How does 3 persons conquer the land meh?

That was when Israelites was already in the land. I think in 2 Chron. 32.

What you say was right that the Lord can single-handedly destroy whatever armies.

But my subtle question was to let you see ... when Israelites were on the earth after Genesis ... there is a shift from individual experiences to corporate experiences (the church).

Unless the church today (typified by the Israelites) stand as the church in reality today, God will do nothing. Spiritual warfare is a corporate matter.

So, you three will be slaughtered.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Nov 27 2014, 06:30 PM

[By your understanding] Then God could have forgive all our sins without shedding the blood of His Son!

Even the Almighty God does things according to righteousness because the foundation of His throne is righteousness. Or I can even put it stronger ... He is righteousness. The universe will collapse if He violated His own righteousness, His very Being.

He is now bound by His own righteousness to forgive us because of the blood of His Son even if He does not feel like it

By definition, the law is the law .... it is inherently righteous. The Lord purposely broke the Sabbath to turn people from the old dispensation [of keeping letters] to Him. In other words, He is telling them to not to keep the Sabbath ritually, but "keep Him", the real Sabbath. It is not a matter of breaking the law to sin.

Also, the Lord's Person is higher, stricter and deeper than the outward laws.

And His person never contradicts his own Words .... Like you said, HE IS THE LAW!#$@#$


Strictly speaking, it is correct to say the Lord allowed or (you are peaceful) to do things and do that. Experientially, the Lord like a father/mother allowed a BABE OR a CHILD to be dirty or fail or etc...

That is to a CHILD and only if you are a new believer because you know he is just starting. Are you a child then?

As we grow in the divine life, I don't think He will allow this within.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Nov 28 2014, 10:04 AM

I understand what you are trying to say. It doesn't go against what I am trying to say.

What I am trying to get across is the result of the law whether, "The law has sphere of authorithy. Some law apply in general, some apply only for certain circumstances, some law was enacted to disable current law, something like that. (quoted by you) is righteousness [in the Old Testament sense] (Phil. 3:6)

Now, again, your quote "ask HS, he is the law" in should write ask HS, cuz he owns the law. HE is above the law. HE created the law." The result of asking the HS also is also righteousness (2 Corinthians 3:8 and 9). He is the law of the Spirit of life working within us like a "law of gravity" (Romans 14:17). It does not lead us to be lawless.



I meant the reality of the law is God Himself. I should have make that clear. I assume people understand ... different audience.

E.g. God is love. The reality of love is God Himself.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Nov 29 2014, 09:39 AM

And you bribe for the glory of God like Him? Why do you bribe then ... for what purpose? I assume that he will have to justify himself at the judgement seat. And it is between him and Lord.

P.S. I am not condoning or judging what he did .... but the principle of the question stays

This post has been edited by pehkay: Nov 29 2014, 01:53 PM

Well, we can't be selective, can we? . Just as you have faith in the Spirit, you have to have faith and believe that there is a reality of righteousness as conveyed in the Bible. Otherwise, there is no authority left in the Word ... also no faith, no reality. The world has its label of righteousness but we are not talking about that. Here, the context, is the righteousness of the Spirit.

??? I can't seem to link the logic of a hypothetical spy's licence to kill to the Spirit's allowing one to kill because of his job?? I am assuming you are giving a example where the spy is a Christian and knows the Spirit?

There is no one righteous. In the New Testament, we "kill" people all the time. We are all murderers because our hidden inward motive of anger. It is not a matter of what you do, but what is within you.

Also, we cannot not use the Old Testament dispensation to justify that the HS allow killing. It is a different dispensation. God is a not a political-social reformer. He works with what the "society" man is in. And man, those time, lives, women and slaves don't worth much. Everything things is outward [including miracles] and even blessings of God are outward [more wives, children, livestock]. It is a different time.

Furthermore, all man is falls under the righteous judgement of God.

In other words, there is no justification or anything we can say about it. We are rubbish, dung, nothing. If God decided to instigate Singapore to kill us all Malaysian. He is STILL RIGHTEOUS. Because we all are sinners. We are NOTHING. It is JUSTIFIED to do whatever with us. That is how bad man's position is.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Nov 29 2014, 01:54 PM

You are a person who desire to follow the Spirit. Yet you bring out a example of someone to follow. The principle of the law is that you rather follow someone.

Usually, when we meet a person does thing not according to the Spirit, we will fellowship with the Lord and His Word. And not use it a reason to justify that since someone can do it, why don't I? It is between him and the Lord.

Also, we could turn the other way around, why not follow those who are models of one who is saved from bribing. Why don't follow those example?

Why use this one instance?

It all come to what is the motive within.



This post has been edited by pehkay: Nov 29 2014, 02:22 PM

Must be. If I remember right

You might want to consider the Word too.

