A very classic arminianism article

Eh? You are not sure of what it is ?

You know John Wesley? Perhaps the clearest and boldest proponent of the Arminian view is John Wesley. An ardent foe of Calvinism, Wesley split with George Whitefield mainly over the issue of predestination.

Concerning the perseverance of the saints, Wesley asserts:

If a believer make shipwreck of the faith, he is no longer
a child of God. And then he may go to hell, yea, and certainly will, if he continues in unbelief….He who is a child
of God to-day, may be a child of the devil to-morrow.
(Wesley 297-298)

The founder of this view, Jacob Arminius is notable for his gentle approach even to controversy. Concerning the perseverance of the saints, he says honestly,

Though I here openly and ingenuously affirm, I never
taught that a true believer can either totally or finally fall
away from the faith, and perish; yet I will not conceal,
that there are passages of Scripture which seem to me to
wear this aspect; and those answers to them which I have
been permitted to see, are not of such a kind as to
approve themselves on all points to my understanding.
On the other hand, certain passages are produced for the
contrary doctrine [of unconditional perseverance] which
are worthy of much consideration.

Yup. He is the founder of the Methodist. Indeed it was strong words.

This is why he contributed or recovered the truth on sanctification.

He was profoundly influenced by the mystics of Madame Guyon and William Law to further recover the truth concerning sanctification, realizing a man is not only justified by faith, but also sanctified by faith.

John Wesley thought that sanctification was sinless perfection by methods. So, this is where the label Methodist came from.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 22 2014, 10:48 AM

The "mechanic" of rapture? I think no ones knows .... Bible is kinda silent on it. It won't be like chariot of fire coming [Elijah].

At first, I thought you are referring to the problem of when ... now that is a messy one.

Offhand, the only er ... "sense" or "feeling" or "meaning", I guess is the first mention of rapture in the Bible ... Enoch.

Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God, and he was not, for God took him.

The interesting thing is in Hebrew, it is just that he was NOT. Hebrews called it "translated". He was not! God is!

It convey a feeling that the rapture that delivers us does not happen suddenly [not referring to twinkling of the eye], but is a result of a step-by-step walk with the Lord. The rapture is the last step of our walk with the Lord. All that men see will be the instant change from earth to where the Lord is. But this is merely the last step of the rapture. The beginning of the rapture does not happen then. When a believer is attracted by God and walking away from the world step by step, he becomes further and further away from the world, and there will be a clearer and clearer separation between him and the world. When the process is complete, he will find himself waking up before the face of the Lord. This is the way that Enoch was raptured.

<shrug> The mechanics is not really that important, but what is important, is the way to be raptured. And that is messy.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 23 2014, 08:38 AM

The Experience of Jacob

Being Met by God the First Time

In verse 13 we see that here Jacob was met by God for the first time. We all need to be met by God. This is basic. Jacob was born into a godly family. Abraham, Isaac, Sarah, and Rebekah were all godly people. Although it is good to be born into such a godly family, we must still have our own direct, personal meeting with God. Everyone in your home may eat, but you must still be an eating person yourself. Do not say, "Oh, my grandfather was Abraham, my grandmother was Sarah, and my parents are Isaac and Rebekah." What about you? Everyone in your family is an eating person, but do you yourself eat? Concerning God, Jacob had acquired knowledge, but he had not eaten anything. He had been born into a godly family, but before the dream at Bethel, he himself had had no direct meeting with God. But, much to his surprise, here at Bethel, God met him for the first time. Jacob did not intend to meet God. It was God who was waiting there for him. God had already come down from heaven and was there on earth.

The experience of the Samaritan woman in John 4 is similar to Jacob's experience in Genesis 28. The Lord Jesus, who had come down from heaven, went to the well purposely to meet her. To that Samaritan woman, Jacob's well was Bethel, and Jesus was there as the heavenly ladder. If, like Jacob, she had had an actual dream, she would have seen the angels ascending to heaven to bring the good report that she had met the Lord. The angels might have said, "The sinful Samaritan woman, the one who has had so many husbands and who is living with a man who is not her husband, has come to Jesus!" The situation was the same when you came to the Lord. Jesus, the heavenly ladder, was waiting for you. On the day you were saved, you had your first dream and were met by God for the first time. How wonderful this is! If you examine your experience, you will say, "Praise the Lord! Now I understand what happened to me that day. Before I was saved, the heavenly ladder had been set up on earth, and God was waiting there to meet me."

When God first met Jacob, He said, "I am the Lord God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac" (v. 13). This implied that God was to be Jacob's God. The God of his father and grandfather is still not his God. We all have experienced the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac. Since the God of Abraham is the God of justification and the God of Isaac is the God of grace, this means that we have experienced the God of justification and the God of grace. Although we have experienced such a God, we also need to meet and experience the God of Jacob. This means that God will be to us the God of transformation, the God of dealings. Knowing the God of Abraham means that we are justified, and knowing the God of Isaac means that we enjoy the grace of God. But we must also have a dream in which the God of Jacob says, "I shall be your God. I shall be the God of a heel-holder, the God of a supplanter. The more you supplant, the better I can deal with you. The more you hold the heels of others, the more I shall put you into the oven. I shall be to you the God of Jacob." Eventually, the Bible says that God is the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, and that this God is not the God of the dead but of the living (Matt. 22:32). My God is not only the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac; He is also the God of Jacob, the God of dealings who deals with me all day long. If we only stay with the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac, never experiencing God as the God of Jacob, we shall not have the needed transformation. Whose God do you love—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, or the God of Jacob? While we love the enjoyment, none of us loves the dealings. God is the Triune God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Be prepared—one day you will meet Him as the God of Jacob.

