May 31 2014, 01:00 PM

I think that we here understand your point, we aren't that stupid not to agree with you with certain conditions of so called "Christians".

But, it is not very constructive nor building for us to hear or read negative things. It doesn't help you nor us. We too have eyes and are not blind.

After all, this is thread is for us Christians to help each other spiritually.

What is the point of your sharing?

Pouring out your frustration? Are you seeking <something> from us?

This post has been edited by pehkay: Jun 3 2014, 09:57 AM

Sharing from Deuteronomy 15 ...

Deuteronomy 15 say that the firstborn ox should not be put to work and the firstborn sheep should not be shorn; instead, they should be eaten (vv. 19-20).

What does this mean according to typology? When many Christians and non-Christians talk about Christ, they expect that Christ will either till the ground or be shorn. No one thinks of eating Christ.

To ask Christ to till the ground means to ask Him to labor on your behalf, to do things for you. Did you know that every day you want the Lord Jesus to till the ground for you? You do not have a way to deal with your wife, so you pray, "Lord, You know the kind of wife You have given me; I am helpless. Please deal with her." This is to ask the Lord Jesus to till the ground for you. Some sisters may pray, "Lord, You know how stubborn my husband is. Lord, You have to deal with him; otherwise, I will not be able to bear it any longer." When you ask the Lord to do things for you in this way, you are asking Him to till the ground as an ox.

What is the meaning of shearing the sheep of the wool? Wool is used to make clothing. You may want Christ to be your outward adornment; you try to imitate Christ outwardly. It is rare to find Christians who have escaped these two things. Those Christians who do not love the Lord simply ignore Him. However, Christians who love the Lord want Him either to till the ground or to be shorn.

The Bible does not tell us to till the ground but to eat. Do not ask Christ to do anything for you; rather, eat Christ into you. Do not pray and ask Christ to change your wife; instead, eat Christ into you and live by Him! Your wife may not change a bit; yet to you, to live is Christ. Do not ask the Lord to give your husband a beating; the Lord will never answer this kind of prayer. The Lord will say, "I will use My staff as a whip to beat you instead." You have to eat the Lord. When you eat the Lord, any mistreatment from your husband will be sweet to you. You do not need the Lord to till the ground; neither do you need to shear Him. You simply need to eat Him.

It seems that the Lord is saying, "I am the bread of life. He who eats Me shall live because of Me. Do not expect Me to do anything for you or expect Me to be your outward adornment. You have to understand that I come to give you life and to give it more abundantly. I want to enter into you to be your life and your everything. As long as I live in you, you should not care about the outward circumstances. It is good if your wife has changed; it is even better if she has not changed. It is good to have a submissive wife; it is even better to have an unsubmissive wife. A warm and tender husband is lovely, of course; however, a rough and tough husband is even lovelier."

Therefore, what matters today is to have life within us, not to implore Christ to do anything for us. As long as Christ enters into us to be our life and our supply, we can do the things that others cannot do, we can endure the sufferings that others cannot endure, and we can bear the burdens that others cannot bear. Do not till the ground or shear the sheep. Instead, eat the Lord! Do not expect Him to be your Prophet or your King. He came to be the bread of life to you. Therefore, eat Him!

...

A GRAIN OF WHEAT ABIDING ALONE UNLESS IT FALLS INTO THE GROUND AND DIES

The Lord Jesus said, "Unless the grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it abides alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit" (John 12:24). This word applies not only to the Lord Jesus but also to us. Today we have the Lord’s life in us, so we are the many grains of wheat. Yet we are unable to multiply, unable to bear much fruit, and unable to produce many grains because we have not been broken through death.

Many of us are very stable, steady, and whole. Many times, however, our stability, steadiness, and wholeness are our problem. For example, although we may have been saved for years, we may not have any scars or any evidence of the work of the cross on us, and our being may still be intact, whole, steady, and unchanged. The only difference may be that before we were saved, we were wild, careless, and misbehaving. After being saved, however, we are no longer wild and careless but rather well behaved. This is merely a change in behavior.

