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 An Investor’s Review on the Unit Trust Investment, Unit Trust Investor is unprotected!

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TSMaleficient
post Oct 29 2014, 01:58 PM

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QUOTE(kmunz @ Oct 28 2014, 11:46 AM)
Thats the problem. You thought ppl sell you BMW but it is actually a proton. Did the fund tell you it is BMW? it is the sales person telling you is BMW.
The investment mechanism has no problem. Problem is the sales person and you. doh.gif
Sales person will tell you all the pros and put aside the cons (btw which sales person not like this?). How many percentage of sales person who earn commission for a living will tell you the cons?Be smart, do a research and dig out the cons yourself and determine if it suits your risk appetite. Nowadays is internet era, you are provided with all kind of platform to dig information.

Anyway, I see alot of experience investor are trying to give you advise in fund invesment but seems you are ignorant. If thats the case, my advise is for you to keep your money under the pillow and pray inflation stagnant.  smile.gif
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Sales pitch is the most untrusted, all others like prospectus, fund fact sheet, past history, fun manager performance also cannot be trusted!

So, what trusted UT information that we can use for homework? pls name it. Otherwise, jux change the UT name to UNOT TRUST so that people is not misled! rclxub.gif
TSMaleficient
post Oct 29 2014, 02:01 PM

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QUOTE(OneBuck @ Oct 29 2014, 10:41 AM)
What about this article..?

Any sifu can comment....
What funds would not like you to know

ARE funds (mutual/unit trust/actively managed funds) the way to go to invest for the long term? There are numerous glossy and enticing advertisements by funds trumpeting excellent returns, but at the same time warning that past performance is no guarantee for future performance.

In the US, more than US$10 trillion is held by nearly 10,000 mutual funds. If you take out money market funds and bond funds, about US$5 trillion is in stocks. Is funds investing safe and does it provide superior returns (relative to the relevant benchmark indices)?

Majority does not beat benchmark indices

Did your fund portfolio beat the benchmark? Congratulations, for you are in the minority. In the book, Wall Street Versus America by Gary Weiss (formerly with Business Week), he said “if you had shares in an equity mutual fund on January 1, 1984, just as the bull market was taking off, and held on to it until December 31, 2003, the chances are better than 90% that your fund failed even to match the performance of S&P 500 stock index”.

Can you imagine – 90%? Even the betting tables at Genting Highlands offer better odds. If you are going to put your money to work by investment pros, you should expect superior performance. Isn't it difficult to believe that only 20% of funds have managed to beat the benchmark?

The fees charged put most funds on the back foot. Actively managed funds usually incur trading costs – front- and back-end loads, advisory fees, advertising campaigns, and commissions payable to sales and distribution channels. We are not even talking taxes yet. The fees accruing to unit trust sales forces in Malaysia is a good example, hence it is very difficult to locate funds that actually provide superior returns from the personal EPF investing scheme.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


http://malaysiafinance.blogspot.com/2008_02_01_archive.html
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In Malaysia, we also have this statistic. Don't miss out! rclxms.gif

A Malay daily newspaper dated 6th August 2006 reported that 80% of the EPF members who withdrew from their EPF savings to invest in unit trusts had suffered losses totaling RM600 million. There was also a report in www.thestar.com.my way back in Aug 8, 2006 that reads: “The Government, alarmed over the more than half billion ringgit losses reported from investments in unit trusts involving Employees Provident Fund (EPF) contributors, has directed the EPF to impose stricter conditions on such investments.”

max_cavalera
post Nov 7 2014, 10:18 AM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Oct 24 2014, 11:59 AM)
So? whistling.gif

ALL unit trust investors who does his homework and reads the prospectus know that.

RISK.

U want profit, u take risks.

Period.
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Seems like a 2nd dreamer has just been born... yawn.gif

Do maleficient lose half if his life savings in a unit trust, stocks or gold investment like dreamer do?

Because both of them are acting on a same remorse behavior...likea real life experience trauma and creating a new personal outlook belief and try to impose it to the whole world....

Dreamer only believes in public bank...hes sole insanity driver is based on public bank performance...

As i know of any markets and comanies have its boom n bust cycle....what happen to dreamer later if eventually public bank goes bust?

