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14-9-2015
post Oct 9 2014, 08:30 PM

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Treasure in Heaven

By Ron and Nathele Graham

“For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also” (Matthew 6:21).

We hear a lot of talk these days about wars and rumors of war, strong earthquakes everywhere, famine, pestilence, and more. Obviously we are in the last days and the Rapture is on the near horizon. There are many commentaries written about these end days and websites abound on the subject; some people can hardly wait for the Rapture but others give prophecy little attention. Whether you are one eagerly awaiting the Rapture or are not interested in prophecy at all you need to ask yourself where your treasure is.

Believers and non-believers alike have lived on planet Earth for the last six thousand years or so and this has been the only home we’ve known. We work to buy a home, a car, education, etc., but where exactly is our treasure? Good or bad, happy or sad, angry or glad this world is where we have grown and flourished and we are used to the idea of working for our retirement or to put food on the table.

As Christians we need to be sure that our own efforts to gather treasures on earth don’t get in the way of our devotion to our God and Savior, Jesus Christ. Our treasure needs to be in heaven, not on earth. Believers should not look to the earthly treasure of this world for assurance. It is temporary and will one day blow away. Our focus needs to be on heavenly treasures and eternal rewards.

“Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: for where your treasure is, there will your heart be also” (Matthew 6:19-21).

If we read, study, and believe the Scriptures we are fully aware of something greater existing on our horizon. God does not require believers to be poor, but He does want us to understand that earthly riches pale in comparison to heavenly treasure. Heaven is where eternal treasure is stored.

Most people would love to see the end to war, famine, hatred, all forms of evil, and have everything opposed to our well being eliminated from our environment. For Christians, one day that will be reality. All evil, malice, strife, hatred, envy, sickness, sadness, wealth and poverty will be completely forgotten the moment we enter that heavenly realm.

So why do so many Christians hold onto this earthly existence as though heaven doesn’t exist? Could it be that the riches of this life are so controlling that even believers can’t resist their attraction?

“But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition” (1 Timothy 6:9).

Pursuing worldly treasure can become more important to a person than pursuing heavenly treasure, and that is when we need to stop and take a good look at what our motivation in life is. Do we serve God and know that there awaits us many rewards in heaven, or do we serve the god of this world?

“No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon” (Matthew 6:24).

The word “mammon” comes from the Greek word “mamōnas” and simply means treasures and riches. Many Christians love to say “I’m living in the world but I’m not of the world.” Sadly we see that many Christians today have the same mindset as their worldly counterparts. Greed often controls the actions of Christians and non-Christians alike; so they aren’t just in the world but are also of the world and love mammon more than God.

“Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter” (James 5:5).

Christian, where is your treasure? Is it in this world serving mammon or have you stored your treasure in heaven by serving God?

How does one store treasure in heaven? It’s simple really. We serve Jesus. By putting Him first in our lives we will be awarded crowns. Not a royal crown but a crown of victory…a “stephanos.” One such crown is for temperance.

“And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible” (1 Corinthians 9:25).

In other words, control yourself. You will earn a crown in heaven if you control your urges to follow lusts of the flesh. Learn temperance in all matters and gain control over your flesh. Another crown is for those who win souls to Christ.

“Therefore, my brethren dearly beloved and longed for, my joy and crown, so stand fast in the Lord, my dearly beloved” (Philippians 4:1).

Not only did Paul see the believers in Philippi as his joy and “stephanos” but he encouraged them to stand fast in their faith. A crown of rejoicing is mentioned in 1 Thessalonians 2:19, a crown of righteousness is mentioned in 2 Timothy 4:8.

“Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him” (James 1:12).

Do you love Him? James says when you are tried and endure you will receive a crown of life. There is a crown for being faithful unto death described in Revelation 2:10. Peter encourages his readers to feed the flock of God. Not for riches on earth but to serve the Lord and to be an example to others.

“And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away” (1 Peter 5:4).

These crowns are the treasure in heaven that every Christian should strive for, but keep your motive pure…not for personal gain but for His glory.

“Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire” (1 Corinthians 3:12-15).

Move away from worldly lusts and serve Jesus and your reward will be “stephanos” of victory.

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God is not opposed to Christians having money to spare. There were wealthy people among Jesus’ earliest followers. Zacchaeus, Joseph of Arimathea, Lazarus, and Barnabas are just a few, but after they met Jesus they were not ruled by earthly wealth. In fact, after meeting Jesus, Zacchaeus, a publican, returned to the people four times what he had overcharged them. Barnabas sold his property to help support those first Christians who were turned out of the Temple.

Many Christians today have obtained great wealth and that is no sin, but earthly treasures are temporary in the life of the rich, and all Christians should use what they have to serve Jesus. Sin can and will take over when a person, Christian or non-Christian, becomes consumed with attaining wealth. The key word here is consumed.

“For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows” (1 Timothy 6:10).

Wealth can create a significant obstacle to the Kingdom of God, but it doesn’t have to.

“Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God” Matthew 19:23-24).

Rich or poor, ask yourself where your treasure is. I hope you see it as being in heaven.

If tomorrow comes and you‘ve lost everything you have, will you trust God to supply your needs? It’s easy to say I’ll trust God when we haven’t really lost anything, but what if you lose your home, your car, your bank account, your family, and all your earthly possessions? That sounds like Job’s situation, doesn’t it?

He was wealthy but lost all he had, including his health. What did Job do? He trusted God.

“For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth” (Job 19:25).

Even before God entered His creation to redeem us, Job knew Him and trusted Him. How did God reward Job? He was restored to health, he had more children, and his herds grew again. His real treasure was in heaven, and he knew it.

We hold onto worldly treasures way too tightly. We need things like food and shelter, but too often our wants cause us to seek after earthly treasure rather than treasures in heaven. I wonder how many Christians really look forward to His appearing or yearn to win souls for the Lord more than they want a new car. Remember Jesus’ admonition to the young wealthy man who wanted to gain eternal life?

“Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me” (Matthew 19:21).

That young man’s treasure was not in heaven.

“But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions” (Matthew 19:22).

His treasure was on earth and he was unable to see any benefit in knowing and following Jesus Christ.

Pride, greed, fear, covetousness, lust are ever recurring themes of trouble throughout the Bible. These sins take our focus off of Jesus and turn hearts to a materialistic world view. The more we have the more we want. Instead of seeing heaven as our real home where we will spend eternity with Jesus Christ, like the rich young man we become enamored with all we can accumulate and our treasure is in earthly desires.

Gaining more earthly treasure becomes our god. There is a direct correlation between where your treasure is and where your heart is. If you regard your material possessions as your treasure then your heart is set here on this earth, and that my friend is a far shot from heaven.

Where is your treasure, Christian? Is it in the First National Bank of Anywhere, or is it in heaven?

www.straitandnarrowministry.com
14-9-2015
post Oct 10 2014, 01:14 AM

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QUOTE(TankerGadget Store @ Oct 10 2014, 01:02 AM)
off topic ... i am opening a tuition center in klang next month and smooth process in applying for licenses, Majlis daerah and stuff ... but the thing is i need a name !! a name which is simple, got meaning in bible and also target market is primary school secondary school children (7-17yo). Can anyone suggest me names on bible or hebrew or meaningful one ? i have been translating and looking for christian company name. Sorry off topic but i really want god into this business.
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1) Pusat Tuisyen Genesis hmm.gif

2) Gate to Heaven (שער שמים ) Tuition Center laugh.gif

Hebrew word pronounced shaw-ar means gate
14-9-2015
post Oct 10 2014, 01:21 AM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Oct 10 2014, 01:19 AM)
Wisdom maybe? Because wisdom is much better than just getting good marks
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ur suggestion not bad also nod.gif

maybe Solomon tuition center or if must put malay name maybe become Pusat Tuisyen Suleiman hmm.gif
14-9-2015
post Oct 10 2014, 01:23 AM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Oct 10 2014, 12:36 AM)
I hope you do not think shouting O Jesus multiple times is normal.