There are two kinds of change that can occur in a Christian. One is a change in outward conduct, and the other is a change in the inward life. A change in outward behavior means that in the past you did whatever you liked, acting loosely and without any restraint. But now, since you have been saved, you feel that your former conduct would not befit a Christian and therefore you need to be more cautious. However, this is merely an outward change; your inner being is still the same. You are still secure and firm, stable and steady, whole and intact. You are still your original person. Our problem is not in our outward behavior but in our disposition, our natural life, and our old self.

GOD DESIRING THAT MAN BE TRANSFORMED IN LIFE INWARDLY

Christianity today exhorts people to improve their outward behavior, but what God pays attention to is far higher than this. God is not after a mere change in man’s outward behavior; rather, He desires man to have an inward transformation in life. He does not want us to merely change our outward living. He wants us to be broken in our inward disposition. The outward change of behavior gains the praises of man, but it cannot please God. What God desires and what pleases Him is not the improvement of our outward behavior but the transformation in life and the breaking of our inward disposition. Mere behavior improvement makes us good persons but not spiritual persons. In order to be spiritual, we need to be broken inwardly. Without being broken, without suffering any blows, and without passing through death, we can be persons who are whole but not persons who are full of life.

What others see in your outward behavior improvement is your morality but not your spirituality. Many times, just as your immorality can become your covering, so your morality can also become your covering. The unbelievers require us to have a high morality, which is reasonable and right. Yet God’s requirement in us is much higher than this. God requires that we be broken and crushed so that the Christ within us-the glorious Christ, the Christ of holiness-may be lived out through us.

GOD DESIRING THAT CHRIST BE LIVED OUT FROM WITHIN US

There are a few kinds of Christians. One kind is the degraded Christian. From the human perspective, Christians of this kind do not look like Christians at all because they live and walk just like the unbelievers. Such Christians are degraded Christians. Another kind are the well-behaved Christians. Formerly such ones were loose, but now they behave properly; formerly they did evil, but now they do good. In man’s eyes, these Christians are above the standard. In God’s eyes, however, they are still below the standard, because what God is after is neither degraded Christians nor Christians who are above the standard.

What God desires is not just that we would be delivered from sins but that Christ would be lived out from within us. This is not a matter of being good or evil, proper or improper, or moral or immoral. Rather, it is a matter of Christ being lived out from within us. We all know that after we are saved, we have God in us as our life. However, is it we who live, or is it God who lives? Is it we who are lived out, or is it God who is lived out? The crux of the matter is whether or not we are willing to be broken and to pass through death. If we are not willing to be broken or to pass through death, God will have no way to live out from within us. However, if we are willing to be broken and to die, God will be able to live out from within us. According to the Bible, to deny the self is to pass through death and the breaking.

We should not merely take care of our human needs; we should also take care of God’s need. When the Lord Jesus was incarnated, He was restricted, constrained, and unable to be released from His human body. However, through His death He was released. The shell of His human body was broken through death so that the divinity within Him, the Christ within Him, could be released. The issue of this release was that God’s life could enter into many people and into us as well. However, immediately after His life came into us, He was confined and constrained in us.

Wow ... your first post here as a new user?

Punkolyte,

You are Christian?

Why do you want to know?

It's a movie ... definitely some "artistic license" were taken that were not accurate.

This review seem reasonable : http://www.blogos.org/gotquestions/son-of-God.php

This post has been edited by pehkay: Jun 11 2014, 11:31 AM

Not really ^^;

CHRIST NEEDING BROKEN VESSELS TO BE CHANNELS OF LIVING WATER

Christ does not need whole vessels; instead, He needs broken vessels. This is because only broken vessels can be channels of living water. Whole vessels can only be cisterns of dead water (Jeremiah 2:13). The biggest problem today is that it is hard to find any wounds or scars in most Christians. Most of us do not have any wounds, scars, marks of death, or experiences of the cross. Even though we have been saved and truly have Christ’s life in us, this life has no way to come out. The reason is not that our behavior is too poor or too good but that we are too whole and too impregnable. Because we have no wounds, Christ has no way to be released from within us.

