I am not there nowadays. But you know I was there in the past.

They're talking about the Bible now, saying it's a fairy tale and imaginary stories like angels equating with pink unicorns.

Interested to rebut that?

I did b4. I think you saw that.
But then, what end up happening was that they started using names on me.
I am confident because I tend to look at things from a deeper point of view. The issue with Athiest is, they only look at the surface. But they cannot deal with the deeper issues.
That is what happens when you try to remove the spiritual aspect of things. You lose the "flavour". God is a spiritual being. So truth can only be fully understood when you look at it from a spiritual point of view and not just a materialistic point of view.

The thing is, when people have no interest in the truth, they will try all means to suppress it. Even using the most absurd means. No integrity at all. No matter how much you say, they will always suppress the truth.

As for right now, I do have more urgent things to do and I am not convicted to do anything right now.

I will not even worry about Joseph Prince at this point.

Too many people out there who loves controversy more then the truth.

I would prefer to focus on what's happening in the world right now.

Interesting how Satan hand seems to be working right now.

Then what I said is right, if any believers want to go into RWI and defend your faith, you have to know how to handle all that, including name callings.

If you can maintain without reacting to name calling as well, then that's good.
But if you're affected by name callings, don't go in there.

That's why i discourage my fellow Christians from going there. I don't want your emotions effected. Bible also say have nothing to do with all these silly argument against the people of the world.

Besides what is the point if you know they're not interested in God anyway but to just mock your Faith ?

Are you reformed? Haha. Have you read his strange fire book?

I'm not dwelling on Prince as a controversy btw. The context of the argument is that UK was defending a bunch of false teachers and saying that they didn't preach the prosperity gospel. I went from arguing why it isn't wrong for a Christian to call out false teachers and why Joseph prince is a prosperity gospel teacher. I believe it's an important issue although I think the prosperity gospel is so obviously false: but because of the anti intellectual culture we have here in Malaysia, many Christians succumb to it. If Christians cannot even discern between prosperity theology and the real thing, how much more will they be vulnerable to stuff from the new atheists.

Just because there's name calling, it does not mean I should let name calling affect me from spreading the truth.
If I stand on the truth, whatever name calling they do on me, is only testiment that they are on the wrong. Yes, I do gain from that satisfaction. I feel satisfied when people have to resort to name calling to win the argument because that is to me the ultimate victory. When others have to resort to name calling, it means that I am even more convince of the truth.

The bible talks about entertaining vain phillosophies of the world. It talks about the "foolishness" of the truth. But then, it also says that eventually the "foolishness" of the truth will triumph the wisdom of the world. I do not think it talks about sily arguments.

You see, my mind set is different from yours. I do not need seek approval.

In fact, even to my pastor, I can discuss my disagreements to him. Yes, telling the church that you disagree with them on certain things will lead to you being more isolated but then that is what truth is about.

In fact, truth will cause even your own family to hate you.

If you are so afraid of proclaiming the truth, you are not worthy to be Jesus disciple.

i am reformed on most part.

But then when it comes to eschatology, I am a premil.
Reformed are generally amil.

I would not want to debate on eschatology with you right now. My church is reformed and amil. I openly told my pastor of my concerns of the amil position.
I still hold that God has a huge plan for the nation of Israel.

I do not believe in infant baptism, the theology whereby babies who die goes straight to heaven, and perheps some other things.
If you look at the previous thread, I question some of the bible versions that are out there.

The thing is, I really try not to let theology in general cloud my understanding of scriptures.
The reformed church seperated from the catholic church. Unfortunately, the reformed church also took along some of the questionable customs that were in the catholic church.

Well, I am convinced of my position on cessationalism. So, I would not really read that book since my position on this is already very strong.

This post has been edited by sylar111: Nov 3 2014, 12:52 PM

Wow now we can have a good discussion

I agree. A reformed church is always reforming: it is always supposed to check itself with scripture and not let their theology cloud their exegesis.

What church are you from, if I may ask? Chances are we might have bumped into each other in real life before.

I attended a local conference on the reformation last year btw. Carl Trueman was talking to us via Skype about the history behind the reformation, and the differences even within the reformed camp.

I have debated with SpikeMarlene before.

I would say that he is not really smart. In fact, I laugh everytime I debate with him because he always come out short. In the end, he has to defend his arrr stupidity.

The thing is, he is not really worth my time. I know his weak points. But then, for people like him, he will never admit to that.

Thing is, you guys over here would not debate with him. Because he would make you look very foolish. On the other hand, as I have said many times, most of the time, when someone debates with me, I would make that person look so foolish that he will have to resort to name calling in the end.

