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 The Official Lowyat.NET Sintua Thread, A thread on Chinese folk religion.

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SUSredisthcan
post Apr 30 2015, 11:11 PM

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QUOTE(estcin @ Apr 30 2015, 05:40 PM)
Really enjoyed reading this. Thanks for educating. Didn't really know the procedures when praying in temple. Few questions here:

1. The dead will have his soul collected by the Hell guards. Who is subject to this? All Chinese ppl or only Buddhist/Taoist? What about Christians or atheist Chinese?

2. Why does it always rain during 9 Emperor God time?

3. I went to a temple and there is a white Dog/Wolf statue. Wonder what is the story about the dog? Is it named 天狗?

4. Just to share my own experience. I went to Thean Hou Temple with my friends to ask for guidance (Kau Chim) and I got a not so good chim (with a number that i forgot). The next week I went again with another group of friends and I tried again, hoping to get better results. But the same number came out, I was stunned. Means one cannot run away from his fate.

What about fortune tellers who can tell ur future by seeing ur birth dates. Are they any how related to sin tua? They are releasing secrets of the sky aren't they?
Hi estcin, I'm glad you've enjoyed what has been posted here so far. Do stick around; I intend to keep the fun and educational times rolling indefinitely. biggrin.gif

Here are the answers to your questions:

1. Everyone goes to the same Hell, which people of different races, religions and cultures perceive differently. The same way people of different races, religions and cultures perceive the same gods differently and know them by different names, although their core characteristics are retained.

The Hell beings don't care if you're an atheist or if you don't believe them; they'll come to pick you up all the same. As long as you become a dead soul, you fall under their jurisdiction.

The Chinese Hell is not a Taoist concept, by the way. Taoism has no concept of Hell. It is a folk concept for the most part, with some Buddhist influences.

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2. The Nine Emperors have several different origin stories. One of these states that they are personifications of nine stars that form the Northern Dipper constellation - the cardinal direction of North is associated with the element of Water. Another states that they were nine great admirals of the Ming Dynasty, who waged war against the invading Manchus.

Whichever the origin story you subscribe to, the association of the Nine Emperors with the Watery element is fixed and constant. The Nine Emperor Gods festival is celebrated near the sea, as it is believed that they arrive via the waterways, with rain heralding their arrival and departure.

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3. The Heavenly Dog/天狗 is a baleful stellar creature that is often blamed for various misfortunes, including miscarriages and the premature death of children, and is thus placated to avoid calamity. It is also said to be the pet of Lord Er Lang, the Jade Emperor's nephew and one of the Five Camp Commanders, whom I have spoken about earlier (Er Lang is the patron saint and protector of all canine animals). Some sources state that he actually has an entire pack of these monstrous Doberman-like beasts, which makes more sense, given that his earliest origins are as a god of hunting.

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4. I would like to highlight the fact that one's fate is NOT set in stone. You are not a puppet dancing to a pre-written script; you write the script as you go along.

To draw a lot that warns of calamity, or to be told by a fortune teller that bad luck is around the corner, does not mean that you will definitely meet with misfortune. Take whatever precautions can be taken, and you may very well avoid it.

Fortune telling/divination is merely based on whatever factors have been influencing your predicament right up until that point in time - punch in a different set of factors and a totally different set of equations emerges. It's all about probabilities; no 'Heavenly secrets' are involved or being disclosed.

The bottom line is that the future is completely malleable. The only thing that cannot be altered is past events.
SUSredisthcan
post May 1 2015, 12:12 AM

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QUOTE(estcin @ Apr 30 2015, 11:41 PM)
Thanks for the info with the furnished photos for better understanding.
Further question. Some ppl are "adopted" by some of the gods, mainly Guan Yin. How does this adoption works? My friend when he was very young was adopted by Er Lang Shen. He was too young to remember and then his parents divorced. He followed the father and later became Christian. Then he grew up and said he had dreams about this "3-eyed" guy. He later found out about the adoption from his mum tongue.gif
The deities select as their godchildren people whom they see as being in need of extra TLC. Perhaps the person might be sickly, or prone to being disturbed by evil spirits. Godchild status is rarely lifelong, if ever. When the person improves to the point where they can fend for themselves, their godchild status comes to an end. But this does not imply total abandonment.

