Hi all,

I'm looking to purchase a Belkin Surge Protector to connect my TV, PS4, Sound bar and Hypp Tv.
However, unlike the conventional power strip that can be baught from Tesco, etc, the Belkin does not come with switches beside each plug.
How do I turn off devices that are not in use? For example, during a gaming session, I do not want my Hypp Tv to be switched on or even be on standby mode which still consumes power.

Looking forward to your response.



This post has been edited by Papercut117: Feb 17 2014, 12:41 AM

Plug it out.

Find something like this. http://dx.com/p/uk-131gt-13a-3-way-fused-t...-100v-240v-9194

Just unplug the plugs, thats what i do

I do not have good experience with this brand of surge protector way back during Streamyx time.
The RJ11 (Phoneline) socket are completely useless to block surge.

Not sure about the electrical 3-pin point socket though, but then again usually if your house has a good fuse then it would be safe as the surge already been blocked right at the main fuse.

p/s: I had the 4-Way (Home Series) ones, not sure about Gold Series though.

Using it for many yrs. Have been change for 2x and claim for faulty modem. Due to can't protect it. All is complete free. My home network run 7/11. So I would said this pretty reliable and good solution.

Had mine blown once, and it destroy all the equipment it suppose to protect behind. After that I moved to Cal-lab, and never need to replace my equipment again, only replace the cal-lab.

meaning ur PC and other things are protected?
good for u then.

I fried my mobo atleast twice, and cant claim warranty due to my pc is 2nd hand (cant produce receipt).

Yea.. after atleast twice kena already fedup. changed to Power Logic AVR kena lightning once but my hardwares are protected. Just replace the fuse in the AVR

So, Belkin is not that reliable?
What brand would you guys suggest that I use? I intend to place it behind my TV cabinet and I feel that the Power Logic AVR is too big and bulky.

Also, can I use surge protectors bought from the USA?

This post has been edited by Papercut117: Feb 18 2014, 04:38 AM

Maybe look at cal-lab.

I also claim warranty twice from belkin. Their warranty is quite reliable if you have all the receipts, but no they do not fully protect your equipment.

I have NAS, modem router etc running 24hr, 365day. The risk is very high. I cannot afford to let the equipment spoil and loose the important data.

So I need something that can guarantee my equipment don't spoil by lightning. But that is impossible. So the 2nd best is, at least I don't loose my money to replace expensive equipment. Belkin offer warranty at least.

So far for 6yrs, change 2x and claim without any question ask. With this long period record proof, I would said this is the solution for me.

Dont use Belkin Surge Master for starters.
Anyway you are on Unifi now right? So u actually dont need lightning protector coz Unifi is using Fiber.
U just need to worry ur house electrical load too high will cause trip. IMO if having alteast 3 air-cond turn on at the same thing must convert to 3-phase wiring already.

I forget what is the name for the belkin. The 1 attach to the NAS and others is similar to the TS picture. Have another 1 double the socket amount is attach to my Audio/video equipment. The surge lightning not just travel at the phone line. It can come from the electrical line and the earth line too. It can KFC anything associated with electrical. Even I kena before KFC my basic standing fan.

I m using maxis line. No fiber. Last time kena is from the phone line and KFC the modem router.

I m not worried about the electrical load. My household consumption way below the max amp permitted. Even if overload, is doesn't cause anything to the equipment that protected. Oh forget, have a UPS to backup the NAS also.

Yeap it can, but very very rare, and usually impossible if u living in high rise building.
As mentioned, the house fuse box will be adequate already. IMO its better to get AVR (Auto Voltage Regulator) for equipments to make sure the electric voltage is steady.

The fuse box doesn't protect the sensitive equipment and surge. It is only basic protection.

I have been using AVR since 14yrs ago. And all my 3set of AVR spoil already. Didn't replace back since the voltage didn't give much problem to me. Unless your housing area is still new.

Most of the equipment with a reasonable price or higher have a wide range of operate voltage. Unless you get the cheap equipment. Even buying an adaptor or power supply, check the spec if it can handle wide range of voltage.

