The experience of Jacob

Jacob's Fear of Esau

Genesis 32 and 33 contain a very strange experience in the life of Jacob, the chosen one. Jacob did not trust in the Lord. Since the time he was born, he exercised his natural ability to do things for himself. In chapter thirty-one he fled from Laban, and God delivered him out of Laban's usurping hand. Because Laban told him that God had warned him not to hurt Jacob, Jacob took the opportunity to boldly rebuke him (31:24, 36). Nevertheless, the Lord brought him through that difficulty. However, in front of Jacob was another serious problem—his brother Esau.

Jacob was in a dilemma. Behind him was Laban and in front of him was Esau. I believe that while Jacob was fleeing from Laban and returning to the land of his fathers, he was greatly disturbed by these two men. It was difficult for him to remain with Laban and it was just as difficult for him to return to the place where Esau was. By God's mercy, he was released from Laban, but now he had to confront Esau.

a) Met by the Angels of God

Genesis 32:1 and 2 say, "And Jacob went on his way, and the angels of God met him. And when Jacob saw them, he said, This is God's camp: and he called the name of that place Mahanaim," which means two camps (Heb.). As Jacob went on his way, he was probably thinking about how he would face his brother. Perhaps he said to himself, "I have been delivered from my uncle, but how shall I deal with Esau, my brother?" Much to his surprise, the angels of God met him, indicating that they would protect him. God's angels are always invisibly present with His chosen people. In this instance, the angels appeared to Jacob and he saw them. He did not see a small number of angels; rather, he saw two camps of them. This reminds us of Psalm 34:7, which says, "The angel of the Lord encampeth round about them that fear him, and delivereth them." The presence of two camps of angels should have been a great encouragement to this troubled Jacob. However, he was still afraid that his brother would smite him.

b) Still Trusting in Self-striving

After Jacob saw the two camps of angels, he should have been comforted. Nevertheless, he did not trust in these two camps of angels. God's purpose in showing him this vision of angels undoubtedly was to comfort him, to strengthen him, and to cause him to trust in God's celestial armies. But Jacob did not put his trust in what he saw. Rather, Jacob, who still trusted in his self-striving (vv. 3-8), imitated God's two camps of angels by dividing his people into two camps. Instead of putting his trust in what he saw, he copied the technique. Although we can only guess at what Jacob was thinking when he did this (perhaps he thought that each of the two camps of his household would be protected by the two camps of the angels), one thing is clear—Jacob did not exercise trust in God nor in the vision of the angels; rather, he expended his time and energy in exercising his natural ability. Verses 7 and 8 say, "Then Jacob was greatly afraid and distressed: and he divided the people that was with him, and the flocks, and herds, and the camels, into two camps; and said, If Esau come to the one company, and smite it, then the other company which is left shall escape." This was Jacob's cleverness. But actually it was not clever at all, for if Esau could have smitten the first camp of women and children, why could he not have also smitten the second camp? But this dividing of his people was the best that Jacob could do.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Dec 8 2014, 07:48 AM

The experience of Jacob

Jacob's Fear of Esau

Also Calling on the Lord

After making these arrangements, Jacob probably was still not at peace. Thus, he did something unusual—he prayed (vv. 9-12). This is the first record of Jacob's praying in his entire life. (In 28:20-22 it was his vow, not his prayer to God.) During the twenty years Jacob was under the squeezing hand of Laban, there is no record that he prayed. Although Laban changed his wages ten times, Jacob did not pray. In principle, we all are Jacobs. We have received the promise of God and we have come to know God, but still we do not pray. No matter what happens to us, we do not pray. Instead of exercising our spirit to pray, we exercise our mind to consider and our natural strength to face every problem. Jacob did not pray when he was with Laban; instead, he employed his natural strength to manage the situation. But now, being about to face Esau, he was brought to a place where he had no more skill. All his skill, technique, ability, and strength had been exhausted. When he learned that Esau was coming with four hundred men, he was frightened. The most he could do was divide his people into two groups, thinking that if the first were sacrificed, the second might be spared. Because this was the best Jacob could do, he was forced to pray.

