) are not subject to GST because they are not "commercial".

However, apartments run as a timeshare (paragraph 10e) ARE deemed to be "commercial" and are subject to the GST.

So this mean is clear that STR do some how are legal, in some way if they do it correctly.
aurora97
post Jun 19 2015, 04:00 PM

I Didn't get the Memo
*******
Senior Member
3,392 posts

Joined: Aug 2007



QUOTE(NikAriff @ Jun 19 2015, 03:46 PM)
Hi Good day,

Just gone through the document.

The Royal Malaysian Customs document on the GST and how it will apply to accommodation (in particular, paragraphs 5 - 10). This clearly states that service apartments which are sold for residential purposes (are demmed "residential" ; we cannot run a hairdressers' or an office there) are not subject to GST because they are not "commercial".

However, apartments run as a timeshare (paragraph 10e) ARE deemed to be "commercial" and are subject to the GST.

So this mean is clear that STR do some how are legal, in some way if they do it correctly.
*
To add:

Interestingly, while reading the Customs guidelines I noticed this:-

Under the Tourism Industry Act 1992, “accommodation premises” means any building including hotels, inns, motels, boarding houses, hostels, rest-houses and lodging-houses held out by the proprietor, owner or manager, either wholly or partly as offering lodging or sleeping accommodation to tourists for hire or any other form of reward, whether or not food or drink is also offered. Any person who carries on or operates accommodation premises shall be registered under such Act.

Read who is a tourist…. Believe me half the time you may be one LOL

“tourist” means any person, whether he is a Malaysian national or otherwise, visiting any place in Malaysia for any of the following purposes, namely— (a) pleasure, recreation or holiday; (b) culture; © religion; (d) visiting friends or relatives; (e) sports; (f) business; (g) meetings, conferences, seminars or conventions; (h) studies or research; (i) any other purpose which is not related to an occupation that is remunerated from the place visited;

So, what does this mean?

It’s possible for those who let based on STR may be subject to Tourism Industry Act 1992.

Heavy penalties await for those who do not have license to do such activities.

Hahahahahaa….

This post has been edited by aurora97: Jun 19 2015, 04:01 PM
puchongite
post Jun 19 2015, 04:20 PM

10k Club
********
All Stars
19,675 posts

Joined: May 2008
QUOTE(NikAriff @ Jun 19 2015, 03:46 PM)
Hi Good day,

Just gone through the document.

The Royal Malaysian Customs document on the GST and how it will apply to accommodation (in particular, paragraphs 5 - 10). This clearly states that service apartments which are sold for residential purposes (are demmed "residential" ; we cannot run a hairdressers' or an office there) are not subject to GST because they are not "commercial".

However, apartments run as a timeshare (paragraph 10e) ARE deemed to be "commercial" and are subject to the GST.

So this mean is clear that STR do some how are legal, in some way if they do it correctly.
*
The only problem is that Cherroy is of the view that what's considered "commercial activity" for GST purposes may not be the same as "commercial activity" for strata title management.
cherroy
post Jun 19 2015, 04:42 PM

20k VIP Club
Group Icon
Staff
25,552 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penang


QUOTE(NikAriff @ Jun 19 2015, 03:46 PM)
Hi Good day,

Just gone through the document.

The Royal Malaysian Customs document on the GST and how it will apply to accommodation (in particular, paragraphs 5 - 10). This clearly states that service apartments which are sold for residential purposes (are demmed "residential" ; we cannot run a hairdressers' or an office there) are not subject to GST because they are not "commercial".

However, apartments run as a timeshare (paragraph 10e) ARE deemed to be "commercial" and are subject to the GST.

So this mean is clear that STR do some how are legal, in some way if they do it correctly.
*
You can't drag something on GST treatment into Strata Management issue.

GST concern about how the property being sold whether need to charge GST or not, because GST is exempted for residential properties/purposes.

While another front is STR is legal or not under Strata act or any other act.

Both issues are not relating to each other.

