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 The Official Lowyat.NET Sintua Thread, A thread on Chinese folk religion.

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SUSredisthcan
post Mar 14 2015, 07:52 AM

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QUOTE(JunJun04035 @ Mar 14 2015, 07:47 AM)
九阴军 and 善财 all together?

I though they were from two different side
If you are talking about the pins that the Shan Cai medium has skewered through his back and arms, those are not 九阴军 pins, lol.

Those are pins representing Heavenly generals.
SUSredisthcan
post Mar 14 2015, 04:58 PM

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QUOTE(JunJun04035 @ Mar 14 2015, 08:24 AM)
Enlightens me, master notworthy.gif
The full cohort of principal Heavenly generals is thirty-six in number, a figure that includes Lord Guan and some of the Five Camp Commanders - all of them come under the overall leadership of Lord Xuan Wu (I have spoken about all these named personages earlier in the thread).

These thirty-six generals have different abilities, and a medium wishing to harness and utilise their powers will pierce himself with pins that are crafted in their likenesses.

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SUSredisthcan
post Mar 19 2015, 03:40 AM

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QUOTE(crabby86 @ Mar 18 2015, 11:20 PM)
No updates?
How about you ask questions, pass comments and make the thread an interactive one, instead of leaving little old me to do all the work? tongue.gif
SUSredisthcan
post Mar 19 2015, 04:04 AM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Mar 19 2015, 01:06 AM)
Question...why is it that Hokkien seems the most common, if not the only dialect used by the medium under trance?
Pretty simple, actually.

Chinese folk religion, particularly the mediumship aspect of it, is primarily a Hokkien and Teochew thing.

Hokkiens and Teochews are descendants of the Yao tribe, a prehistoric tribe that were renowned for shamanistic practices, from which present-day sintua mediumship evolved.

Furthermore, a fair number of sintua gods were Hokkiens when still mortal, including Lord Zhang and the Black and White Brothers.

The gods also adapt to speak the language of their largest subset of devotees (the Hokkien they use is usually an ancient, rarified form of the language that few are able to comprehend without an interpreter), although there are some who speak in Mandarin, some who speak in Malay (Datuks) and others who speak in nothing that even resembles human language (also requiring an interpreter).

For an example of the latter, listen to what this White Brother from the Ninth Court of Hell has to say.



This post has been edited by nachtsider: Mar 19 2015, 04:06 AM
SUSredisthcan
post Mar 19 2015, 11:56 AM

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QUOTE(EnergyAnalyst @ Mar 19 2015, 06:26 AM)
It's a pretty accurate overview, actually.

I'm especially pleased with how they recognise and acknowledge Chinese folk religion's ancient shamanistic origins.
SUSredisthcan
post Mar 19 2015, 12:02 PM

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QUOTE(EnergyAnalyst @ Mar 19 2015, 06:30 AM)
http://www.aaronshep.com/extras/MonkeyKing_note2.html

I have never thought of monkey king this way...

If you are not happy with Establishment, let's worship this 'hero of rebels'
The Monkey King is Chinese folk religion's most famous rebel, lol.

Other anti-establishment figures include Na Zha and Ji Gong, whom I've already spoken about at length.
SUSredisthcan
post Mar 20 2015, 12:22 PM

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QUOTE(draco4 @ Mar 20 2015, 09:46 AM)
I think I'll go out on a limb and ask a potentially stupid question.
Why is it that having the same zodiac with Tai Sui is considered offending him?
Can anyone tell me the logic behind it? rclxub.gif
'Offending' the Tai Sui is actually just a figure of speech. In truth, the Tai Sui probably doesn't even know you exist, being an impersonal cosmic force.

As the Tai Sui star travels across the sky, it passes through the stellar sectors corresponding to various constellations and therefore zodiac signs. The resulting interplay of cosmic energies (conflict between the energy of the Tai Sui star and that of the various constellations) exerts an effect on people whose birth dates correspond to these zodiac signs. This effect can be quite devastating, resulting in physical illness, misfortune and the like. Rituals to 'appease' the Tai Sui (in actual fact, to stave off the negative interplay of cosmic energy) are thus performed in order to avoid adverse effects.

The seemingly random ill-effects that Tai Sui can cause have led to its personification as a wrathful deity by the name of Marshal Yin Jiao/殷郊, whose story is a tragic one.

