May we enjoy Christ as our new year!

The experience of Jacob

Being Broken Pt 5

Do not expect that by one touch your whole living will be changed and that you will be totally transformed. No, with Jacob, the touch occurred in chapter thirty-two, but the maturity, the ripening, was not fully manifested until chapter forty-seven. From chapter twenty-six through chapter thirty-two, there were many failures, mistakes, and wrong doings. After being touched by God, in chapter thirty-three apparently he had not changed very much, but actually, in life, he had had a great change. Prior to chapter thirty-two, Jacob was natural, never having been touched by the Lord. But after chapter thirty-two, whatever he did, he did with a limp. From then on, the impression he gave to people was quite different. When he bowed down to Esau, he was still natural, but his limp testified to the Lord's touching. Have you ever realized that as Jacob walked toward Esau and bowed down to him, he was limping? Esau did not see a whole Jacob, but a crippled one. Here we see that while there was no change in his living, a change had occurred in his life. It was not the outward living that was touched by the Lord; it was the inward, natural strength that was touched by Him. The sinew of Jacob's thigh had been touched.

Few Christians realize the crucial significance of Jacob's experience in this portion of the Word. Most devote their attention to dealing with outward sin, wrong doings, and worldliness, never thinking that their natural life, natural strength, must be touched. But the Lord is not only concerned with changing our outward living; He desires even more to touch our natural life. Whether or not you exchange words with your wife, if your natural life has not been touched, you are still natural. In the eyes of God, there is not much difference between losing your temper with your wife or controlling it. If you lose your temper, you are you, and if you control your temper, you are still you. But once Jacob had been touched, though outwardly he was the same as before, inwardly his natural life had been dealt with. Humanly speaking, of course, I like to see the brothers and sisters change their attitudes towards their spouses. But deep within, if their inward being remains the same, I do not appreciate this outward change. When you behave badly, it is difficult for the Lord to work Himself into you. But when you are good, it is the same. In fact, it may be more difficult for the Lord to work Himself into you because you are so good. It is not a matter of outward change or improvement; it is a matter of inward touching. Your inward sinew, your inward natural strength, must be touched by the Lord. We all need this touch.

As we follow Jacob, we may be touched again and again, for with us the touch may not be once for all. After we wrestle for a while, we shall have the deep conviction that we have been touched. The Lord always touches us at a certain crucial spot. Whenever He touches a particular part, we are lame and can no longer be the same in our inward being. From then on, we limp and are no longer whole.

Wow ... You know Dutch ?

This calling upon God is the supreme business, the whole business in this mortal life, of the City of God.
–Augustine, on Gen 4:26

Lol ... Like the images

But that is just outward, face up or down doesn't matter

This post has been edited by pehkay: Jan 8 2015, 12:11 PM

Welcome!

Best time to preach the gospel

The experience of Jacob

Being Broken Pt 6

Among the thousands of people in the church life, there are many different kinds: the clever, the wise, the crafty, the proud, the arrogant. According to religion, the correct way is to change our outward behavior. But God's way, the way of life, is different. God did not say to Jacob, "Jacob, I have wrestled with you, touched you, changed your name, and given you My blessing. From now on, you must not exercise your craftiness or use your natural strength to face the situation with your brother, Esau. Don't be crafty any longer. Trust in Me and let Me take care of this matter." There is no such account in the Bible. There is simply the record of Jacob's being touched. The Lord touched his thigh, changed his name, and gave him His blessing—that is all. No sermon, no instruction, was given to him. Whatever Jacob did after that, such as divide his folks into three groups, was up to him. Often, after the Lord touches us, He does not tell us what to do. Instead, He leaves us to ourselves, allowing us to do whatever we like. If we examine our experience, we shall see that this is so.

Those, especially the elders, who care for others are fond of instructing people. Frequently they say, "Brother, you were mistaken. Now that the Lord has blessed you, you should not treat your wife the same way. Surely for the sake of the Lord's glory, you must change." The sisters who engage in shepherding may charge others, saying, "Sister, you should not exchange words with your husband any longer. You should not do this—you should not do that." This is our way, but it is not the Lord's way. After touching Jacob's thigh and blessing him, the Lord gave him no instruction. He did not even say a word. Rather, after that touch, Jacob still exercised himself. He seemed to say to his people, "You all stay back. Let me go forward to see my brother Esau." But as he walked toward him, he did so in a limping way. What a difference between our natural concept and God's way! What a difference between the religious practice and the Lord's touching!