Use cal lab. Ligjtning strike 7 times in a year. All equipment survives without a scratch.

I was informed that if you chose to claim warranty on the electrical items, you cannot claim the Belkin Surge Protector. You have to surrender the faulty Belkin Surge Protector.
If you don't claim the electrical items, then they will exchange a new Belkin Surge Protector (same model) for you.

Is the T&C same as above?

Wow, lots of mixed responses. I don't have much knowledge about surge protectors, AVRs, etc. Hope you can point me in the right direction.

Most of you guys are talking about AVR and Cal-lab. How different are these things compared to Belkin surge protectors? It doesnt bother me if these things get fried if there is a surge, as long as my devices are protected. Belkin offers insurance for all my devices, what about other brands that you've mentioned? Do I need proof of purchase of my devices if I want to claim insurance for my devices?

FYI, I live in an apartment, if that makes any difference to the situation?

Last time they replace the Belkin Surge Protector on the spot, but the cheque for claim of my fried LAN card was received months after.

AVR and cal-lab is 2 different kind of thing.

AVR is Auto voltage regulator which use to stabilize the voltage in order not to let it fluctuated too much. Example if you house voltage incoming is 200V-260V. That is fluctuated a lot. So the AVR will stabilize it at 230V +-5%. No matter what the incoming voltage figure.

Cal-lab is same as belkin - Surge protector. It main purpose is to protect any surge like lightning from your equipment. Cal-lab have a better protection than belkin. But beikin have warranty coverage to your equipment. So it is like chicken and egg to choose.

For belkin equipment claim, you need receipt. But their main priority is repair your equipment first if it expensive. If unable to repair, than pay back to you according to market price. Not your buying price. For the belkin surge protector 1 to 1 exchange. You can claim it unlimited of time.

There is many other brand and non brand in the market too. Depend on your wallet.

When was that?

Last year when I went there to make a claim, I was informed that if you chose to claim warranty on the electrical items, you cannot claim the Belkin Surge Protector. You have to surrender the faulty Belkin Surge Protector.
If you don't claim the electrical items, then they will exchange a new Belkin Surge Protector (same model) for you.

Maybe too many people claims already.

Claiming is one, but the time spend to reconfigure the IT equipment in original running conditions is a hassle. Imagine you have a nas storage and it fry the broad and storage.

Cal-lab operate different from most of the surge protector, cal-lab isolate it. That is when lightnings hit, the cal-lab box 99% is fried and leaving behind the equipment safe.

New T&C?

So which 1 you take?

so how you guys configure your cal-lab?

mains> cal-lab> avr> strip sockets > equipments ??

I took the Surge Protector (mine got 8 sockets). The RJ11 koyak.
My router still got warranty. Just need to buy a used ADSL modem for RM20.

For Cal-Lab, once kena hit, must buy a new one?
How much is one unit?

off topic.

possible to used cal-lap isolator with tacima power conditioner?

This post has been edited by bad2928: Feb 19 2014, 02:15 PM

Few years ago, I went to their warehouse somewhere in Taman Desa IIRC. Got the info from some blog.... And yes, they paid the market value for the damage equipment, not the price you paid.

The thing about claiming the Belkin insurance is that it only covers the replacement cost of the damaged items. Doesn't compensate you for the inconvenience and time and effort to buy the items and setup again. Nor does it cover loss of data (e.g. if your HDD is fried).

So, I prefer if the surge protector actually protects the equipment. The insurance is of secondary value. Anyway, that's why I'm using Cal Lab too

They changed the T&C already.
Last year they told me cannot claim the Surge Protector and the electrical items.
Either claim the Surge Protector or the electrical items.
If claim the electrical items, they will take back the Surge Protector. You need to buy a new Surge Protector.

Thanks for your explanation. I'm gonna go read up more on these things.
I live in an apartment, does this change anything? Lightning strikes especially?

It doesn't have any different if you live in apartment or house. It strike anything that connect with wire to your equipment.

