Wonderful testimony

Then continue where you are. Don't stop learning and also keep on reading your Bible.

Everytime I open up the Bible, God just amazes me.

I believe I've already answered what you asked above. All these that you asked, whatever Dawkin accused, have been debunked. I've laid the foundation to rest, like Why God allowed things to continue. If you know the Bible well enough, You will know that God does loved His people so much that He would defeat their enemies for them, then there must be some redeeming quality about this God. He is not as what Dawkins claimed to be.

What I shared in my previous devotion does bring the truth out that God is good. The reason why you disagree is because you don't understand God as we believers do. It's not just the matter of hidden truth but complete revelation of the entire Bible. What Dawkin did was quoting things out of context, removing that is only CON. Which is what he did. And you guys got suckered for it.

For example in our earlier discussion, I've addressed what you throwed, like the Woman remaining silent. You got that from him. Shows how he knows nuts about the Bible. You threw that seemingly hard question and I've laid it to rest. Doesn't this convince you, that people like Dawkins have been reading it wrong? Yes it does, you even admit that problem yourself in the course of our discussion.

If you REALLY want to find out the truth and if you are open to find out, I don't mind to repeat the answers though you don't seem to value it.

But if you already shut your mind completely, then there is really no point for us to continue discussing this. I don't want to force anything if you don't want to listen.

One thing I find true about unbelievers is that they cannot understand neither remembers things pertaining to God, it's like something keep stealing whatever that is planted or explained. I bet despite of saying this, you'll not remember it either. Oh how Matthew 13 hold so true.

Oh as pertaining to Danokchonger, I've already said, only the Abrahamic Faith claims exclusivity whereas other religion does not. For us they are counterfeits.
As to why I choose Christianity in the Abrahamic Faith, that I will only share if you really want to know. It doesn't make sense to test out every religion because it takes a lifetime to study all the religion and we don't really have that sort of time on Earth, what we can do is narrow down the possibilities, there is a way and I know how but I don't want to throw that pearl of discussion away if one don't see the value of it.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: May 12 2015, 09:14 AM

Not so fast. According to the bible, it takes 2...faith and righteousness (James 2:25-26). And the bible admit itself that faith does not necessary leads to righteousness (James 2:17- 19).

I already address how pride comes to manifest.
Whether one call it sin or ignorance doesn't matter, it is not our fault, we did not choose to born with such condition. If the sin/pride in us drives us to disobey God, not our fault too, these are all cause and condition of our nature. It is the temparament that chooses, "we" are just slave to it (Romans 6:20).

And for people to realize and take on righteousness over sin regardless dependend on God or not, it takes a whole lot of complex and odds factors.
So is it justify to throw sinners into eternal hell for succumbing to their very nature?

This post has been edited by loud: May 12 2015, 02:09 PM

Do i miss something... What woman remaining silent?
Please quote for me that post, i want to re-comprehend it.



Bro, you double standard la. When i kept repeating myself about this you don't seem to accept but now you tell me Matthew 13 hold so true.
My argument start from the beginning till now is to question (in supposition bible holds the truth) do non-believers/sinners deserved eternal damnation for being conditioned by the 2 latent tendencies of ignorance and forgetfulness. Until now no one answer me yet...
This is not solely about God's unfathomable law anymore but has to do with our fate, we have the bloody right to question it.



But we can't just equate "claim" to truth. Just like one salesman claiming his product is best in the world while another humble salesman keeps quiet but upon testing- his product proves to be far superior than the former's.



Go ahead. The bible tells you not to be stingy. Even if i fail to value it some others might pick it up...if that was truly a pearl.

btw we didn't choose God. He chose us =)

lordship salvation is the phrase you want about faith in Jesus as both Savior and Lord.

Ah, but you let your own assumption or implication to cloud the reading of the text. Just let the text speaks of itself.

In Romans 5 through 8 there are many indications that sin is like a living person: it entered (5:12), it reigns (5:21), it can lord it over us (6:14), it deceives us (7:11), it kills us (7:11), and it dwells in us (7:17). Once sin, the evil element of Satan, was injected into man, man was constituted a sinner. Now instead of being proper human beings, we are sinners by constitution. Romans 5:19a says, “Through the disobedience of one man the many were constituted sinners."