Godchildren are traditionally expected to be in regular contact with their godparents throughout the adoption period, and closely adhere to whatever taboos are associated with their godparents.
SUSredisthcan
post May 1 2015, 07:35 AM

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QUOTE(estcin @ May 1 2015, 12:29 AM)
Thanks again Nacht. Really learned a lot from this thread. Before this I was told a temple nearby is praying to "ghosts" which are actually the Hell deities as their faces look scary. Previously misunderstood and I thought the temple is doing some black magic or evil sorcery. Now this clears up after I understand thei Hell deities job and role.

More questions, if you don't mind:
1. Is gambling allowed in temple? they seem to do that often.
2. The temple provides service for 打小人 on certain dates. How does this works?
*
It is not wrong to refer to the Hell deities as ghosts, because that is what a lot of them are - undead/ghostly beings.

A visiting boy once referred to the resident Hell deity at my teacher's temple using the term 无常鬼 or Unpredictable Phantom, which prompted his mother to loudly chastise him, stating that using the term '鬼' was impolite.

The Hell deity told the woman to be quiet and stop giving her son a hard time. "The boy is not incorrect. I am what I am; I know what I am. And I appreciate people who call a spade a spade."

Lots of people still wrongly regard the Hell beings as creatures of ill-omen given their association with death, however, and undeservedly give them a wide berth - I have people give me wary or fearful looks when I tell them I worship them in the home or when I buy Hell-related items or supplies at my local prayer material shop, and there are temples where they are enshrined that are virtually empty most of the time, due to people not daring to enter. doh.gif

1. Yes, you can gamble in a temple, provided the gambling is 'friendly' or casual, as in if no bets are placed or if the bets are very trivial.

Here are some Hell deities, being channelled by their mediums, playing a game of cards on temple premises (the bets were stacks of incense paper).

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2. The '打小人' or 'hitting small ('small' in this case this really means 'petty' or 'small-minded') people' ritual is a ritual geared towards ridding one's life of petty or malicious people. It is performed in conjunction with the Tiger Gods or Tiger Generals/虎爷公, the feline guardians of temples.

Us humans have guard dogs to guard our houses; temples have 'guard tigers' - every temple or sintua will have at least one Tiger God on retainer, usually placed in the same alcove where the Earth God is enshrined, as only a very few individuals, including that sweet old man, are able to tame its savage nature. The Tiger God is regarded as a ferocious beast that can drive away malign influences.

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The ritual involves beating paper cut-out figures, which represent people who have been giving you a hard time, with a slipper or other item of footwear, whilst certain incantations are being chanted and certain offerings are made (this can differ slightly from temple to temple), following which the paper figures are pasted up in the Tiger God's alcove for him to 'devour'.

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It is important to realise that the ritual is NOT geared towards harming your tormentors - it is geared at purging them from your life, stopping them from bothering you. Wishing harm towards them during the ritual is, in actual fact, a surefire way of making it either fail or backfire upon yourself.

Examples of petty people being purged from the lives of those who conducted this ritual are the rude and arrogant supervisor who ended up being transferred to another company branch far, far away, the quarrelsome neighbour who emigrated, the abusive teacher who lost his job when his abuse was reported to the authorities by another of his victimised students, and so on. Done correctly, this thing can be pretty darned effective.

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SUSredisthcan
post May 5 2015, 07:07 AM

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QUOTE(estcin @ May 4 2015, 11:37 PM)
Nacht, regarding your story when u were chased by ghosts when u were young. U believed u could have died. How does a ghost technically kill a human?