I'm looking for a power strip with individual switches as well. Somehow the good ones don't have switches
This I'm quite interested - the Belkin Conserve which comes with a remote switch to power down certain outlets.

http://www.belkin.com/uk/F7C01008-Belkin/p/P-F7C01008/

But can't find it here.

I have two units of the Belkin 8 socket surge master. Haven't experience any surge yet but two of the outlets are experiencing some contact problems. Can't get power unless you wiggle the plug. In the end don't dare to use those two outlets for fear of arching

Pay RM25 to change another set.

Look like a good deal. Where to buy this Cal-Lab and where to claim (in the event lightning hit).

You can search here too, someone in lowyat selling. I got mine in Ace H/W

So many replies discuss completely different and unrelated anomalies. As if some magic box will solve all. As if a recommendation without numbers can be honest.

For example, normal voltage for electronics is even when incandescent bulbs dim to 50% intensity. How often are your bulbs dimming that much? Why then do so many recommend AVR or UPS for low voltage? Advertising and hearsay says so - subjectively. Well, here is a relevant number. How often are your bulbs dimming that much? Zero times? Then best AVR is standard inside all electronics.

How many joules does that Cal-Lab or Belkin absorb? A thousand? Destructive surges are hundreds of thousands of joules. What will the Belkin et al protect from? Surges that are already made irrelevant by existing protection.

One concern is a rare transient that can overwhelm existing protection inside appliances. What will absorb hundreds of thosuands of joules? What makes even direct lightning strikes irrelevant? Earth ground.

A lightning strike far down the street is a direct strike incoming to all appliances. Are all appliances damaged? Of course not. For reasons taught in elementary school science. To have damage means a current must be incoming on one path. And simultaneously outgoing to earth on another path. What is damaged? An appliance that best connects a surge to earth. Not a receptacle's safety ground - earth.

What is found in every facility that cannot have damage? Protectors distant from electronics. And always a connection low impedance (ie 'less than 3 meters') to earth ground. For cable TV, that connection is best made by a wire - no protector. Neither telephone nor AC electric can be connected directly to earth. So we use a next best thing to make that low impedance (ie 'less than 3 meter) connection: a 'whole house' protector.

Remember an important number. A surge, that can overwhelm protection already inside appliances, can be hundreds of thousands of joules. What harmlessly absorbs that energy? Single point earth ground. All four words have major significance. Even the length of that wire to earth is critical - even a sharp wire bend compromises that connection.

Neither Cal-Lab, AVR, Belkin, etc claim to protect from typically destructive surges. As demonstrated by manufacturer specification numbers that recommend each device.

Do this. Ask only about one anomaly. And always demand spec numbers. Nothing protects from all anomalies. Voltage regulation is a concern when light bulbs dim to less than 50% intensity. And then an entire post longer than this one can discuss effective solutions unique to that anomaly.

Noise is another concern. A completely different solution addresses that.

Belkin is for a type of surge already made irrelevant by what is inside all appliances.

Lightning is another type of surge that the Belkin does not even claim to avert. Don't take my word for it. Every recommendation either provided relevant manufacturer specification numbsrs. Or is best considered bogus hearsay. A discussion of that anomaly can also be longer than this post.

Which anomaly concerns you. Ask about each separately. Only then can effective solutions be suggested ... with manufacturer specifications that say how good. BTW, best warranties are more often found on lesser products.

This post has been edited by westom: Feb 20 2014, 05:17 PM

wow. that's not helpful.
i'm still processing.
... still ...
... still ...
... still ...
... error.
yup.

Wow, that's alot of information to absorb.
My primary concern is power surges and then followed by lightning strikes.

I had an experience once where I switched on a regular power strip which had my pc, monitor and charger connected to it, it sparked a bit and then had a burning smell. Luckily none of my devices were damaged. What can I do to make sure that this can be avoided or at least have my devices protected from an incident like this?

isolate your equipment into islands.
patch everything in that island into a belkin.
patch the belkin into a cal-lab.

it'll cost you ~rm300 and you're protected by the cal-lab SPD and can claim insurance from belkin if should the cal-lab fails.
money well spent.