2 Cor. 4:4 states that "the god of this age has blinded the thoughts of the unbelievers that the illumination of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine on them" (2 Cor. 4:4). This agrees with the previously cited Scripture because this is how Satan guards and blinds the mind of man. Perhaps a man considers himself to be very intelligent, able to use various arguments to oppose the gospel. Some think that others do not believe because they do not yet understand. Actually, the eyes of men's minds have been covered up by Satan. Since men's minds are guarded by Satan, their "thoughts were hardened" (3:14). They were "doing the desires of the flesh and of the thoughts, and were by nature children of wrath" (Eph. 2:3). They are "enemies in [the] mind" (Col. 1:21) because "the mind set on the flesh is enmity against God" (Rom. 8:7).

For me, this is the supreme explanation of the problem of evil in this universe. We are sinners not because we did something wrong, but rather, deep beyond our genetic make-up, we have a sinful nature.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't put words that I do not say. On the one hand, Satan tempts man; on the other hand, man has a free will. Again, man having a free will to choose.

My response was to say it is man's responsibility too in his choice. Yet, it is not born out of ignorance or forgetfulness.

The reading of the text in Gen 3:1-5 shows that both Adam and Eve knew or lack of the better term, were knowledgeable of the destiny of eating either tree.

1 Did God really say, You shall not eat of any tree of the garden?

2 And the woman said to the serpent, Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat;

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, You shall not eat of it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.

4 And the serpent said to the woman, You shall not surely die!

5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will become like God, knowing good and evil.

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make oneself wise, she took of its fruit and ate; and she also gave some to her husband with her, and he ate.

The first fall not only brought about by man, but by a source other than man—the serpent, that is, the Devil, Satan, the enemy of God.

And yes, God is merciful and forgiving but He is also righteous. He provided the way of salvation, the seed of the woman as the gospel.

The problem is not that God is not merciful and forgiving, but rather today's people are NOT willing to take the way of salvation revealed in the Bible.

This post has been edited by pehkay: May 12 2015, 07:43 PM

double post ;P

This post has been edited by pehkay: May 12 2015, 07:43 PM

Nice quote, but did I not say Believe AND Repent?

Actually, the proper context of the passage is Faith that is proven by works of righteousness, not righteousness through works.

A reading of the Amplified version will make it clearer.



on the rest of your post, I agree, I did not ask to be born with the sin nature, unfortunately I am.

YET, though I am born with the sin nature, I am not left without a remedy!

15 But God’s free gift is not at all to be compared to the trespass [His grace is out of all proportion to the fall of man]. For if many died through one man’s falling away (his lapse, his offense), much more profusely did God’s grace and the free gift [that comes] through the undeserved favor of the one Man Jesus Christ abound and overflow to and for [the benefit of] many. Romans 5:15

We go round and round the mulberry bush arguing over a situation neither You or I can change, namely,

a) we are alive.
b) we are stuck in this situation (sin)
c) we will die
d) provision is made for us to escape this death
e) the condition is believe and repent

Not fair?


Maybe, from OUR perspective, it is not fair.
Maybe from a greater perspective, when ALL factors are taken into consideration it is more than fair.

But I want to shift our focus to something else.

We are straining at the gnats and swallowing the camels if we do not give due consideration to the positive changes that takes place in people who truly trust Jesus and have their lives changed as a consequence.

Why argue over what could or could not be true and ignore the living proof right in front of our eyes?

Just yesterday, a sister testified (with a medical report, no less) on how her nephew was cured of cancer.
If all these are just co incidences, then, even then, isn't it worthwhile to trust in Jesus?
Because if it is just co incidence, then christians are the luckiest people alive.

