don't worry deadlock... your condition is: in deadlock. you cannot go left hand without release right hand, but before release right hand you need left hand.

This condition will literally kill you in long run, in short run you feel depressed.

I pray for you.

In the meantime: 3 words.

DO NOT SUFFER... any suffering it's not from CHRIST. It's from devil.

Not until i can get from HS that you are healthy enough to pick up the cross, Therefore in the mean time: DO NOT SUFFER.

tina, what he said does make sense you are right too, suffering come  from devil yes it's true but he left out the words God allowed it, remember Job?

ya

1 Co 10: 13 "No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it."

Actually the whole context of Romans 9 is talking about Salvation where  Righteousness is by Faith vs by Works (Human Effort). Something that we cannot obtain by our merit. Why God choose to open up this offer to the gentile world (all non jews -  meaning us) rather than retaining it only to the Jew and change the way to obtain righteousness by way of the Law to the way of Faith.

Everything that was orchestrated, in the signs and the types and the history of the OT of making Salvation known, why He ended the Old Covenant and established a New one in the NT.....In all that orchestrating God is sovereign. That it's by God's grace or mercy, why things happened the way it happened in the OT. That is the meaning.

You'll notice the key phrase is mentioned in verse 8 and 16 of the same chapter. And why He talk about Children of the promise (Isaac) divine birth that is later repeated in more detail explanation in Galatians 4:21-31.

You will understand better why Paul was trying to establish in Chapter 9 when you start to read in verse 30 to 33 and then when you see the next chapter in Romans 10, its all about Righteousness by Faith.

That is the context. Suffering is not really the subject here in Romans 9.

true, but i see from another angle 

i go to mudah i can get car for RM5000 (super old kancil), or get motorcycle brand new for about RM3000 ? that resolves transportation issues
house ? home can rent in kampong / sub urbs for RM500 monthly. he stay in melaka... so assume around that price lah hehe...

i mean cuz they are young, they can stretch themshelves.

now let's assume both couple earn at least RM2000 to RM5000 lahh.... if both couple earn RM1000 or below oh no... then our math kaput lahh....

---

the church always need money lah brader.... regardless big / small church ... so the best investment is to invest in church...
our GOD is a good GOD. instead of depends on bank loan and pay interest, why don't we invest in church, and the interest is ... being patience ? from all ends / all angle is good in the long run

I'm quite careful when it comes to Bible exposition. 
If You have your bible with you, turn to Romans Chapter 9 and see why it starts talking about the Salvation of Israel in verse 6 all the way to verse 9

and

why it starts talking about God being sovereign in the scheme of his choosing people from verse 10 all the way to verse 24

and

why it starts talking about opening Salvation to the Gentiles in verse 25 all the way to verse 29.

THEN in verse 30 to 33, why does the starting verse starts like this:

What then shall we say?

It means that the preceding explanation from verse 6 to 29 is to support what it's trying to conclude in verse 30 to 33.

Which btw.....if you notice verse 30 to 33 talks about Righteousness by Faith vs works. What has that got to do with suffering? 

It's alright, we all learn.

Chapter 9 speaks of Israel rejection, because they rejected Jesus as Messiah, God opened this Salvation to the world as a sign to the Jews to spite them to jealousy.

Actually all in all, God still cares for them, wanting them to be saved.  (Romans 10:21)

Not all the Jews. Many are coming to Christ. I've met face to face visiting Christians Jews in my church.
They too are trying to evangelize to their own people. Can say part of the Jews are opening up to Christ.

That's why we need to pray for them, that their heart will continuously be open.
Jesus would return immediately the moment Israel declare "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'

Of course majority of them are still into Judaism, some have turned secular but the things is, God is still working in their lives.
They're the most blessed people on this planet.

---------------@ ngai & tina
i was looking for some houses in sub-urbs cuz simple prices goes up around sunway, but my income was naturally "steady". I hate my margin becoming lesser so i was doing some homework.