Jacob prayed a very good prayer. His prayer was much better than the prayers of most Christians today. Jacob said, "O God of my father Abraham, and God of my father Isaac, the Lord which saidst unto me, Return unto thy country, and to thy kindred, and I will do thee good" (v. 9, Heb.). Here we see that Jacob prayed by holding on to the Lord's word. The best way to pray is to take God's word as the standing for your prayer. Jacob seemed to be saying, "Lord, didn't You say that You would do me good? Now I stand on Your word and ask You to do something about it." Although this verse seems to indicate that Jacob was quite experienced in prayer, there is no hint in the previous record that he prayed at all.

In verse 10 Jacob said, "I am smaller than all the lovingkindness and all the faithfulness which thou hast showed unto thy servant; for with my staff I passed over this Jordan; and now I am become two camps" (Heb.). I like Jacob's expression here. He seemed to be saying, "Lord, my capacity is so small that it cannot contain all Your lovingkindness and faithfulness." Here, Jacob was humble in the presence of God, confessing that he was not worthy of God's rich lovingkindness and faithfulness toward him and that he had passed over Jordan with just his staff, but that the Lord had increased him to two camps. Here we see a vivid picture of two camps in the heavens and of two camps on earth. Due to this, the chosen one should have been perfectly at peace. In the next verse Jacob continued, saying, "Deliver me, I pray thee, from the hand of my brother, from the hand of Esau: for I fear him, lest he will come and smite me and the mother with the children." Here we see Jacob's fear of Esau.

The high point of Jacob's prayer is in verse 12: "And thou saidst, I will surely do thee good, and make thy seed as the sand of the sea, which cannot be numbered for multitude." In this part of his prayer, Jacob touched God's economy, for he spoke of the seed. To pray like this is not only to hold on to God's word but also to touch His heart. God had chosen Jacob with the goal of having seed for the fulfillment of His purpose to have a corporate expression of Himself on earth. Jacob probably did not understand this, but he still prayed very well. As we study this prayer, we see that it was marvelous in every respect.

The experience of Jacob

Further Striving by Himself

After praying such a marvelous prayer, Jacob surely should have been at peace. But he was still active. Instead of sleeping, he "took of that which came to his hand a present for Esau his brother" (v. 13). He divided this present into nine droves "and delivered them into the hand of his servants, every drove by themselves; and said unto his servants, Pass over before me, and put a space betwixt drove and drove" (v. 16). The purpose of this was to see what Esau's attitude toward Jacob would be. Jacob was clever, sending a present of nine droves of cattle to Esau with a space between each drove. This increased the distance between him and Esau and allowed him time to learn what Esau would do so that he might have the opportunity to prepare himself for a battle.

Consider the whole picture. Firstly, Jacob divided his people into two camps. Then, after praying an excellent prayer, he should have gone peacefully to sleep. But instead of doing so, he formed nine droves of cattle as a present for Esau in order to increase the distance between himself and Esau, thus giving him time to prepare to cope with the situation. This is a portrait of a very strange experience. On the one hand, Jacob prayed earnestly, but on the other hand, he exercised his wisdom. This is a photograph of ourselves. Although Jacob might have done this only once, I have done it many times. On the one hand, I tried my best to prepare for coping with a troublesome situation, and on the other hand, I prayed earnestly to the Lord. No matter how good my prayer was, I still did not trust in it. Jacob prayed very well, but he had no trust in his prayer. If he had, he probably would not have been so active afterward. If I had been one of Jacob's servants, I might have said, "Jacob, after praying such a prayer, you don't need to do so much."

