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 An Investor’s Review on the Unit Trust Investment, Unit Trust Investor is unprotected!

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TSMaleficient
post Oct 24 2014, 10:55 AM, updated 12y ago

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If you are thinking of investing your hard earn money in the unit trust fund, please read my review carefully and make wise judgment:

1) The bank and fund manager shall have no liability for any loss resulting from the performance of the investment. This means that the investors are not only greatly exposed to the market risk, but also the risk of poor fund management. Just ask yourself a simple question, will you do a good job if you do not have to take any responsibility for your job performance?

2) The bank and fund manager shall have no obligation to achieve the fund objectives as stated in the prospectus. A typical fund objective is to achieve capital growth in the specific period. If the fund fails to achieve capital growth after the specific period, this is not tantamount to a breach of contract or false and misleading fund objective. You ought to scold the unforeseen market sentiment for capital loss and blame yourself for trusting the information in the prospectus.

3) The bank will be under no liability whatsoever in respect of any information or recommendation rendered by any of its employees. Past performance is not a guarantee for future performance. In that case, you should not buy a fund based on the sales talk or past history but seek genuine advice from other unit trust investors. They are not expert but they tell you the true experiences without an aim for commission.

4) I bought a number of different funds from UxB since 10 years ago. You will be shocked on how “little” my investment grew throughout the period. For the funds that performed, the percentage of growth was far less than the fixed deposit interest rate while for the bad fund, I should appreciate that it only wiped out half of my capital instead of all. The report in the newspapers below showed concrete fact for your kind reference.

A Malay daily newspaper dated 6th August 2006 reported that 80% of the EPF members who withdrew from their EPF savings to invest in unit trusts had suffered losses totaling RM600 million. There was also a report in www.thestar.com.my way back in Aug 8, 2006 that reads: “The Government, alarmed over the more than half billion ringgit losses reported from investments in unit trusts involving Employees Provident Fund (EPF) contributors, has directed the EPF to impose stricter conditions on such investments.”

5) EPF and PNB also help to manage the people and investor’s money through various investments. We do not pay them a single cent and yet their performances are decent, consistent and guarantee. Syabas! On the other hand, we pay an expensive fund management fee in the unit trust investment but the performance is far below expectation and worse than the formers. Now, you should be able to see clearly who really cares for our investment and who just takes our money for granted and own benefit.

As a conclusion, the absent of law to protect unit trust investor makes us easily exploited and victimized. We are investing at our very own high risk. Do make your smart investment decision or you will be regret for life.

TSMaleficient
post Oct 25 2014, 09:26 AM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Oct 24 2014, 11:37 AM)
Another view to TS:
1. I've been investing in mutual funds since 1995+/-

2. My returns have been:
a. up to net profit 28%pa+ (yes, U read that right, CAGR) for > 5 years' held funds in early 2008 for PRU SmallCap
b. up to net profit 60%+ less than 1yr (bought 2009 Apr 21 and sold 2009 Nov 03) for PubMut PFEPRF
c. a low of net loss -30%pa+/- during crashes for newly bought units in Dec 2007 - Mar 2008, crashed late 2008
d. a low of 10%+/-pa returns (U read right, NO negative but positive 10%pa+/-) for my oldest held fund during a crash eg. Dec 2008

3. Thus, if one wants something carved in stone - please deposit in FD and ensure that each bank (not account) has only up to RM250K of your money as it is only insured up to that amount per customer per bank (not a/c)

4. If one wants something better - trade or invest (there is a difference) yourself and save on the service charges.

5. So... what other options / solutions ar?
other than b*tch*ng about it?
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You are just lucky, like the winner who strikes 4D number, how many % of people can be so lucky?
TSMaleficient
post Oct 25 2014, 09:39 AM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Oct 24 2014, 12:11 PM)
i smell a Geneva Gold or Insurance "investment" coming...  brows.gif
newbie, new post... with illogical conclusion / requirements

if there is a promise to make one $, guaranteed... U better run far & fast AWAY from the offeror...
or lay the smack-down  laugh.gif
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I am not any agents who wants to earn commission like you...

