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 LYN Proton Saga/Iswara Driver's Thread! V28, Keep on Keeping on!

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Exa_Bytez
post Feb 20 2015, 09:21 PM

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Hi guys. Recently i just did a top overhaul to my proton saga which cost around rm800. May i know is this price reasonable?
Nice thread btw. Keep it up guys thumbup.gif

Update: just tested the car and it seems to have serious dashboard and steering rattling. Headlight have ocassional problem to turn it on. Car also ocassionally cannot be started after switching it off. Rpm meter went crazy. What would be the issue? Prior to top overhaul, only the steering rattle and minor dashboard rattle.
Thanks in advance.
Ps:whats the idle rpm for saga (1992) engine?

This post has been edited by Exa_Bytez: Feb 20 2015, 11:03 PM
Exa_Bytez
post Feb 21 2015, 02:20 PM

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QUOTE(Albert B @ Feb 21 2015, 12:38 PM)
What items were carried out for the RM800, were there extra besides the usual valve grind/stem seals, gaskets...?

Headlight circuit should not be affected by the top overhaul, maybe the rattling affected the stalk switch at the steering column.

RPM meter wild behaviour could be due to the rattling, or the connection at the distributor which will be affected by the top overhaul.

When you say your car cannot be started, you mean starter not working, or have to crank many times to get it started?

Yours is the 8- or 12-valve engine? According to Haynes manual it is 800 ± 50 rpm for 8valve. Elsewhere info for 12-valve engine is 750 ± 100 rpm (from pdf manual - url provided at 1st page of this thread). If you wish to DIY adjust the rpm, below is the photo showing the screw to adjust (tighten to increase, loosen to decrease)

Was your mechanic aware of the rattling after he did the overhaul?
*
Other stuff would be piston ring, engine mounting, and brake master pump. After i tighten the battery connector, the electrical issue problem seem to have gone. Not sure whether this is just coincidence or the real solution.
The reason the car was sent to the workshop was due to the steering rattling and it still there after repair. sad.gif
Will try to retune the rpm. That screw for idle with ac on or off? Thanks

Exa_Bytez
post Feb 21 2015, 06:25 PM

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QUOTE(Albert B @ Feb 21 2015, 04:11 PM)
Yes it is possible the loose connection may be one of the causes of electrical mis-behaviour.

DId you not go back to the mechanic and pester him to make good?

Air-con is OFF position. see attached for another view.
*
Nice. Thanks
I couldnt go to the workshop since its closes today
Exa_Bytez
post Feb 21 2015, 06:38 PM

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Ops. Double posted

This post has been edited by Exa_Bytez: Feb 21 2015, 06:39 PM
Exa_Bytez
post Feb 22 2015, 11:13 AM

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QUOTE(Albert B @ Feb 21 2015, 04:11 PM)
Yes it is possible the loose connection may be one of the causes of electrical mis-behaviour.

DId you not go back to the mechanic and pester him to make good?

Air-con is OFF position. see attached for another view.
*
Bro, it seem that my engine is kinda different from the pic. Im not sure what model of this engine was and i couldnt find the screw.


Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image Attached Image
Exa_Bytez
post Feb 22 2015, 08:13 PM

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QUOTE(Albert B @ Feb 22 2015, 03:02 PM)
If I understand the photos correctly, your car appears to be originally 8-valve engine using
external ignition coil, and later it was changed to 12-valve engine using built-in coil in the
distributor. The external coil & ballast resistor can still be seen, but not connected as it is not in use. And it appears the carburettor is the old one. So my earlier posting pictures are not correct one.
From what info I got, the screw is as shown in the attached.
*
thank you for the provided illustration smile.gif
yeah, the car's original engine had been changed way back.
the screw that you show in the picture is it for ac off or ac on idle one?
BTW, where do you obtained the schematics?
Exa_Bytez
post Feb 22 2015, 09:17 PM

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QUOTE(Albert B @ Feb 22 2015, 08:49 PM)
I believe should be air-con OFF, but I am not sure. Maybe you can experiment and see.
So far when I search the internet for info on Aisan carburettors, the most informative sites are in Russian.
e.g. : (where I got the diagram from)
http://japancar.pp.ru/japonskie-karburatory-48
https://www.google.com.my/search?q=aisan+28..._sm=93&ie=UTF-8

The page in English is scanned from Haynes manual.

