Vain Repetition just means that repeating a single phrase many times. In Pehkey's case, it would be repeting Oh Jesus many times unless he begs to differ. I mean I do not know how you can even get the idea that it means babbling incoherently when vain repetition means useless repetition literally.

Calling upon the Name of Lord Jesus is different from mindless repetition of Oh Jesus in Pehkey's case unless he begs to differ.

Even though the entire chapter was talking about sexual immorality, that verse was specifically saying that when one is in an unacceptable state, do not let him stay anylonger as this person will contaminate the church. As for Pehkey, since his fundamentals are very unquestionable, then it is applicable. The point is that would you even listen to someone whose fundamentals are questionable even though he may get some of the points right.

Nope. It's talking about people who seems to have the appearance of serving the lord. I really do not know your obsession with law versus grace.

If Pehkey cannot answer the hard questions, he is not fit to be a bible teacher.

This post has been edited by sylar111: Oct 13 2014, 02:42 PM

Just one question. Do you think a real Christian will continue to be in sin like you describe?

For example, you stated
A dog returns to its vomit,

Are we Christians dogs? I mean if say we have the holy spirit in us. Can we be described in such a way? After all, we are now a new creation. How can we be "dogs" anymore.
Just curious.

22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
It's still about faith. But then real faith is accompanied by works. The logic is pretty simple. If say you claim that you love your gf but then your actions shows otherwise. Then do you really love your GF?

Anyway one final point on Eziekel
26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

29 Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?

So does this passage talks about a righteous person actually turning away from his righteousness or is it talking about the fairness of God in dealing with sin?

On Phillipians 2,
Note that the first part of the chapter says that
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
The thing is. We should be like Christ Jesus. Even though we have already been saved, we should continue in our good works like what Christ Jesus did. As Christ Jesus even though he was God, still did what he was meant to do. Similarly, even though we are saved, we should not take granted that we are already saved and just do nothing but we should continue to shine as Christians. That's what working out your salvation means.

Anyway.
https://www.raptureready.com/featured/ice/T...ationalism.html

Even your website is supportive of the calvinistic view.

This post has been edited by sylar111: Oct 13 2014, 07:27 PM

Haha. Looks like we have a differing view.

Because I believe in OSAS. The thing is, I believe that as Christians, our salvation has been secured. That verse was not about doing works to ensure your salvation but then to live in a way that identifies you as a Christian so that you do not spoil God's name.

Well. I never knew the top part was meant for me.

Anyway. I do realize that sometimes as Christians, we put a lot of presure on ourselves. The thing is. Sometimes, we have this false belief that we can overcome sin by our own strength.

A lot of Christians started out this way. They try to overcome their sin using their own strength. But then we know that overcoming sin using one's own strength will only lead to a speculative fall. The reason is because a person is sinful not purely because of the deads he do, but because of his own state. You see, even if a Christian do not commit adultery, but then Jesus said that just looking at a woman lustfully, you are already committing adultery. You see, sin is a state. It's not just the act of doing. The thing is, in order to really overcome sin, you need the holy spirit to remove that desire of sinning from your heart. Also, the holy spirit needs to convict you in a way that sinning is not profitable to you.

You really cannot suppress those desires using your own strength. The more you suppress, the more your desires will overcome you.
Romans
4 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Romans 5
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

For back slidding Christians, there are 2 kind.
The prodigal son. Even though it appears that he has back slidden. But the fact is that, after having back slidded, he still understands that he is a child of God. And when he lost everything, he came back to his father in a very humbled state. So, even though he back slided, but then in his heart he never forgotten about his identity.

The second one is perhaps one who even though seem to have a passion for Christ on the surface, but in actual fact, deep down, never took Christianity seriously. The reason as to why they came into Christianity was for reasons other then seeking for the truth and believing in Christ. Outwardly they may proclaim to love Jesus but then there seems to be other agenda. The truth was never entrenched into their hearts.

You see, you even stated this verse.
And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

Obviously only those who are called, can things end up good for them.

The thing is, you think that someone who seem to work really hard or seem to have strong faith are really Christians but then the thing is, if they really had the true faith, do you think they would have fallen from grace so easily?

It's so easy to identify people who at one moment seem to be passionate for Christ and then the next moment, blespheme Christ Name at the moment. Most often, those people who falls from the faith actually become worse then they started off. It shows really clearly to me that their eyes were not open in the first place because if their eyes were even once opened, they would not have treated Jesus in such a way. Even if they had "fallen" away, they would still have some respect for our Christ.