Surges and lightning are similar anomalies. Lightning is simply one example of an anomaly called a surge. Effective protection means surges do no damage. Informed recommendation comes with numbers. Numbers and underlying concepts that even say why 'islanding' is ineffective.

For example, lightning is typically 20,000 amps. 20,000 amps would simply blow through any islanding. A minimal 'whole house' protector (for all typically destructive surges) is 50,000 amps and properly earthed. Because effective protection means 20,000 amps does not enter a building, does not go hunting for earth destructively via appliances, and does not even damage a protector.

This superior solution is also tens or 100 times less expensive. So that nobody even knows a surge existed. This superior solution is the only solution always implemented in any facility that cannot have damage. And is unknown to many who only learn from hearsay and advertising. The effective recommendation will always say where hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate. Specification numbers seperate effective recommendations from hearsay or speculation.

A spark during power on would not damage electronics. That spark is maybe a bad connection resulting in maybe lower voltage to the appliance. Energy dissipated in the spark area means less voltage going into electronics. A protector would do nothing for that spark. A potentially destructive surge is a completely different anomaly often resulting in voltages more than three times higher than normal line voltage. Reduced voltage would occur when energy dissipates in the spark.

Some other reasons for a surge include stray cars, squirrels, utility switching, and falling / shorted power lines. So that these anomalies and lightning do no overwhelm protection already inside each appliance, an informed consumer properly earths one 'whole house' protector.

How can I tell if my house is properly earthed and where is this "whole house" protector located?

First the house must be earthed to meet codes only for human safety. Locate copper (4 mm) wires from the breaker box (power board). These may be insulated green. One may connect where a cold water pipe enters the house. Another must go to an earth ground rod (electrode) typically located just outside. These connections provide human safety.

For transistor safety, these same connections must meet additional requirements. For example, if a typically 4 mm ground wire from the breaker box (main switch panel) goes up over the foundation and down to the electrode, then it is too long, has too many sharp bends, and is bundled with other non-grounding wires. It should be rerouted to go through the foundation and down to that electrode. A critically important number was posted previously. Less than 3 meters.

A term 'low impedance' means a connection to earth must be short. Just another reason why protectors adjacent to appliances are not earthed.

The electrode is the single point earth ground. Every wire inside each cable that enters a building must connect to that electrode either directly (ie cable TV, satellite dish) or via a protector (ie telephone, AC electric). Thye electrode or a ground network is the all so criticallly important single point earth ground.

An AC utility demonstrates this well understood concept with examples of good, bad, and ugly (preferred, wrong, and right) solutions:
http://www.duke-energy.com/indiana-busines...tech-tip-08.asp

Protection is always about where hundreds of thousands of joules are harmlessly absorbed. Advertising is not selling earth ground. So many only know what advertisers are selling - protectors. Therefore many do not discuss what is most important (earth ground) and do not know what numbers are important.

A typically destructive surge (ie lightning) is 20,000 amps. So a 'whole house' protector for AC mains must be large enough to connect those hundreds of thousands of joules from the incoming utility wire to earth. Therefore a minimal 'whole house' protector for AC electric is 50,000 amps. Since protectors that fail (are grossly undersized) do not provide effective protection; do not maintain a connection to earth.

That summarized protection as it was done even 100 years ago. With numbers that define what is minimally sufficient. And why even direct lightning strikes need not cause damage. Not only a well proven and best solution. Also a least expensive solution; a lowest cost per protected appliance. Key to the entire protection 'system' is its most important component - single point earth ground. That exists for human safety and is upgraded for transistor safety.

This post has been edited by westom: Feb 22 2014, 04:23 AM

not viable , not applicable for people who cannot access or change the building main ground connection. what about those who live in an apartment where the building grounding scheme are not accessible?

you approach also doesn't consider sparking, arching from a lightning strike where the surge doesn't enter from outside. it's pointless to fully shield the house only at the main grounding when the surge enters from say, the astro dish.
lightning strike the astro dish, or strike a pole near the dish and arch to the astro dish, travels itself down the coax, into your astro receiver and since the astro receiver doesn't have any safety earth connection, it'll run across the RCA jack into your TV, or short itself through the live or neutral wire into your power strip and damage everything connected to strip.

islanding and surge protection devices does work, according to the national lightning safety institute.
islanding and SPD is even recommended, refer http://www.lightningsafety.com/nlsi_lhm.html section 5.2

btw it's nice to sound expertly and such, but simple english are far better to convey what you're trying to explain. after all, we don't all hold a phd in electrical-ish to understand all the jargon.

