Hi all,

I wish to share my view on landed properties with strata title.

Ecobotanic, for example, is a housing project selling landed properties with strata title. If you read about this project, you may find everything was sold out during its balloting day in September 2013. But if you dig deeper, only 285 units were sold. The total units are 624. And if I am not mistaken, bumi-lots are about 50 units. The rest is believed to be purchased by insiders (the developer and its staff).

Let's do the maths:

624 (total units) - 285 (sold to public) - 50 (bumi lots) = 289 (the developer and its staff)

So, about half is taken by the developer's side. This means they have the power to dominate Joint Management meetings. They can elect some of them to be committee members. They can retain their company to be the maintenance provider. They can later set high maintenance fees. The staffs who purchased houses would not mind paying extra since the company will continue making money and perhaps they will get a higher pay and bonus.

If you refuse to pay the maintenance fee, you can be fined and jailed. They can also sell your movable properties (like tv, fridge or car) to recover the outstanding debt.

Think twice if you plan to buy landed properties with strata title!

This post has been edited by UnderTheSun: Apr 5 2014, 06:48 AM

ain't the same with condo/ apartment if developer keeps a handful of units?

So far so good for me. Even strata shops oso no such prob for me. Dun worry too much la.

Yup, it is the same. But in case of landed properties, you have a choice to buy either strata title or torrens (individual) title.

When buying strata title, we have to keep an eye on what the developer is doing. In the situation explained earlier, we have to be wary of EcoWorld who builds EcoBotanic (landed strata) and EkoSky (condo).

This post has been edited by UnderTheSun: Apr 5 2014, 07:36 AM

If we want to flip, it should not be much problem. Basically, the concern will be transferred to the buyer.

If we want to let, we will have to embed the maintenance charge with the rental rate. Our rental rate will be higher than others. Hence, less attractive.

If we want to stay, aiyoo.. maintenance headache

How much is the maintenance charge? Does it include a gym, and well manicured gardens and parks? Also by your account, those insiders want to keep the property meh? more places to goreng yoh in sunway iskandar perhaps>

Condo, service apt, soho etc also having same scenario where units are snapped up by staff n insiders.. wat is so disadvantage about strata landed?

This are usually flippers.. if they dont flip, they will either rent out or stay.. what is the advantage to them for increasing maintenence? So that they dont have to pay?

First of all, the reason why many JMB face shortages of funds are because of people like you. Always skeptical that JMB gasak money lah, increase fees lah. Please la, I welcome all increases in management fees. In fact, I worry they do not increase enough. Few hundred extra is nothing compared to the headache of less well maintained properties because of shortage of funds. High fees = well maintained properties = easy to sell, easy to rent = high market value of your properties! Don't fret over small money.

this i agree

As I said earlier, some of them maybe flippers. Flippers will not worry about the maintenance problem.

But some insiders want to dominate Management Committee. With this domination, they can choose the contractors to maintain the landscape, etc. They will choose the same developer or its related company. The developer will expand its business from developing property to maintaining property. As business expands, income increase.

As a result, the staffs and the management will be able to enjoy salary increment and bonuses. Since they are major chunk of the community, all they have to do is collude during Joint Management / Management Corporation meeting. Some of them will forward proposals and the rest will support. They will also elect their people as committee members. This is the disadvantage when major chunk of units are purchased by insiders (consist of staffs and the management of development company).

If you go to MAPEX which is being held at Midvalley Megamall today or tomorrow, you can ask EcoWorld about the maintenance fee. They will say they plan to charge about RM400 monthly for landed strata and condo.

Bro, everything come with a fee. If u think the facilities and security are not a must, why buy strata title prop at the first place? Dont forget about strata title act too.

Don't buy landed with strata title if can't afford pay for maintenance. It is your decision. Once decision had made, then don't complaint MUCH here and there. No one force you buy.

Boss I dun think the insiders wanna pay high maintenance fee if they r holding or living in. My current full GNG onli charge 0.20 psf. Reasonable or too high har???

0.20 is reasonable and cheaper compared the one I bought in semenyih(hearsay 0.30psf).

This post has been edited by maodi: Apr 5 2014, 10:27 AM

i think it's cheap...

And I dun c them raising the bar for charges!!!