Jacob called the nine droves of cattle a present, but they were actually a bribe. I do not believe that Jacob had such a good, loving heart toward his brother Esau. This present did not issue out of a heart of love but out of a heart of fear. Its purpose was to appease Esau. Jacob even said, "I will appease him with the present that goeth before me" (v. 20).

While Jacob's people and servants might have been sleeping peacefully, he himself could not rest. He was desperate before God. It was a matter of life or death. Jacob anticipated that a slaughter was coming, feeling quite certain that Esau would slay him and his family. Hence, Jacob had no peace. Suddenly, as Jacob was left alone, "there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day" (v. 24). This combatant was not an angel but the Lord Himself in the form of a man. Only the Bible could have this kind of story. Much to Jacob's surprise, in the depths of the night, while he was desperate, a man came to him trying His best to pin him down. Because Jacob would not give in, the two of them wrestled all night until the breaking of day. Before this, Jacob was afraid of being slaughtered. Now, he was afraid of being defeated in this wrestling match and he thrust all his energy into the struggle. The Lord did not subdue him immediately so that He might expose to Jacob how natural he was and how great his natural strength was. Eventually, the Lord touched the hollow of Jacob's thigh, causing him to become lame. Still, Jacob would not let Him go until He blessed him.

After wrestling with the Lord who came in the form of a man, "Jacob lifted up his eyes, and looked, and, behold, Esau came, and with him four hundred men" (33:1). After all the Lord's promises, after his prayer, and after wrestling with the Lord, Jacob still had something new to do. He divided his wives and children again. His first division was a division of his people into two camps according to the two camps of the angels. His second division was that of his present into nine droves. But now, after reconsidering the matter, he redivided his people according to his heart. "He divided the children unto Leah, and unto Rachel, and unto the two handmaids. And he put the handmaids and their children foremost, and Leah and her children after, and Rachel and Joseph last" (33:1-2, Heb.).

Because Jacob loved Rachel and Joseph, he put them last. Even here, at the last minute, Jacob still exercised his skill to cope with the situation. The two maids and their children went first, to be a sacrifice if necessary. The second group, including Leah and her children, followed. Rachel, the one he loved so much, and her child, Joseph, were last. This is the work of the supplanter, the one who is altogether natural. He had had the promises of God, the dealings and sufferings, the excellent prayer, the wrestling, and the previous dividing of his people, but still he did something else. This is what I mean when I say that this chapter relates a strange experience ... much like ours

Four of the twelve came from the maids. Two each.

Billah bore Dan and Napthali.

Zilpah bore Gad and Asher

. You're welcome. Night.

The experience of Jacob

Esau's Welcome of Jacob

After all this, when Jacob saw Esau, he was bold, yet humble, to go to the front to meet him (33:3-4). Verse 3 says, "And he passed over before them, and bowed himself to the ground seven times, until he came near to his brother." In a sense, he was honest and faithful to his wives and children and went to the front to pioneer the way. Jacob's coming to him in this manner greatly surprised Esau who "ran to meet him, and embraced him, and fell on his neck, and kissed him" (v. 4). Both Jacob and Esau wept. By this we see that all of Jacob's fears were products of his own worrying and that all he did was in vain. He did not need to divide his people into two camps, to pray the best prayer, to present nine droves of cattle as a gift to Esau, to wrestle with the Lord in the form of man, and to divide his wives, children, and maids the second time. If he had truly known God and had trusted in Him, he would have been continually at peace, saying, "I am not worried about Esau because God has promised to bring me back to my father's land. He even told me to go back, and I have the peace that He will bring me there. No matter what Esau might do to me, I am not concerned because my God has given me His word."