There are just too many errors in Watchman Nee.

To me it's pretty obvious.

Again. If he was so confident of his theology, why is he avoiding me?

And then replying to me again at an opportunistic time. Do we play those kind of tricks as Christians?
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when they pray got do like this or not unsure.gif :


14-9-2015
post Oct 10 2014, 06:37 PM

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QUOTE(likimikuku @ Oct 10 2014, 05:59 PM)
u guys are funny
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we r not funny, we r just different.

Would u like to learn more about Jesus Christ mr hulk?
14-9-2015
post Oct 11 2014, 07:28 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 11 2014, 01:24 PM)
Yes, We really need to pray for Israel, for their sake and ours.
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14-9-2015
post Oct 13 2014, 06:02 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 13 2014, 11:56 AM)
Bible Devotions with UW

Work it out!
Today I'm here to put to rest of the abuse and misquote that many have preached using this verse saying you need to work out your Salvation.
Making it sound as if Salvation depends on your work.

If you read in context, many will usually "forget" to quote the next line which is:

For it is God who is at work in you.  What does this mean?

It simply means that If God has not given you Salvation, you have nothing to work with.
But if He has given you Salvation (which is) then you are secured and you have something to work with.
But what is this work that God's word is talking about and it says there very clearly "for it is God who is at work"

What is the work of God?

In the Hermeneutics  of bible interpretation, Bible must interpret Bible.

John 6:29 (NIV) - Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

So never let anyone preach obscure bible verse to cause you to doubt, making it sounds like it contradicts what God has promised to you Secured Eternal Life.

But UW what about the fear and trembling? Doesn't that seem to give the idea to be in fear that you'll lose your Salvation?

My Answer is this. Fear and Trembling is not always in negative connotation. It can be in good connotation.  I will give you 3 Bible incidents.

Jeremiah 33:9 (NIV) - Then this city will bring me renown, joy, praise and honor before all nations on earth that hear of all the good things I do for it; and they will be in awe and will tremble at the abundant prosperity and peace I provide for it.'

Some of the translation (KJV), used the word Fear instead of awe.

In 1 Corinthians 2:3; The Apostle Paul says: I came to you in weakness with great fear and trembling.
And What happened next? In verse 4 it says: and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,…
Fear and trembling because God is so good, the anointing of God caused Paul to be bold and courageous. Because if the context is really fearful in trembling, Paul would have stumbled and faltered, sweating in his speech...think about it.

One more verse

Luke 8:47 - Then the woman, seeing that she could not go unnoticed, came trembling and fell at his feet. In the presence of all the people, she told why she had touched him and how she had been instantly healed.

This woman was healed of her 12 years bleeding. If she's not awed by the power of God that actually works despite all her years of hoping in the physicians of her days. What else she has to tremble, knowing that She dared herself to be in public, in those days it's against the Law of God to be in public when you are unclean, that is breaking Leviticus Law. No, the fact that she dared herself shows that she couldn't care less about the law, it is the power of God, his goodness, his willingness to heal her that caused her trembled! Her Eyes must have open wide with surprise and was glad!

No Dear friends!

God has given you Salvation that no one can remove you out of it. It is God himself who secures its and guarantees it! It's such a powerful truth that our Lord is INDEED truly GOOD, that I'm in fear and trembles at his goodness!

God Bless.
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Being Saved is one thing. Keeping your Salvation & running the race til the end is another story!

That is why we need to work out our salvation with FEAR & TREMBLING sweat.gif

What happens to Christians/believers who after being saved but stil commit the following ( i just use sexual sin as an example ) :

- fornicate
- commit adultery
- enjoys pornography
- same sex partner

and continue living like the devil from Mon - Sat even though they believe in Jesus Christ? Will they go to heaven if they die unrepentant?

For, even the al-Kitab says the devil believes in Christ! That does not mean the devil is saved & will go to heaven!



A Christian WILL & MUST bear fruit in this life for the al-Kitab says,

Faith Without Works Is Dead James 2:14-26

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my[cool.gif works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[c] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[d] And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.