I guess its all depend on the facility gua. My area has all basic facility except for tennis courts n gym room. Nice jogging track but mini size.

Developers are divided into two: incompetent and competent. Among the competent developers, there are sincere ones and cunning ones.

Horizon Hills in Nusajaya is developed by a sincere developer. They only charge between RM100 to RM150 for security and maintenance. Clubhouse is optional with an additional fee of RM100. Golf membership is also optional. Yet the landscape beautiful, neat and well-maintained. The property value is superb.

We need to pay adequate maintenance and security fee, not too low and not too high. Paying too high for maintenance and security fee reflects inefficient spending of community money.

Strata Title Act (Act 757) requires the participation of developer even after the property has been delivered. The owners are not at liberty to choose maintenance contractors which offer best value for money. This is a flaw of the Act. The Act was drafted by mainly consulting the developers, not owners of properties.

You worry too much .~

'The staffs who purchased houses would not mind paying extra since the company will continue making money and perhaps they will get a higher pay and bonus.'

Laughing until my teeth drop when read this statement...lol!

exactly....if i were the staff, i will bising also lah...what you think i own the company meh....

Whether owned by developer or staff, its money invested. No one will want to do something that can jeopardize their own investment.

Though I agree with u about the possibility of manipulation. Just need to attend all JMB meeting and make noise lah. Ok wan....dun worry.

Yes, this is my point. Becareful when choosing a property! If not careful, you may suffer later by deceitful developers.

But why only landed with strata title face this issue? condo no issue?

Strata title landed is the trends for the future.

If that is your worry, perhaps u can only go for the individual title landed. That is the only way to go!

Same advice. Careful when choosing one. Keep an eye of the developer. Last time, condos have lots of issues. For landed, you will have more rights owning an individual title than owning strata title. But if choose the one with strata title, becareful.

This post has been edited by UnderTheSun: Apr 5 2014, 11:19 AM

I agree with this bro.
If paying extra bucks but can rent and sell at a better price then why not?
I dun even mind to pay 1K+ on maintenance fee if there are plenty of nice landscape at living area.

Ya me too. My bigger worry would be irrationally stingy neighbours and not so much the fee itself

Horizon Hill strata or individual?

I think you could confuse what is the difference btw individual title landed and strata title landed.

Are u one of the EcoBotanic buyer?

My advise is, buy any property with indv or strata title, we also need to becareful. For most types, I much prefer stratified landed compare to individual title due to DMC and proper security. If u have no confident of the developer capability, facilities, t&c, dmc ..., just skip.

Boss. Individual title.

i think i can see where this thread is heading to...

Thanks Chris kor.. I oso skeptical when he/she compare it with Horizon Hill..

@UnderTheSun, y compare Horizon Hill with this Ecobotanic as the title are different? And saying HH charge lower is more sincere is totally nonsense since they are individual at the 1st place..

Despite being gated and guarded, Horizon Hills offers individual title. They also have anti-climb fences and security cameras. The value is much higher than EcoBotanic.

Buying landed strata title does not mean you will have a higher value than landed individual title. Paying higher maintenance fee does not mean you will have a greater value than paying moderate maintenance fee.

I give you one LIKE..

HH is called F&G .. not full G&G.. Security makes a big difference...

This post has been edited by twincharger07: Apr 5 2014, 11:57 AM

If you wanna know where this thread is heading to, read the topic again

ummm...boss, the reason why landed strata came about was to make the living environment more organised and systematic in the neighbourhood. i definitely wouldnt wanna live next to a neighbour which decides to paint his house green and install huge cast iron grilles or do something atrocious in which i cant do anything about.

in terms of value...well, i dont see props in dpc being sold at a lower price compared to say spk or bu, do u?

HH is called G&G Neighbourhood while EcoBotanic is called G&G Community. Both charge maintenance and security fee. You can compare which one has reasonable charges given the security and maintenance it offers.

This post has been edited by UnderTheSun: Apr 5 2014, 12:23 PM

This thread will eventually be called the top ten reasons why HH is the best

happy to pay more money and is HOPING more bonus...paying is confirm but bonus is not confirm...how ridiculous to think like that?

Yeah. What I am saying is buying landed strata does not guarantee a higher value than buying landed individual. And vice versa. We have to do research before buying.