I do not want to hear of instructions that are given to you; rather, I like to see that, one by one, so many of you are touched by the Lord. Often, sisters have come to me complaining about their husbands. However, as they accuse their husbands before me, I am happy because in their accusations I notice that they are limping. Perhaps only a few days earlier they came to me without any sign of having been touched. But now, although they still complain and accuse their husbands, a definite limp is perceivable. I am happy to see that they have been touched. One touch is better than all kinds of instructions. The Lord's touching of our natural life is much better than a hundred messages. This is our need today.

Verse 31 says, "And as he passed over Penuel the sun rose upon him, and he limped upon his thigh" (Heb.). After the touch, the sun rose upon Jacob. He was crippled, but he was in the light. Anyone in the Lord's recovery who has light must be a crippled one. No one under the light is still whole; everyone under the light of the heavenly shining is lame. In the dark night, Jacob was strong and every part of him was whole. But after he was touched, the sun rose upon him and he was full of light. He was under the shining of the heavenly light, yet he was a crippled man. Because we are truly in the Lord's hand and are following His way, many of us are having this kind of experience.

Why?

Lol yeah .... I was wondering at his

This post has been edited by pehkay: Jan 12 2015, 12:14 PM

Woonsc,

You are a church kid?

Haha ya ... e.g. until later you received the Lord by yourself

Haha I think they are happy that their children love the Lord ....

How about Keningau and Ranau?

Are you making a case that all go to heaven?

And he is disagreeing with yaokb on?

That was what confuses me

I really thought they are making the same statement

This post has been edited by pehkay: Jan 14 2015, 08:07 PM

Hyper grace is it?

When one evaluates something, try not to "throw the baby out with the bathwater".

The truth is always two-fold. Unfortunately, theology tends to "box" the divine revelation by systematically labelling thing in different camps. And when someone is in one "camp", he or she will rather exclude things that don't go along with the interpretation.

For example, "Hyper-grace teachers maintain that all sin, past, present, and future, has already been forgiven, so there is no need for a believer to ever confess it."

The Bible do reveals that "all sin, past, present, and future, has already been forgiven" yet the believers still need to confess it . There is no contradiction.

For example:

REDEMPTION

Fact:
The Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! (John 1:29).
He Himself is the propitiation...for those of the whole world (1 John 2:2).
Who gave Himself as a ransom for all (1 Tim. 2:6).

Yet:
Although the Bible says that Christ has died for the world, it also says that those who believe will be saved. The following Scriptures testify to this:

That every one who believes... (John 3:15).
He who believes into Him...; he who does not believe... (John 3:18).


DYING WITH THE LORD

Fact: When Christ died on the cross, not only did He die for the sinners, but the sinners died in Him as well. He not only died for sins, but He brought death to the sinners as well. It is a fact in God that the sinners have died with Jesus on the cross. The following Scriptures prove this:

One died for all, therefore all died (2 Cor. 5:14).
Knowing this, that our old man has been crucified with Him (Rom. 6:6).

Yet the Word of God goes on to charge us to “reckon [ourselves] to be dead to sin” (Rom. 6:11). Reckoning is an act of faith. We do not consider ourselves dead, because we cannot consider ourselves dead. We may try to consider ourselves dead day and night, but how can one actually consider himself dead? The more we consider in this way, the more we will realize that we are alive and that we are capable of and even prone to sinning. The only way is for us to “reckon” ourselves dead in Christ.

If we have this faith, we will have the experience of dying with the Lord. In the Bible, Paul is a good pattern of a person who had the experience of dying with the Lord. He said, “The cross...through whom the world has been crucified to me and I to the world” (Gal. 6:14). He also said, “To know...the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death” (Phil. 3:10). Again he said, “I am crucified with Christ” (Gal. 2:20). If a believer is to have the experience—the life experience—of dying with the Lord, he cannot do so by his own methods. He must take God’s way, the way of fact, faith, and experience.


SANCTIFICATION

Sanctification is not a work of our own. Sanctification is accomplished for us by God. The Bible says, “That He might sanctify the people through His own blood” (Heb. 13:12). “For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified” (10:14). Sanctification is an accomplished fact. Since Jesus has died, we are all sanctified.

Nevertheless, 1 Peter 1:16 charges us to be “holy.”

Why does it charge us in this way? The reason is that though believers are sanctified, this sanctification is merely a fact with God; it is not yet an experience in the believers’ lives. In order for one to be sanctified, he has to apply the sanctification accomplished through the death of Jesus, taking this as his sanctification. Only then will he live a sanctified life.

Fact is always eternal, timeless, etc but our experiences is in time and applicable in a process.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Jan 15 2015, 09:35 AM

so, we throw out the verse "God resists the proud...."?

Faith maketh us sons and of the nature of Christ. –Tyndale's note on Gal 3:26