So far, Strata Management act or even local council rules is silent on STR issue.
While only local council rules is against STR based on commercial activities being run at residential premise which is prohibited.

peri peri
post Jun 19 2015, 04:43 PM

10k nonsense talkative club
********
All Stars
11,921 posts

Joined: Mar 2012
From: Kuala Lumpur



what type of facilities that caused nuisance to you? swimming pool? are you occupying and fully utilize those facilities? Ask you self first.
nookie188
post Jun 19 2015, 04:51 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
2,499 posts

Joined: Jan 2012

very interesting and informative debate going on here thumbup.gif thumbup.gif

the problem in this country is enforcement by the relevant authority - the rules, regulations, and guidelines
are in place but if there is no enforcement, it really means its as good as not having them..

having to go through the courts to get a remedy is costly and time consuming

I do know of actual high rise strata development that does not permit STR and its stated clearly in the HR but
again, enforcement is a little tricky.
cherroy
post Jun 19 2015, 04:51 PM

20k VIP Club
Group Icon
Staff
25,552 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penang


QUOTE(peri peri @ Jun 19 2015, 04:43 PM)
what type of facilities that caused nuisance to you? swimming pool? are you occupying and fully utilize those facilities? Ask you self first.
*
The concern of STR is not about nuisance, but more about security issue, while longer term property value itself.

Security issue is one of top agenda of property purchaser nowadays.
It is difficult to have tight and good security with the property is full of STR.

An apartment with plenty of STR may drive away purchasers, hence poorer value for the property.
It also may result in more difficult for MC to manage, as well as may incur higher cost to maintenance as STR visitor may not take good care of the property, eg, throwing rubbish simply etc.

nookie188
post Jun 19 2015, 04:56 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
2,499 posts

Joined: Jan 2012
QUOTE(cherroy @ Jun 19 2015, 04:51 PM)
The concern of STR is not about nuisance, but more about security issue, while longer term property value itself.

Security issue is one of top agenda of property purchaser nowadays.
It is difficult to have tight and good security with the property is full of STR.

An apartment with plenty of STR may drive away purchasers, hence poorer value for the property.
It also may result in more difficult for MC to manage, as well as may incur higher cost to maintenance as STR visitor may not take good care of the property, eg, throwing rubbish simply etc.
*
I agree totally ..security is a huge issue..who wants to leave in a condo where you have practically different people
walking in and out all the time..first v know STR will not take care of the place ..secondly it really does impact on the value ..we all know that owner occupied condos fetch better value as the building is also better maintained.
puchongite
post Jun 19 2015, 04:56 PM

10k Club
********
All Stars
19,675 posts

Joined: May 2008
QUOTE(cherroy @ Jun 19 2015, 04:42 PM)
While only local council rules is against STR based on commercial activities being run at residential premise which is prohibited.
*
So meaning we could call the local council people to give trouble to those people who runs STR in a residential premise such as a service apartment because it's a commercial activity and requires additional permit or something ?
peri peri
post Jun 19 2015, 05:04 PM

10k nonsense talkative club
********
All Stars
11,921 posts

Joined: Mar 2012
From: Kuala Lumpur



QUOTE(cherroy @ Jun 19 2015, 04:51 PM)
The concern of STR is not about nuisance, but more about security issue, while longer term property value itself.

Security issue is one of top agenda of property purchaser nowadays.
It is difficult to have tight and good security with the property is full of STR.

An apartment with plenty of STR may drive away purchasers, hence poorer value for the property.
It also may result in more difficult for MC to manage, as well as may incur higher cost to maintenance as STR visitor may not take good care of the property, eg, throwing rubbish simply etc.
*
nowaday lavish condo or apartment with 4 tiers security check, CCTV every corner, Security patrolling all round the clocks, still doesnt sounds good? Nothing is guarantee nowaday. Even bungalow with own armed security and guard dogs also got chance to break in.

FYI, my apartment mgt assigned a guard to sit next to pool to register all the users. Im not sure what the purpose doing so which i think some people might having the same mind with TS, kiasu. But for me, i never use the swimming pool says 2 years redi and im paying rm400 every month.

Anywhere also having vandalism and bad tenants. Its depends how concern and discipline from the entire residents.

This is not a jail. we can force people to behave or what. But there will be regulation, surveillance and hired enforcer to make sure all in hands.


cherroy
post Jun 19 2015, 05:11 PM

20k VIP Club
Group Icon
Staff
25,552 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penang


QUOTE(puchongite @ Jun 19 2015, 04:56 PM)
So meaning we could call the local council people to give trouble to those people who runs STR in a residential premise such as a service apartment because it's a commercial activity and requires additional permit or something ?
*
Yes, there was a case before which appeared in newspaper as well.