You completely ignored what was posted. Described was how a dish must be properly integrated into the protection system. And why a surge would not travel into the receiver via its coax. Each complaint was addressed in one way or another. By ignoring the science (by reading subjectively), then you failed to see how and why each concern was already addressed. Even hypothetical sparks are only special effects from a Hollywood disaster movie. Please discuss using science and numbers; without pyrotechnic speculations.

Obviously earthing a receiver would make receiver damage easier. That should have been obvious. Nobody said anything about earthing an appliance or receiver. If comprehending underlying science and numbers, then an earthed receiver would never be mentioned. Since reading English by ignoring science and numbers, then these simple concepts remain elusive. Rather than preach denials as if you know this stuff, instead ask questions to learn why your concerns were already answered. And to learn why you read what was never written.

This post has been edited by westom: Feb 22 2014, 06:35 PM

earthing alone is useless for double insulated appliances, unless lightning protection devices are used which will divert surging voltage to earthing circuit

i didn't unplug, just leave it there if i didn't use~

which is easier and by far a cheaper solution?
isolation equipments into islands or re-doing the entire house electrical wiring and ground everything. yes, i'm sure rewiring the entire house is easier and cheaper.

let's say i'm looking to ground my satellite dish so i don't need to ground my receiver.
i could go out the window and run a wire from the coax shield to a grounded metal pole, or i could buy a belkin (or a cal-lab) and run the coax through them and have it grounded that way. both would result in the dish be grounded, but one requires more labor.

Islands do not isolate anything. And do not protect from destructive surges. But many did not read what was posted with sufficient care. For example, neb tried to combine urban myths about safety ground with surge protection. His 'earthing the receiver' means a surge will use the receiver as a best and destructive path to earth. Do not earth the receiver. Earth the surge.

Please return to earlier posts to grasp a critical point. Safety ground in a receptacle is completely different from earth ground outside. Also critical was this number: ie 'less than 3 meters'. If the surge does not connect that short to an electrode, then impedance is excessive; protection compromised.

To protect an LNB and receiver, that coax wire must connect low impedance (ie 'less than 3 meters') to the same earth ground used by telephone, AC electric and any other incoming wire. (Other details also apply. But cannot be discussed until these initial concepts are first understood.) Obviously coax must enter at the service entrace. The term is 'single point earth ground' - each of four words has major technical significance. And it refers to a ground completely different from motherboard, receptacle, chassis, and other grounds.

Easiest and cheapest solution involves proper earthing of one 'whole house' protector. Belkin is a completely different device that creates confusion by using a same name. Best solution means no rewiring anywhere inside the house. Protection is same and best with both two wire and three wire receptacles - all unchanged. An earth ground that must exist for human safety may need be upgraded for transistor safety. And again, how much wire might need be rerouted? The expression is posted repeatedly. 'Less than 3 meters'.

Earth grounding a Belkin or anything inside creates human safety problems. Those must connect to safety ground; not earth ground. Surge protection is not about earthing anything inside a structure. Surge protection is about earthing a surge BEFORE it enters. Only then do we know where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate.

Concepts proven by over 100 years of science were even first demonstrated by Franklin in 1752. Islanding and the Belkin both violate this well proven science. To grasp this means first disposing of myths invented to promote Belkin sales.

Surges hunt destructively for earth via appliances. Earthing any appliance only makes surge damage easier. Please reread the previous post to better grasp what was originally written.