Suppose a person is quick-tempered and appears arrogant. It would be relatively easy for such a one to become humble because he may often examine himself and condemn his irritability. Suppose another person is meek by nature and apparently humble. It would be harder for such a one to know himself. Instead, it would be easy for him to become proud before God. He may think that the other person is irritable and arrogant while he is meek and humble. What is this? This is real pride. Sometimes when we go to visit people, the wife says, "My husband is too quick." What she means is that her husband is quick but she is not and that she is meek but her husband is troublesome. However, she is actually more troublesome before God than her husband. It is hard for many of the saints who have a number of good points to make any spiritual progress. This is due to the fact that they have listened to many messages not for themselves but for others.

Some of the saints do not seem to have a bad temper; they are as gentle as sheep. However, they always listen to messages not for themselves but for others. When they hear a word concerning breaking, they think, "Brother A is quick-tempered, so he surely needs to be broken. Sister B is not good either, so she also needs to be broken." It never occurs to them that those who are meek need to be broken even more than those who are quick-tempered.

It is often easier for God to deal with a stubborn person than with a pliable person. Someone may seem to be so pliable, like a rubber ball, that God has no way to break him. When a certain situation arises, he does not care. When he is dealt with by his supervisor, he does not care. When he is dealt with by some of his family members, he cares even less. Like a rubber ball, he bounces back whenever he is hit, and he bounces up whenever he is thrown down. This kind of person is indifferent toward everything; he is unbreakable. He cannot be broken by one person, nor by two, three, or even five persons. However, if he were a glass, he could be broken with a single stroke.

If a sister cannot be broken by her husband, her son, or her daughter-in-law, people will praise her, saying that she is really spiritual because she cannot be broken by anyone. However, we must realize that because she is not broken and cannot be broken, Christ has no way to live out from her. What she lives out is her whole self, her smooth and refined self, but not Christ. Christ has no way to live out of her.

Neither our kindness, our good deeds, nor our morality can represent Christ. Only Christ Himself can represent Christ. Nothing that we have, even if it is good, can represent Christ. The progress of a Christian’s spiritual life does not depend on how much he has changed; rather, it depends on how much he has been broken and to what stature Christ has grown in him. In other words, the growth of a Christian hinges on his being broken and Christ’s increasing in him.

The best way is ask for this from the Lord. We are here not for any other thing but to know Christ. We should not pray for our work but for this revelation, the revelation that Christ in us has become our life. We have to comprehend, to sense, and to practically experience Christ’s working Himself into us through our environments.

greener pastures as in? the world?

Sad huh ?

THE RELEASE OF THE LIFE OF CHRIST

Luke 12:50 says, "But I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how I am pressed until it is accomplished!" The Greek word for pressed has a wonderful meaning that is hard to express in translation. The original meaning of this word refers to a person being confined in a house or put into a box and therefore feeling constrained and pressed, not freed or released.

The Lord said that He had a baptism to be baptized with and that He was pressed until it was accomplished. He had a baptism to be baptized with, and this baptism was His death, the death on the cross. Many who do not know the mystery of Christ's life think that the Lord Jesus was afraid to die on the cross. However, this verse shows us that the Lord was very eager to die on the cross. Why? He was eager to die because there was a powerful, unlimited, and eternal life concealed in Him, and He strongly wished that He could release it.

God is infinite and His life is also infinite. One day this infinite God came into a small man who, on the contrary, was finite. What is incarnation? Incarnation is God’s coming into man and mingling Himself with man. God is infinite, whereas man is finite. Incarnation is the mingling of the infinite God with the finite man. If you put me into a 3.75 square-foot box, I will feel constrained, pressed, and bound every second. If I were there for only one minute, I would be pressed for the entire minute.