---------------@tina
about "invest" i will post some paraphrases later on

---------------@luffy
i agree ... basicly instead of bible verses as devotional, i gave him new mindset to meditate. meditate my comments then being his devotional material

i am not salary man. I run business.

about other comments same like @tina, i will post some parapharses later on.

---------------@ngai
my contractor fren say most housing prices are in "bubbling" state, so experts cannot confirm next 5 years whatever we do today is equal with what happen to ppl who purchased housing back in 2010 / 2011...

So far with so many uncertainty, investing in church is the best options. but again,

to balance things... i ask HS

I didn't know that.

hmmm I never did ask you this: but what are you doing here in Malaysia?

I don't think God wants you to give all your finances to the Church. Where got such a thing?

Tithe is the only requirement.

Giving beyond your tithe to the Church is a conviction between you and God.

When a believer does this, He should do it willingly and cheerfully not forcefully.

I don't think I've come across any Christian who's forced to do it unwillingly.

I believe tithing is an act of worship. I give my tithes unquestioningly whether I'm financially tight or not. I don't care if the amount is huge in thousands, I give because I believe in tithing.

For me fundamentally Tithing is important.

but beyond that, What I mean is, beyond the Tithe amount which could be offerings or pledge, I don't advise my fellow Christians to feel condemn if they don't give. Give with a cheerful heart, even if you don't give, don't feel guilty and don't feel condemn. It's not right.

What's your job ah? are u an expat?

The part I mention on willingly is for beyond tithing. I see Tithe as fundamentally important.

I may step on some toes about tithing because not every Christians understand what tithing is all about.

There are different opinions saying tithing is under Law, we are under grace, therefore it's not a commandment.

We're no longer bound to tithe.....If only they knew that Tithing existed way before the Law was given.

Abraham tithe 10%....even though there's no Law to force him or commanded him, think about it. I believe Abraham understood tithing. Though not recorded but I believe He got the revelation, the reason why to Tithe and that reason is consistent with the Book of Malachi.

Tithe means a tenth which is 10%.

In ancient times before money existed people tithe with whatever goods their hands produce.

Today we tithe with our Finance resources because bartering goods has been replaced with money.
We no longer work for exchange of goods but salary, so we tithe from our Salary.

Offering is whatever that is given beyond the 10% of our tithes, that is the difference.

Saying we tithe because we love God is not scripturally correct imo.

We tithe because it's a proclamation of our Faith in God. It's an act of worship of trusting God.

Trusting God in what?

Trusting God that He will protect our finances from being devoured by the enemies and
Trusting God that He will open the windows of Heaven and Bless us because we tithe.

but do you know how does that work?

(gee I'm teaching bible lesson in wee hours of the morning  )
Romans 11:16 - If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.

Do you know that when you offer the first fruit of your tithe to God, it becomes Holy? When the first fruit becomes Holy, the whole batch is also holy, which means  the rest of your money is also considered Holy to the Lord? What is Holy to God, the Devil cannot touch*.

I'm going to skip explaining in detail and say this in conclusion, hopefully those who read will be patience with me.

God ordained Tithing for our sake. It is for our benefit. Why? Because for one, God doesn't need our money.
Neither is He demanding money for himself. How can we give physical money to a Spirit God? Besides the whole Earth belongs to God, all the cattles, the Hills, the gold, the silver..all Belongs to the Almighty. How can we give something that already belong to God in the first place? (This is a bit deep, but think about it)

If God is not in need of our Money..then why does He command us to tithe?

When you study scripture, after understanding the reason, you will come to realize, he ask us to do this is more for our sake.

So that there resources for God's people in God's Kingdom (Malachi 3:10)
To protect us from the curse of barren or fruitless (Malachi 3:9 relating to Malachi 3:11)
That He'll open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing (Malachi 3:10)
That's He'll rebuke the devourer for our sake (Malachi 3:11)

Even the phrase "for our sake" (Malachi 3:11) is clearly emphasize by the HS in this passage.