I believe many of you are smart people. Let's relook at the situation. Under Strata Title Act, they have to maintain corridors, facilities, etc. They do not maintain whatever inside your house. But why are they charging based on per square foot (psf) of your house? By right, they should charge based on per square foot (psf) of total corridors, facility areas, etc. And divide it equally. Those are common facilities.

So, I would say 0.20 psf is an unreasonable method of calculation. We are so used to it that we fail to see a sensible method of calculation.

Maybe you could voice it out during the JMB meeting.

This post has been edited by UnderTheSun: Apr 5 2014, 12:21 PM

errrrr, how come u think like that? if u own 1200sqft house and your neighbor's house is 2200 sqft and share same facilities, do u mind u pay same amount with your neighbor? later either one will tak puas hati...

They are maintaining the common access and facilities. Nothing to do with whatever inside your house. Whether you have large or small living room, they do not go inside your house and mop the floor.

in other words poor people should pay the same tax rate as rich people

I totally disagree... strata title is fully enforce by law, outsiders are restricted to enter..

Individual title is not fully enforce by any strata act.. outsiders by law is allow to enter without permission.. boom gate is merely for security checking..

Strata housing area can be organized on security restrictions and indivudual, no..

Not sure about tax. But 0.20 psf for strata maintenance fee is an unreasonable calculation to me.

do you come accross any strata title prop charge maintenance base on door, not sqf?

I think u dont understand how it works at all..
Larger units charge with higher maintenance fee with the assumption bigger units have more ppl staying in thus more headcount to use the common facilities per unit.. u may argue small unit can hav more ppl or large unit only 1 person, but that is the closest assumption u can get..

Not so far. Like I said, we are so used to it that we fail to apply a sensible calculation method.

Then, you expect the more person in the house, the higher household income it has? How about a family with 3 to 4 children? Do the children have an income?

Surely, maintenance has nothing to do with your living room or bedroom space.

This post has been edited by UnderTheSun: Apr 5 2014, 12:57 PM

just about what i am going to say!!!

larger unit = more people = use facilities more = pay more

although it may not necessarily be true that larger units = more people but that's how it works...

i live in condo and i only use the lift...seldom use swimming pool, gym, never use sauna, badminton court, playground etc....am I entitled to cheaper maintenance fee?


TS...are you one of those owners with larger units but refused to pay more than owners with smaller units??
Haiyo, if like that buy smaller unit loh, problem settled...

His logic doesnt make sense at all...

Yeah. Club facilities should be optional and not included in the maintenance fee.

Your method of calculation is based on assumption. Hence, subject to argument. But everyone has his own opinion.

The purpose of this thread is to caution potential buyers on landed properties that come with strata title. No harm for potential buyers to consider. Unless a person is from the related company or is a sales agent or has vested interest in the sale of such properties, he or she shall not feel threatened.

This post has been edited by UnderTheSun: Apr 5 2014, 01:14 PM

I think the obvious answer is dun buy strata prop. Prob solved.

This post has been edited by ManutdGiggs: Apr 5 2014, 01:17 PM

Some individual titled properties also need to pay maintenance. They don't follow strata laws but sign a deed of mutual covenant or DMC

This post has been edited by idoblu: Apr 5 2014, 01:41 PM

Gosh.. what does it do with income..
You still dont get the point after so many ppl gav u thesame explanation. Nvm.. at least the rest are at the same tune with me...

Still don't get wat kind of caution u r giving

Then no choice. Wat bout kampung houses. Sure no such headache.

If signed the DMC but still dun want to pay. How ??

If optional, I can bet not many people want to pay for the club house.

No money to maintain the clubhouse, clubhouse facilities surely deteoriating fast, swimming pool no maintain, fungus grows etc.

So, the argument for club facilities should be made optional doesn't make sense.
The logic of the argument is flaw to start with.

The optional of club house only suitable for GnG with individual title.

Landed property with strata title vs individual title has both advantage and disadvantage.

Individual title.
No obligation for maintenance fee.
But if want to have security to patrol, safeguard the housing area, then it depends on willingness of neighborhood to contribute to pay for the expenses for it.
If there is people don't want to pay for it, basically, no law can be enforced on them. So you may have awkward situation if some people do not want to cooperate.