I heard before my friend's uncle was hospitalised with unknown sickness. Even doctor can't find out the cause of sickness and said he has only 1 week left to live. So they brought a sifu to visit the uncle. Apparently, the uncle was disturbed by some spirit and the sifu chased it away. The surprised doctor then said it's a miracle he survived.
Ghosts can exert influence upon the physical realm (e.g. making themselves visible to humans, speaking to/communicating with humans, moving objects, etc), although doing so requires energy expenditure on their part, which is why most ghostly encounters are quite mild - even the very act of making themselves visible to humans necessitates a ghost to expend energy, which each ghost only has a limited pool of.

Certain ghosts have larger energy pools than others; a ghost can derive strength from its emotions (e.g. from its sadness or its rage, if it died a wrongful death), from feeding off living creatures (which is why people sometimes feel weak or fatigued after encountering ghosts - they have had their vitality sapped), or from anchor objects (objects that hold significance to them in some way, which they can draw power from or use to help themselves manifest - an anchor object can even take the form of another person, a loved one).

A ghost with a large enough energy pool can use it to exert harmful influence upon a human, including interfering with said human's physical, mental and spiritual faculties - this can present as physical illness (your uncle's case), or even mental illness/behavioural problems.

If the ghost keeps up this onslaught for long enough, it can definitely kill its victim - either directly, via physical illness, or indirectly (e.g. driving the victim to suicide).
SUSredisthcan
post May 6 2015, 08:13 AM

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QUOTE(estcin @ May 5 2015, 12:07 PM)
Thanks Nacht. No wonder they say woman suicide in red cloth is more powerful.
*
QUOTE(yeeck @ May 5 2015, 02:18 PM)
I always wondered why a woman who died wearing red is more powerful...could it be because "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned"? LOL
People who commit suicide when wearing red become powerful vengeful spirits?

Spoiler: they don't, lol.

This legend was born of cases in the distant past where victims of murders and suicides were buried or cremated in their bloodstained clothing - cases from a time when last rites were performed on the day of death itself, and when people could not afford fancy garments to bury or burn their loved ones in.

When these victims returned to seek vengeance, it was assumed that the bloodstained clothing served as a reminder of the way they died, a reminder that filled them with rage and sorrow, preventing them from moving on - an anchor object of sorts.

It's somewhat possible that the bloodstained clothing could have functioned as such, yes; but what TRULY makes you become a powerful, vengeful spirit is your drive to seek revenge, plus the emotions that spur you to do so.

Over time, some smart alec distorted the facts of the matter into the whole 'red clothes' thing, a statement that does really not hold any water. shakehead.gif

Someone who wrongfully dies when dressed in red, or even in their bloodstained clothing, may not become a vengeful ghost at all.
SUSredisthcan
post May 13 2015, 09:01 PM

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QUOTE(Wolves @ May 5 2015, 09:11 PM)
Actually I do not think it just "ends" as per se after you are strong enough or reach adulthood and the deity will continue to look after you. Its the same as having a dad and when you are younger you "seek" his attention and he pay more attention to you but as you grow up into adulthood you talk less and interact less (remember to treat your dad nicely). And as i say, you are linked with that deity and that deity will continue to look after you. Just that you grew stronger and doesnt really need to rely on them. I believe the "ties" will not be broken at all.

When a child is having some difficulties or problem, as the example given by nachtsider such as sickly, prone to being disturbed by evil spirits (usually manifest with signs like nightly crying, screaming, restlessness, easily startled and so on), normally the parents will be asked to seek the temple's help. The temple will see (depends on the temple, some might use date of birth and consult a special book, some can terus "see" and tell, some consult "sifu" or totem master or consult a medium and the list goes on) and they will then tell you which deity (or deities, it could be more than one) or what you need to do to help. It could be none deity. I seen a guy whom needs a "Datuk", as in a title Datuk and after find one whom willing to accept him as his godson, the kid's body automatically become better and the illness does not really come back. Anyway, most of these cases usually involves deity or deities.