This post has been edited by sylar111: Oct 13 2014, 11:27 PM

Did you know that even in prophecy, Judas was actually the one who was prophesized to betray Jesus?
12 Then I said to them, “If it is agreeable to you, give me my wages; and if not, refrain.” So they weighed out for my wages thirty pieces of silver.

13 And the Lord said to me, “Throw it to the potter”—that princely price they set on me. So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the Lord for the potter. 14 Then I cut in two my other staff, Bonds, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.

He was always a "questionable" disciple.
4 Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, which should betray him,

5 Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor?

6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.

The main reason why Judas Iscariot was attracted to Jesus Christ was because he thought Jesus Christ was going to be the actual King at that time, and when Jesus Christ achieves that, he will benefit from that. When he realizes that Jesus was not going to be the king he imagine, he became very dissapointed. You see, he always had an ulterior motive.

Nope. The bible clearly said that Satan entered him just before he betrayed Christ. But then, he never had a pure heart in the first place.

This post has been edited by sylar111: Oct 13 2014, 11:19 PM

Well, even the disciples did not know the real purpose of what Jesus was here for.
They saw Jesus as a future King that will liberate the Jews from Rome.

For example
35 Then James and John, the sons of Zebedee, came to Him, saying, “Teacher, we want You to do for us whatever we ask.”

36 And He said to them, “What do you want Me to do for you?”

37 They said to Him, “Grant us that we may sit, one on Your right hand and the other on Your left, in Your glory.”

When Jesus was about to be crucified,
Mark 8
31 And He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. 32 He spoke this word openly. Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him. 33 But when He had turned around and looked at His disciples, He rebuked Peter, saying, “Get behind Me, Satan! For you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”

Peter Rebuked him because he could not imagine that Jesus will end up this way. His assumption has always been that Jesus was supposed to come down as an actual King.

I do not think that at the time when Jesus was here, the disciples had the holy spirit in them because Jesus clearly said that He will send the comforter after He departs. The fact is that because Jesus was with them, he somehow took some of the role of the holy spirit. For example, he protected Peter from Satan.
Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat, but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail;

This post has been edited by sylar111: Oct 14 2014, 01:14 PM

Your obsession with Law and Grace really amaze me.

All of your interpretations seem to be based on this.
In fact, so obsessed is your view on Law and Grace that you are willing to attack anyone who differs with you in this aspect.

The phrase which refers to peter as a stone is
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
The rock talks about Christ.

Most likely Peter(Small stone) talks about him as part of the body of Christ and also perheps he will play an important role as a leader since he recognized Christ.

There is nothing that states that Peter was anyhow related to law or legalism. In fact, just looking at the character of Peter, you will find that he tends to be a little bit reckless. Which is very different from legalism. Recklessness is generally the opposite to legalism.

Yes, it was being revealed to Peter that Jesus was the Christ. But then for most jews at that time, their understanding of Christ is one that comes in and save them from the oppression of Rome. What Jesus was narrating was different from the understanding of Peter and most of the disciples out there.

The verse after that.
24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Shows very clearly shows that being Christ followers now but espacially during that time was not going to be easy. It's not about the physical kingdom. It's about a future kingdom.

Peter was just being reckless when he interrupted Jesus because he did not understand the purpose of Christ first coming
There are many prophecies that actually states that the Messiah will come and establish a Kingdom in Israel. But that will be fulfilled in the second coming.
The Jews were awaiting for such a messiah.

You are resorting to symbolism to over emphasize your theology. That's the wrong approach to things.

This post has been edited by sylar111: Oct 14 2014, 03:37 PM

This is the Jewish expectations of the Messiah

http://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm

Well, it does not sound like obedience to me.

It's being over passionate. I really do not know how you can even come out with the idea that he was legalistic.

That verse you are talking about was not talking about obedience. It was talking about forsaking Christ. Jesus was prophesizing that the disciples will leave him on the day he was crucified.
Peter being his usual passionate self said he will not forsake Christ.

I do not know how you can even interpret that verse from a legalistic view. You really need to take off your "legalistic" spectacles.

I believe that God will restore the Kingdom of Israel.

Unfortunately most Christians do not believe that.

Yes and No.

It shows that God is in the midst of fulfilling His promises.
But the Israel that is established is still in apostasy.

Well I agree that Jesus did show some favour towards John.
Maybe it's just a way of demonstrating His Grace towards him.

Nope. Nowhere in the Gospel did Peter display any sense of legalism.

Actually, I believe that Jesus will restore the actual Kingdom of Israel.

Well, if you read what I say careful, I was saying that God will restore Israel in the future.