This post has been edited by max_cavalera: Nov 7 2014, 10:19 AM
SUSPink Spider
post Nov 7 2014, 11:22 AM

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QUOTE(max_cavalera @ Nov 7 2014, 10:18 AM)
Seems like a 2nd dreamer has just been born... yawn.gif

Do maleficient lose half if his life savings in a unit trust, stocks or gold investment like dreamer do?

Because both of them are acting on a same remorse behavior...likea real life experience trauma and creating a new personal outlook belief and try to impose it to the whole world....

Dreamer only believes in public bank...hes sole insanity driver is based on public bank performance...

As i know of any markets and comanies have its boom n bust cycle....what happen to dreamer later if eventually public bank goes bust?
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he will go berserk and take an axe go chop PBB ATM machines laugh.gif
rapple
post Nov 7 2014, 11:43 AM

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QUOTE(Maleficient @ Oct 29 2014, 02:01 PM)
In Malaysia, we also have this statistic. Don't miss out! rclxms.gif

A Malay daily newspaper dated 6th August 2006 reported that 80% of the EPF members who withdrew from their EPF savings to invest in unit trusts had suffered losses totaling RM600 million. There was also a report in www.thestar.com.my way back in Aug 8, 2006 that reads: “The Government, alarmed over the more than half billion ringgit losses reported from investments in unit trusts involving Employees Provident Fund (EPF) contributors, has directed the EPF to impose stricter conditions on such investments.”
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woohoo ~! i must be the lucky unit trust investor bcoz i'm making an average return of 7 to 8%.

And you know what TS, after the newspaper report what happen next? ermm.. NOTHING happens.. Did they verified on the 600m losses? No.

A newspaper report doesn't make it becomes a Statistic.


ZH888
post Nov 7 2014, 12:10 PM

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i bet TS invested in GOLD fund, Resources Fund other than that i think most of the UT funds in long term (10 yrs) even worst one would have make profit... LOL

So tell us, AmPrecious Metals or RHB-OSK Gold & General Fund ? =P
xuzen
post Nov 7 2014, 01:19 PM

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QUOTE(rapple @ Nov 7 2014, 11:43 AM)
woohoo ~! i must be the lucky unit trust investor bcoz i'm making an average return of 7 to 8%.

And you know what TS, after the newspaper report what happen next? ermm.. NOTHING happens.. Did they verified on the 600m losses? No.

A newspaper report doesn't make it becomes a Statistic.
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That is because TS did not invest in Lee Sook Yee wub.gif fund or Chen Fan Fai's fund mah!

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xuzen
post Nov 7 2014, 01:23 PM

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QUOTE(OneBuck @ Oct 29 2014, 10:41 AM)
What about this article..?

Any sifu can comment....
What funds would not like you to know

ARE funds (mutual/unit trust/actively managed funds) the way to go to invest for the long term? There are numerous glossy and enticing advertisements by funds trumpeting excellent returns, but at the same time warning that past performance is no guarantee for future performance.

In the US, more than US$10 trillion is held by nearly 10,000 mutual funds. If you take out money market funds and bond funds, about US$5 trillion is in stocks. Is funds investing safe and does it provide superior returns (relative to the relevant benchmark indices)?

Majority does not beat benchmark indices

Did your fund portfolio beat the benchmark? Congratulations, for you are in the minority. In the book, Wall Street Versus America by Gary Weiss (formerly with Business Week), he said “if you had shares in an equity mutual fund on January 1, 1984, just as the bull market was taking off, and held on to it until December 31, 2003, the chances are better than 90% that your fund failed even to match the performance of S&P 500 stock index”.

Can you imagine – 90%? Even the betting tables at Genting Highlands offer better odds. If you are going to put your money to work by investment pros, you should expect superior performance. Isn't it difficult to believe that only 20% of funds have managed to beat the benchmark?

The fees charged put most funds on the back foot. Actively managed funds usually incur trading costs – front- and back-end loads, advisory fees, advertising campaigns, and commissions payable to sales and distribution channels. We are not even talking taxes yet. The fees accruing to unit trust sales forces in Malaysia is a good example, hence it is very difficult to locate funds that actually provide superior returns from the personal EPF investing scheme.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


http://malaysiafinance.blogspot.com/2008_02_01_archive.html
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This poster is only regurgitating statistic culled from the US. Lot's of books and article have been written on this topic and it is usually comparing mutual fund (US mkt) and ETFs.

