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 The Official Lowyat.NET Sintua Thread, A thread on Chinese folk religion.

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SUSredisthcan
post Jun 21 2015, 01:12 AM

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QUOTE(sales.convenience @ Jun 21 2015, 12:53 AM)
Bro Natch has surely conveyed much of the needed to be said information readily available.

I shall post a link here to a Taiwanese program that emphasizes on various temples in Taiwan as well as TWO temples from Malaysia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXl9sDSuh4w
Thank you kindly, Sales. rclxms.gif

The Johor Old Temple, which features in the video, is a magnificent establishment over a century old, primarily dedicated to Lord Xuan Wu. It is located in Johor Baru's Jalan Tuas area; visiting it would be well worth your while, people.

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SUSredisthcan
post Jun 22 2015, 02:14 AM

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Who are the Bamboo Warriors?

The Zhu Jun/竹军 or Bamboo Warriors are often lumped under the '阴神' or Netherworld deities umbrella, although in fact they strictly speaking are not. While often commanded by Hell beings, they do not actually originate from Hell. Rather, they are shadowy spirit creatures, nature spirits, if you will, of a semi-neutral disposition.

They dwell mostly within old-growth plants and trees (such as bamboo, hence their name), but also inhabit other deserted or wilderness areas. They can be summoned by deities to provide extra security detail and labour during major ceremonies and other sizable ritual events - mercenaries or casual workers of sorts, you could say.

Shoots of thick bamboo are used as anchor objects for them to manifest, or to house them (see first pic below). The bamboo shoots are placed in the five cardinal directions of North, South, East, West and Centre during the abovementioned ceremonies and rituals, thus assigning the warriors to work within each relevant sector (see second pic below).

user posted image

user posted image
SUSredisthcan
post Jun 23 2015, 08:21 PM

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Today is the birthday of the Black and White Brothers.

This is me raising a toast to them. rclxm9.gif

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SUSredisthcan
post Jun 25 2015, 07:59 AM

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QUOTE(EnergyAnalyst @ Jun 24 2015, 09:38 AM)
Are they they only spirit that inhabits trees/plants not necessary bamboos. Do they co-exist with others ?
*
Spirits that inhabit plants can be of many different types.

Some are spirits of dead people.

Others are non human spirits - elemental beings, animal spirits, nature spirits, earth deities, and so on.

The Bamboo Troopers belong to the second category, and are considered to be a homogeneous type of spirit creature - a distinct 'species', if you will.

They could potentially coexist with other types, but have a wild streak that would probably rule this out in most cases.

And yes, they can inhabit all sorts of old growth plants, although bamboo is their favourite haunt.
SUSredisthcan
post Jun 25 2015, 12:18 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Jun 25 2015, 11:07 AM)
That's interesting, because usually in old growth plants, usually there's already a shrine to Datuk Gong.
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Datuks fall under the earth deities/nature spirits category.

Not all old growth plants are inhabited by Datuks, by the way.

They may harbour spirits from any category, or even not harbour spirits at all.
SUSredisthcan
post Jun 25 2015, 12:24 PM

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QUOTE(EnergyAnalyst @ Jun 25 2015, 11:49 AM)
in that case, if one really need to cut down tree/bamboo, what one ought to do to in order not to offence the spirits but at the same time eradicate any these spirits' dwelling place?

or this should be a work only can be tasked to a medium?
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What do you want to eradicate their dwelling places for?

Most spirits are quite content to keep themselves to themselves and not poke their noses in our affairs.

If you have a tree in your garden that spirits inhabit, but they do nothing to bother you, my advice would be to leave them be and peacefully co-exist.

That being said, if you absolutely have to clear some old-growth plants, make an apology to whomever resides in them, set out offerings for them and make provision to accommodate them someplace else - by planting new trees nearby, for instance.
SUSredisthcan
post Jun 25 2015, 08:52 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Jun 25 2015, 03:05 PM)
Eh...wasn't it mentioned before that Datuks are mostly historical Malay figures?
Would that really be incompatible with them being earth deities/nature spirits?