Some might ask, if there is why is there more than one? and in this case, how to know which one to find? Depending on the "problem" the child faces, some of the problems can be solved by a number of deities. For example, if due to "past" life or some sort of karma, one child is prone to be disturbed by "spirits", a lot of deities can help. The child might also face problem that only one deity can handle (that particular deity's area of specialty). Anyway, if a lot of deity can help, then the "affinity" of the child will be taken into consideration and even with the date of birth, there still might exist a few deities to choose from.

So, in that case how to know which deity to "choose"? Easy, go to the temple of the said deity and see if you got "fate". A case which i personally knew. A child has 3 deities that was recommended to the parents. The first day, the parents decided to bring to one of the temple whom host one of the deity. At the time of departure, it rains quite hard and due to the body condition of the child, the parents decided to call it off. Second day they decided to try a second temple but the condition of the child suddenly got worse and they call it off. On the third day, they decided to visit the third temple and everything went smoothly. After that i was told that it actually mean that the first two is not the one the child should seek but the third one is. This one is from experience and how I knew about these stuff but there is no hard evidence and mostly from hearsay from people in this area. But I above two cases I know them personally and that was what i was told.

so.... nachtsider. Am i right? tongue.gif
Right you are. smile.gif

As I mentioned prior, the bond is not completely lost and total abandonment never occurs. Your godparent will still be hovering in the wings with their ear to the ground, prepared to act at a moment's notice should things go south again, although he or she obviously does not hope for such an outcome to happen, not because they no longer care, but because you being able to proceed in life on your own two feet is what any parent would wish for their child.

And yes, the choice of godparent does hinge on certain physical, spiritual and mental parameters. Some gods may not be as good a 'fit' for certain people as others.
SUSredisthcan
post May 13 2015, 09:10 PM

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QUOTE(estcin @ May 13 2015, 01:36 PM)
A simlar story at the Indian temple in Mid Valley
And the Datuk shrine situated along Klang's Jalan Nanas. wink.gif
SUSredisthcan
post May 16 2015, 08:21 AM

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What is the purpose behind the miniature coffins that accompany the statues of Hell beings?

Earlier in the thread, I spoke about ghosts and anchor objects - objects that they can draw power from or use to help themselves manifest:

QUOTE(nachtsider @ May 5 2015, 07:07 AM)
Ghosts can exert influence upon the physical realm (e.g. making themselves visible to humans, speaking to/communicating with humans, moving objects, etc), although doing so requires energy expenditure on their part, which is why most ghostly encounters are quite mild - even the very act of making themselves visible to humans necessitates a ghost to expend energy, which each ghost only has a limited pool of.

Certain ghosts have larger energy pools than others; a ghost can derive strength from its emotions (e.g. from its sadness or its rage, if it died a wrongful death), from feeding off living creatures (which is why people sometimes feel weak or fatigued after encountering ghosts - they have had their vitality sapped), or from anchor objects (objects that hold significance to them in some way, which they can draw power from or use to help themselves manifest - an anchor object can even take the form of another person, a loved one).

A ghost with a large enough energy pool can use it to exert harmful influence upon a human, including interfering with said human's physical, mental and spiritual faculties - this can present as physical illness (your uncle's case), or even mental illness/behavioural problems.

If the ghost keeps up this onslaught for long enough, it can definitely kill its victim - either directly, via physical illness, or indirectly (e.g. driving the victim to suicide).
This brings us to the subject of the miniature coffins that can often be seen accompanying the statues of Hell deities, invariably those of a ghostly nature like the Black and White Brothers, the Filial Son, Ox-Head and Horse-Face, the Five Ghosties and so on.

These ideally accompany the statues on a one-coffin-to-one-statue basis, although some arrangements place the coffins separate from the statues, and certain small or low-budget layouts have several Hell deities sharing a single large coffin.