I think the question is not whether God is with you or against you. But rather, are we with God or not.

Also, IMHO is, that firstly I don't know your situations. That is a fact. Neither do you know mine. That is also a fact. We are all human and have human responsibilities. Nothing can excuse us from not taking care of it, much more the divine things.

This is a public forum in anonymity. So usually when we fellowship, we share Biblical principles [without getting personal] in truth and experience. So, you don't have to bring up the reason for what you did. In a sense, we are also familiar with Christians who are worse in their environments and can experience His salvation from these things.


Indeed, I am really not in arguing mode [not sure where you get that] but rather concerned with your ... er ... "flirting with disaster" in the spiritual things. It is almost tempting the Lord per se.

The principle to fellowship with the Spirit is good yet .... the feeling within needs to be cross-checked. Even the evil spirits can speak in us or just our self-feeling and desires. [Like you said ... I could be a wolf ]

1) The Word does correspond with the feeling within.

2) The sense of life [gives us the feeling of life and peace, or, in other words, it makes us feel strong, satisfied, lively, bright and comfortable. Whenever we feel strong, satisfied, lively, bright and comfortable within, we have inward proof that we are right before God and that we are living in the spirit. Life and peace are the positive feelings which the sense of life gives us within, thus proving that our condition in life is normal.]

Romans 8:14 says, “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God." The leading of the Spirit is for sonship; to make us SONS OF GOD.

We have a mistaken, natural concept regarding the leading of the Spirit. People invariably think that the leading of the Spirit comes suddenly from the third heaven or elsewhere. Some ask the Lord for a sign saying, “O Lord, give me a sign, an indicator, whether or not I should buy this thing. Lord, if there’s transportation available, it will be a sign that You want me to buy it, but if there’s no transportation, it means that You don’t want me to buy it. Lord, keep the stores open, for if they are closed it will indicate that You do not want me to buy anything.” This is an example of a mistaken concept regarding the Lord’s leading.

The leading of the Spirit does not derive from nor depend upon outward things. The leading of the Spirit is an issue of the inner life. I would say that it comes from the sense of life, from the consciousness of the divine life within us. Hence, the leading of the Spirit is a matter of life, a matter of the sense and consciousness of life. The mind set upon the spirit is life (v. 6). How can we know this life? Not by outward things, but by the inward sense and consciousness of life. There is an inward sense which comes from setting the mind upon the spirit. If our mind is set upon our spirit, we are immediately strengthened and satisfied inwardly. We also are watered and refreshed. By that sense and consciousness we can know the life within us, and by this sense of life we can know that we are walking rightly. In other words, we know that we are under the leading of the Spirit. Therefore, the leading of the Spirit in verse 14 does not depend on outward things; it absolutely depends upon the sense of life within our spirit.

3) Vice versa, the sense of death includes weakness, emptiness, depression, darkness and pain.

4) The environment sometimes do correspond with the leading within.

5) Fellowship with the believers who cares for you and their feeling in the spirit.

6) Experiences do show that the Lord don't really answer in a QUICK way but it is always according to HIS TIMING;

These are good principles to cross-check.


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Anyway, that's that from me lar. Was just curious with some of the statements you made. Uncannily you do become an epitome of something I wrote before ...

Just do with what you want lar.

Cheer! <lurking mode>

The experience of Jacob

Jacob's Fleeing from Laban

All the changes in Jacob's environment were indicators that he should go back home. Jacob did go, but not in a noble way. He stole away from Laban. But what would have happened if he had not fled from Laban in the way he did? Laban would have exercised his power to detain his daughters and their maids and all their children. He probably would have told Jacob, "Jacob, if you want to go, then go, but you must leave everyone and everything with me." Because Jacob feared this, he stole away.

Although Jacob's way of leaving was not the right way, God allowed it to happen. Because he was not yet mature, Jacob had a weak point. Why did Jacob not put his trust in God? Since God is all-powerful and all-capable, Jacob should have trusted Him to protect his wives and children. It is easy to talk about trusting God, but it is not easy to practice it. Trusting God is not a doctrinal matter. If you had been Jacob, would you have dared to go to Laban and say, "Uncle Laban, I am leaving"? It is not easy to do this, for it requires the maturity of life and a measure of faith. In order to have the necessary measure of faith, we need the growth in life. Jacob, however, did not have this. Many times we also have been placed in situations where we had no choice except to flee, to steal away. It would be easy to rebuke Jacob for not leaving Laban publicly in an honorable and noble way. But if we examine ourselves, we shall see that many times we have done things without letting our husbands or wives know about them.