God measures our environment and everything that happens to us. For example, He may let you have a little illness, but that illness is measured and will not kill you. This is similar to what God did with Job when He charged Satan not to go beyond a certain limit (Job 2:6). This is God's dealing. In the following chapters of Genesis, we do not see that Jacob enjoyed very much. Rather, wherever he went, God was there dealing with him. God seemed to say, "I am the God of Jacob. Eventually, I want to be the God of Israel. When your transformation is complete, My dealings with you will be over."

The Experience of Jacob

Being Promised to by God the First Time

None of God's dealings is without a promise. Every time we suffer a dealing there will be a promise along with it. The more dealings we suffer, the more promises we shall have. In 28:13-15 we see God's promise to Jacob. According to Jacob's experience, God's promise did not come before His dealing. The promise is not firstly that we shall be provided with food and raiment. It firstly is that we shall have the land and the seed and that we shall be a blessing to all the families of the earth. Here we see three things—the land, the seed, and the blessing. According to the consistent revelation of the Bible, the land is for the kingdom. In His creation, God created man in His own image and gave him dominion over the earth, over the land. Thus, the land is for the dominion, the kingdom. The seed is for the expression, for the spreading of the image. In 28:13 and 14 we have the same two things that are found in Genesis 1:26—image and dominion. After this, we become a blessing. Our blessing is simply Christ, for Christ becomes our blessing to others.

If we examine our experience, we shall see that whenever we suffered or had some dealing from God, we received the land and had the sense that we were in the kingdom. Furthermore, we sensed that something of God was expressed through us and was spreading out of us. This is the seed. In addition to this, we became a blessing to others, to our neighbors, relatives, friends, and everyone around us. God's promise was not only given to Jacob; in principle, it is also given to us. When we are under God's dealing, we participate in the land, the seed, and the blessing. We share in the territory and the expression of God and we become a blessing to others.

God knows our need. In verse 15 He said to Jacob, "Behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of." Here God was promising to give Jacob food and clothing and to bring him back to his father's land in peace. The people in religion know nothing about the land, the seed, and the blessing. Often when they give a testimony, they say something like this: "Praise the Lord that His presence is always with me. Recently, I took a tour of Chicago and God's presence was with me. Throughout all the years He has been giving me food, clothes, and all that I need." I have hardly ever heard a testimony in which someone said, "Praise the Lord! After God dealt with me, my territory has been enlarged. God has truly been transforming me. He is spreading His expression through me. What a blessing has followed this!"

The Experience of Jacob

Jacob's Reaction

(1) Calling the Place the House of God

Now we come to Jacob's reaction. Firstly, after waking out of his sleep, he called that place the house of God (v. 17). Where did Jacob get the concept of the house of God? Abraham did not know of this. As we have pointed out, we do not find this term before Genesis 28. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob all lived in tents. Why then did Jacob not say the tent of God but rather the house of God? Surely this is not only a dream but a revelation. Although Jacob did not actually see the house of God, he termed what he saw the house of God, saying, "This is the house of God." Certainly this came from divine revelation.

God has revealed His economy not only in clear words but also in the lives of human beings. Jacob, a man living altogether on the human level, had a dream. In that dream he saw something, and after he awoke he said, "This is the house of God." Undoubtedly, this concept of the house of God came from God Himself.

(2) Calling the Place the Gate of Heaven

Jacob also called the place where he met God the gate of heaven (v. 17). Whatever he saw there pointed to heaven. It was a place on earth, but it was joined to heaven. Hence, he called it the gate of heaven. Whenever we have a spiritual vision, we sense that we are at the gate of heaven. We are on earth, but we see and experience the things of heaven.

(3) Making the Pillow-stone a Pillar and Anointing It

Verse 18 says, "Jacob rose up early in the morning, and took the stone that he had made his pillow, and set it up for a pillar, and poured oil upon the top of it" (Heb.). How peculiar it was that Jacob set up the stone for a pillar. If I had been he, I would never have done that with the stone. What is the meaning of this? It certainly corresponds to the whole revelation of the Bible. The most striking thing here is the anointing of the stone with oil. It was sovereign that the oil was there. Where did Jacob get it? Did he, an escapee, bring it with him when he fled from home? I do not know.

According to my opinion, pouring oil upon the stone would only have caused a mess. But according to the Bible, this act is very significant. In the Bible, the stone undoubtedly signifies a transformed man, a lump of clay which has been transformed into a stone. In typology, the oil signifies the third Person of God reaching people. When God reaches you, He is the Spirit. Thus, the stone which was set up as a pillar and which had the oil poured upon it, is a symbol that the transformed man is one with the Triune God. Now the Triune God is not only in heaven but also on a transformed man and is one with this transformed man. This man is God's expression on earth. When you look at the stone, you see the oil. When you look at the transformed man standing on the earth, you see the expression of God. How did Jacob know to pour oil on the stone? Before chapter twenty-eight, there is no record of this type of action. Nevertheless, after waking up from his dream, Jacob did this.