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These serve as anchor objects for the Hell deities, permitting them to manifest extra-quick and extra-easy in the vicinity of wherever such coffins are placed. They also provide the Hell deities with comfy havens to rest and restore their energy, similar to how Dracula and others of his kind required a coffin or earth box to recuperate after a night of hunting.

Within each coffin can be found a folded talisman bearing the name of the Hell deity to whom the coffin is assigned (multiple talismans if the coffin is shared), certain ritual items that energise the coffin, such as specially blessed coins or gold ingots (a symbol of the Hell beings' capability to reward the deserving), lengths or spools of thread (signifying the Thread of Life, a measure of human lifespan that the Hell beings hold sway over, similar to that spun by the Greek Fates) or abacus beads (the Hell beings use abacuses to calculate human merits, demerits and so on), plus a lining material to provide the Hell deity a comfortable 'bed' to rest on. In the old days, soil from the graveyard would constitute this lining material - cemetery soil is a potent Hell-related ritual tool, being the soil that is most imbued with the aura of death, and also the soil that is most fertile - although these days, things are often bowdlerised with the usage of rice grains or sugar instead.

The photos below illustrate a medium consecrating a miniature coffin, blessing the intended contents before placing them within, upon a layer of rice grains.

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SUSredisthcan
post May 16 2015, 04:31 PM

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QUOTE(dp82 @ May 16 2015, 04:23 PM)
Just curious, is there any possibility that a Hell Deities cross path with Heaven Deities?
It is more than just a mere possibility. wink.gif

Here is Tua Ya Pek/the White Phantom, a Hell deity, paying his respects to Lord Guan, a Heavenly god.

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SUSredisthcan
post May 17 2015, 11:02 AM

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QUOTE(dp82 @ May 16 2015, 06:04 PM)
Would they "fight"/ "argue" or they just do their own role/ job function?
Although they have different spheres of interest and different roles, they are all on the same side.

In fact, there are cases where Hell deities approach Heavenly gods for help with problems that are beyond their capability to solve, and sometimes vice versa.
SUSredisthcan
post May 18 2015, 08:03 AM

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Hi Chris, glad to know that my thread has proved enlightening and entertaining. Do feel free to stick around. biggrin.gif

QUOTE(chrisqck @ May 17 2015, 12:03 PM)
I'm a "cina kampung" from kelantan and born into these culture. When I was a boy, I really look forward to the festivities and celebrations that we would have in honour of these deities. I even looked forward to being "chopped" at the back of my old t-shirt with those "bloodied chops". (Back then I only know that it will protect me but thanks to this thread now I know why  laugh.gif ).
Getting your garments stamped with a deity's seal is one means by which you can obtain their protection, yes.

It is a more generalised form of blessing - the stamp does not confer as specialised a degree of divine assistance as a made-on-the-spot talisman, which is carefully tailored to address a specific problem, but effective in its own way.

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QUOTE(chrisqck @ May 17 2015, 12:03 PM)
We also looked forward to the event where 4 guys will carry a deity's statue on a "kio" and it will turn and turn. To the child me then, it was fascinating how 4 big burly guys could be subdued and put under control by a small statue. Just look at how they struggled to keep still.  ohmy.gif
The palanquin/kio is imbued with the divine essence of the deity whose statue is housed within; this divine essence can make its presence felt by making the palanquin move in certain directions and, by extension, move those who are carrying the palanquin, too.

However, the ideomotor effect does come into play, as well; authentic palanquin movements are usually on the subtle side, involving more gentle 'steering' and swaying rather than out-and-out leaping or juddering.

user posted image
SUSredisthcan
post May 18 2015, 09:33 AM

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QUOTE(estcin @ May 17 2015, 10:06 PM)
New query for Nacht. Why is that some people have the third eye and can see "things"? And how come children and kids are more prone to seeing "things"?
The second sight is an ability commonly unlocked following a near-death experience.