So let this be a warning : your spiritual condition CAN CHANGE after being saved.

There are plenty of verses in the al-Kitab warning against this falling away/back-sliding(very slack term). So pls, pls take heed :

1) If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, he will die for it. Ezek 33:18

2) "But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die. Ezek. 18:24

3) From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him. John 6:66

4) Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck 1 Tim 1:19

5) All unrighteousness is sin, but there is a sin not unto death 1 John 5:17

Sexual immorality is definitely 1 of the sins which lead to death! Death here means spiritual death!

6) If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: "A dog returns to its vomit," and, "A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud." 2 Pet 2:20-22

7) For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins. Hebr 10:26

8) They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away Luke 8:13


9), 10) & 11) are repeated warnings!

9) Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God? Be not deceived: Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor the effeminate (homosexuals), nor abusers of themselves with mankind.... 1 Corinthians 6:9

10) But people who are cowardly, unfaithful, detestable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars will find themselves in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur/brimstone. This is the second death." Rev 21:8

11) Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God Gal 5:19 - 21


Now before anyone lynches me, I JUST WANT TO BE CLEAR ON ONE THING........I'm not preaching legalism, neither am i preaching salvation by works.

I'll leave everyone here with a final verse, the al-Kitab(Berita Baik) says about those who sin after getting saved:

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9)

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14-9-2015
post Oct 13 2014, 08:27 PM

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Its indeed thought provoking isn't it?

I expected to ruffle some feathers & rock the boat a bit when i posted biggrin.gif I'm glad tat somebody responded. I would also like to knw others POV.

My take on this is :

On a personal level, i dun think we can fall into such deep sin, BUT this is only based on my personal experience.

I think we should all walk very close to God all our lives, always prayerful, be in the Word, don our armor, resist the devil, etc.

Based on personal observation though, have you seen Christians that backslid very, very badly?

Do u ask urself, how come those who were once strong in the Faith could veer off the narrow road so spectacularly?

Were they ever believers/saved in the 1st place to begin wif? ( most common defense used by many )

Do they have the holy spirit living in them? If so, do they harden their hearts to the prompting of the Holy Spirit every time?

If they continue sinning in this vein, would they still make it to heaven but only lose rewards? icon_question.gif

The above are extremely common questions which cross our minds.

Have you talked to Christian counselors before? Why don't you ask them about cases where druggies & gays who reverted to sin after getting 'saved' & have been counselled for 6 mths/1 yr? What's the nxt step frm here?

Do we let them drift after they are 'saved' simply b'cos, well, they are oredi saved? Last i checked, most churches have very poor discipling strategies.

Do not be alarmed by my previous post. There is an intense spiritual battle for souls as long as we are still walking on this Earth. I hold on to this verse very strongly & believe with all my heart :

And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Romans 8:28




QUOTE(sylar111 @ Oct 13 2014, 07:00 PM)
Just one question. Do you think a real Christian will continue to be in sin like you describe?

For example, you stated
A dog returns to its vomit,

Are we Christians dogs? I mean if say we have the holy spirit in us. Can we be described in such a way? After all, we are now a new creation. How can we be "dogs" anymore.
Just curious.

22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
It's still about faith. But then real faith is accompanied by works. The logic is pretty simple. If say you claim that you love your gf but then your actions shows otherwise. Then do you really love your GF?

Anyway one final point on Eziekel
26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

29 Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?

So does this passage talks about a righteous person actually turning away from his righteousness or is it talking about the fairness of God in dealing with sin?

On Phillipians 2,
Note that the first part of the chapter says that
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
The thing is. We should be like Christ Jesus. Even though we have already been saved, we should continue in our good works like what Christ Jesus did. As Christ Jesus even though he was God, still did what he was meant to do. Similarly, even though we are saved,  we should not take granted that we are already saved and just do nothing but we should continue to shine as Christians. That's what working out your salvation means.