In this chapter we are told that Jacob stole the heart of Laban (v. 20, Heb.). While Jacob stole Laban's heart inwardly, Rachel stole the household images outwardly (v. 19). Even among those God-fearing people there were still idols. These were not the temple idols but the household idols, the idols which they worshipped in their homes. Because they were considered so important, Rachel stole them and Laban searched for them. Do not think that because Jacob was a saint called by God that he had an upright family. Apparently some of us have a very proper family, but God knows that we still have some household images. If the Bible did not mention these idols, no one would have ever believed that Laban or Jacob had idols in his family. But even Jacob's weakness in stealing Laban's heart was permitted by God.

We all make mistakes, but God can never be mistaken. Certainly it was not noble of Jacob to run away, but even this was under God's permission. Do not regret your mistakes, for even your mistakes work for your transformation. None of us is absolutely honest, noble, faithful, or upright. Only the Lord Jesus is such a person. We all have our weak points, our natural weaknesses. Jacob fled from Laban because he was weak in faith and weak in the ability to sacrifice.

All our mistakes, even our wrongdoings, are under God's sovereignty, and He uses them to transform us. In order to transform us, God will use our mistakes. I can testify that if I had not made certain mistakes, I would not be as transformed as I am today. The greatest amount of transformation in my life has come about through my mistakes. Nothing troubles me more than my mistakes. Whenever I thought that I was all right, the Lord allowed me to make a mistake. Nothing helps us to be transformed like our mistakes.

This does not mean that I am saying that we should do evil that good may come. No, if you intentionally make mistakes, those mistakes will not help your transformation. They will depress and condemn you. But as we try our best to avoid mistakes, we may pray, "O Lord, keep me in Your presence and never allow me to be mistaken. Lord, I fear and tremble in Your presence." Although we may pray like this, after a period of time we may still make another mistake, and the Lord will sovereignly use it for our transformation.

Ah yoh ... don't make reckless statement like this lar. This is Martin's testimony:

For a long time I went astray [in the monastery] and didn’t know what I was about. To be sure, I knew something, but I didn’t know what it was until I came to the text in Romans 1 [:17], ‘He who through faith is righteous shall live.’ That text helped me. There I saw what righteousness Paul was talking about.82 Earlier in the text I read ‘righteousness.’ I related the abstract [‘righteousness’] with the concrete [‘the righteous One’] and became sure of my cause. I learned to distinguish between the righteousness of the law and the righteousness of the gospel. I lacked nothing before this except that I made no distinction between the law and the gospel. I regarded both as the same thing and held that there was no difference between Christ and Moses except the times in which they lived and their degrees of perfection. But when I discovered the proper distinction—namely, that the law is one thing and the gospel is another—I made myself free.” (Luther's Works, Volume 54, P442).

The shinning light in Rom. 1:17 sets him free.


Peter ... his faith was in the Lord's word mah ... Not the written word at that time ... it's the Lord Himself speaking to come over. The principle is the same.

He failed ... because he couldn't believe the Lord's word.

Oklar ... no more from me.

P.S. That was when the line of law versus grace was born

This post has been edited by pehkay: Dec 1 2014, 08:12 AM

The experience of Jacob

Laban's Pursuing after Jacob

Laban pursued Jacob and overtook him (vv. 22-55). Laban had the power to hurt Jacob, but God warned him in a dream not to do anything to him (v. 24). Although Laban could not do anything, he did what all human beings do - he complained. He expressed his anger through complaining about Jacob's fleeing (vv. 26-29). Complaining is the best way to ventilate your anger. Next, Laban accused Jacob of stealing his images (vv. 30-35), and then, after the images were not found, Jacob rebuked Laban for his mistreatment (vv. 36-42). After this, Laban was subdued and, being subtle, he changed his attitude and made a covenant of peace with Jacob. This is a good example of human diplomacy.

This chapter reveals that no man is trustworthy. In chapter twenty-seven, Jacob's mother, Rebekah, thought that Laban would be a protection and help to her beloved son, Jacob. Thus, she sent Jacob away to her brother. But consider what Laban did to Jacob. No human being, even our closest relative, is trustworthy. Never put your trust in any human being. If we realize that we are God's called ones and that we are now undergoing His process of transformation, we must realize that everything is a matter of God's hand. It is not a matter of anyone's being trustworthy.

While we should not trust any human being, we should thank the Lord that everyone in our environment is under God's sovereign hand for our good. You may think that you have a faithful and trustworthy uncle. But such an uncle will not be very helpful for your transformation. As we read this chapter again and again, we can see that we should neither put our trust in anyone nor blame anyone. Whether our uncle is honest or not, we must still say, "Praise the Lord. God is sovereign. I am not in my uncle's hand, but in God's sovereign hand. Even my uncle who is not trustworthy is in God's hand for the sake of my transformation." We all need to see this and to know that nothing in our environment is trustworthy. Do not trust anything, any person, or any matter. Everything and everyone in our environment is an instrument sovereignly used by God for our transformation. If, for the sake of your transformation, you need an honest person, God will give you one. But mostly we need a Laban and cousins like Laban's sons. We should not complain, but thank God for everyone, saying, "Lord, I thank You for all my cousins. And I thank You for my uncle and even for my weaknesses." Praise the Lord that even our weaknesses are a means employed by God for our transformation.