Not at all, if you ask me.
SUSredisthcan
post Jun 26 2015, 01:26 AM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Jun 26 2015, 01:12 AM)
How so? Being an earth deity is more like the Taoist concept of Tu Di Gong. Unless...what the Guai Tan series said is true hehe...that local masters after their death can become the local Tu Di Gong.
Guai Tan may be a load of crap for the most part, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. tongue.gif

Datuks and Tu Di Gong are somewhat similar in terms of their origins and roles, yes. And the spirit of a local worthy or hero indeed has a shot at becoming the tutelary deity of his area, provided he gains sufficient spiritual influence.

This post has been edited by nachtsider: Jun 26 2015, 03:14 AM
SUSredisthcan
post Jun 27 2015, 11:02 PM

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QUOTE(blek @ Jun 27 2015, 12:13 PM)
hello guys,
need a little help here

How to worship a 关二哥?
any specifice date or just chinese calender 初一 and 初十五?
what i need to prepare for the worship? chicken? siew yuk?
is 关二哥 vegetarian?

user posted image
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Hello blek,

Lord Guan is considered to be a Dharma protector by certain Buddhist sects, a view that Chinese folk religion devotees generally agree with; we therefore offer him vegetarian items only, along with standard incense.

His sacred dates include the 13th day of the 1th lunar month (the date of his ascension), the 13th day of the 5th lunar month (the date he attained enlightenment, which falls tomorrow this year, on the 28th of June) and the 24th day of the 6th lunar month (his birthday); we hold feasts in his honour on these occasions.

The 1st and 15th days of each month are also appropriate times to present him with special treats.

Nachty
SUSredisthcan
post Jun 28 2015, 01:17 AM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Jun 28 2015, 12:32 AM)
But wine, sacrificing a black ox and white horse should be fine since he swore the 'Oath of Peach Garden' in the Romance of the 3 Kingdoms, right?
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Like I said, he has now embraced the Dharma.

Those days are behind him.
SUSredisthcan
post Jun 28 2015, 10:49 PM

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QUOTE(Havoc Knightmare @ Jun 28 2015, 11:07 AM)
Hi Nachtsider,

I've been lurking around this thread for some months so thought I should drop by to say hi.

Let me just share a bit about myself. I'm a banana and was raised in a fundamentalist Christian family in Klang Valley although I identify as agnostic nowadays. My only interaction with Sintua practices was during my relatives' funerals, which never made any sense due to the language barrier.

Thanks for all the in depth elaboration in polished English, I finally understand what was previously incomprehensible mumbo-jumbo to me. Relatives could give me no satisfactory answer when I asked, with tradition just something to be blindly adhered to.

I would consider myself somewhat of an anthropologist so after stumbling across this thread, I find reading about what you have been sharing about Chinese folk religion very fascinating and have been doing more reading on my own.

For instance, take the practice of datuk worship, since it was obviously a practice rooted in traditional Malay society but since eradicated with the advent of a more conservative brand of Islam. I find it intriguing that the Malaysian Chinese community has adopted and syncretized the practice while many Malays are not aware of its roots.
Hi Havoc, I'm glad you've found my thread to be enlightening and informative. Please feel free to ask any burning or unanswered questions regarding the subject matter; I'm more than willing to answer whatever you have on your mind. Blind adherence to tradition without properly comprehending the reasons behind said tradition is an attitude I absolutely deplore, as it does nothing but perpetuate ignorance and turn meaningful practices into mindless rigmarole. I prefer to adopt the educational approach and detail things in full, so as to instil both comprehension and appreciation in those who are interested, and thus ensure that the relevant knowledge is not lost.