Anyway.
https://www.raptureready.com/featured/ice/T...ationalism.html

Even your website is supportive of the calvinistic view.
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QUOTE
Even though we have already been saved, we should continue in our good works like what Christ Jesus did. As Christ Jesus even though he was God, still did what he was meant to do. Similarly, even though we are saved,  we should not take granted that we are already saved and just do nothing but we should continue to shine as Christians. That's what working out your salvation means.


I agree with wat u said here nod.gif nod.gif We should behave in such a way after receiving saving grace. Not take it as a license to sin wilfully.

QUOTE
Even your website is supportive of the calvinistic view.


This is not my website. I just go there to read. The owner should filter his articles b4 he approves them.

I recently read an article that took the mid-trib view shakehead.gif wonder how it got posted.

Another article whr the author kept saying the world's population is currently at 9 bil shakehead.gif

I would like to reiterate, i'm not cheapening Grace with 'Salvation by Works' or what-not doctrine.



14-9-2015
post Oct 13 2014, 08:30 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 13 2014, 08:25 PM)
Actually you are preaching Salvation by works.  No, I'm not going to lynch you  biggrin.gif  or anything like that, but to give you a better understanding of God's Salvation which is by God's Grace through Faith. (Romans 3:22) (Romans 11:6 )

Can I discuss with you step by step? I don't want to compress everything under 1 go because it's a huge explanation by itself.
You may get confuse by too much details.

I am very familiar where you are coming from. Believe me I know. I know what they're saying above about OSAS above as well.
But do you know that, this fear that Christian can choose to sin as he likes under Grace, this fleshly fear is not of God but Satan?

The Same accusation that was level at the Apostle Paul" Romans 6:1 - What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?
The very same you are accusing me now.  biggrin.gif , It shows that people don't really understand what God's grace is all about.

Now don't get me wrong, I am for change, for a repentant heart but I do it through God's way, scripturally which is not of God's law. (Romans 7:10)

Can I ask you a question? When you say a Christian must bear the fruit of the Spirit, how does it happen?
Muster it with your will power?

How does a Christian come under the bondage of sin? He sin wilfully?

If you can answer me with scripture reference it will be great (just a few example, no need the whole 10 pages, joking)

Something for you to think about, before we move to the next level of discussion.

I will show you, by way of scripture that God's Salvation is eternally secured.
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Thanks! I knw whr u stand now thumbup.gif . I've always taken the approach whr, its best to stay obedient........u knw, better to be safe than sorry b'cos if we are His, he will chastise us. My previous post is more on personal observation of other Christians as well as the Bible verses that i provided.

Oh! Also, i dun believe in Calvinism one neh......

p.s. prophetjul come in say something i need to learn too

This post has been edited by 14-9-2015: Oct 13 2014, 08:32 PM
14-9-2015
post Oct 13 2014, 08:40 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 13 2014, 08:35 PM)
haha, actually, erm you don't really get me.

I didn't say staying in obedience as a save way for Salvation.  icon_idea.gif
In fact that it self is no assurance and is not of God''s Salvation.

Later. going out for awhile, be back in an hour.
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The gist of my question is basically, what happens then to Christians who live like the devil after being saved without repentance?

What i meant by obedience is like what Sylar333 said :

QUOTE
Even though we have already been saved, we should continue in our good works like what Christ Jesus did. As Christ Jesus even though he was God, still did what he was meant to do. Similarly, even though we are saved,  we should not take granted that we are already saved and just do nothing but we should continue to shine as Christians. That's what working out your salvation means.


so dun look too much into it smile.gif . Christians should behave this way after being saved. tats all.

Finally, i attch 11 verses to my 1st post to u. It would b helpful if u could break it down frm thr & how it reconciles.

Thanks!


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post Oct 13 2014, 09:06 PM

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QUOTE(fabianz03 @ Oct 11 2014, 11:20 PM)
Hi all, hope ya'll had a great day.
I consider myself an atheist because although my official papers state that I have a religion, but deep inside I know I don't believe in any.

Anyway, that's not the point. I'm actually curious about why and how Christians believe in God (I am seriously not trying to insult/condemn/make fun). Like, for me I need proof to believe in something. If God created the universe, where's the proof? Why hasn't God gave us the answer and if God loves us so much, why did He give us AIDS and Ebola and natural disasters?