The apartment just beside a hospital, while the hospital is famous for "medical tourism" especially for nearby country citizen. A few property owner reap short term gain through the STR by renting to those "tourist" a day or two only, which lead to many owner complain to local authority.

But the fine was not heavy enough to deter future irresponsible owner to do STR, sadly to say.
That's why there is a need to Strata Management act to govern such issue, or heavier local council fine for such activities.
peri peri
post Jun 19 2015, 05:13 PM

10k nonsense talkative club
********
All Stars
11,921 posts

Joined: Mar 2012
From: Kuala Lumpur



But SRT only popular at city centre. and most of the time, SRT dont use the facility. Their short stay mainly for the convenience to visit around the area or some business matter.

Im not sure how SRT issue can evolve until safety issue is a huge concern, then type of building use allowed.


cherroy
post Jun 19 2015, 05:19 PM

20k VIP Club
Group Icon
Staff
25,552 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penang


QUOTE(peri peri @ Jun 19 2015, 05:04 PM)
nowaday lavish condo or apartment with 4 tiers security check, CCTV every corner, Security patrolling all round the clocks, still doesnt sounds good? Nothing is guarantee nowaday. Even bungalow with own armed security and guard dogs also got chance to break in.

FYI, my apartment mgt assigned a guard to sit next to pool to register all the users. Im not sure what the purpose doing so which i think some people might having the same mind with TS, kiasu. But for me, i never use the swimming pool says 2 years redi and im paying rm400 every month.

Anywhere also having vandalism and bad tenants. Its depends how concern and discipline from the entire residents.

This is not a jail. we can force people to behave or what. But there will be regulation, surveillance and hired enforcer to make sure all in hands.
*
If you have joined in the MC/JMB before and running the management before, only then you will realise STR is a very problematic matter for management.
I involved in JMB/MC before, all sort of issues arised in a building management something can be out of imagination as well.

Yes there may be bad tenants as well as owner. But STR problem as compared has way higher probability and difficult to solve.
At least something arised time, you can call the owner or tenant come to resolve. STR, the person no longer there, while the owner said, he/she is not responsible something not done by him/her.

Only vested interest party support STR,
while actual owner that living inside as well as those care about their property value over long term, I don't see how they are not against STR.

aurora97
post Jun 19 2015, 05:24 PM

I Didn't get the Memo
*******
Senior Member
3,392 posts

Joined: Aug 2007



QUOTE(cherroy @ Jun 19 2015, 05:19 PM)
If you have joined in the MC/JMB before and running the management before, only then you will realise STR is a very problematic matter for management.
I involved in JMB/MC before, all sort of issues arised in a building management something can be out of imagination as well.

Yes there may be bad tenants as well as owner. But STR problem as compared has way higher probability and difficult to solve.
At least something arised time, you can call the owner or tenant come to resolve. STR, the person no longer there, while the owner said, he/she is not responsible something not done by him/her.

Only vested interest party support STR,
while actual owner that living inside as well as those care about their property value over long term, I don't see how they are not against STR.
*
I agree on this point.

My condo use to be occupied by students.

Every other month, you will be talking about damage to this and that.

You don’t feel it until you become a victim.

cherroy
post Jun 19 2015, 05:28 PM

20k VIP Club
Group Icon
Staff
25,552 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penang


QUOTE(peri peri @ Jun 19 2015, 05:13 PM)
But SRT only popular at city centre. and most of the time, SRT dont use the facility. Their short stay mainly for the convenience to visit around the area or some business matter.

Im not sure how SRT issue can evolve until safety issue is a huge concern, then type of building use allowed.
*
Wait until you actual run the management, and experience how problematic STR can be, it is difficult to explain.

There were cases, syndicate of burglar STR on a unit and break into many unit in the building, to cover up the burglary activities, as the stolen items was stored inside the unit, and slowly transported out. As they have the access card to enter and exist easily through the STR.

