It is clear that it boils down to how one understands “freewill” in relation to good/bad and responsibility.
To be frank, good and evil is actually a conventional term. Harmful desires/actions basically arisen upon 2 conditions;
1. The failure to realize/understand its true consequence.
2. The failure to remember/be mindful of what has been learned.
And both of these are beyond one’s control. Although one can train oneself to be mindful or pursue more knowledge but that motivation/intention(to train/pursue) has to be supported by some extent of realization to begin with...which has to do with natural selection/exposure thus the argument supporting freewill and absolute individual responsibility actually overlooked the whole context of human behavior.

In summary, God is actually cursing those who have poor understanding and memory to eternal hell.

Furthermore, here’s what the bible implies about freewill;



But the fact women pastor/deacon preaching men remains as controversial till today.

This post has been edited by loud: May 7 2015, 02:43 PM

That is not true. Actually you got it wrong, it's not this popular Atheist saying, God created Heaven and Hell and either you (force) believe in me or you go to hell. You have to erase that misconception out of your mind.

All of us have been separated from God by the corruption of sin, pass on from Adam. Satan deceived Eve. God held Eve, Adam and Satan accountable.
but more importantly God held Satan responsible and condemn primarily him to eternal hell, whereas God killed an animal in sin atonement for Adam and Eve and also immediately executed a saving plan for all human kind.
Does that make God seem like He wants people to go to Hell? Definately not and I have tons of other scripture verse to prove that as well. But why is it that, that there are people who go to hell?
The answer is simple, it's because they rejected God and his saving plan, God is a gentleman, He will not force, When anyone rejects Him, Satan will come in and lay claim to that person's spirit and soul. Satan is just innately destructive and evil. And again before you say this, No God did not create Satan. I think I've explained this tons of times, lazy to repeat it.

Another thing is that, Many People have complained this world is messed up. I've seen the comment that the world is so crazy at time, this earth need a reset button. That is evidence the corruption of sin in this world. Well God is going to give us a new heaven and earth. To go there, the corruption of sin have to be removed from us and this is possible only through the blood of Christ, by acknowledging Him as your Saviour and let God change you in his power.

You don't really need rocket scientist mentality to understand this.

God does not hold people like Children and those mentally challenge/Childlike accountable and condemn them to eternal hell.

James 4:13-15 is pertaining to future events. The fact that, we don't know what will happen in the future, so God is asking us as Christians, to not boast about the future, saying we will do this or that. This verse is for Christians really. Nothing to do with freewill.

John 15:16 is pertaining to God choosing us to bear fruit. Meaning to exhibit growth spiritually that will manifest his blessing in our lives.

It's controversial when people (sometime Christians even) don't understand the Bible well enough, that is why God appoints teachers to teach, so don't believe blindly what you see on the internet, especially from Anti God sites.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: May 7 2015, 08:22 PM

^ Such a simplistic "Black and White FALLACY"....or false dichotomy

This post has been edited by BeastX: May 7 2015, 04:42 PM

malaysia have atheist?
question to fellow atheist:
what u guys do for a living?

This post has been edited by akhmedisonline: May 7 2015, 04:46 PM

I was trying to address this;
"My point being, we are responsible for our own actions, not God. God did not create the problem, we did."

You misunderstood my point and take it a few step too far. Let me repeat in another way.
Assuming those event spoken in the bible is true and God is real,
why do you think Satan choose to do harm? why a person choose to disobey God?
Aren't all these fall within the 2 parameters i mentioned;
1. The failure to realize/understand its true consequence.
2. The failure to remember/be mindful of what has been learned.

Please try reflect on your own past experience what is the conditions for any of your harmful action to manifest/persist?
I assure you one doesn't need to be mentally challenge to be subjected to those conditions. It has been part of our daily lives.

And don't always blame Satan la, see what James 1:14-15 say:

It has to do with one's own harmful desire but as i mentioned "harmful desire/action" manifest due to the 2 conditions not because a person senang-senang want to be bad for no reason.

This post has been edited by loud: May 7 2015, 08:48 PM

Yes it's part of our very being because it started from the corruption of sin, passed on from Adam.
We are responsible for our own actions.

Why Satan choose to do harm? Because of pride.
Why a person choose to reject God? Because of the nature of Sin, Bible term call it the works of the flesh, it is hostile and anti-God.

What I meant was God held Satan accountable and condemn Him to eternal punishment but for Adam and Eve and all man kind, God prepared a Salvation Plan.

Hi, I just trying to find out where atheist in malaysia came from. help.

Neither pride nor sin(tendency to do harm) can arise in one's mind if one had truly recognized right/wrong and being mindful of it.
In other words, pride and sin is conditioned by ignorance and forgetfulness... is anyone with these 2 underlying tendencies deserved eternal damnation?

From anywhere... leaving religion and taking the default position.

so, all of u guys originally believe in something or practicing religion, but then decided become atheist?

Not all. Depends on how people are raised. Me come from polytheistic background.

correct me if Im wrong,your background means you were raised by parents with different believe?

No. It is belief in many gods and deities.

ic...
how you become polysthetic?

Was raised to believe in more than one god.
Check out the Sintua thread.

so you was raised as a believer..
what makes you a disbeliever?
are you still finding, or already moved on?

This post has been edited by akhmedisonline: May 7 2015, 09:54 PM

Rationality and self-honesty.
sembang lain kali...got to leave now.

You can ask others here too:
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3241500

So, from the conclusion, here, the freethinker only believe in Dan Barker, Clarence Darrow, Barbara Walker and others mentioned.

It seems like you guys are no different with people with religion. we have our reference, you have too.

I thought free thinker become a free thinker himself after he himself live for a hundreds of years, have seen everything, understand everything, able to comprehend the kongcept of the universe to be able to acknowledge yourself as one of the freethinker.

you guys are not atheist, you guys are lost, something happened at some point in your life that made you a disbeliever.

This post has been edited by akhmedisonline: May 7 2015, 10:27 PM