THE DEATH OF THE CROSS DOING THE BREAKING WORK

What is the effect of death? The effect of death is the breaking work. What needs to be broken? The human shell has to be broken. Where is it broken? It is broken on the cross. Many people think that the death of the cross is merely a suffering of punishment and pain. However, all those who know the cross know that the cross is more than the suffering of pain and punishment. The death of the cross causes the human shell to be split and broken so that the unlimited life can be released from man. This is what the Lord meant when He said, "I have a baptism to be baptized with." He was very much restricted in the human flesh; therefore, He longed to go to the cross that He might be broken. His death was a breaking work that enabled the unlimited life to be released from Him.

In John 12:24 the Lord Jesus said, "Unless the grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it abides alone." The life of the grain of wheat is concealed in the shell of the wheat and is restricted by this outer shell. However, if this grain of wheat dies, death will have an effect which allows the life of the wheat to be released. Hence, the Lord Jesus said that once the grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it begins to grow and bear much fruit. However, suppose we put this grain of wheat into a beautiful box to honor and respect it. If this grain of wheat could speak, it would plead with us, saying, "Do not honor and respect me in this way. I am greatly bound here. I would rather that you give me an environment in which I could die. I am very eager to die because death is my only way out. Only by death can the life within me break forth."

(...)

THE LORD'S LIFE BEING RELEASED THROUGH THE DEATH OF THE CROSS

Those who know Christ will say that the death of the Lord Jesus on the cross is beyond human imagination. If you ask a Muslim why the Lord Jesus died, he may tell you that Jesus sacrificed Himself for the truth. If you ask a genuine Christian why Jesus died, he will reply that Jesus died to bear the sin of the world and become a curse for the world. We have to bear in mind, however, that knowing the Lord to this extent is not high enough or accurate enough. If we ask a more advanced and spiritual Christian, he will say, "The Lord Jesus not only bore the sin of the world on the cross, He also obtained a great release. His life, which was concealed in the human shell given to Him by Mary, was released. This was because the death of the cross broke His human shell and split the veil, His physical body. His life was thus released on the cross."

When He was on the cross, a soldier pierced His side with a spear, and immediately there came out blood and water (John 19:34). Blood signifies that He bore our sins and redeemed us. Hence, the death of the Lord Jesus was a redemptive death, as indicated by the blood. However, not only did blood come out on the cross but also water. Water refers to life. The Lord’s death was not merely for the accomplishment of redemption but also for the release of life. If He, the one grain of wheat, was to be multiplied thirtyfold, sixtyfold, or a hundredfold, He had to pass through death. If He had not died, He would have remained a single grain. But since He died, the life of this single grain has entered into the many grains. He was a seed that was full of life. If He had not died, His life would have remained only in Himself and could not have entered into Peter, James, John, the other disciples, and all those who have believed in Him. Do not say that time is so long and space is so wide. If He had not died, His life would have stayed only in Himself and could not have been in the disciples. If He had not died, He could have walked among the disciples, but He could not have lived in them.

Regrettably, the disciples only knew the preciousness of the Lord’s presence among them, but it never occurred to them that the Lord would come into them and be mingled with them. The Lord intended to be in them as their life. The Lord said that He had a baptism to be baptized with, that He had to suffer death. The Lord felt that death was a glory and a release, but the disciples were sorrowful. Why were the disciples sorrowful? It was because the Lord had to die. There were originally thirteen of them altogether—the Lord Jesus plus the disciples. If the Lord died, however, they felt that they would be like orphans. Nevertheless, the Lord Jesus told them not to be sorrowful because in only three days He would come back into their midst. Furthermore, not only would He be in their midst, but He would also enter into them and abide in them. Previously whenever the disciples were in Galilee, and the Lord was in the land of Judea, He had no way to be with them because He was restricted by His human shell. However, after the Lord’s death His life was released from within Him, and after His resurrection this life entered into all those who believed in Him.