This post has been edited by westom: Feb 24 2014, 05:00 PM

I have a gold series 8 socket Belkin for my amp, subwoofer, blu ray player, smart tv, Astro, av to RF converter and still have 2 plugs left. When I use the two plugs, I plug the extension cable for my phone charger. When I don't, I unplug it and I don't get electrocuted.
same goes with Belkin home series 4 socket for my PC(the power hogging one!)

you win

Nobody has won anything. We have not even discussed how your satellite dish is earthed to avert damage. We only discussed part of that system: where coax enters the building.

I think youre missing a point here. How are we going to provide "earth ground" to this whole house surge protector when you need to feed it with wires <3m running to the copper rod , most case its illegal to plant your own rods and wires in apartments. Its either the bulding already have earth ground not just safety ground provided by eletricity company. MOVs still can take small surge and dissipates it internally, but it dies after taking few strikes. surge that is not so destructive but with extreme spikes that could damage intergrated circuits. Your method only helps in landed property.

This post has been edited by Mea Culpa: Mar 1 2014, 12:21 PM

A building must already have an earth ground. Which is different from safety grounds found in power points. Details depend on construction and relevant codes. Question of how to connect to earth ground is answered unique to each building. Only defined here are characteristics of that essential connection.

MOVs do not die after a few strikes. Grossly undersized protectors (profit centers) fail quickly. Urban hearsay calls that acceptacle. Undersizing means larger profits. A resulting early failure gets most naive customers to recommend it. Worse, grossly undersized means a potential fire.

For example, one MOV manufacturer describes how to test his product. How can it be tested with 10,000 surges before degrading (not failing catastrophically; only degrade)? It is not grossly undersized.

Better protectors are more robust to remain functional even after multiple lightning strikes. But that means one from a manufacturer that puts more money into the protector; less money into advertising and profits.

Appliances already contain robust protection. For example, an integrated circuit that, by itself, can be damaged by 20 volts. Same interface semiconductor can withstand 15,000 volts when integrated as part of a system:
http://datasheets.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/MAX1487E-MAX491E.pdf

If not using a 'whole house' solution, then next best protection is inside electronics.

Apartments always have earth ground but i doubt they were ever meant for surge protection intergration for most buildings, but its there to serve the lightning rod. They obviously fail the 3 meter length from earth.

Why use cheapo undersized surge protection? Like you said many times most if not all appliances already have surge protection builtin so why bother with surge protection? one the most common culprit , the phone line. Most device only provide protection for powerline input.

HDMI 50mA spec is argueble the most sensitive one. Surge protector does not provide continuos overcurrent protection.

One of the common problems of HDTV is dead HDMI ports. Where do you think these overcurrent coming from?
1. From telephone line connected to router , then to media player and via HDMI then to the tv HDMI sink.
2. Excessive current leakage from switch mode power supply (poor or bad filtering)into the device secondary ground and 5+vs hdmi interface.
3. Surge from AC into hdmi interface. Note that most device already have some form of protection.

A cheapo phone line surge protector mov , esd or even thermal fuse type suffice for those using wired interface to the hdtv, but wireless or fiberoptic solve this problem.

External low capacitance HDMI Esd/surge protection is expensive, atleast it offers some protection against common failures. Some hdtv may have builtin hdmi esd, but 1 hit renders the port useless, replacing or repairing it is not as easy as replacing a fuse, or it might not even be repairable without board replacement.

For landed property, nothing is simpler than whole house protection.

This post has been edited by Mea Culpa: Mar 4 2014, 09:04 AM

Plenty of good questions.

Earth ground exists according to code for human safety. Codes really do not care about transistor safety. But use that same earth ground to also protect transistors. This earth electrode is completely diferent from one that might connect a lightning rod to earth. That is typically a comopletely different earth ground for a current path that never enters a building.

Now, if the AC electric earth ground did not exist, then a voltage difference could exist between the neutral or safety ground wire and the floor. That is a threat to human life if voltage is high enough. And an example of what is called a floating ground.

So that significant voltage differences do not exist between neutral, safety ground, and the floor, an earth ground connects to other grounds at a single point. Often the main power panel. In some older venues, the only earth ground is back at the transformer. That means less human safety and must be modified also for transistor safety.