The son of the cruel King Zhou of the Shang Dynasty, Yin Jiao was born a formless lump of flesh. His father's equally wicked concubine, Da Ji the fox spirit, convinced King Wu to execute Yin Jiao's mother, the queen, on account of her 'giving birth to a monster'. Abandoned in the forest, the lump of flesh was discovered by He Xian Gu of the Eight Immortals (whom I have spoken about earlier in this thread). She recognised it for an immortal embryo; cutting it open, she retrieved a healthy baby boy from within and raised him like her own child.

Yin Jiao developed tremendous magical power as he grew up. When he came of age, He Xian Gu revealed to him the truth behind his birth; he flew into a terrible rage and swore revenge for his mother. Yin Jiao joined forces with a rebel alliance who sought to overthrow his father, and helped them to seize power after a series of massive battles. Da Ji died at Yin Jiao's hand, while King Zhou committed suicide rather than surrender.

Having such a messed up childhood, it's small wonder that he's so angry all the time and randomly lashes out - well, that's how the story attempts to explain the abovementioned cosmic principles, anyway. sweat.gif

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This post has been edited by nachtsider: Mar 22 2015, 03:19 AM
SUSredisthcan
post Mar 20 2015, 04:01 PM

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QUOTE(draco4 @ Mar 20 2015, 03:40 PM)
Of course, a very clear and detailed explanation by our in house expert nachtsider  biggrin.gif
Another question to ask, I did a search on King Zhou and according to the English wiki he is deified as the "God of Sodomy" I kid you not (the title rather makes him sound like some greek God to me tongue.gif), whilst the chinese version elevates him to a more pleasant sounding 天喜星.
Why would someone as evil as he was even gets to be deified?
Now this may be out of topic, but perhaps do you have some interest in Tibetan Buddhism too?
Given the fact that both Sintua and Tibetan Buddhism have a penchant for kickass, rock star alike wrathful deities  tongue.gif
King Zhou was, indeed, infamous for his degenerate habits and perverse ways, but I would not put stock in any claims that he has been deified. The alignment of Chinese folk religion is very much 'lawful good', with no place for evil-doers amongst its pantheon. Even the few former rebels like the Monkey King and the King of Ghosts are fully reformed/rehabilitated and now serve the cause of righteousness.

Tibetan Buddhism intrigues me, but I know virtually nothing about the subject matter, lol. This I am slowly trying to rectify by mingling closer with a few acquaintances who are devout practitioners. biggrin.gif
SUSredisthcan
post Mar 21 2015, 08:20 AM

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QUOTE(JunJun04035 @ Mar 21 2015, 08:16 AM)
Since you mention King Zhou, let me say something outside of this thread's general topic.

King Zhou of Shang 商纣王, the last King of Shang dynasty商朝 (Around BCE 17th century till BCE 11th century), is not named as Zhou 纣, after all.

His real name is Zi Shou子受 (some claim is Zi Shou De 子受德).

After his defeat in the Battle of Mu Ye 牧野之战 to the famous King Wu of Zhou 周武王, he burn himself to death at Deer Terrace Pavilion 鹿台.

King Wu of Zhou then gave him the posthumous name谥号 of Zhou 纣, citing him as the one “that destroy Righteousness and harm virtuos” 残义损善曰纣.

While at the same time, his people gave him the posthumous name of Xin 辛 (One of the Heavenly Stem of the Sexagenary Cycle System), which till today, most scholar have no idea what it signifies.

Also, if you read ancient Chinese history close enough, you will find that his so called "evilness" highly resemble those in the King Jie夏桀王 of the previous Xia Empire 夏朝

Maybe this is some work of defamation, huh?  laugh.gif
*
Shhh.

When the legend becomes fact, print the legend. laugh.gif
SUSredisthcan
post Mar 25 2015, 11:40 PM

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QUOTE(dp82 @ Mar 25 2015, 10:01 AM)
I have never seen the "statue" of Nine Emperor b4 as the old folks say we are not allowed to see him & he is not visible. Is there such things?
The Nine Emperors are beings of great cosmic power, whose bombastic energy, akin to nuclear fire, would not be tolerable for prolonged periods.

Under normal circumstances, their images are kept within sealed chambers, behind heavy curtains or closed doors (see first picture below).

During their festival days, however, their images are revealed with great pomp and ceremony (the second picture is a statue of the second of the Nine Emperors).

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SUSredisthcan
post Mar 26 2015, 06:47 PM

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QUOTE(EnergyAnalyst @ Mar 26 2015, 11:43 AM)
let me just say thanks to all contributors to this thread, it has been a wonderful discovery and enlightening journey. Now I know my gods/goddess better
No problem. I intend to keep this thread fun and educational. biggrin.gif

Here are two excellent videos featuring mediums channelling Na Zha, Shan Cai, the Monkey King and three pairs of Black and White Brothers.