We all must learn from Jacob's experience. We do not need to do so much. Are we not today's Jacobs, the chosen ones? Surely we are. Has not the Lord given us His promise? Certainly He has. Are not the camps of angels encompassing us? We must believe that they are. We may think that certain people are our enemies. The enemy, Satan, may inject thoughts into our minds regarding our Laban or Esau. All such thoughts are vain. Recall your past. Have you not done many things which eventually proved to be useless? Whatever we did was in vain. Many times I have said to myself, "Man, you are really stupid. You have wasted your time and energy in doing things in vain. Nothing of what you have done was a help, for the Lord did not use them." Surely Jacob never dreamed that Esau would have come to him with such fervent love. God frustrated Laban by speaking to him in a dream and also He aroused Esau's brotherly love toward Jacob. Hence, Esau did not come to Jacob with hatred or with the desire for vengeance; rather, he came with warm, brotherly love. Esau had forgotten the suffering Jacob had caused him. But Jacob, the supplanter, had not forgotten what he had done to his brother. In this we see God's marvelous acts.

Many times, undoubtedly, we all love the Lord. By loving the Lord, you have the assurance that you are one of the chosen ones. As chosen ones, the Lord's promise, His goal, and His destination are for you. The Lord has charged us all to advance toward the goal, to go on to our Father's land where we can enjoy the riches of the Lord for His eternal purpose. So we simply need to enjoy peace in Him. Do not be bothered by any Labans or Esaus. Whatever happens, simply rest in Him. Usually, one day we will discover that all the things that worried us will come to nothing. You do not need to do anything, for actually there is no real trouble either in front of you or behind you. Apparently, there is a great deal of difficulty; actually, because you are God's chosen ones under His all-sufficient care, there is no difficulty at all. You are God's chosen ones assured with His promise and charged with His goal. Now you are on the way. As long as we are on the way to reach God's goal and as long as we have His promise as His chosen ones, everything is all right.

The experience of Jacob

Esau's Welcome of Jacob pt 2

These two chapters are a portrait revealing what kind of God our God is. We can all testify of His lovingkindness and faithfulness. No matter what our circumstances are, the Lord is here. We do have Him, His promise, His goal, and His armies. Forget about your skill and your ability to cope with the situation. Jacob was very skillful, dividing his people firstly in one way and then in another. As we have seen, the second division of his people was according to his heart's desire to preserve Rachel and Joseph. But nothing he did was useful; everything was in vain. What a good picture this is for us today.

Sometimes the Bible has a play on words. For example, there were two camps of angels, and Jacob divided his people also into two camps. Later, he divided the cattle into nine droves. When Esau beheld all these droves, he did not call them droves, but camps, saying, "What meanest thou by all this camp which I met?" (33:8, Heb.). Esau seemed to be saying, "Jacob, did you send these camps to fight against me? What does this mean?" Jacob replied, "These are to find favor in the sight of my lord...Take, I pray thee, my blessing that is brought to thee" (vv. 8, 11, ASV). Notice that Jacob changed the word from present to blessing. Apparently he was saying, "Esau, I do not come to fight against you but to give you this blessing. These are not camps; they are my blessing to you." After this, Jacob and Esau were at peace.

Esau, having a good heart, said to Jacob, "Let us take our journey, and let us go, and I will go before thee" (v. 12). Jacob, however, was still somewhat fearful of Esau and did not want to stay in his presence very long. Using his cleverness once again, he said, "My lord knoweth that the children are tender, and the flocks and herds with young are with me: and if men should overdrive them one day, all the flock will die. Let my lord, I pray thee, pass over before his servant: and I will lead on softly, according as the cattle that goeth before me and the children be able to endure, until I come unto my lord unto Seir" (vv. 13-14). In other words, Jacob was saying, "Please leave me. I don't want to stay with you. As long as you are here, I am threatened." When Esau said, "Let me now leave with thee some of the folk that are with me," Jacob said, "What needeth it? Let me find favor in the sight of my lord" (v. 15, ASV). As long as Jacob could see Esau's face or the faces of Esau's men, he could have no peace. Many times, even after we have passed through a certain thing, the tail of that problem is still within us, and we do not want to be reminded of it. Actually, that was not a troublesome thing; it was a loving thing. Esau came with a loving heart. But Jacob's fear had not entirely subsided. This is an accurate picture of our experience.