==edit==
attached is the manual for your carburettor, in Russian. I believe there is an English version somewhere, but I can't find it....
*
Nice. Now i know the carb model. Ill try find the manual later. Is this carb standard one for this car?
Thanks

Exa_Bytez
post Feb 22 2015, 09:18 PM

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QUOTE(Albert B @ Feb 22 2015, 08:49 PM)
I believe should be air-con OFF, but I am not sure. Maybe you can experiment and see.
So far when I search the internet for info on Aisan carburettors, the most informative sites are in Russian.
e.g. : (where I got the diagram from)
http://japancar.pp.ru/japonskie-karburatory-48
https://www.google.com.my/search?q=aisan+28..._sm=93&ie=UTF-8

The page in English is scanned from Haynes manual.

==edit==
attached is the manual for your carburettor, in Russian. I believe there is an English version somewhere, but I can't find it....
*
Nice. Now i know the carb model. Ill try find the manual later. Is this carb standard one for this car?
Thanks

Exa_Bytez
post Apr 19 2017, 10:22 AM

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QUOTE(ca2n @ Nov 29 2014, 03:27 PM)
Prepared this a while back. The idea was to replace ALL bulbs to LEDs. Need to double-check the accuracy of the info though.

user posted image
*
Greetings everyone.

I would like to if anyone have the list for bulb to led replacement. It seems the image above is no longer exist.
Exa_Bytez
post May 6 2017, 08:59 AM

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Greetings everyone. I have some issue with my car as listed below.

1. The car steering rattles during idle. Idle is set at around 800 with aircond on and 1000 off. Changed engine mounting 2 years ago.

2. The radiator fan spins all the time. Probably previous mechanic removed the thermostat and keep the fan on all the time. (probably not related) Or is there any other reason for this? If the thermostat is removed, how much do I need to spend on making the fan run normally again. This always on behaviour caused the engine to take a while to warm up during cold start.

3.The brake gives different feeling when being pressed. Sometime soft, sometime abit harder to press.

4. The car is very old. Nearly 30 years already with mileage clocking at 747000km (as attached smile.gif ). Other the the usual component replacement eg, timing belt, plugs, etc, is there any particular items/components that I need to replace/service?

Thanks in advance.

Attached Image

This post has been edited by Exa_Bytez: May 6 2017, 09:15 AM
Exa_Bytez
post May 6 2017, 01:04 PM

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QUOTE(Albert B @ May 6 2017, 12:46 PM)
1. Not sure about this.

2. If the fan runs even when car is started with cold engine,
then it has nothing to do with the thermostat (the one at the
manifold). The probable causes are below, need to check to
narrow down the cause:
- a)  failed temperature switch at the bottom of the radiator
- b)  jammed relay in the fuse box
- c)  the mechanic shorted the temperature switch or fixed a
constant 12V supply to the fan to make it run all the time.

3. Better have the master pump checked at the workshop.

4. At that kind of mileage, probably the car would have been
through many cycles of equipment replacements and overhauls.
Starter motor, fuel pump, water pump, clutch,  all have been changed?
*
Thank you for the detailed explanation. Will check it later. As for the car maintenance history, it is not well known since i took this car from a relative. What I know is that the engine has been replaced , and top overhauled before.

Exa_Bytez
post May 9 2017, 10:02 AM

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I also have issue with ficd. For my car, I noticed that it have denso ficd (184600) installed by previous owner. The problem is, adjusting the knob on it yield very small rpm increase per rotation. I need to do 20 turns ccw to get noticeable increase (not sure if it's placebo) in rpm. Is it normal? I have tested the connection between compressor and ground as well as the ficd itself by connecting it directly with 12v source and it seems to be in a working order.

Attached Image

2. Do I need to do some carb cleaning? If yes, is spraying it with carb cleaner suffice? Also attached below is the air filter. Would like to know if it needs changing.
Attached Image
Attached Image

This post has been edited by Exa_Bytez: May 9 2017, 12:40 PM
Exa_Bytez
post May 9 2017, 12:35 PM

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QUOTE(Albert B @ May 9 2017, 11:31 AM)
Should not be 20 turns to get a response. I am not sure about your FICD,
but usually it uses engine vacuum actuator to press the throttle. You can
observe its workings with someone switching the air-cond ON & OFF
and see if it reaches the throttle lever. On Iswaras, the adjustment screw
is quite small, the length won't be much more than 20 threads. (Probably
your FICD works in different way).