I learned a painful lesson in unit trust investment. Hope that by sharing my experiences, all first time future investors can become smarter and more cautious when investing in unit trust. We are not protected, but we are also not a silent sick cat.

Learn to perform in the fund before learning to sell the fund. Be prepared to accept criticism if you are selling an expensive rubbish fund! Don't just sell for your own benefit.

So, which UT company are you representing?
TSMaleficient
post Oct 25 2014, 09:40 AM

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QUOTE(wil-i-am @ Oct 24 2014, 10:57 PM)
Mind to share which UT co?
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you owe me bank
TSMaleficient
post Oct 25 2014, 09:43 AM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Oct 24 2014, 04:13 PM)
Just joined the forum today

Open a thread blasting unit trusts

And then disappear

whistling.gif
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I m jux too busy posting my review in other forum, blog, etc...
TSMaleficient
post Oct 26 2014, 11:27 AM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Oct 25 2014, 06:28 PM)
Then nothing is for noobies other than guaranteed & insured stuff like FD.

My bro / sis - are there still people out there thinking they can GET SOMETHING for nothing?
Not even taking the effort in understanding a tool?
Are they not even literate? or it's just that they are stupid & trust blindly?
OR... worse.. lazy and prefer to think about what's for lunch/dinner?
That is fine & dandy - if one were to admit responsibility for self-inflicted pains, then learn from it.
Blaming is so easy right? But what does it solve - how can we get better from it?

Knowledge in the tool is NOT the same as knowledge in investing.
I know how a hammer works and why i'll use it.
Doesn't mean i'll be a great carpenter or a great handy-man, right?
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We are not dealing with a brainless tool like hammer, don't be narrow minded. Our tool here is a smart fund manager/bank that claims himself to be an expert with professional knowledge in managing investor's fund. If you happened to buy a defective car after careful research, do you blame yourself for being dummy or the car manufacturer for bad quality?

You are blaming that the 80% of EPF members who lose their money in unit trust is self inflicted due to their laziness in doing research and lack of UT knowledge. Does it make sense that all the 80% of EPF members blindly invest their hard earn money as they are iliterate and don't care about their hard earn money? People with logical thinking would think the other way, that is 80% of our Unit Trust funds in the market is crap and managed by inferior fund managers who are lazy to do proper research with bad strategy and wrong judgement. That's why we fall into this trap easily.

Why u want to invest in UT? Because you are lacking of stock industry knowledge and have no time to properly manage your money. So, to what extent should an investor do their research? How much is proper and enough? If we are able to do extensive research and become knowledgeable in the stock market and have time to monitor the stock market ourselves, then we should fire all the fund managers and save the fund management fee. This is a great idea!

We can read through as many brochures or prospectus or past performance history as we can, but how reliable and how realistic are these information that are usually attractive and promising? The fund house has no liability on the information given and no obligation to achieve the fund objective as stated in the prospectus! When you confront the fund house on why the fund performance deviates from its fund objective, they just put the blame on the market sentiment as a powerful excuse. They don't blame themselves for poor fund management. That's why investors are so vulnerable, because the law only protects the bank.

This is human nature. When you are weak, people take great advantage on you and your money. If I am a fund manager, I also tends to think this way: I earn my fat salary regardless of my performance, I am fully protected legally, I don't have to bear investor's losses, why headache so much doing research for other money, just simply choose a stocklah, if anything go wrong, just blame the stock market trend lor.

Look yourself in the mirror before using the word stupid. Stop c@cking if you can't say any good word!