If I had been Jacob, I might have said to myself, "Stupid man, you didn't need to do anything. You have the Lord's promise and you are moving toward His goal. You saw His angels and He Himself even wrestled with you, changed your name to Israel, and gave you a blessing. What else do you need? You should not do anything." Jacob, on the contrary, was very busy, scurrying about like an ant on a hot frying pan. In these two chapters there is no hint that Jacob had any enjoyment. I doubt that he either ate or slept well. He was constantly busy, thinking about how to face the situation and how to deal with Esau. Even when Esau came to him in a loving way, Jacob still did not trust him but asked him to go on ahead of him. Actually, Jacob was saying, "Esau, don't stay here. Take your four hundred men and go ahead. Your men frighten me. I don't want any one of them to stay with me." What a strange experience this was, yet it is our experience!

O_X ... how is that any different from being political?

It is actually true. But I will put it this way. The goal is to remember Christ and He is the reality of all day.

So, in essence, you should "celebrate Christmas" every day

The purpose is to enjoy Him everyday ... and not only "once" a year

The experience of Jacob

Being Broken Pt 1

Genesis 32:22-32 relates a crucial experience in the life of Jacob, God's chosen one. This is truly an extraordinary portion of the Holy Word. It is unique, and there is no other passage in the Bible that is similar to it. However, due to the lack of experience, most Christians have not paid adequate attention to this part of Scripture.

Jacob's experience in this chapter is very practical, personal, and intimate. What could be more intimate than wrestling with someone for at least half a night? The Lord in the form of man wrestled with Jacob "until the breaking of the day" (v. 24). The Lord God would never wrestle with a stranger or with an unbelieving sinner. Notice that we are not told that the man "came" to wrestle with Jacob. There is no verse which says, "While Jacob remained there alone considering his trouble, the Lord came to wrestle with him." No, it simply says, "There wrestled a man with him," indicating that the man was already there and that there was no need for him to come. This reveals that the Lord had been with Jacob all the time.

Why did the Lord suddenly begin to wrestle with Jacob? There certainly must have been a reason for it. It was due to Jacob's background. As he was returning to his father's land, he had two problems—Laban behind him and Esau in front of him. Having been released from the usurping hand of Laban, he was now desperate as he faced the coming confrontation with his brother, Esau. It was at this time that the wrestling took place. Jacob's messengers had returned with the report that Esau was coming to meet Jacob with four hundred men. When Jacob heard this report, he was terrified.

According to Jacob's understanding, if Esau was coming to welcome him, there would have been no need of the four hundred men. It seemed to him that Esau was like a captain coming with an army. Undoubtedly, Jacob thought that Esau was coming to smite him. Believing this, Jacob was forced to pray. After praying an excellent prayer, he divided his gift of cattle for Esau into nine droves. But he had no peace, because his problem was still directly in front of him. Therefore, as verses 22 and 23 say, "He rose up that night, and took his two wives, and his two womenservants, and his eleven sons, and passed over the ford Jabbok. And he took them, and sent them over the brook, and sent over that he had." After doing all this, Jacob was alone and was probably considering the situation further and wondering what to do in case Esau would attack him. Jacob's burden was heavy, his situation was serious, and he was desperate.

The Bible gives no indication that Jacob prayed when he was alone. Many times, when you are not troubled, you pray, but when you are deeply troubled, you do not pray. The more you are troubled, the less you pray. Because the trouble is difficult and the situation serious, you simply cannot pray. Why? Because you have not yet been knocked down. No matter how serious the problem is, you have not been knocked down. Like Jacob, on the one hand we cannot go on, but on the other hand we do not pray. Rather, we remain there and ponder the situation, asking ourselves what to do.

.....

Haha ... it is challenging because our natural man will go against the Lord's yoke or the Father's will.

If you read my earlier posts, God's heart desire is to constitute man with Himself as his life and content through His working Himself into man.