SUSredisthcan
post Apr 3 2015, 06:10 AM

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Who are the Nine Yin Warriors?

The Nine Yin Warriors/九阴军 or the Nine Nether Realm Vanguards are a squad of Hell beings who serve as torturers, interrogators and guards in Hell. They are also known as the Nine Abandoned Ones or the Nine Forsaken Ones/九阴撂将, as it is said that they were originally deformed young infants or children who did not survive childbirth or were left to die by their parents. From a medical standpoint, their strange appearances actually DO match certain real-life neonatal deformities, which lends truth to this story.

They consist of the Yin-Yang Ghost/阴阳鬼, who is their leader and can manipulate fortune and misfortune, allowing him to jinx, bless or alternate between the two in the blink of an eye...

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... the Long-Tongued Ghost/长舌鬼, who, like the Pokemon Gastly, paralyses with a mere lick of his tongue...

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... the One-Eyed Ghost/单眼鬼, whose excellent vision detects supernatural beings and mortals alike at a myriad of ranges and can pierce concealment...

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... the One-Eared Ghost/独耳鬼, whose superb hearing detects supernatural beings and mortals alike at a myriad of ranges and can pierce concealment...

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... the Eye-Devouring Ghost/吞眼鬼, who, similar to Tenebraug from the Ghostbusters, robs his victims of their eyesight...

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... the Fire-Eating Ghost/食火鬼, who breathes deadly magical fire...

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... the Melodious Ghost/文音鬼, who can control minds with songs from his flute...

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... the Long-Eyebrowed Ghost/长眉鬼, whose eyebrows are essentially razor sharp cables that he can use as whips by swinging his head around...

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... and the Soul-Pursuing Child/追魂童, whose magic sack acts like the Ghost Trap from Ghostbusters, sucking in spirit beings he wishes to capture like a vacuum cleaner sucks in dirt.

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SUSredisthcan
post Apr 6 2015, 08:50 PM

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Public service announcement: Guan Yin's birthday falls tomorrow. bday.gif

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SUSredisthcan
post Apr 7 2015, 07:03 AM

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QUOTE(jonoave @ Apr 6 2015, 09:54 PM)
Lol thanks for the PSA. I will try to be vegetarian for tomorrow. smile.gif
QUOTE(phoenix24 @ Apr 6 2015, 10:12 PM)
ah yes Guan Yin's Birthday tomorrow, will definitely go vegetarian tomorrow
Can enlighten me what's the difference between what the usual Chinese tradition does vs. the Real Buddhist tradition for this occasion?
Also, why does she have 3 birthdays? (Or at least I think I remember seeing somewhere about that)
Being vegetarian isn't a must, in all honesty; as long as your heart is pure, whatever you eat or don't eat is of little consequence, if at all. Dropping by your nearest Guan Yin temple and earnestly wishing her a happy birthday (complete with vegetarian offerings, if you can) will suffice. smile.gif

Pure Buddhist tradition focuses on Avalokitesvara, the genderless Bodhisattva whom Guan Yin is a female manifestation of; their reverence of Avalokitesvara involves plenty of sutra-chanting, which isn't really an aspect of Chinese folk worship.

Chinese folk religion focuses on the Princess Miao Shan legend (which I've already mentioned earlier) as Guan Yin's origin story, and involves traditional Chinese methods of worship such as the burning of incense; Guan Yin may make her presence felt today via a medium, as well, which is an religious aspect that Buddhism does not subscribe to.

Only one of the three 'birthdays' is her true birthday (the 19th of the 2nd lunar month, which falls today). The others are feast days that mark the day she took her vows as a nun (the 19th of the 9th lunar month) and the day she attained enlightenment (the 19th of the 6th lunar month).

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SUSredisthcan
post Apr 7 2015, 04:52 PM

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QUOTE(sales.convenience @ Apr 7 2015, 04:36 PM)
A brief introduction of a deity , often known as 马府千岁. He is a deity that dates back to prehistorical times. Formerly an entity , he manifested into a heavenly horse and finally into human form with 9 heads and 18 arms. He is told to be holding weapons on each of his arms.

He is rarely seen in south-east-asia mostly, he is revered in Taiwan where wang ye worship is rampant.
*
Duke Ma is an interesting guy.