The current Israel is still in an apostate state but then what I believe is that in the future, when Christ comes,

He will establish his Kingdom around the current Israel.

Not really.
We are the spiritual Jews. But when Paul talks about Israel, he is talking about the actual Israel.
That's my understanding.

This is nothing to do with whether a person is single or not.

The thing is that Paul was also single. He would have been the ideal caregroup leader if he was still around

I can also argue that when you have a family, more likely you will not care about others because there is an excuse that you are too busy with your family.

In this case, its not because the person is single. It's because they were never sympathetic in the first place. Tell me, if say this same person has a wife, would he be sympathetic because even then he would not understand what is it like for a couple not to have kids. It would be much worse because since they are busy, all they want to do is just finish the caregroup meeting.

Most CG leaders do not have sympathy for others. I mean after all, this is what the world is like right? People on the surface could seem nice to you but then when things go wrong, they just run away. Even though as Christians we understand that this is the wrong approach to things but then tell me, do you seriously think everyone who gets into leadership position really has a Christian Heart?

I think joining CG is the wrong idea in the first place. Not saying that we should not have bible study. But then common sense would tell you that most likely members in the CG would not be able to relate to each other and what happens in a CG generally is fake concern because the thing is most of the people in the CG do not even know you personally. I mean forcing a group of random people to bond together is the wrong idea in the first place .It would be a better idea to bond well with a few Christian friends which you can trust and rely on.

This post has been edited by sylar111: Oct 15 2014, 04:06 AM

My view has always been that eventually God will fulfil all His promises towards the Jews.
When Israel returns to God, I think the focus will be more towards his natural people.

The thing is. When Jesus set his throne on Earth, I would imagine that Israel will be filled up with mostly Jews at that time.

Also when Paul wrote Rome, he clearly seperated between the Jews and the Gentiles and also highlighted the promises that God will fulfil to the Jews.

The thing is. If say you were the Jews and you happen to read the old testament. What happen is that you would most likely be able to relate to all of the curses which God has proclaimed on you.
But then, the question here is this.

What about all of the promises? Do you think it would be consistent that those promises that were meant for them are now meant for the church in general?

Anyway

12 As many as desire to make a [q]fair show in the [r]flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised, only because they would not suffer persecution for the [s]cross of Christ.
13 For they themselves which are circumcised keep not the Law, but desire to have you circumcised, that they might rejoice in [t]your flesh.
14 [u]But God forbid that I should [v]rejoice, but in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, whereby the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace shall be upon them, and mercy, and upon the [w]Israel of God.

Notice that the them here refers to the Jews.
So therefore Israel Of God must also be related to them



25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

This covenant is it to the spiritual Israel or to the actual Israel.
The answer is pretty obvious.

This post has been edited by sylar111: Oct 15 2014, 06:01 PM

edited.

This post has been edited by sylar111: Oct 15 2014, 06:31 PM

The thing is General Fahmy,
if you seriously think that leaders can be trusted, you are really wrong.
Espacially in this day and age where integrity does not mean anything anymore.

Going to another church will not change a thing. The fact is that in CG, most of the people are going to be cold to you anyway.
Problem with church nowadays is that it is being managed in a more corperate sense whereby numbers seem to be important rather then actually showing love to your brothers and sisters.
The purpose of CG is most likely just to show that the leaders are capable and use it to climb the ladder in the church.

Yes, the church is not supposed to be this way but then we are living at fallen times whereby appearance is more important then everything else.
Actually people in the church can be worse then the people outside because
1)They think they are special
2)They are too "busy"
3)Since you are not going to "benefit" them, then there is no reason for them to waste their time with you except maybe just say a hello just to show that they are "christians"

You see General Fahmy.
Do you ever see people questioning church leaders on their doctrine? No. Why? Because questioning church leaders will lead most likely to that person becoming an outcast. You see, after all the impression is once you question doctrine, you do not trust the church anymore or you are seen as a trouble maker. So opportunities will not be given to you anymore. That should not be the way because we should speak against all inconsistencies in the church but unfortunately, this is how the world and the church works today.

Putting your trust in man will always lead into dissapointment espcially in today's period where integrity means zero.

Also remember the pharaisees even though they had the law, were the worst kind of people out there.

I think since your name is about to get slandered, you should go to another church. But then don expect the situation to change.

Anyway. Christian Friends do not need to come from the church nowadays. Even on facebook pages, you can find christians who are sincere and loves God deeply.

This post has been edited by sylar111: Oct 15 2014, 06:45 PM