But our being is so "whole" and "unbroken" that it is hard for the Lord to break through us to saturate our soul (transformation).

The experience of Jacob

Being Broken Pt 2

At this point we need to ask four questions. First, why did the Lord as a man wrestle with Jacob? What was the need of this? When the Lord appeared to Abraham, He did so as the God of glory. But here we do not see that the Lord appeared to Jacob, but that He wrestled with him as a man. Second, why could the Lord, who is the Almighty, not prevail against Jacob, a little man? Third, why did the Lord wait so long before touching the hollow of Jacob's thigh? Why did He not do it at the very beginning? The Lord must have wrestled with Jacob for at least six hours, perhaps beginning at midnight and continuing until dawn. Why did the Lord tolerate this wrestling for so long? And fourth, why did the Lord refuse to tell Jacob His name? On many other occasions, the Lord revealed His name to people, telling them who He was. But here, after being asked by Jacob to reveal His name, He declined to tell him, keeping His name a secret. Although I do not have a complete answer to all these questions, we can, through our experience, at least partially answer them.

In this portion of the Word, we do not have an appearing of the God of glory; neither do we have a visitation from the Lord. To Abraham, the Lord firstly appeared as the God of glory (Acts 7:2). Later, in Genesis 18, the Lord visited him and shared a meal with him. But this experience of Jacob's was neither an appearance of God nor a visitation from the Lord; it was a dealing. When you were saved, the Lord appeared to you, and many times after that you have had sweet and pleasant visitations of the Lord. But besides the Lord's appearing at the time of our salvation and His visitation in moments of fellowship, there are times when the Lord deals with us. At the beginning of these dealings, we do not realize that the Lord is present. We think that our husband, our wife, or an elder is affording us a difficult time. Eventually, we realize that it is not a matter of our husband, our wife, or of one of the elders; it is God who is here dealing with us.

This gives us the answer to the first question concerning the Lord's wrestling with Jacob in the form of a man. God does not deal with us in an apparent way, appearing as the God of glory. At the beginning of every dealing, we always think that some person is wrestling with us. Often, the wrestling lasts a long time. With Jacob, it might have been six hours, but with us, it may be six weeks, six months, or even six years. Sisters, how long have you been wrestling with your husband? Perhaps you wrestle with him every day. You realize that, as a Christian, there can be no separation or divorce. But you certainly feel free to exchange words with him. Perhaps you say to yourself, "It is unfortunate that I married this man. Since I cannot divorce him, I can at least argue with him." Some wives have been wrestling with their husbands for a long time. The same, of course, is true with us husbands, for we also wrestle with our wives. With many of us, married life is a wrestling life. Although we may think that we are wrestling with our husband or wife, the other party is actually not our husband, our wife, an elder, or any circumstance, it is the Lord Himself who is wrestling with us. In our experience, we eventually realize that the Lord is here. For example, a sister may eventually say, "It is not my husband who is wrestling with me—it is the Lord."

If we understand the answer to the first question, we should be able to answer the other three questions. In His appearing for our salvation, the Lord reveals Himself as the Lord of glory, but in His dealings with us, He keeps Himself secret. Whenever we undergo a dealing, we think that it comes from a person or a situation; we do not consider it as coming from the Lord. But whenever a dealing comes, we must realize that the Lord is there. Do not ask His name. Often brothers have said, "Doesn't the Lord know everything? Since He does, why doesn't He do something about my wife?" The answer is that the Lord's dealing is a secret. Through Jacob's experience we can realize the name of the One who is wrestling with us. For a sister, the Lord's name might be "husband," and for a brother, the Lord's name might be "wife." In some cases the name of the Lord might be "hard-dealing elder."