A census of people who possess the second sight will reveal that most, if not all, obtained it after a serious illness or some other close shave with death.

More rarely, one gains it after a significant (often prolonged and traumatic) ghostly encounter.

Coming into contact with the other side can result in a little bit of the other side rubbing off onto you.

Part of your spiritual wavelength now permanently reverberates with the frequency of the unseen realm after having immersed yourself in it for a brief time, thus permitting you to witness things from the unseen realm - that which others cannot.

If you do not have the second sight, you are largely confined to seeing otherworldly beings only when they allow you to see them, or when your spiritual wavelength temporarily reverberates with that of the unseen.

This temporary reverberation can happen when you are physically or mentally ill - the latter includes bouts of depression or even severe emotional stress.

There is also another category of people who fall somewhere in-between - who do not have the second sight, but are able to freely detect things to a less extreme degree from time to time, often 'feeling' the presence of such beings or hearing/smelling them rather than out-and-out seeing them.

We call them 'sensitive' - this category included my spiritual teacher, and (one could say) possibly even myself.

This sensitivity is obtained similarly to the second sight - I almost did not survive my birth and was a very sickly child before I started to have brushes with the supernatural, while my teacher was nearly killed in a very nasty motorcycle accident some years before he became a medium.

Sensitivity and the second sight can be undone via certain rituals, although it is difficult more often than not.

As for why children are prone to seeing the supernatural, this is partly due to them being closer to the period of pre-existence on the other side than fully grown adults are.

Some of them find it subconsciously difficult to let go of life (un-life?) in the spirit realm, thus making their spiritual wavelength continue reverberating with that of their former habitat.

Another explanation is that their spiritual auras, a cloak-like barrier that surrounds you and protects you to a certain degree from malign otherworldly influences, are not as developed.

This aura is something that strengthens as one matures, and can be weakened by physically or mentally traumatic experiences, similar to the temporary reverberation that I have mentioned above.

A weakened aura can also explain more frequent encounters with ghosts and other supernatural entities of ill-omen.

When one's immune system is weak, one gets sick more often - the aura acts as your spiritual immune system of sorts.

Again, through the performing of certain rituals, auras can be strengthened and persisting past ties with the realm beyond can be cut.
SUSredisthcan
post May 22 2015, 10:33 AM

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QUOTE(dp82 @ May 20 2015, 11:12 PM)
Who's that ah pek in a long white janggut?
The white-bearded elderly gentleman is Tua Pek Gong - the Wealth God aspect of the Earth God, whom I have spoken about earlier in this thread. smile.gif

user posted image
SUSredisthcan
post May 26 2015, 01:10 AM

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QUOTE(meistsh_musical @ May 26 2015, 12:30 AM)
i want to ask sintua heibaiwhchang can know our dead and life book?
Not even they will know for sure.

Your death is not a predetermined event.
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post May 28 2015, 05:29 PM

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QUOTE(sweetguy @ May 28 2015, 02:31 PM)
Hi Nach,
How many number of joss sticks that we use to pray to all these deities in heavenly, earthly and under world? I was told that different numbers of joss sticks. For example: Heavenly deities- 3 sticks, Earthly -5 sticks and underworld 7 sticks? Can you confirm?
Thks.
Hi sweetguy,

The number of incense sticks CAN indeed vary from type of deity to type of deity.

I have touched upon the subject earlier in the thread; the relevant section is quoted below for your reference, along with other notes on the protocol one should adhere to while praying in a temple or shrine.

Nacht smile.gif

QUOTE(nachtsider @ Jan 27 2015, 06:35 PM)
You have been taught the proper basic behaviour, which is highly commendable, although there certainly is more to the nuts-and-bolts of prayer.  notworthy.gif

I make it a point to be at my most presentable before attending a temple. This includes having a shower and putting on fresh clothes. If you are female, visiting a temple when you are menstruating is not advisable; menstrual blood, so heavy in yin energy, is a substance that confounds/contaminates the temple's spiritual 'ecosystem' and prevents rituals from being optimally conducted.