But with strata title one, the unit owner is governed by strata title act, that unit owner is obliged to pay the maintenance fee under the strata title act, so action can be imposed on those refuse to pay maintenance as compared to individual title one.

With G&G and clubhouse facilities are features that most wanted by property owner nowadays, a maintenance fund is a must to keep the property in good shape, this is inevitable.
So in this case, strata title act provides the platform for it.

Plus 1

G&G with individual title can be very difficult to manage.
As we know, not everyone may cooperate to contribute to the maintenance fund.

Even in this topic, there is forumer question the rate of maintenance fee based on size of unit.
(although it looks reasonable and logic for most, some also question about it), see whatever kind of people also have in this world.

You can't make optional for any fee for any facilities,
If want to have clubhouse, then everyone must contribute.
or no clubhouse at all.

Only yes or no, cannot be optional, it doesn't work.

Agreed.

It may not useful at all, when there is dispute of it.

The article explained well the awkward situation that may faced by individual title on settting G&G community using DMC.
http://www.malaysianbar.org.my/conveyancin...ies_part_2.html

Plus1. At least some ppl here get understand the proper GnG should be strata title .

yeah I also thought about how they will enforce subsale purchaser to sign a new DMC. I did asked my friend when he bought two subsale units, and he said he had to sign DMC. I am sure he can refuse to sign.

our place here is individual title with club house facilities. I dont use any of the facilities but I still pay. those who refuse to pay, please dont buy these type of properties and trouble the rest of the community. I heard that only a few G&G props in Malaysia is with individual title. Previously G&G laws not fully developed yet I suppose

Anyway, either DMC or Strata laws, both also Malaysians refuse to abide by. Malaysians are still not use to living in a community.

This post has been edited by idoblu: Apr 5 2014, 05:00 PM

What we have here is a mindset issue. You buy knowing what you get and are responsible for as an owner. But if you buy knowing all that but still insist on challenging the responsibility, perhaps its better to seek a property elsewhere.

Useless, not so many ppl will follow.
Tis is fact.

A lot of owner doesn't realise that by refusing to pay the maintenance fee, one is actually "destroying" the value of property one owned over the long term.

Who want to buy million plus G&G landed property with clubhouse swimming pool growing fungus, no security (no money to pay, hence security also "cabut"), grass growing common area etc.

Living in a strata property (be it G&G landed or highrise), you need to treat it as living in a community instead selfish way.
Everyone must cooperate not only in term of paying maintenance fee, but also in term of follow the house rules made, by then with cooperation of abide to house rules, only then can make the property into a pleasant one living space with good security.

It depends, there are fairly well run MC around as far as I knew, while there are also plenty poorly run as well.

I personally knew 2 properties (mid-to high end one) with high collection rate >90~95%, management fee surplus + sinking fund rack up million plus with property fairly well maintained across.

The issue of maintenance fee is more severe with low cost highrise.
So we need a stricter rule to ensure maintenance fee is paid on time.
At the moment, the strata title act is not strict enough to punish defaulter of maintenance fee hence people take for granted.

As to change the mindset, almost near impossible, hence the only way to improve situation is through stricter strata act, empower MC or COB to enforce the rules.

well said
want to be my neighbor?

and its not only about paying the maintenance fee, simple everyday things like dont hang your clothes out or dont litter also difficult to follow

thats why those high class new york apartments, even if you are a celebrity also have to go through a vetting process by a panel of the residents

This post has been edited by idoblu: Apr 5 2014, 05:36 PM

Wat to do??? Human being mah. If u dun mind the maintenance fee then buy strata title lor.
Ppl can drive BMW oso refuse pay 150/ mth. Their mindset is like that. Apa boleh buat?? Kanasai lor

90 % to 95% collection. If under individual title. Very very very good

Why talking too much ? He open this thread JUST to shoot Ecoworld n The ecobotanic project. Most of the points are funny !

Izzit?? Din read whole posts.

If i am not wrong.... I know of some people who bought houses in the land of the FREE. *USA. Also have to pay to maintain their grass in the front lawn... if not overgrown... you can get evicted and house sold.

Then again, the issue should be about proper accounting and management of the funds collected.