I'm not looking for solid proof but I'm here just to find enlightenment.
Hope you all can help. Thanks, and oh please quote and reply because I dont lurk here a lot laugh.gif a notification and I'll be here.

Thanks!
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Hello unker,

Personally, i think there's too much order for things to be random in the universe.

I mean just look at planet EARTH. Spinning on an axis at a certain angle. Just compare whr we live near the equator to the north & south poles. HOT here but FREEZING COLD elsewhr. If the planet is just off a bit, either closer or further away frm the sun, life would not b possible on this planet.

The correct composition of gases in our atmosphere is another reason. Too little oxygen content & life would also not b possible.

Conditions must be ngam2 for life to exist. Granted, mild fluctuations are allowed, but thr's not much margin for error.

So there must be a BEGINNING & an END to all things, and if thr is a beginning, then there MUST be a CREATOR notworthy.gif


I think i can add more questions to your list smile.gif :

- why do the citizens in North Korea suffer tremendously?
- why are some ppl born wif physical defects?
- why do kids in Africa starve?
- why God didn't make me more handsome/richer/taller, etc rolleyes.gif ?
- why, why, why????!!!!

What the Bible says on the above is very interesting :

- Man sinned & these are the effects of a fallen world. Its effects are yet to be lifted for the time is yet to come. That is why there is still much pain.
- Although God created everything, he's currently not ruling the Earth with an iron scepter as yet. satan is currently in charge, but God is very much in control icon_rolleyes.gif .




14-9-2015
post Oct 13 2014, 09:14 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 13 2014, 08:35 PM)
Can I ask you a question? When you say a Christian must bear the fruit of the Spirit, how does it happen?
Muster it with your will power?

How does a Christian come under the bondage of sin? He sin wilfully?
*
By the leading of the Holy Spirit. Sometimes there is a very strong tug at the heart. I suppose the spirit is more sensitive when the H.S. comes probing. At least that's how i feel at times unsure.gif I can't speak for every Christian cos i'm not them.

As for your question on sinning wilfully, we stil have free will wat, no meh?

Pls read my reply to Sylar444's post too.

Thanks brahhhhh!
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post Oct 13 2014, 10:43 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Oct 13 2014, 10:11 PM)
Haha. Looks like we have a differing view.

Because I believe in OSAS. The thing is, I believe that as Christians, our salvation has been secured. That verse was not about doing works to ensure your salvation but then to live in a way that identifies you as a Christian so that you do not spoil God's name.
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My church doesn't teach this. I read from internet wan. Tats y i said i dun believe in 'salvation by works' doctrine. biggrin.gif

Then i read the verses & i go hmmmm hmm.gif but just so u knw, i'm stil having a very hard time in understanding how some Christians can backslide very badly. In ur own circle/experience, do u knw of any ermmm unsure.gif .......bad Christians? Refer to my Christian counsellor line to u. I have no answers for this either & neither do i wish to tempt fate. Sometimes a healthy fear of the Lord does indeed keep us frm sinning.

Nvm. mayb u can gif me ur POV(i wan to knw other Christians stance too icon_question.gif ) on another case:

Lets take a look at Judas. He was 1 of the 12 apostles. The 12 who were closes to Jesus & they were indeed privileged to learn frm the (obviously) rolleyes.gif best teacher notworthy.gif

They also witnessed the many miracles tat were performed & learned frm Him. All these events no doubt strengthened their faith in the One. The 12 also had power as described in the following verse:

Jesus called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out impure spirits and to heal every disease and sickness. Matthew 10:1


So......can we safely assume tat Judas was once a genuine believer but later.....well....we knw wat he did & wat happened to him. Or do we say tat Judas had planned to betray Jesus right frm the start of his discipleship wif Christ & tat he nvr believed? hmm.gif

Maybe we say tat he wasn't indwelt by the H.S. since it was b4 the day of Pentecost, so he was susceptible to betray Jesus for a mere 30 pieces of metal? unsure.gif


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post Oct 13 2014, 10:56 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Oct 13 2014, 10:53 PM)
Well. I never knew the top part was meant for me.