If we would be honest and open, many would admit that they have questions about their marriage. Many have asked, "Why?" A brother may ask, "Of all the young sisters in the church, how did I happen to marry this one?" Whenever we are dealt with, we do not recognize at first that it is the Lord's doing. Sometimes we do realize it, but refuse to admit it. If we did admit it, we would certainly stop wrestling immediately. Therefore, we strive to the uttermost not to be subdued; rather we exert ourselves to subdue the other party, in most cases not realizing that we are actually wrestling with the Lord.

....


This post has been edited by pehkay: Dec 22 2014, 11:50 AM

Nathan was being careful

I think there is a need of a change of concept. God is not in a business of answering prayers

Even if He does listen, He only answered them according to His timing, His purpose etc. and not according to what you think you need

Prayer is not merely asking ... but rather prayer is man gaining God into Him. It is the mutual contact between man and God.

A real prayer is also man breathing in God just as he breathes in air. While you are thus breathing in God, spontaneously you are obtaining God, just as when you breathe in air you receive air. Consequently, not only is God obtained by you and becomes your enjoyment, but also your whole being surrenders to God, turns unto God, and is wholly gained by God. The more you pray, the more you will be filled with God, and the more you will surrender yourself to God and be gained by Him. If you do not pray for a week or, even worse, a month, then you will be quite far from God. What does it mean to be quite far from God? It means that you cannot obtain God and be obtained by Him. The only remedy for this situation is to pray. And it is not enough to pray for only two or three minutes; you must pray again and again until you have actually breathed God and are actually obtained by God, and God by you.

The important thing is not so much about answered prayer but rather did you gain God into you? Did you touch God?

This post has been edited by pehkay: Dec 22 2014, 10:13 PM

The experience of Jacob

Being Broken Pt 3

Let us now consider the second and third questions. If the Lord subdued us immediately, how would we ever be exposed? Some may ask, "I have been praying for my wife for years. Why doesn't the Lord answer me? Why does she never change?" The answer is that you need to be exposed. The Lord wrestled with Jacob in order to expose how natural he was. This exposure required at least half a night. We also need a long time of trouble. Many of us are still wrestling. The Lord is attempting to subdue you, but you are fighting to subdue your circumstances. Perhaps your wife is being used by the Lord to subdue you, but you exercise your strength to defeat her. Hence, the wrestling continues. May the light shine upon us to see that for years we have been wrestling. Eventually, we will see that the purpose of this is to expose how natural we are. The problem is not with our spouse—it is with our natural strength. We are still just a natural man.

What was wrong with Jacob that the Lord had to wrestle with him? There was nothing wrong. The reason the Lord wrestled with Jacob was because he was still so natural. Here the dealing is not with anything sinful; it is with the natural life, with the natural man. It takes a long time to expose our natural life. We need an extended period of wrestling before this can take place. Through this period of wrestling, our naturalness, like Jacob's, is utterly exposed. As we read chapters thirty-one, thirty-two, and thirty-three, we see how natural Jacob was. He had been dealt with and he had suffered a great deal, but, in chapter thirty-two, he was still natural. He did not trust in the Lord, and he was absolutely unable to express the Lord. He was natural, and his expression was full of himself.

At a certain point during this night of wrestling, the Lord touched the hollow of Jacob's thigh. Verse 25 says, "And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him." The Lord touched the sinew of Jacob's thigh. The sinew of the thigh is our strongest muscle. The Lord's intention was not to subdue Jacob but to expose him. After exposing his natural life, the Lord touched Jacob's thigh. It was immediately dislocated, and Jacob was crippled. As verse 31 points out, Jacob "limped upon his thigh" (Heb.).