Strata or individual... that is just the difference between legal obligation, and skirting the community responsibility.

Plus- cannot simply change facade and change the way a neat row of house look.

BTW- when TS says HH is good... there are also people who feel that staying close to golf course that uses herbicides to kill weeds... very odd yoh. Good luck TS drinking coffee in your compound.


Also, TS, can you also post the pricing for house in EB and HH for comparing sake.




Personally, I would prefer gated community without guards. If want guards, employ Gurkah or Android machines.

Additional facilities- that should be known from the start. If dont want such facilities, then dont buy. Feedback to developers that consumers only want to buy houses without facilities.

Anyway, making use of the facilities should be good healthy lifestyle... why reject so much.


Additional thoughts: BTW those people so rich buy the property. HH or EB/EW... those not your common fellows. I am sure they will challenge the management kau kau if they detect anything mischievious. The wolf among the wolves.

This post has been edited by skywardsword: Apr 5 2014, 06:23 PM

Good discussion here.

To those who plan to buy a property with strata title (whether condo or landed strata), think twice if you feel you cannot cope with maintenance fee that will increase from time to time. Otherwise, you see people bashing at you for not being able to pay the maintenance fee, like some of them here.

That is my point. Becareful in chosing property with strata. Read Strata Title Act first! The developer can sue you in court. You can be fined or even jailed. On top of that, they can sell your car or tv or fridge or other moveable properties to recover the outstanding payment.

Remember. Maintenance are due monthly even after you finished paying the loan. And even when you are dying. There is no waiver under Strata Title Act.

This maintenance fee is not set by you. It is set by the Joint Management Committee in which the developer is a member. You may say the amount is high, but they may say the amount is reasonable. In the end, you have to listen to them and pay the amount. So, before you buy, think carefully. Like some people here say, if you think you cannot cope with it, choose a property with an individual title.

Best of luck in finding your home sweet home!

Some people already have club membership elsewhere. For example, one may have a golf membership which includes all other club facilities. So, having dual facilities will be a redundance.

u tot the developer only want to do one time biz.

Just a question, if high rise dont pay the fee, management can block water or block card access. What about landed strata? Also same?

No, I don't think they want to do one time business. That is why they are using strata title. Utilizing provisions under the Act, they will have another business which is property maintenance.

They do not have the right to block your water supply. It is against the law. Nowhere in strata title act mentions the right to block utilities. If they do so, you can sue them. JMC is a body that can sue and can be sued.

You mean Strata Title act - all the house owners cannot vote to reduce price of maintenance fee or evict Committee in charge? so imba one? At the end of the day, people buy house to stay in it and to invest. Who would buy house to lose money one....

anyhow, your advise is good. If cannot upkeep maintenance dont think about GG ect ect ect. Stay in Singapore HDB safe and cheap.

Owh cannot ah? Then the lawyer who I signed snp with cannot use la. I asked her this question, she said management have the right to so.

u think too much. Doing biz cant do tis kind tactic. U tot developer can make big money from the maintenance fee meh? Big money is from sell more houses, build more project lar.
U tot they can simply increase without justification ?.

Ask her where in the Act says so. Also, ask her to find out whether it is an offense to disrupt someone's water supply. If she cannot defend what she says, ask her to give you a kiss. I bet you will get it

You have to pay maintenance fee every month whether you are on holiday or sick at hospital. If you die, your spouse or son or daughter who inherits the property has to continue paying. If not you can be sued. You cannot hide because you stay there. They can sell your car or tv to recover money. It is legal. Don't you think it is a good business?

Building more projects is good when there is an adequate demand. Guess what is the occupancy rate in hartamas/mont kiara area? Less than half. Lots of empty units.

This post has been edited by UnderTheSun: Apr 5 2014, 10:02 PM

Wat r y talking about? Maintenance fee or Wat?

why buy house, pay for guards and keep the house empty?....

The maintenance fee will be stored under sinking fund. Sinking fund will used to pay securities, facilities maintenance, painting of the building, etc - some of which will done by the developer.

Some units are unsold, some speculators failed to get tenants. A sign of bubbling property market.

so when crash... swooop in to buy....

Got it. For sure u oso won't pay maintenance fee even stay in GnG under individual title.