Anyway. I do realize that sometimes as Christians, we put a lot of presure on ourselves. The thing is. Sometimes, we have this false belief that we can overcome sin by our own strength.

A lot of Christians started out this way. They try to overcome their sin using their own strength. But then we know that overcoming sin using one's own strength will only lead to a speculative fall. The reason is because a person is sinful not purely because of the deads he do, but because of his own state. You see, even if a Christian do not commit adultery, but then Jesus said that just looking at a woman lustfully, you are already committing adultery. You see, sin is a state. It's not just the act of doing. The thing is, in order to really overcome sin, you need the holy spirit to remove that desire of sinning from your heart. Also, the holy spirit needs to convict you in a way that sinning is not profitable to you.

You really cannot suppress those desires using your own strength. The more you suppress, the more your desires will overcome you.
Romans
4 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Romans 5
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

For back slidding Christians, there are 2 kind.
The prodigal son. Even though it appears that he has back slidden. But the fact is that, after having back slidded, he still understands that he is a child of God. And when he lost everything, he came back to his father in a very humbled state. So, even though he back slided, but then in his heart he never forgotten about his identity.

The second one is perhaps one who even though seem to have a passion for Christ on the surface, but in actual fact, deep down, never took Christianity seriously. The reason as to why they came into Christianity was for reasons other then seeking for the truth and believing in Christ. Outwardly they may proclaim to love Jesus but then there seems to be other agenda. The truth was never entrenched into their hearts.

You see, you even stated this verse.
And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are <b>called according to his purpose</b>.

Obviously only those who are called, can things end up good for them.

The thing is, you think that someone who seem to work really hard or seem to have strong faith are really Christians but then the thing is, if they really had the true faith, do you think they would have fallen from grace so easily?

It's so easy to identify people who at one moment seem to be passionate for Christ and then the next moment, blespheme Christ Name at the moment. Most often, those people who falls from the faith actually become worse then they started off. It shows really clearly to me that their eyes were not open in the first place because if their eyes were even once opened, they would not have treated Jesus in such a way. Even if they had "fallen" away, they would still have some respect for our Christ.
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aiyoh! sori bro! should have quoted u 1st b4 i replied blush.gif .

Edited: thanks! this is a good explanation.

This post has been edited by 14-9-2015: Oct 13 2014, 11:07 PM
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post Oct 13 2014, 11:18 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 13 2014, 11:10 PM)
My answer is this.

If they lived like the devil, they have not heard the Gospel correctly.

I'm very very sure they've heard the Law of God rather than the Grace of God and very very sure

Must have heard preaching of condemnation of sin. Thou Shall not sin else Ye shall enter Hell's damnation.

I tell you the truth, the more they hear this type of preaching the more they end up in sin.

Why? Because the Law was never designed to make us righteous neither was it designed for us to fulfilled it.

I tell you one more truth Bro.

For YEARS we have heard this type of preaching, Thou shall not sin, Thou Shall not sin, many people are still not transformed. Many are still living in sin.

They have not heard about Jesus Christ. Really not. How many preaching do you hear on Sunday and expound on Jesus Christ and what he did at the cross?
How many preaching have you heard about RIght Living vs Christ Jesus at the cross? I bet with you, the former is preached more.

And THAT is exactly why Lives are not transformed. Why? Because it's going back to the Law of the OT.
Many Christians are very sincere in that they want change.

Do you know what happens to Christians who subscribe to the Law? They become hard and legalistic Christian. They cannot change through God's Law.

Only through Grace. If you give me a chance to explain it.
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Ha ha ha! yeah mang! exactly! i agree wif the highlighted blue part.

As for the red higlight, pls go ahead nod.gif
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post Oct 13 2014, 11:35 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 13 2014, 11:24 PM)
Brother, Fruit of the Holy Spirit, not talking about the conviction of the Holy Spirit, A tug in the heart is conviction, like being lead in life by the Holy Spirit. what you're doing is wrong. I'm talking about the power here.