After his thigh was dislocated, Jacob might have thought to himself, "This wrestler is greater than I am. He has not killed me, but he has certainly touched me and made me limp." Realizing that this wrestler was greater than he, Jacob asked him to bless him (v. 26). I doubt that even at this time Jacob realized that this wrestler was God. After touching him, the wrestler said to Jacob, "Let me go, for the day breaketh" (v. 26). But then Jacob said, "I will not let thee go, except thou bless me" (Heb.). After Jacob said this, the Lord asked Jacob what his name was (v. 27). Since the Lord already knew Jacob's name, why did He ask him this question? It was to cause Jacob to realize who he was and to force him to admit that he was Jacob, the supplanter. After Jacob divulged his name, the wrestler said, "Thy name shall be no more called Jacob, but Israel; for thou has wrestled with God and with men, and hast prevailed" (v. 28, Heb.). The name Israel means "wrestler with God." Many Christians know that Israel means "the Prince of God," but, as the best lexicons and translations make clear, this meaning is secondary. The primary meaning of the name Israel is a "wrestler with God."

Lol ... I think you are confused with the word mindset ... it's good to have a positive mindset toward the Lord.

The "pride" that they refers to is not the mindset but rather your thinking that you are the hero, the strong one among the others. That, we who don't have "God's grace??" are wrong.

Do you see how you always sway aside things that don't go along with you? That is the very definition of hero.


.... did I say that other mindset is wrong? I only states that it's better to have a positive mindset towards God.

My point is that it is NOT about the mindset and its relation to "pride"

This post has been edited by pehkay: Dec 23 2014, 02:21 PM

You just displayed what you are accusing me of ...

Well ... <back to lurking>

The experience of Jacob

Being Broken Pt 4

After Jacob heard that his name had been changed to Israel, a wrestler with God, he immediately realized that this wrestler was God. Perhaps he said to himself, "Oh! This One is God, and He has called me the wrestler of God." Then Jacob said, "Tell me, I pray thee, thy name" (v. 29). The Lord replied, "Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name?" (v. 29). The Lord did not tell Jacob His name. In our experience, the dealing Lord is always a secret. However, although He did not reveal His name to Jacob, the Lord blessed him. After blessing Jacob, there is no record that the Lord left him. The Lord had been with him all the time and, even after the wrestling, He was still there. The Lord neither came nor went; He simply wrestled with Jacob. If that was Jacob's experience in Old Testament times, it is even more true with us today. The Lord will never leave us. Whenever we require a dealing, He will render the precise dealing we need.

Verse 30 says, "And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." After the Lord blessed him, Jacob fully realized that the wrestler was God and he named that place Peniel, which means "the face of God."

After considering Jacob's experience in this chapter, we may think that he had been transformed by it. Actually, however, there was no transformation at all, for chapter thirty-three reveals that Jacob was still Jacob. There was no change in his way of living. He was still planning, dividing, and doing everything possible to cope with the situation. Although there was no change in his way of living, there definitely was a change in his life, his very life had been touched. After his experience at Peniel, he limped. Both before and after the Lord touched him, he could do anything, but after the Lord touched him, whatever he did was done with a limp.

With us Christians there are two kinds of failures and weaknesses—those without a limp and those with a limp. For example, we may lose our temper with or without a limp. I may lose my temper with a brother, but even in this losing of my temper, others will notice that I am limping. If you do nothing, others will be unable to perceive your limp. But the more Jacob acted, the more his limp was exposed. Let me say, however, that we should not try to imitate a limp. Imitation never works.

Whether or not you realize it, recognize it, or admit it, the fact is that you are under the Lord's dealing. Sooner or later, you will have the sense that you have been touched by Him. When that time comes, you will know that you are limp and that you will never be the same. You may still have your weaknesses, but you will not be the same. If you still can be the same, it is an indication that you have never experienced the Lord's touching.

With Jacob, the Lord's touching was once for all. But with us, there may be several touchings. Nevertheless, the principle is the same. Many of us can testify that since the day we first loved the Lord, especially since we came into the church life and began to follow the Lord, we found ourselves in circumstances where we were being dealt with. We were constantly wrestling. For a long time, we did not realize that the Lord was dealing with us. One day, the Lord suddenly touched us, and we came out lame. After that, we were not the same. Perhaps we were still natural or weak, but we were not the same.

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