TSMaleficient
post Oct 26 2014, 07:17 PM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Oct 26 2014, 12:28 PM)
FYI, EPF also appoint many of those so-called rotten, cheating fund managers to manage EPF's investments whistling.gif
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u
r
Yes, they may be rotten, but they show consistent result for their performance. Better than some craps who disguise and self-claim themselves as professional to con people money and then "lazy" to perform.
TSMaleficient
post Oct 26 2014, 07:24 PM

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QUOTE(magika @ Oct 26 2014, 12:30 PM)
I would think that the issue at hand is overselling of UT which misrepresented the risk involved. Dwell on the issues at hand rather then labelled others for their losses. Dont sit snugly with your hands crossed, sniggering to yourself, give proactive solution or explaination acceptable to all. Some of those losers are succesful men in their own right.  biggrin.gif
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Thank you magika for your valuable input. I really appreciate it.
TSMaleficient
post Oct 26 2014, 07:33 PM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Oct 26 2014, 04:59 PM)
Notice a pattern?
Ppl that accusses others of not offering options/solutions are those that seems blind OR they themselves dont offer any.

Oh well, time's wasting enough on garbage that can't be changed.
Moving on
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It's also easy to bark for no valid reason.
TSMaleficient
post Oct 26 2014, 07:36 PM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Oct 26 2014, 12:44 PM)
Yes. Money has no morality.

Don't care how the money is made,  moral men doesn't get rich tongue.gif

Conscience? Use the dirty money do more charitable work lo thumbup.gif

If u really think the government is rotten, dare dare go overthrow it. Not dare? Migrate or just live within the systems.
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"catch me if you can"? sound interesting! can elaborate more?
TSMaleficient
post Oct 27 2014, 11:49 AM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Oct 26 2014, 08:23 PM)
^
The one who is really barking for no valid reason here

The people whom u label as professional cons ARE ALSO THE ONES WHOM EPF APPOINT AS EXTERNAL INVESTMENT MANAGERS.

Your agents, your bank officers, they are only SELLERS, SELLERS, SELLERS, SELLERS; sellers don't manage the unit trust funds!

Just like when u buy a car, and it's faulty, u go to the manufacturer, u don't go pour red paint on the salesman's house front door shakehead.gif

U really got me doh.gif doh.gif doh.gif
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OMG.... my fund is managed by EPF "school drop out"! No wonder I lost so much money, no wonder the performance is so sxxk, no wonder we have 80% of craps in the market .... cry.gif cry.gif ... if I were to know earlier, I won't invest at all ..... cry.gif cry.gif

I don't intend to humiliate school drop out. Some of them are really successful like Bill Gate, but the percentage is small.

Since knowing the fact, someone still actively promote UT, fun supermarket, etc... Now I got it, this is one way immoral man becomes rich.
TSMaleficient
post Oct 27 2014, 12:56 PM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Oct 27 2014, 12:04 PM)
TS, why don't u tell us, who u really are and what is your intention of opening this thread...

Stop giving us stomach ache already whistling.gif
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What is TS? Is that my member's name?

I blame UT because the fund manager causes me to lose money. I don't agree that this is solely investor's self inflicted because they are lazy to do research. If an ordinary investor who loses money is to be blamed harshly because they are inexperienced and choose the wrong UT fund, then what about the well versed experienced UT professionals that pick the wrong stock for investor after doing extensive research? God damm it! Fxxking idxxt! Bxxtxxd!@#$&*@## vmad.gif mad.gif .... oops... gentleman don't use foul language.

You also know how to saylah when your car is faulty you should complain to the car manufacturer. Do you blame yourself for the faulty car?

No matter how smart and how hardworking the UT investor is also useless if we are given UT funds that are defective, faulty and misleading. The bank "007" and spokesman should solve the root cause first before pointing their finger on investor's ignorance.

If u watch the movie maleficent, u should be able to guess my intention!
TSMaleficient
post Oct 27 2014, 01:23 PM

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QUOTE(kmunz @ Oct 27 2014, 12:35 PM)
time wasting to talk to ppl who wanted to get rich but does not wanted to put extra effort to get information. Even information feeded to them, they will still stick to their point of view (Chinese call this lembu. Tunjuk pun tak faham)
Argument will never end.
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Getting info is easy especially the con and crap one are everywhere, but how reliable and how realistic???
Make empty promise (in the prospectus ) and sweet sales talk are also easy but never use brain to excel in the performance, jux know how to blame investor lembu!
What a small brain!
TSMaleficient
post Oct 27 2014, 06:36 PM