I know, most people ... even Christian tends to come to this conclusion. It is a pity for Christian to have this kind of view

But what if, God's intention in creating man was to express Him and represent Him (Gen 1:26). In this case, God desired a ruling man, a man who would rule upon this earth; then He would be satisfied. It is because an angel of light rebelled against God before man's creation and became the devil: Satan sinned and fell; the Daystar became the enemy of God (Isa. 14:12-15). God, therefore, withdrew His authority from the enemy and put it, instead, into the hand of man. The reason God created man is that man may rule in the place of Satan. What abounding grace we see in God's creation of man!

However, if God were to deal with Satan directly, it would not be a shame to Satan, nor would it be a glory to God. Satan might say to God, “There is no creature who would submit to Your authority.” Thus, God keeps a principle of not dealing with Satan directly. God is the Creator; He will not deal with His creatures in His status of Creator. Therefore, He created another creature—man. His desire is that man would stand in the position of a creature to deal with Satan, another creature. God’s intention is to show Satan that there is a creature who is subject to God’s authority and who chooses to stand on God’s side. Although Satan as a creature rebels against God, there is another creature who submits to God’s authority.

God wants to use man to deal with His enemy, and He created man for this purpose. God wants the creature to deal with the creature. He wants His creature man to deal with His fallen creature Satan in order to bring the earth back to God. The man whom He created is being used by Him for this purpose.

If God have reset or start over, then what a loss. Out of the devil's utter destruction of God's purpose, God will work out His salvation to produce the church as His ultimate masterpiece ( Ephesians 2:10). God will regenerate, renew, sanctified, transform, conform and glorified man from the deepest death and sinful to be His masterpiece, the church, to be the warrior to deal and judge Him as a creature for God's need.

The first man failed with the temptation to be divine but the Jesus, the second man was victorious.

“If You are the Son of God, speak that these stones may become loaves of bread” (Matt. 4:3). It was as if Satan were saying to Jesus, “God appointed You and declared that You were His beloved Son, the Son of God, when You were standing in the waters of baptism. If You are such a Son of God, give the word for these stones to become loaves of bread.”

I believe we would have failed such a test. We would have performed a miracle to display to everyone that we are the sons of God. But if the Lord had done this, it would have been against the base of His baptism. He came to the wilderness to be tempted as a man, not as the Son of God. The Son of God is just God Himself. Who can tempt God? Jesus was a man in the wilderness. As God Himself, could He be hungry? With God there is no hunger, but as a man Jesus was hungry. Satan’s stratagem was to tempt Jesus to ignore His standing as a man and to assume His position as the Son of God. So the Lord answered him by saying, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that proceeds out through the mouth of God’” (v. 4). He defeated the enemy by His standing as a man.

After the devil’s first stratagem, his temptation of the first God-man changed somewhat (Matt. 4:5-7). He brought Jesus to the wing of the temple, a very high place. The tempter said to Jesus, “If You are the Son of God, cast Yourself down; for it is written, ‘To His angels He shall give charge concerning You, and on their hands they shall bear You up, lest You strike Your foot against a stone’” (v. 6). This was a temptation enticing Jesus to show that as the Son of God He was able to act miraculously.

The first one was to tempt the Lord to ignore His position as a man and to assume His divine position as the Son of God by performing a miracle. When this did not work, the devil tried to make Him assume His position in divinity to display His power and His authority by having a miracle of protection by the angels. But the first God-man overcame His subtle tempter by saying, “You shall not test the Lord your God” (v. 7), indicating strongly that He was a man before God who should not test the Lord His God. Not to test means not to tempt. He, the first God-man, stood on the ground of a creature, recognizing that God was His Lord. He declared, “I shall not tempt My Lord. He is My Lord.” In being tempted the Lord had at least three statuses: first He was a man, second a creature, and third the Son of God. As a man, He could not test His Lord.

In Satan's third subtle temptation of the Lord, he offered the earthly kingdoms and their glory to the first God-man as a bait to hook Him so that He would worship him as God and serve him as his subordinate. But the first God-man saw through the evil tempter’s devilish device and conquered him by chasing him away and telling him in a shaming way that as a man before God He would worship God and serve Him only.