Datuk worship is very much the darling of anthropologists and socio-cultural scholars, given its uniquely syncretic nature. At the bedrock of this practice lies the acknowledgement by Chinese immigrants that their newfound homeland is Malay property, and that the Malay nature spirits who are its keepers warrant reverence as its owners, in exchange for their blessings to utilise the land and its resources. A spiritual gentleman's agreement if there ever was one, and a shining example of racial, religious and cultural harmony. biggrin.gif
SUSredisthcan
post Jun 29 2015, 09:17 PM

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QUOTE(Hean @ Jun 28 2015, 05:41 PM)
So, they are the ones who started everything?

Are these based on folklore or were they revealed during trances, etc?
Deities who manifest during trances do refer to or otherwise acknowledge the San Qing; the talismans they issue often feature markings that represent this divine triumvirate (take a look at the one below - see the three tick symbols at the top).

I would regard their acknowledgement of the San Qing to be enough indication that (1) they exist and that (2) they were, indeed, responsible for what they are said to be responsible for.

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SUSredisthcan
post Jun 29 2015, 09:28 PM

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QUOTE(JunJun04035 @ Jun 29 2015, 02:12 AM)
Go drive along chinese populated places, and in chance you will find a Datuk Gong Temple with their malay name in tact  laugh.gif
Here's a case in point; look at the placard above these Datuk statues. biggrin.gif

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SUSredisthcan
post Jun 29 2015, 09:43 PM

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QUOTE(Havoc Knightmare @ Jun 29 2015, 01:46 PM)
Natchsider, can you verify if Datuk worship in its present form is a Malaysian Chinese "invention" as Yeeck is implying or, adopted "as is" from the historical Malay community. Like, historically did the Malays build shrines and made offerings?
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Datuk worship in its present incarnation has incorporated quite a number of Chinese influences; the use of statues to represent the Datuks, for instance, which Chinese devotees incorporated in order to clearly, visually differentiate the Malay Datuks from the rest of the Chinese pantheon.

This is not something the original Malay worshipers subscribed to; they preferred to use the Datuks' abodes themselves (rocks, trees, their grave sites, etc) as focuses of worship.

Incense sticks are not something that the original Malay worshipers used, either; they opted to burn benzoin resin, a.ka. kemayan, instead; Chinese Datuk worshipers do use it on occasion.

Trance mediumship of Datuks, while it did occur in Malay Datuk worship, certainly did not happen on as widespread a basis as in Chinese Datuk worship, given how trance mediumship is so significant an element of Chinese folk religion.

But offerings such as shredded tobacco, pulut kunyit, areca nut flakes and betel leaves are passovers from the Malay Datuk worshiping era that Chinese Datuk worshipers opted to retain in an unmodified form.
SUSredisthcan
post Jul 3 2015, 04:53 AM

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QUOTE(Wolves @ Jun 30 2015, 09:25 PM)
Sorry, I am a few days late and I have been missing for quite a while from here smile.gif I just want to point out something here about "offering"/"Sacrifice". I am of course not talking in the sense of "sintua" religion but since "sintua" is a local adaptation from the buddism and places heavy focus on the dharma, therefore what the dharma says will have some significance. In buddism, NO FORMS OF OFFERING THAT REQUIRES TAKING ANOTHER LIFE IS ALLOWED! smile.gif For whatever reason, for whomever it is, for whatever excuse nor logic there may be, NO KILLING is allowed. And that is how one person can differentiate if the "spirit" is good or evil. ANY GOOD spirit will NEVER ASK YOU TO KILL AS SACRIFICE TO THEM! and those who "does", they are EVIL spirits/deities to begin with. ALL SPIRITS have some limited abilites (most are limited but there are some powerful ones that have abilities without limits) depending on a few things. There are no exception to the NO KILLING AS SACRIFICE rule. Its just makes the person who does the killing accumulate bad karma and no GOOD spirits/deities/protectors will want that.