However, in Bolehland, our local fund manager are so Boleh! they regularly beat the index/benchmark and continuously for multiple years....

So, take the stats from US with a pinch of salt... not all stats are transferable.

If unit trust in Bolehland is like US, you think I still invest in it ar? Long long time already run liao lor....

Xuzen
oneeleven
post Nov 8 2014, 12:49 AM

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Genuine question about an old comment by PS:

"E.g. a fund that laid down in its mandate that it's supposed to be at least 75% invested in equities must do it at all times, while a fund that has an unrestricted mandate e.g. can go 100% cash can do it anytime the fund manager sees fit to do so."

Do many funds state such unrestricted mandates? Any examples off-hand?


SUSPink Spider
post Nov 8 2014, 01:40 AM

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QUOTE(oneeleven @ Nov 8 2014, 12:49 AM)
Genuine question about an old comment by PS:

"E.g. a fund that laid down in its mandate that it's supposed to be at least 75% invested in equities must do it at all times, while a fund that has an unrestricted mandate e.g. can go 100% cash can do it anytime the fund manager sees fit to do so."

Do many funds state such unrestricted mandates?  Any examples off-hand?
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fund mandate is like the memorandum and articles of a company - the directors dictate it. "u tak suka, u keluar"

hence the importance of reading the fund prospectus.
oneeleven
post Nov 8 2014, 06:54 PM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Nov 8 2014, 01:40 AM)
fund mandate is like the memorandum and articles of a company - the directors dictate it. "u tak suka, u keluar"

hence the importance of reading the fund prospectus.
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Yeah ok point taken but are there instances of it happening, maybe a good thing, which funds, can anyone name some?
SUSyklooi
post Nov 8 2014, 07:10 PM

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QUOTE(oneeleven @ Nov 8 2014, 06:54 PM)
Yeah ok point taken but are there instances of it happening, maybe a good thing, which funds, can anyone name some?
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hmm.gif is the attached is what u seek? this is jus an example I found from the prospectus of Kenanga funds...

http://www.fundsupermart.com.my/main/admin...ctusMYKNGGF.pdf


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oneeleven
post Nov 8 2014, 09:29 PM

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QUOTE(yklooi @ Nov 8 2014, 07:10 PM)
hmm.gif is the attached is what u seek? this is jus an example I found from the prospectus of Kenanga funds...

http://www.fundsupermart.com.my/main/admin...ctusMYKNGGF.pdf
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No not exactly, sort of opposite what I'm asking!
Which funds will permit 100% parking in money market if manager so wishes?
SUSyklooi
post Nov 9 2014, 01:16 AM

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QUOTE(oneeleven @ Nov 8 2014, 09:29 PM)
No not exactly, sort of opposite what I'm asking!
Which funds will permit 100% parking in money market if manager so wishes?
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OK...just thought that is what you are looking for....
hmm.gif come to think of it.....I am paying the FM > 2% pa in mgmt fees for eq funds....I definitely would not like it if he is permitted to park 100% in money mkt....if he so wishes.
if I wanted the FM be allowed to park 100% in mm...I would go for CMF or mm funds or FI funds...the annual mgmt. is much lesser.

ex...RHBOSK Asian total returns got this

This post has been edited by yklooi: Nov 9 2014, 01:34 AM


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oneeleven
post Nov 9 2014, 09:27 AM

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Yes, is this very commonly permitted, or do I have to search the funds to find ones that permit it?

This post has been edited by oneeleven: Nov 9 2014, 09:31 AM
SUSyklooi
post Nov 9 2014, 11:27 AM

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QUOTE(oneeleven @ Nov 9 2014, 09:27 AM)
Yes, is this very commonly permitted, or do I have to search the funds to find ones that permit it?
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oh yes, pls do. appreciate if posted here for info too.
SUSPink Spider
post Nov 9 2014, 12:49 PM

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QUOTE(oneeleven @ Nov 9 2014, 09:27 AM)
Yes, is this very commonly permitted, or do I have to search the funds to find ones that permit it?
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In my opinion, you wouldn't want such funds.

History have proven that remain invested (in quality stocks, of course) is more rewarding than trying to time the market, because even professionals cannot do it with high precision most of the times.

Raising cash levels at peak of bull on expectation of a crash or when there are no good stocks to pick is ok, but I don't agree on going 100% cash (or even >50% cash).

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