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QUOTE(kmunz @ Oct 27 2014, 02:19 PM)
ur topic named "review on the unit trust investment" instead of "review on unit trust sales person". Instead of blaming the investing mechinery, you should either change to yr topic or blame why you trust sales people so easily?
If a person selling you a 1000cc car and tell you that the car have the same hp as 2000cc car will you believe it and straight away put deposit? If you believe it then gong xi fa chai  rclxms.gif
I believe prudent people will do all kind of research before believing what other people said.
"Money wont come to you without any effort unless is your father's money"  tongue.gif
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no, it's the other way round, they sell me BMW but the quality is worse than proton.
TSMaleficient
post Oct 27 2014, 06:48 PM

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QUOTE(xuzen @ Oct 27 2014, 02:20 PM)
TS is acronym for Thread Starter can also mean Terribly Stupid is certain scenarios.

Dear Thread Starter,

Being whiny is not helping you look very smart in this forum. How about you let us know which fund you have invested in that made you lose money. Let us know also when you invested and when you sold. With tangible numbers we can all make an objective assessment, rather than emotional one.

Want? Game on? Or you prefer to discuss about Geneva, pegasus, or some skim cepat kaya?

Xuzen
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Batman is coming to catch Joker! I once admire u so much wub.gif but now we are enemy. Oh no... I am supposed to be a sexy witch. U looks so handsome Batman! Can you rescue Maleficent? The evil old cat wants to kill me... icon_question.gif

If I am smart I won't end up losing money in UT. To stop people from whining, then put effort to perform in the fund lah so that investor has no chance at all to complain on u. What we want is result, result, result!!! and not jux selling, selling, selling.




TSMaleficient
post Oct 27 2014, 07:02 PM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Oct 27 2014, 02:24 PM)
Prospectus NEVER MAKE PROMISES.

It's obvious u don't know what are u talking about.

Even sales brochures don't make promises, it merely lays out historical and/or POTENTIAL returns. U know your English? Know what is the meaning of the word "potential"? And any investors with COMMON SENSE should know that history may not necessarily repeat in the future.

What else u have? Come...throw it out whistling.gif

And, if your UT agent REALLY promised u X% of returns, PROVE IT, report him/her to Securities Commission/Bank Negara or even the UT company. I can guarantee that u can get back your dues.

Otherwise, go die, REALLY, I mean it.
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The fox tail is coming out...

Why u bother so much on my whining? Why everyone get crazy when I hammer on their bad fund performance? Does my whining affect ur biz? Or u r once the fxxkxxg fun manager that played on investor's money? Your friend who barks a lot is smarter than u for leaving soon...

Remember, don't play play on other people money! U r lucky because most of the fund are bought by C that are usually timid and lazy to complain. If M and I, long time ago all UT co. have been burned down.

The conman wants to kill me because I reveal his biz secret and pour salt on his wound.... sweat.gif

Catch me if u can !! cool2.gif

If I die, u will be dragged to hell for abetting!! whistling.gif whistling.gif
TSMaleficient
post Oct 28 2014, 10:04 AM

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QUOTE(NeN51 @ Oct 27 2014, 08:48 PM)
good find!  rclxms.gif  rclxms.gif

if TS cant take any advice/criticism then u shouldnt post anything in this forum at all. it's a free speech world in here
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Yes, u r right! So I can talk anything I like (like the bank who has no liability in sales talk/information given).

This thread is actually meant for educating naive investors but ends up wasting time arguing with UT craps.

Why? Because terlalu banyak UT craps yang tidak tahu membalas budi pelabur mereka. Here, u can see that UT craps (terribly stupid) that fails to perform in the fund shouts louder than the investor and keeps slapping investor's face (dummy) on their own poor performance. So what is the different between terribly stupid and dummy? They are the same, it's jux a matter of turtle laughs at tortoise.

Now, the dummy has a challenge for u!! What about we pay u 50% of our profit and u also share 50% of investor losses? Does it sound fair to both UT and investor? This is called performance based hard reward + hard punishment. (I think the UT craps are going to throw me hand grenade!) Based on the current standard(quality) of UT performance with 80% craps and 20% good, all the UT co already gone bankrupt long time ago if this performance scheme was implemented. If u r still survive, u r indeed terribly smart!!