Hope this testimony is beneficial .... it is certainly for me.

...I can also tell you another story, that at a certain hour of a certain day in a certain month and certain year, God opened my eyes to see that Christ is my healing. This is something that cannot be repeated; it is something that cannot be quantified. Once is enough. It is not a thing that can be counted. It is a person, a personified healing. My healing is a person who is in me as my healing all the time. Praise the Lord that this is a fact. Having God heal me and having Him as my healing are two entirely different things. One is a thing; the other is a person.

Paul was not healed, but he received the healing. Can we see the difference between these two? Paul showed in 2 Corinthians 12 that he was not healed (v. 9). He did not receive the thing which we call healing. But with Paul, we see One who was his healing continually. His weakness remained with him, but his healing also remained with him. His weakness was chronic, but his healing was abiding. What is a healing? To us, a healing is the removal of something. No, healing is not a removal; healing is acquiring something. Healing is not the removal of weakness but the presence of strength.

When I first saw this matter, the light came very slowly because my mind was filled with things; everything around me was a thing. I did not realize that the Lord wanted to be my thing, and I did not know that healing was not a thing. I only knew that the Lord promised me something; I did not know that the Lord wanted to be my healing. I only knew about the Lord’s promise; I did not know about the Lord as my healing. One day I read Paul’s story in 2 Corinthians. It was very strange to me. It would have been an easy thing for the Lord to grant him the healing. Removing the thorn was as easy for the Lord as a doctor removing germs. But why did the Lord not heal Paul? I prayed about this, and while I was praying, the Lord showed me one thing. In 1923 Brother Weigh invited me to preach at a certain place. In order to get there, I had to take a little boat along the Min River. The boats often became stuck to the riverbed because the water was too shallow and the rocks were big. The boat owner often had to tug the boat along. While I was praying, this scene suddenly appeared in my mind. I said, "God, it would be easy for You to remove the rocks. Would it not be wonderful if You removed the rocks, and the boat floated on the water instead?" I read 2 Corinthians 12 and realized that this was exactly how Paul prayed. The water was too shallow, and the rocks were exposed conspicuously; Paul prayed that God would remove the rocks so that he could sail on the water once again. But God answered by saying that He would not remove the rocks. Instead, He caused the water level to rise. When the water rises, the boat can pass over the rocks. This is what God is doing. Our problem and our prayer are that we are only for a thing—healing. But His answer is for Him to be our healing. When He is present, we can glide over our problems. Paul’s weakness was still there; he did not use his own strength to fight it. If he fought with his own strength, he could only say that his own strength had tabernacled over him. But it was the power of Christ which tabernacled over him (v. 9). It was God who was working. There is a basic difference here. One is God giving me a thing, and the other is God Himself becoming my thing. God in me becomes the thing that I need. God Himself is that very thing.

(Watchman Nee)

GOD PAYING ATTENTION NOT TO RIGHT AND WRONG BUT TO CHRIST

In our natural being we cannot avoid the concept of right and wrong. We tend to think that if we do something right, we are pleasing God, and if we do something good, we are in His shining. We seldom realize that what God pays attention to is beyond goodness and beyond right and wrong. What God pays attention to is whether we do things out of Christ or out of ourselves. According to our concept God rejects what is wrong and accepts what is right. In God’s view, however, only that which is of Christ is acceptable; whatever is of ourselves, whether good or bad, is utterly rejected by God. God’s view is different from man's view. God does not take right and wrong or good and evil as the criterion; He takes Christ as the criterion. Whatever is not of Christ, whether good or bad, is not acceptable to God. Only that which is lived out in Christ and by Christ can be accepted by God. In short, what God wants in us is not what we live out but what Christ lives out through us.