Certain taboos exist where it comes to certain deities, and one should be mindful to adhere to them. For instance, one should not consume non-Halal items before praying to Datuk spirits, or offer them such items. It pays to do one's research where it comes to these matters.

Your first port of call when you get to the temple is the altar to the Heavenly Hosts/the Jade Emperor; this is usually represented by a large urn standing just outside the main entrance. An offering of three incense sticks, representing Heaven, Earth and Humanity, is the standard for most Heavenly gods, and applies here. As per folklore, incense sticks serve 'to waft your prayers/wishes to the gods', akin to smoke signals.

Standing with the urn in front of you and with your back to the main entrance, clasp the incense sticks in both hands, bow your head  or bow at the waist, and make your prayer while remaining bowed. Once you are done, place the incense sticks in the urn using your left hand; this hand is closer to the heart, the seat of Yang energy, and using it thus also creates a gesture of sincerity.

Most large temples have a double door as the main entrance, with small side entrances flanking it. Do not enter via the main entrance, but via the small entrance to the right of the double door instead (the right side is always favoured first, as this is the side that represents Yang, while the left represents Yin). The main entrance is reserved for the deities' use, and is also the prime conduit for the temple's spiritual energies.

Next, head for the main altar in the interior of the temple; this will display the principal deity to whom the temple is dedicated. This deity need not necessarily be the most senior deity enshrined within, but are nevertheless the next in line. A three stick offering will again be the order of the day - this is in deference to the fact that they are the 'guest of honour'. Same prayer procedure as before, with you facing the main altar this time.

You then similarly pay your respects to the other deities in the interior, travelling in an anticlockwise direction. In other words, once you have paid your respects at the central altar, you then make offerings to the deities enshrined to the right of the altar, and then the deities enshrined to the left of the altar (again, Yang over Yin). After this, you exit the temple through the small entrance to the left of the double door (once more, Yang over Yin), and pay your respects to any deities enshrined outside.

The other deities will often consist of a mixture of Heavenly gods, Earth gods and Hell deities. As above, most Heavenly gods will warrant a three-stick offering - unless there are specific indications that individual offerings are a must, you can collectively offer three sticks to a group of Heavenly gods (this will be apparent when only a single incense urn is placed before two or more statues). There are one or two exceptions, such as the Five Camp Commanders, a group of Heavenly warriors who are collectively offered five sticks instead of three (I will speak more about them later).

The Earth gods are normally collectively offered five incense sticks, as they are fivefold, in charge of the soil of all five cardinal directions. And the Hell deities are normally collectively offered seven incense sticks. Seven is a number associated with the Yin aspect and death - each phase of the moon, a Yin heavenly body, is a seven-day cycle, seven seven-day periods, totalling forty-nine days, are how long it supposedly takes for a newly-deceased soul to sever itself from the mortal realm (see my previous posts on the 'bail period' that a soul receives prior to heading for the Netherworld), and the Hungry Ghost Festival takes place during the Seventh Lunar Month.

The general order in which one pays their respects is Heavenly gods first, Earth Gods next, and Hell deities last (you've got it - Yang over Yin). Once you are done, drop an offering into the temple's donation box if you feel like it. You are not obliged to make an offering, but if you do, the offering is traditionally commensurate with the seriousness of the problem for which you are seeking assistance.

As previously mentioned, it is very bad manners to bald-facedly make demands of the gods, especially if you haven't been a particularly good person. But a sincere, virtuous individual in genuine need of help - that's another story. You need not provide your particulars, nor need you necessarily go into all the nitty-gritty details; merely saying something along the lines of the following will do: "Sir/madam, I am in a time of need. I know I may not necessarily deserve help, but if you somehow deem me worthy of assistance and decide to smile upon me, I would be very much obliged. Thank you in advance." Neither does your prayer have to be said out loud.