The fun manager who makes fun of dummy investor $$$ has no more fun!! na...na..na... na.. whistling.gif whistling.gif




TSMaleficient
post Oct 28 2014, 10:09 AM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Oct 27 2014, 07:45 PM)
LOL TS is having schizophrenia now

ok la I surrender biggrin.gif
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It is really good to be mentally disorder thumbup.gif , because I don't need to bear any liability for my action like the bank!!! rclxm9.gif rclxm9.gif rclxm9.gif

TSMaleficient
post Oct 29 2014, 01:58 PM

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QUOTE(kmunz @ Oct 28 2014, 11:46 AM)
Thats the problem. You thought ppl sell you BMW but it is actually a proton. Did the fund tell you it is BMW? it is the sales person telling you is BMW.
The investment mechanism has no problem. Problem is the sales person and you. doh.gif
Sales person will tell you all the pros and put aside the cons (btw which sales person not like this?). How many percentage of sales person who earn commission for a living will tell you the cons?Be smart, do a research and dig out the cons yourself and determine if it suits your risk appetite. Nowadays is internet era, you are provided with all kind of platform to dig information.

Anyway, I see alot of experience investor are trying to give you advise in fund invesment but seems you are ignorant. If thats the case, my advise is for you to keep your money under the pillow and pray inflation stagnant.  smile.gif
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Sales pitch is the most untrusted, all others like prospectus, fund fact sheet, past history, fun manager performance also cannot be trusted!

So, what trusted UT information that we can use for homework? pls name it. Otherwise, jux change the UT name to UNOT TRUST so that people is not misled! rclxub.gif
TSMaleficient
post Oct 29 2014, 02:01 PM

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QUOTE(OneBuck @ Oct 29 2014, 10:41 AM)
What about this article..?

Any sifu can comment....
What funds would not like you to know

ARE funds (mutual/unit trust/actively managed funds) the way to go to invest for the long term? There are numerous glossy and enticing advertisements by funds trumpeting excellent returns, but at the same time warning that past performance is no guarantee for future performance.

In the US, more than US$10 trillion is held by nearly 10,000 mutual funds. If you take out money market funds and bond funds, about US$5 trillion is in stocks. Is funds investing safe and does it provide superior returns (relative to the relevant benchmark indices)?

Majority does not beat benchmark indices

Did your fund portfolio beat the benchmark? Congratulations, for you are in the minority. In the book, Wall Street Versus America by Gary Weiss (formerly with Business Week), he said “if you had shares in an equity mutual fund on January 1, 1984, just as the bull market was taking off, and held on to it until December 31, 2003, the chances are better than 90% that your fund failed even to match the performance of S&P 500 stock index”.

Can you imagine – 90%? Even the betting tables at Genting Highlands offer better odds. If you are going to put your money to work by investment pros, you should expect superior performance. Isn't it difficult to believe that only 20% of funds have managed to beat the benchmark?

The fees charged put most funds on the back foot. Actively managed funds usually incur trading costs – front- and back-end loads, advisory fees, advertising campaigns, and commissions payable to sales and distribution channels. We are not even talking taxes yet. The fees accruing to unit trust sales forces in Malaysia is a good example, hence it is very difficult to locate funds that actually provide superior returns from the personal EPF investing scheme.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


http://malaysiafinance.blogspot.com/2008_02_01_archive.html
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In Malaysia, we also have this statistic. Don't miss out! rclxms.gif

A Malay daily newspaper dated 6th August 2006 reported that 80% of the EPF members who withdrew from their EPF savings to invest in unit trusts had suffered losses totaling RM600 million. There was also a report in www.thestar.com.my way back in Aug 8, 2006 that reads: “The Government, alarmed over the more than half billion ringgit losses reported from investments in unit trusts involving Employees Provident Fund (EPF) contributors, has directed the EPF to impose stricter conditions on such investments.”


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