THE DIFFICULTY OF MAN IN CEASING HIS ACTIVITIES

However, there is a big problem. Since man is a living being, having his own preference, thinking, emotion, will, and choice, how can he not live out himself? How can he cease all his activities and let Christ live out through him? This is truly a difficult matter. Not only is it difficult to stop ourselves in big matters, it is even more difficult to stop ourselves in small matters. For example, if we are really enjoying ourselves in a conversation with someone, it is not easy for us to stop ourselves. Even if we stop talking outwardly, we may still murmur within. It is difficult for us to simply listen while others are telling us something. This shows us that when a person is active, it is not easy for him to stop his activity.

In the service of the church today we often do things out of ourselves. Apparently, the things we do are good, right, and profitable, but actually they are done out of ourselves. We may even know that we do them out of ourselves, yet it is still difficult for us to stop. To a certain extent we all have experienced this. Consider reading the Bible as an example. Sometimes while we are enjoying reading the Word, we may get an inward feeling that we should spend a little time to pray for the church. According to spiritual principles, once we have such a feeling, we should immediately stop reading and pray instead. However, usually we are not willing to stop. This again shows us that it is not easy for us to stop our activity.

It is the same with the matter of fellowship. Sometimes we may fellowship with someone to a point where we are full of joy and want to continue talking with him, but we have a feeling within us that we should go visit a saint who is sick or has a problem. It is one thing to have the willingness to fellowship with others, but it is another thing to have the feeling to go and visit the saints. However, because we are too willing to fellowship, we are unable to stop, and because we are enjoying the fellowship, we would not visit the saints.

Erm .... it is just to treat the soul. Though historically, it has its issues and controversy. I think it is the same with Psychology though psychiatry deals more with mental disorder.


Well, .... it's good to know that you are a tripartite man (spirit, soul and body). Even if a Christian is strong in his/her spirit, a problem in their soul (psychologically) will still override any benefits in their experience of Christ. All three parts of our being needs to be proper and functioning (c.f. 1 Thes. 5:23) to be useful to the Lord and also to pursue Him.

We should not try to spiritualize things. If we have problems like depression or psychological problems, please, seek medical expertise. Because Satan will use the severely damaged and fallen soul to contemplate suicide (for example). No matter, how high or how deep your experience of Christ in your spirit, if the soul or the body is destroyed, your Christian life ends there.

Once their soul (psychology) is "treated", then the experience of the Lord's grace and the prayers of the believers (in the spirit) is needed to overcome the problem.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Jun 22 2014, 06:10 PM

Whoah I think you just need to step back a bit and stand on my shoe

Seriously, I don't know you or any of your stance. I just shared my opinion. This is just my opinion and not the group here [though why do you need to see if you are suitable here?? Are you a Christian? ]

Also, IMHO, your stance might have cause you assume that I made statement that I DO NOT make

Firstly, I did not say "feel that the bible itself is not able to treat the soul". There are quite a few verses, especially, the Spirit giving life to our mind and renews them. But the condition requires as in Romans 8, to set our mind on the spirit. If our mind is in a bad condition, there is no need to say how one can experience the Spirit's life. The Holy Spirit is leading the saints all the time. Yet, we have to let or give room to it. If one, does not give room to it, he can be just like be living like an unbeliever. Do note that the will of man is part of the soul. When it is damaged, how can one made a coherent choice ?

I know of some of controversy in psychiatric like you mentioned. I think we can make some judgement not to go for electrical shock or not go for psychiatric at all. On the other extreme, if there is a real need for some treatment, we should not superstitiously say it is not Biblical or something.

But on the other hand, I also know those who benefited from the medication because he or she suffers from schizophrenia. Then he/she is "sober" enough to continue to experience the Lord.

Also, I didn't say that psychiatry books are more important than the Bible. Personally, if you read my sharing from the Gospel of John, you will see the self-help books in general are useless.

Lastly, this thread is about sharing on the experiences of Christ for the building up of the church. It is not about psychiatry or a collection of like-minded people

This post has been edited by pehkay: Jun 22 2014, 08:12 PM

Is this asking about salvation again?

Our spirit cannot be sick . That is the only place Satan cannot touch.

Our soul is another story. Since the fall, it is in terrible shape