Illegal activities/syndicate may love STR as well. As in ordinary renting of a place, tenancy agreement needed, which you need to know your tenant identity, IC needed to stamping the agreement.
While STR, they just pay the money, can use the place as hub for illegal activities without leaving trace of identity.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Jun 19 2015, 05:30 PM
aurora97
post Jun 19 2015, 05:32 PM

I Didn't get the Memo
*******
Senior Member
3,392 posts

Joined: Aug 2007



QUOTE(puchongite @ Jun 19 2015, 04:56 PM)
So meaning we could call the local council people to give trouble to those people who runs STR in a residential premise such as a service apartment because it's a commercial activity and requires additional permit or something ?
*
Based on what I have gathered… the line of attack should be as follows:-

1st step
Read up on your DMC or house rules

2nd Step
DMC or house rules
(a) silent on the issue
(b) expressly prohibit
© expressly allow
(d) poor drafting incomprehensible

3rd Step
For (a) lodge complaint with COB.
For (b) lodge complaint with JMB/MC to enforce. If they fail to do so, escalate to COB.
For © lodge complaint to Ministry of Tourism and COB. (try your lucklor) LOL.
For (d) lodge complaint with COB, JMB/MC and Ministry of tourism.

4th step
Response satisfactory = end
Response not satisfactory= raise in AGM/EGM.
NikAriff
post Jun 19 2015, 08:20 PM

New Member
*
Junior Member
11 posts

Joined: Jun 2015
QUOTE(CasLatency @ Jun 19 2015, 07:51 AM)
Hi Greeting to all member,

I have recently bought a mix development condo and I realize there are owners doing Short Term Rental (Daily Renting) and I wonder is this legal? do they have the rights to do so? we are residents staying there, those owners that are renting out for daily have cause the residents many problem this including renting out a 2 bedroom apartment to more then 10 people mad.gif  and during holiday time you can see many people coming in and out of the condo.  vmad.gif and occupying the facility.

Anyone that have similar problem? how do you deal with the management and the authority to stop it? Please share your knowledge and experience. very much appreciated thanks.  biggrin.gif

Regards
Cas
*
Hi,

Back to the actual question that Cas firstly ask we need to resolve:
1) Is Mixed development apartment falls under service apartment no matter is service residence or service suite.
- to my understanding any apartment that build on top of a commercial land falls under "service" and developer have use the term to mislead buyer. (Where can we get a solid proof to define it)

2) if is consider a service apartment can individual owner rent out daily?
- If time sharing club house are allow the main differ is they have a license and individual owner do not have, but it still mean STR do exits legally.

Regards
Nik

This post has been edited by NikAriff: Jun 19 2015, 08:25 PM
TSCasLatency
post Jun 20 2015, 11:18 AM

New Member
*
Junior Member
11 posts

Joined: Jul 2009
From: China,Shen Zhen
QUOTE(aurora97 @ Jun 19 2015, 05:32 PM)
Based on what I have gathered… the line of attack should be as follows:-

1st step
Read up on your DMC or house rules

2nd Step
DMC or house rules
(a) silent on the issue
(b) expressly prohibit
© expressly allow
(d) poor drafting incomprehensible

3rd Step
For (a) lodge complaint with COB.
For (b) lodge complaint with JMB/MC to enforce. If they fail to do so, escalate to COB.
For © lodge complaint to Ministry of Tourism and COB. (try your lucklor) LOL.
For (d) lodge complaint with COB, JMB/MC and Ministry of tourism.

4th step
Response satisfactory = end
Response not satisfactory= raise in AGM/EGM.
*
Hi I found this link,

http://www.hba.org.my/articles/iprop/2006-not.htm

It clearly say that Residences: Another name for Serviced Apartments

My Condo is Serviced Residences does that mean it is Serviced Apartments?

Is very confusing.


NikAriff
post Jun 20 2015, 11:25 AM

New Member
*
Junior Member
11 posts

Joined: Jun 2015
QUOTE(CasLatency @ Jun 20 2015, 11:18 AM)
Hi I found this link,

http://www.hba.org.my/articles/iprop/2006-not.htm

It clearly say that Residences: Another name for Serviced Apartments

My Condo is Serviced Residences does that mean it is Serviced Apartments?