There are tales of how he was a Han Dynasty warlord who transformed himself into a fearsome nine-headed and eighteen-armed titan after a prolonged period of spiritual cultivation in the Kun Lun Mountains, in order to repel invading barbarian hordes.

But the origin story provided by the Taiwanese temples where he is primarily worshipped imply a more ancient origin - that he was there when the San Qing parted the Heavens and created the Earth, that he is the personification of a Heavenly stallion (hence his surname) and that he regards the Jade Emperor himself as not merely his lord and master, but a brother, too. In his words, "在還沒有朝代就有我" - "Before there were dynasties, there was me."

A very enigmatic and imposing Heavenly warrior.

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SUSredisthcan
post Apr 11 2015, 03:17 AM

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Who are the Four Saints?

The Four Saints/四圣者 are four spirit warriors who are subordinate to Prince Na Zha (whom I have discussed earlier). They originally served his mother Lady Yin, who was a practitioner of the magic arts herself, as familiar spirits before she dispatched them to protect her son during his early years. Although both she and them soon realised that he did not really require protection, they continue to accompany him as retainers.

The Saints are differently coloured, corresponding to four of the Five Elements and Five Cardinal Directions. They consist of Liu/刘圣者 (White, Metal, West), Zhang/张圣者 (Green, Wood, East), Xiao/萧圣者 (Red, Fire, South) and Lian/连圣者 (Black, Water, North). Although they look similar to Lord Zhang, in that they carry serpents and are sometimes shown with fire wheels under their feet, they are in fact unrelated to him.

Why just four of the Five Elements and Five Cardinal Directions, you might ask? Well, that is because Na Zha, when accompanying them, represents the Fifth (Yellow, Earth, Centre). Na Zha and the Four Saints, working as a team, can function as an alternative lineup to the usual Five Camp Commander formation for provision of a temple's security and spiritual manpower (I have spoken about the Five Camp Commanders prior).

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SUSredisthcan
post Apr 24 2015, 05:20 PM

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QUOTE(sweetguy @ Apr 22 2015, 08:49 AM)
Bro' natchsider,
please check your PM. Need your help seriously. Sorry that I can't share here.
Hi sweetguy, you have mail. smile.gif
SUSredisthcan
post Apr 26 2015, 05:15 PM

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QUOTE(sweetguy @ Apr 26 2015, 03:23 PM)
thks nachtsider. by the way are you familiar with thai occult practices? any similarity and can it go along side by side with sintua worship? i mean praying together or setting up the idols at the same altar?
I know enough about Thai occult practices to tell you that they are quite different from sintua worship, not merely in terms of their rituals, but also in terms of their alignments.

Chinese folk religion is 'lawful good ', strongly geared towards the upholding of truth and justice, while Thai magic is more 'chaotic neutral' - it can be used for both upright purposes and more underhand or 'grey' dealings.

They generally do not mix well and should be kept quite separate, unless in very rare exceptions.
SUSredisthcan
post Apr 28 2015, 01:00 PM

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QUOTE(sweetguy @ Apr 27 2015, 08:43 AM)
Why I ask because noticed that most of the mediums have these thai tatoo (sakyant) all over their body. Some of them even wear all types of thai amulets/ talismans around their neck.
The real pros know better than to blend beer and wine.
SUSredisthcan
post Apr 29 2015, 06:29 PM

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QUOTE(sweetguy @ Apr 28 2015, 02:29 PM)
Can you tell some infor on this diety name Zhang TianZhi. I know that one sifu in KL specially enshrined his shop as His temple. They've yearly event that attract thousands of followers. Some said that the practicioners usually worshp Him at the dark side eg. mao shan.
Heavenly Master Zhang/张天师 is frequently referred to as the first Taoist Pope, one of the earliest Taoist masters and progenitor of the Five Pecks of Rice/五斗米道 sect, which preaches that immortality may be achieved by maintaining the correct balance of qi within one's body.

He is credited with inventing the practice of utilising drawn talismans for ritual purposes, or at least introducing the utilisation of this technique on a widespread basis.

Zhang is generally considered to be an upright man; some accounts present him as being slightly cunning/Machiavellian, although not to the extent of the Mao Shan practitioners.

The Mao Shan sect have their own progenitors/masters and their own protocols, which are different from that of Zhang's sect, and they do not revere him.

Note that Heavenly Master Zhang and Lord Zhang the Serpent-Queller, whom I have spoken about earlier, are not the same individual, although they share the same surname and may look slightly similar to the untrained eye.

Although both deities wield swords, Heavenly Master Zhang's familiar animal is a tiger, while Lord Zhang's is a cobra.

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