The air filter is quite dirty, change it.
*
I dont think my car is equipped with the vacuum actuator you showed. Saga 1989 with engine replaced to 12 valve. My carburetor is the old one (aisan 28-32) with only af and idle screw adjustment

Attached Image

This post has been edited by Exa_Bytez: May 9 2017, 12:41 PM
Exa_Bytez
post May 10 2017, 09:17 AM

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QUOTE(Albert B @ May 9 2017, 03:00 PM)
I am not familiar with this FICD, I think it is similar to those
in the following links:

http://www.ben9166.com/2011/09/diy-install...for-better.html

http://www.diytacra.com/2010/11/ficd-fast-...rol-device.html

http://wirahybrid.blogspot.my/2013/07/an-i...rkshop-diy.html

It seems to work by altering the air intake at the manifold to control rpm.
This method is new to me.
*
It turns out the knob is loose. Managed to turn it using plier but no improvement. I think the hose connections are wrong after comparing it with others' diagram. Anyway, do you know from where the hose to the egr valve should be connected? It seems that mine is connected to a metal rod underneath.
Attached Image

Any idea why the mechanics disconnect this thing?
Attached Image

Thank you in advance.

This post has been edited by Exa_Bytez: May 10 2017, 09:45 AM
Exa_Bytez
post May 11 2017, 01:20 PM

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QUOTE(Albert B @ May 10 2017, 12:26 PM)
Your intake manifold has some kind of device in place of a
thermostatic vacuum switching valve (TVSV), and there is
an extra vacuum hose apparently connected to this thing but
has been disconnected. If connected, I can't make out what
function it has.

The EGR valve is connected to the metal pipe which then
comes out at the other side to the TVSV.
*
You're right. For my engine, at that location, there is 2 thermostatic valve I think where one(with the green cap) is connected to the EGR. Instead of having tvsv, i think mine is separated to thermostatic valves. There are two metal tubes not connected. I reckon this should be connected to tvsv. I have some issue with cold starting the car (rough idle). Is the absent of tvsv the possible cause?

Attached Image

This post has been edited by Exa_Bytez: May 11 2017, 01:21 PM
Exa_Bytez
post May 13 2017, 05:06 PM

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QUOTE(Albert B @ May 12 2017, 10:27 AM)
It could be they have separated the TVSV like you said; I am
not familiar with this version of the Saga engine fittings. I looked
around the net and found some similar photos (see below) from
these sites:

http://z4.invisionfree.com/Saga_Iswara_Club/ar/t16144.htm
http://www.zerotohundred.com/newforums/sho...ad.php?t=426981

Vacuum line diagrams are not publicly available for the Proton,
so far I found only this site but the diagrams do not seem to be
applicable to the Saga. (Member Tham have traced the lines
in postings here some pages back)

http://alflash.com.ua/Vacuum.htm

That unplugged hose could be letting in air which may affect the
air/fuel ratio. What happens if you plug it back? Rough idle could
have many causes; it is possible to be from those open vacuum lines.
Even my Iswara has it but only for a minute or so from cold engine
start, despite a fully functional autochoke.

Maybe the sifus here can help shed some light on this.
*
Thanks for the link. The unplugged hose is plugged by a screw. I'll try connecting the hose and see the effect. For the rough idle, I'll try carb and egr cleaning first and report here.
Exa_Bytez
post May 20 2017, 08:18 PM

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I have a water puddle in my car on thr front passenger side as well as a tiny bit on the driver side coming from underneath the dashboard when aircond is on. Where can I locate the drain pipe for the cooling coil? I think it is blocked. Or is there any other reasons this happen?
Exa_Bytez
post May 23 2017, 08:58 AM

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QUOTE(Albert B @ May 21 2017, 10:37 AM)
The outlet tube is as shown below. It should be detachable so that you can clean the box outlet hole. I used to attach a garden hose to it and force water in for a few seconds, sort of reverse flow to clear  the block, taking care not to overdo it otherwise the water overflows into the cabin.
*
Thanks. It turned out the drain pipe is indeed blocked.
Exa_Bytez
post May 23 2017, 08:59 AM

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QUOTE(frontierzone @ May 21 2017, 03:25 PM)
Guys, bad mounting causing the steering to shake / vibrate during idle.
Any long-term problems if left it unrepaired? Other than annoyance.
*
I have the same problem as you and I changed my engine mounting two years ago. Anyway, what's your idle rpm?
Exa_Bytez
post May 24 2017, 08:44 AM

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QUOTE(frontierzone @ May 23 2017, 10:56 AM)
I set it low myself to save fuel.

NO A/C Idle = 600-700 (not too much vibration) still ok

A/C Idle =

600-700 - moderate rattling
700-900 - very significant ratting... the whole dashboardand steering go ta ta ta ta ta
loudly
950 or 1100 rpm - rattling reduced again.

How much you changed the mounting?
Is the mouting change a labour intensive work? Maybe I wait until timing belt change, then do it together if so.
*
I cant remember the price. I did it along with top overhaul. But as far as I can remember, after changing the mounting, the steering column still shaking. Hence I set the idle higher to minimize the rattling >1k ac off since my carb dont have ac on idle adjustment. For my case, the dashboard only rattle if I am not holding the steering.

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