In the scene portrayed in this chapter, the crucial person is the invisible God with His invisible hand. This chapter is not merely a story of human life; it is the revelation of the transforming God with His transforming hand. We all must see the God revealed in this chapter. The crucial character is neither Laban nor Jacob, but the hidden God who sovereignly prepares our environment for our transformation. In this chapter, God is hidden, yet He is on the alert, knowing the exact time to intervene and to speak to Jacob or to Laban. He does whatever He intends to do. Thus, the crucial person here is the sovereign, transforming God. If we see this picture, we shall rest in Him, believing that whatever we are and wherever we are, everything is all right because everything is under the sovereign hand of the transforming God.

I think in this world of political correctness "colouring" our eyes, we then to bring this to the Bible too

The term used by the Lord, "woman" is a term of respect and endearment.

The other reference is in John 19:26: "Woman, behold your son!"

According to A Manual Greek Lexicon of the New Testament by G. Abbott-Smith, using the word woman to refer to a female was "a term of respect and endearment." Bullinger's Companion Bible notation for verse 26 refers the reader to John 2:4 where Jesus also uses the term "woman." In the notes pertaining to this verse, "woman" is "a respectful form of address."

Adam Clarke's Commentary on the Bible for this verse makes an interesting comment as to WHY Jesus might have used the term "woman." It states he did so to possibly spare his mother's feelings, as the very mention of her name (given her firstborn son was being brutally killed though he was innocent) would have wrung more sorrow out of her heart.

Regarding the latter part of the sentence, Mary, the mother of Jesus, here signifies the natural man, which has nothing to do with life and which must be subdued by the divine life (vv. 3-5). When the wine was exhausted, the natural man came out and even prayed to the Lord. When Mary told the Lord, “They have no wine,” He said to her, “Woman, what have I to do with you? My hour has not yet come” (vv. 3-4). Often we are exactly like the mother of Jesus. We are today’s Mary, praying as a natural man according to our natural life.

Frequently the Lord will allow the wine in certain situations to run out in order that He might have an opportunity to change death into life. Even in a local church, the Lord may allow the situation to go into death. In such a case, the natural man will pray, “O Lord, do something to rescue the situation.” If you pray in this way, the Lord will turn to you and say, “What have I to do with you? You have nothing to do with Me in this matter.” Nearly all of us would act the same way Mary did. What then should we do? We should not do anything. Let the death come to the surface and be exposed. Then the Lord Jesus will come in.


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But then, to be fair, the Lord was genuine and frank ... and he tend to be very direct with Nicodemus, a senior respected man of the Jews.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Dec 3 2014, 07:53 AM

You know ... that the ritual laws were abolished but the moral laws are uplifted ....

Your pt. 3 is very very shaky

Expansion of God's kingdom requires the breaking of moral law .... this is really pushing it bro ... There is no such thing leh.

1 John 1:6 “If we say that we have fellowship with Him and walk in the darkness, we lie and are not practicing the truth.”

John says it so clearly .... and he is considered one who ABIDE in the Lord and walking according to the Anointing.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Dec 3 2014, 03:23 PM

And how does loving God with our whole mind, strength, etc ... cause us to grieve Him?

And how does loving our neighbour constitutes doing something negative to others?

Actually, the point of my question was ... when does following the Spirit results in unrighteousness?

Yalar ... my question still stands ...

What is your definition of righteousness then? ..... I don't understand why is it my definition since it is in the Bible.

If HS replied ... how does the HS ok with unrighteousness or sinful things? There is no such things. The HS will still be with you when you fails. But it does not mean that HS AGREED with you. To allow permissively is not "one with you"

So, now Martin Luther's standing for the truth is immoral ? You really serious? How does standing for the truth equates on the same level as stealing or murdering ??!!!

He didn't stand for the "teaching of indulgences for the forgiveness of sin" which was really immoral

He is immoral for fighting against immoral practices

You sure??

To love your neighbour is not to seek others' approval lor.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Dec 4 2014, 09:21 AM

So like this .... according to the HS speaking within me, He says you are definitely wrong in this.

So I am right right? No need to ask [like you say] ... I am right ... because the HS says so

LOL

The Spirit also say that you just wanted this leeway

Ok lar ... <lurking mode>

That is the "second generation syndrome" of those who grow up in a Christian family. That feeling right now is that one must have a real contact with God, a born again experience with God. The Lord Jesus is no longer your parent's God but your God.

I did share something with Sophiera : https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=67670162