Don't you love Him

P.S. If you notice, the 3 temptations also corresponds to Eve's temptations

This post has been edited by pehkay: May 12 2015, 09:33 PM

Yup.

Lust of the Flesh
Lust of the Eyes
Pride of Life

I was countering your claim that "spirit represents goodness while mind represents corruption". I'm not arguing that sin/nasty tendency is not in us.
Good thoughts or evil thoughts are both part of the mental network. Not to say they co-exist but rather arise on different time and conditions.
Is there any chance that you think the "mind" is something static?




"Knowledge" and "realization" has depth to it. What Adam/Eve portrayed in Genesis 3 is immature knowledge. It is like a child by the mother's advice does know that smoking is harmful and addictive. But until the child had personally experience the ill consequence himself or witness others suffering from it or something similar, his knowledge remains shallow and are prone to go against those advice given the right stimulating condition.

Not to say children, even many adult failed to get rid of their addiction despite having realized its consequence. So it comes down to being mindful or forgetful. When i say forgetful i don't mean one totally forget about certain things for a long period but rather has to do with the failure to recall the right thing at the right moment.

If one were to do some introspection, one will know that thought arise one at a time and ceases in a split second before proliferating to other thoughts. An alcoholic for example might make a vow to stop drinking when he is sober but moments later changes his mind when triggered by some sensation as a result of addictive ill effects or mental habits.

Freewill is nonsense. One might be free to act upon a will but the will/intention is always triggered and restricted by conditions. For example, you can choose to delete your post but that will to delete arises as a result of conditioning by many factors. The perception that tells you double posting does not look good... again has its historical sequence of cause and conditions. Imagine if you were to be critically busy or failed to notice it or have a highly "cincai" personality, that will/intention to delete might not even manifest.

This post has been edited by loud: May 12 2015, 09:59 PM

Like i mentioned before in my reply to unknown warrior, such so called miracles are not exclusive to Christians. The Muslims, Buddhist, Sin Tua, Hindu...all have their version of testimony.

So you think we should just keep arguing round and round the mulberry bush?

To what purpose then?

edit:

I hesitated to quote this but I think it should be said

Then the LORD spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying, “When Pharaoh speaks to you, saying, ‘Show a miracle for yourselves,’ then you shall say to Aaron, ‘Take your rod and cast it before Pharaoh, and let it become a serpent.’ ” So Moses and Aaron went in to Pharaoh, and they did so, just as the LORD commanded. And Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh and before his servants, and it became a serpent. But Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers; so the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments. For every man threw down his rod, and they became serpents. But Aaron’s rod swallowed up their rods. And Pharaoh’s heart grew hard, and he did not heed them, as the LORD had said. (‭Exodus‬ ‭7‬:‭8-13‬ NKJV)

This post has been edited by yaokb: May 13 2015, 09:37 AM

Hi, i want to ask about tithing... Must 10% of your income... or just a tactic for churches to survive ?

how to put that, if you're able to give 10% of your income then you are encouraged to tithe......but however not everyone can really follow the 10% tithe

Must give ? And when give then floodgates of heavens will open ....if dont give then no floodgates of blessing open ?
I'm a christian, but sometimes when i hear these kind of statements...really makes me think. Does it mean that God wont bless me if i dont tithe ? I understand that churches need funds to survive...rental..maintenance..costs..etc...

This post has been edited by ultra_nyamuk: May 13 2015, 12:30 AM

it's written in the bible but if you can give then give lar it's not going toward church but toward the welfare of the church and do remember that the church office workers including pastors are paid by your tithe, as well as monthly electrical and water bills as well as maintenance workers

nobody can force you to give straight away 10% you can start giving little by little, let say you earn 3k per month so if 10% is too much for you to give you can maybe start with less than 10% first?

Can i know what's written in the bible... Help enlighten me.. im a bit lost..

ok, i just looked into it tithing is in the old testament but not necessary in new testament but give what you can give like blessing other in need...

http://www.christianbiblereference.org/faq_tithe.htm

https://www.gci.org/law/tithing

http://www.gotquestions.org/tithing-Christian.html