Like refraining from lust or pornography, do you know self control is a Fruit of the HS? Love and Peace and all that.

Some ppl muster effort, like trying to conjure Faith, errmmmm how do I put this without sounding rude? Like Pangsai...you know. lol.

I tell you what is in line with scripture.

It comes effortless without you even realizing it. That is of God.
If you're conscious all the time about what you do, that is of yourself.

Yes Any Christian have the freewil to sin but what expedite it? I mean what will cause Christians sin all the time?

I'll you the answer. The Law of God.
*
i see.......

sometimes hor, temptation can come on very strongly. then, sometimes it just goes away automatically. at other times, frens can b a bad influence & b a form of temptation too.

yeah ( blue highlight ), sometimes its the conscience. at other times, u knw its too strong a pull to be called conscience. its more of a deep-set conviction tat can only come frm the H.S.

u by any chance have any experience wif or as a Christian counsellor? i've overheard some really hardcore cases tat they're dealing wif & i go rclxub.gif
but mostly, to preserve anonymity, counsellors only counsel members frm other churches & vice versa.
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post Oct 13 2014, 11:46 PM

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QUOTE(ngaisteve1 @ Oct 13 2014, 11:41 PM)
Just wondering do you guys have a 'small group' (ie 3-4 person - same grp of ppl) meet up together on regular basis (ie once or twice a week) say to encourage, spur one another, to share our struggles, to share good news?
*
wat for??!! isn't it better to remain anonymous on the interweb & discuss in this manner?

irl i might get angry vmad.gif mad.gif & punch ThePope in the face then how??! laugh.gif
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post Oct 13 2014, 11:57 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 13 2014, 11:52 PM)
I can understand it la bro.

Ppl will naturally ask. If what you preach is true then

Won't ppl sin like crazy and still think they're saved?
What about the fear of God?
What about judgement?

I get a lot of this responses. The Apostle Paul also got the same questioned thrown.

Romans 6:1 - What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?

You notice or not the same pattern of questions was levelled at him through this verse.

Ppl saying to Him, so that means I can go on sinning la, so that God's grace will increase. See the pattern?
Bcos previously He mentioned this.

Romans 5:20 - The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more,
Do you see the word there "the Law" or not?

Do you see it's purpose or not?  rclxms.gif It was brought in so that trespass might increase! haha.

Crazy right?
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huh! nod.gif now this guy understands wat i'm trying to present.

ya mang, sometimes u wish it could all b over sooner & all the pain & conflicts deep inside go away once u reach the other side of the Jordan icon_rolleyes.gif
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post Oct 14 2014, 12:27 AM

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QUOTE(fabianz03 @ Oct 13 2014, 09:19 PM)
Thanks for all the replies. May I ask what does the Holy Spirit mean?
*
Oh dear! i'm so sori fabianz05 sad.gif

we have been moving this thread so fast today tat we missed ur post.

On top of all the answers tat u were given, the nxt answer would probably reinforce it further for u......so here goes :

I KNOW WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT THAT GOD notworthy.gif IS REAL b'cos he speaks to me in the form of the Holy Spirit icon_rolleyes.gif

God is a spirit & the way he communicates to me is by speaking to my heart.

where as, my spirit communicates wif your spirit through our bodies. our bodies act as a medium on this plain (EARTH).

tat is y ppl always ask whtr God exist.........b'cos they can't see Him biggrin.gif

That is why Christians pray. We are not crazy ppl talking to the wall u knw!

as for the explanation of the triune God, pls ask this guy to explain : unknown warrior
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post Oct 14 2014, 06:45 PM

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QUOTE(General Fahmy @ Oct 14 2014, 06:28 PM)
yeah la, thats what i say all along.

Sure or not, that he will restore the kingdom around the soil of Israel?

I thought Israel is a symbolic word for God's people like Church is for God's congregation rather than a building.
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Physical Israel la maniakam123 rolleyes.gif Israel will be the power seat frm whr Christ notworthy.gif will rule during the 1000-yr millennial reign.

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