I debated him a few years back. At least he's not a raging troll like someone like simpletraveler!

Currently I am with Serpang Grace Baptist Church.

Well, yes it's supposed to be reforming. Unfortunately, we are humans.
Most of the time, we trust our theology and our teachers more then the word of God.

Which church are you from?

I debated him a few years back. At least he's not a raging troll like someone like simpletraveler!

It's not about seeking approval but winning people's soul to Christ through Love.

That is what Jesus meant by loving your enemies and loving our brothers.

If you do out of spitefulness, it won't work. No matter how hard you try.

People may not agree with my values for example, I don't agree in premarital sex but they are still friends with me, still approachable for conversation, regardless.

If you keep on creating enemies, you're not being effective for Christ in the kingdom of God.

God did not call you to push people away but to show them through your life, that God loves them. What is the point if you keep on isolating yourself from everyone?
They'll just avoid talking with you and how will they hear the gospel correctly if you are isolated from them?

I think you misunderstood that principal that the world will hate you because of Christ does not mean you should equally hate them back. That is wrong principal.

It's okay to note who is teaching wrongly and call them out as per example of yours about Christ being a woman, things like that and yet I also said do it with tact.

But what I'm against, if the teaching is not wrong and yet you call them out. This is something I will not tolerate because it's not true.


I've tried to show you why prosperity isn't wrong and you just go emo without giving proper and rational answer that's justifiable in scripture.

Mind you Joshua isn't the only portion of verse that support this, there are many more.

And who says we aren't in grated into the branch of Israel, qualified to claim that promise as well?

I have scripture evidence for that.

Nope.
The bible says explicitly that Christians will be hated for proclaiming the truth.

The thing is truth seperates.

I am debating with them not out of spikefulness, but then out of love for the truth. When people spit on the truth, it makes me very angry.

I never said I hate them.

When I told my pastor that my views is different, it's not out of spikefulness. It's because my conscience tells me that if I do not agree with what the pastor says, I need to tell the pastor. Of course I have to do so in a nice way, but I do not have the conscience to nod my head in agreement with whatever the pastor says just to get his approval.

UW, why are you always assuming things. How old are you? I thought there is an age whereby people stop assuming things.
I never said I hate anyone. In fact, I really do not hate you. I just hate the way you keep on misrepresenting truth again and again.


PS: Decky, now you know why I do not post in this thread anymore. You see, most people here do not even know their fundamentals. That is why I decided not to waste my time debating. But then you are an exception to the case.

You don't need to tell me about Christians being hated, I'm well aware of that.

Out of love for the truth and out of love for sinners and people as well, it goes hand in hand.

And loving them does not mean you fall back from the truth and it also does not mean you making a fool of them just because they don't understand scripture. Nobody can unless the HS convicts and open up their understanding.

Okay so I will take your word for it, But I do remember you calling other believers here as pharisee and saying they will go to hell, that is really uncalled for.

But okay, I will remember what you say and give you the benefit of doubt anyway, since I appreciate your honesty here.

Well,
I never deny that.

I said that their behavior is comparable to the pharaisees. The pharaisees were people who knew the scriptures but still deny the truth when the truth was presented to them. I see a similar pattern overhere.
The thing is, when people deny truth to such a degree, I seriously doubt that the HS is in them. The bible talks about condemnation of false teachers. I see someone over here who is close to being that (not refering to you by the way).

One good example, it is well documented that Kong Hee has done many things. Yet, he is still promoted over here. After making Christians downgrade their apartment and yet he lives in luxury, this guy is still promoted over here. If you do not get angry something is wrong with you. Even non believers are angry with him. Christians are supposed to have a higher standard.

It's not just about understanding of scriptures. It's about denying the truth.

The thing is, yes, I was probably angry with you. But then, I do not keep my anger inside. Because after all, it will not profit me. I keep my anger within this thread that's all.

@all ... what is name calling ? sorry for noob questions...

Yes I know the bible talks about their condemnation but I don't remember If the Bible ever encourage us to condemn them.

I remember Kong Hee was well sought after speaker before this incident. He came to Malaysia quite frequent.

I'm not too sure about that story of him making other Christians downgrade their apartment. Where did you hear that from?

I don't think we should judge which Christian has the HS, it's not right.

Denying the truth and not understanding the truth are 2 different things.
Nobody can confess Jesus is Lord unless they have the HS. I believe that person did confess Jesus is Lord before.

1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

This is one way to know.