Attending a temple with no desire to seek assistance is more than acceptable - in fact, I pretty much always attend temples with no requests in mind whatsoever. You adhere to the same procedure as above, but your prayer will obviously be different. Something along these lines is fine: "Sir/madam, I am here to pay my respects - I hope that you enjoy my offerings, and that you have a good day."

Hope this helps.  biggrin.gif
SUSredisthcan
post Jun 5 2015, 10:30 AM

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Bump for some great artwork of two familiar faces.

user posted image


SUSredisthcan
post Jun 10 2015, 10:29 PM

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QUOTE(sweetguy @ Jun 7 2015, 01:38 PM)
Hi Nacthsider,
I was told that the chief diety in charged (or BIG BOSS) of Big bro & Small bro above is "Tu Si Wan". Do you have any infor on this? Perhap, some pictures of how the BIG BOSS look like.
Thanks.
The name 'Tu Si Wan' does not correspond to any Hell deity I recognise.

As a matter of fact, it doesn't even sound like any dialect I understand.
SUSredisthcan
post Jun 13 2015, 10:14 PM

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QUOTE(estcin @ Jun 10 2015, 10:51 PM)
Hi Nacht, not sure if this has been mentioned here before in this thread. can share with us about ppl keeping "little ghosts"?
*
'Kept ghosts' can be divided into three categories.

The first category are those who are fugitives from the spiritual law, who are trying to escape their final judgement - they find refuge with those who are willing to keep and provide for them, in exchange for favours.

The second category are those who are detained against their will by black magic practitioners and forced to serve their captors, cruelly prevented from crossing over into the next world.

The third category are authorised by a deity or deities to be kept by certain individuals (e.g. priests, monks, spiritual masters) and perform good deeds in their service as a form of penance or spiritual cultivation.

People who keep ghosts belonging to category #1 are guilty of harbouring criminals on the run.

People who keep ghosts belonging to category #2 are guilty of unlawful detention/slavery.

Severe penalties apply to such offenders, so avoid such activities like the plague.
SUSredisthcan
post Jun 14 2015, 04:51 AM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Jun 14 2015, 01:27 AM)
How are categories #1 and #2 possible? That means the spiritual police are incompetent?
They are like any police force.

Possessed of finite manpower and finite resources, which have to be judiciously applied, certainly not everywhere at once.

Competent, but not omnipotent.
SUSredisthcan
post Jun 20 2015, 04:27 PM

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QUOTE(sales.convenience @ Jun 20 2015, 12:49 AM)
Bro Natch and I were chatting and he came out with a couplet.
In dedication to the 9 netherworld warriors
九陰忠貞遵敕令... 將軍剛毅守萬民
user posted image

And I came out with one too ,
陰曹善惡必經路 分明無私萬民服
user posted image
Just Sharing biggrin.gif
*
Thank you, bro Sales. It's always a pleasure to chat with a fellow sintua enthusiast. Your couplet perfectly describes the inevitable nature of the cleansing, discerning inferno of the Netherworld, which all must undergo. biggrin.gif

The Nine Yin Warriors I have already spoken about earlier in the thread; they are such a fascinating squad of Hell constables.

The second picture Sales has posted is a wall-painting of the Bridge of Sorrows/奈何桥; this is a great bridge situated in the realm that the Fourth Court of Hell encompasses, spanning a river of blood in which dwell huge serpents that feed on sinners. It is one of the two main entry/exit points of the Netherworld, the other being the main gate in the realm of the First Court of Hell - the Gui Men Guan/鬼门关, which is where pretty much everyone passes through on their way to trial.

user posted image

user posted image

Every now and then, Guan Yin comes sailing up the river of blood in a large vessel known as the Ship of Salvation. She will embark those souls who have sufficiently cultivated themselves and/or repented to warrant passage to Paradise rather than be reincarnated, and convey them there.

user posted image

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