Is very confusing.
*
As mention in the articles:
if it is erected on any land designated for or approved for commercial development, it is not considered 'housing accommodation' as defined under the Housing Development (Control and Licensing) Act (Housing Act).

It say as long as is build on top of a commercial land is not consider housing accomodation, so to you question yes it is Service Apartment according to this articles.


aurora97
post Jun 20 2015, 11:59 AM

I Didn't get the Memo
*******
Senior Member
3,392 posts

Joined: Aug 2007



QUOTE(CasLatency @ Jun 20 2015, 11:18 AM)
Hi I found this link,

http://www.hba.org.my/articles/iprop/2006-not.htm

It clearly say that Residences: Another name for Serviced Apartments

My Condo is Serviced Residences does that mean it is Serviced Apartments?

Is very confusing.
*
careful HDA some of the articles Are out-dated.

QUOTE(NikAriff @ Jun 20 2015, 11:25 AM)
As mention in the articles:
if it is erected on any land designated for or approved for commercial development, it is not considered 'housing accommodation' as defined under the Housing Development (Control and Licensing) Act (Housing Act).

It say as long as is build on top of a commercial land is not consider housing accomodation, so to you question yes it is Service Apartment according to this articles.
*
Malaysian Bar Council

Does the definition of “housing accommodation” in the amended Act include serviced suites or apartments?

If the serviced suites or serviced apartments are intended for human habitation or partly for human habitation and partly for business premises, then they will fall within the definition of housing accommodation as amended. It does not matter if the accommodation is erected on a land designated or approved for commercial development as the Amendment Act has removed these words from the definition of housing accommodation inserted by the 2002 Amendment Act.
TSCasLatency
post Jun 21 2015, 02:57 PM

New Member
*
Junior Member
11 posts

Joined: Jul 2009
From: China,Shen Zhen
QUOTE(aurora97 @ Jun 20 2015, 11:59 AM)
careful HDA some of the articles Are out-dated.
Malaysian Bar Council

Does the definition of “housing accommodation” in the amended Act include serviced suites or apartments?

If the serviced suites or serviced apartments are intended for human habitation or partly for human habitation and partly for business premises, then they will fall within the definition of housing accommodation as amended. It does not matter if the accommodation is erected on a land designated or approved for commercial development as the Amendment Act has removed these words from the definition of housing accommodation inserted by the 2002 Amendment Act.
*
Since there is no control that tenancy should be how many day, it mean we need to proof that daily rental consider commercial use, where can we get this proof?


NikAriff
post Jun 21 2015, 03:04 PM

New Member
*
Junior Member
11 posts

Joined: Jun 2015
QUOTE(CasLatency @ Jun 21 2015, 02:57 PM)
Since there is no control that tenancy should be how many day, it mean we need to proof that daily rental consider commercial use, where can we get this proof?
*
Hi Cas,

Since there is no law that control a tenancy period less the 3 years, if daily rental is consider a commercial use then month or yearly will also be classify as commercial use as well, this issue still falls on the grey area, the best is the management introduce strict rules to control it or may be you can suggest finger print access only system to be implemented but not sure if this will be control by the Personal Data Protection Act, if is finger print access only then is very hard for STR to carry out because only people that register the print can access.

Regards
Nik
Hansel
post Jun 26 2015, 07:23 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
7,700 posts

Joined: Aug 2010
A lot of debates abt the regulations suroundng STR, but in my personal experience, who is going to go out there and 'catch' tht ther is an STR arranegemnt going on ? Someone from the MC ? Who is goingto volunteer to be a PI here ?

Prrof from CCTV is not enuff. I can always say those are my relatives, nd I am letting them stay for free. Tht's what they do in HK, Denmark, and many countries too. Personal experience here.
lrm8888
post Jul 1 2015, 03:32 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
146 posts

Joined: Oct 2010


QUOTE(cherroy @ Jun 19 2015, 08:29 AM)
It is illegal to turn residential property into commercial activities (as daily rent hotel), whereby one can lodge the report with local council and COB.

You may refer and join into previous thread that talk about similar issue, but that was on residential property.
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2353137/all
*
just wondering, all the comment given at the forum any lawyer there? if not all just base on their opinion....i am very interested to find out more too

 

Change to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.0337sec    0.81    5 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 13th July 2020 - 07:28 AM