However, I have to point out another thing which is about "wine". As I say above, Sintua religion is a local "adaptation" of buddism. As BUDDIST, of coz wine is to be avoided but these are what called presepts and are with exception and so on (ie, erm... how to say so i dont sound bad... its like ponteng sekolah.. not good but if you did it... you wont be "expelled" terus and you can redeem yourself if you can give good excuses? forgivable "sin" depending on "why" you did it? hmmm... anyway.. dont do it if you can!). But as a MONK you MUST follow the precepts (200 plus of it.. not the normal 5 for layman only). And as the sintua religion, it seems they are "ok" with wine and depending on the "spirit"/"deity's" character, wine is a norm (not all as some are stricter on themself". So, you must really know the deity well. Not all are "ok" with wine.

Natch, am i right? tongue.gif
Kinda sorta. tongue.gif

As previously mentioned, sintua is an amalgamation of some Buddhist beliefs and some Taoist beliefs, albeit interpreted slightly differently from actual Buddhism and Taoism, and combined with a number of unique elements (e.g. trance mediumship and the worship of certain deities), as well.

The overarching sintua doctrine does not place restrictions on the killing of animals for food or in self-defense; however, it takes into consideration the principles, religious or otherwise, that the individual gods adhere to (Datuks are Islamic, for instance, and require halal food; while entities such as Guan Yin, Ksitigarbha, the Monkey King and Shan Cai have embraced Buddhism and strictly abide by its precepts).

Devotees are advised to bear these principles firmly in mind, and act accordingly during worship of certain deities with religious dietary restrictions or other taboos.

So yes, you must know your deities, their likes and their dislikes as intimately as possible. nod.gif
SUSredisthcan
post Jul 3 2015, 05:11 PM

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QUOTE(iamoracle @ Jul 2 2015, 04:12 PM)
The information in this thread is a real eye-opener to me. Thanks so much for sharing with us.

Back to talismans, is there an expiry date attached to it?  My mother always told me that it need to be "renewed" yearly i.e. seeking a fresh new one from deity yearly.

Please enlighten me. Thank you.
Some talismans require replacement, correct.

Others merely require 'recharging'.

The expiry date varies from talisman to talisman, and from issuing deity to issuing deity,

And others yet, need not be replaced or recharged at all.
SUSredisthcan
post Jul 4 2015, 05:05 PM

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QUOTE(sales.convenience @ Jul 3 2015, 05:52 PM)


玄天上帝

威嚴女身男相古老體態
wink.gif
Rare to see a female medium channeling a male deity, especially such a deity of such intense Yang energy as Lord Xuan Wu - not all female mediums are capable of doing this without suffering adverse effects.

She pulls it off with incredible poise, grace and regality. notworthy.gif
SUSredisthcan
post Jul 5 2015, 01:31 PM

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QUOTE(Guenhwyvar @ Jul 5 2015, 01:47 AM)
Hi, there has anyone heard of "Japanese buddha"? I would like to know more about it. Though I heard from stories that, he/she does grant your wishes but there are consequences. Anyone has info on it? Thanks.  smile.gif
Consequences, you say.

That doesn't sound very Buddhist-like to me; Buddhist doctrine focuses on altruism.
SUSredisthcan
post Jul 6 2015, 10:52 AM

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QUOTE(Guenhwyvar @ Jul 5 2015, 02:19 PM)
I have only heard about it, apparently it will be on the altar covered with yellow cloth. Just curious about it.  unsure.gif
I can't think of anything within Chinese folk religion that's even remotely similar, sorry.
SUSredisthcan
post Jul 10 2015, 09:29 AM

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QUOTE(Guenhwyvar @ Jul 7 2015, 12:43 PM)
Hey man, you are right it might not be a Buddha. But that's what they called it here (Penang). So I was directly translating it. I think Nacht's won't mind as long as it doesn't turn into a ghost stories thread (haunted bungalows) as there are worshipers who worship it.  icon_rolleyes.gif  laugh.gif
I don't mind the occasional ghost story.

A good number of the Hell deities are ghosts, after all, so it would not be entirely off-topic to discuss ghosts here. tongue.gif

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