He is a good God, Tina, He's not after our money. Tithing is really for our benefit. It will be inappropriate for a Righteous God who cannot lie to say
so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it (Malachi 3:10) to hoodwink or tempt us to give. Even if not for those reason, it's not appropriate for a Holy God
to say such things. but He did.  So I'm far convince tithing is really for our sake! 

Edit: Disclaimer: *Not unless you allow the enemy to by the way of distrust or unbelieve.

Investment in Church series...

Q: but some of them ask to give everything in your wallet ( i called it "challenge" ... )
A: again, it's investment opportunity. If you are not ready, then it's fine.

But for some ppl (like me) i wait for it and give it immediately. Reasons:
1. 1st i always have some money in ATM so throwing all my money in wallet never gonna kill me.

2. We always has money in ATM, but do we have oppoftunity to have preacher to throw challenge like that ?

3. I don't loan for my car, and i rent in malaysia (yeah... cuz i don't have RM2 million so no choice... ).

4. I strive to life under strict budget control. After tithe, i maintain my lifestyle far below everybody who earns as big as me. Meaning business man like me use expensive things, but i also use expensive things, but only after i allocate. meaning, if i want to buy RM3000 iphone 6 handphone, instead of credit card loan RM300 with interest, i save RM300 every month and get that RM3000 phone next year, which hopefully iphone6 already lower rate or iphone 7 already entered market by 2016

5. How to get RM 2 mil house ? you cannot save RM2000 every month and expect after 1000 months (90 years approx) try to buy a house in malaysia.

therefore my pray is simple : GOD, I want to buy RM 2 mil house in malaysia. I have today only RM2000 budget. So please accept my seed because i need to sow in your kingdom, and i do expect some return. Kindly don't consider this as i am abusing GOD to get RM 2 mil house. I just try to use the reap / sow law... so i can get what i want.. an RM 2 mil house. In Jesus name i pray...

then wait for GOD's reply. Now because i have a good relationship and healthy one with ABBA father... i think you know lah ya how much i have to invest in GOD's kingdom to get RM 2 mil house

---

Those 5 points are simply guidelines and illustrative in nature.

again, ask HS... he will disclose a lot of things in much detail. if need bible verses, can google typical bible verse that prosperity gospel used hehehheeh.... or ask me i will post next time

A must read for everyone

http://www.faithit.com/dear-church-heres-w...3rRl3w.facebook

Your LV and Guchi?  Can't really understand what's in it.

sure this is not in indonesia.

In indonesia church, speaking in tongue, works. why, cuz people, people... not only you and me... believe by GOD's grace we can do miracle.

remember i have demonstrated that i am an overcomer and all of you nailed me ? still today i am an overcomer. even better. cuz my environment is not LOWYAT.net forum. I have my own, and it's full of people that have same belief like me. My overall are increasing day  by day...

i am telling you... all of you that nail me, if you don't get out from your environment, you cannot made miracle.

It is not enough to have faith... you need to get out from your environment. Leave traditional church that has mentality that hates my teaching... go, team up with somebody that believe by GOD's grace still can do miracle

if you are john mc arthur fans than sure lah don't bother about doing investment in Church.

John mc arthur does not believe investment in church. Offering yes, investment no.

Offering means give with no intent for return
investment means give with intent for return...

now back to you.
1. Do you believe GOD wants you to invest in his kingdom (yes / no)
2. Do you believe your environment / church / family / fren believe in investment in Church financially, not only offering (yes / no)

for my theory to work, both has to be yes, or else don't do it....

i try doing investment and my traditional churches "curses" me bribing GOD... do you know what happen... my investment looks dead one. No return, no nothing... only when i manage to go to churches and community and the whole congregation agree in prayer about investment in GOD's kingdom, then the engine start rolling...

check your church teaching. don't get fooled.

My expat friend rental is RM6k at Jln Raja Chulan.