For surge protection, this earth ground connection must be even shorter, have no sharp bends, and other electrical characteristics that exceed safety code requirements. Only then can every incoming wire be surge protected. If connected short to earth directly (ie cable TV) or via a 'whole house' protector (ie telephone, AC electtric).

High fise apartements might use a steel I-beam as an excellent earth ground. So some construction earths a main power panel to the attached or adjacent I-bean. As noted earlier, what is earth ground is unique to codes and how it was done in that building.


HDMI failure is a perfect example of a surge current that is both incoming and outgoing via the appliance. A common incoming path is AC mains. Since TV cable is often properly earthed, then a best outgoing path is via that HDMI port and somehow to cable. First a surge current is everywhere in a path from the cloud, through a TV, and out via cable to distant charges. Later a weakest point in that path fails. A most common 'weakest point' is the outgoing path - HDMI ports.

Protection means that current must not even enter a building. Then that current does not hunt for weak links including HDMI ports, USB ports, RS-232 connections, and RF amplifiers on satellite receievers. Usually (but not always), these damaged ports are the outgoing path. Not the incoming path as so many only speculate into a conclusion.

Damage from leakage is, well, galvanic isolation required in all electronics designs means the appliance will often withstand upwards of 1000 volt transients without leaking excessive current. And will leak only microamps in normal operation. Otherwise an RCD would intermittently nuisance trip.


All appliarnces have robust protection. That is why 'dirty' pouwer often from a UPS in battery backup mode causes no damage. Your concern is not 'near zero' surges so often hyped to promote magic plog-in protectors. Your concern is a rare surge, maybe once every seven years, that can overwhelm protection inside appliances. Surge protection is always about the big and destructive transient. Constant (and trivial) overvoltages cause no damage. Surge protector (not to be confused with the other word protection) must be sized so as to not fail on destructive surges. Then a consumers does not know a surge even existed.

Many advocate fiber opitcs, et al to cure the problem. Why? For over 100 years - long beore fiber existed - these surges existed without damage. I recently defined major damage to one venue that was using fiber. Again, a surge entered on AC mains. It found earth ground destrutively via a multi-function printer on a fax connection. If replaces its surge protector to restore that printer. That phone line entered on fiber (for TV, internet, and phone). But again, the outgoing path to earth was that telephone line to a fiber optic interface box - that was properly earthed.

Again, protection is always about earthing every single incoming wire. If any wire enters without that low impedance connection to earth, then protection is compromised. Once that surge current is inside, it will go hunting destructively for earth via appliances of its choice. Protectiono is always about no surge current inside.

Do not put a protector on the HDMI port. Suggesting that says one does not get itt. What is a path from the cloud to distant earthborne charges? If that path has any reason to be inside a building, then protection is ineffective. Protection is always about connecting a current to earth as far as possible away from appliances. Protection increases with separation between appliances and a protector. Protection increases with every foot shorter from protector to earth. Obviously an HDMI protector has no place and does nothing useful in the well proven concepts of surge protection.

But that was not the case. Most ppl would just TURN OFF their HDTVs when they heard the 1st thunder, which means no AC at all. But end result they still end up with dead router modems, media players and HDMI port, this is not uncommon at all. Phone lines have low operating voltage a simple cheapo surge protector with thermal fuse could have save all the trouble.

An external HDMI ESD should provide extra protection to voltage sensitive circuits.

This post has been edited by Mea Culpa: Mar 4 2014, 02:00 PM

Those conclusions are invalid for many reasons. The most obvious one: assumptions are devoid of numbers. No numbers is a first indication of junk science reasoning.

First:
1) Turn it off? Will a millimeter gap in a switch stop what three kilometers of sky could not? Of course not.

2) Turning it off only disconnects one wire. Other AC wires remain connected - also destructive surge paths.

3) Fuse takes tens of millisconds or longer to trip. Surges do damage in microseconds. Easily, 300 consecutive surges could pass through a fuse before it even thought about blowing.

4) Surges are a current source. That means voltage will increase as necessary to blow through any blocking device. An open switch or fuse may claim 250 volts. That means a surge simply increases voltages above 250 volts to conduct (blow) through that switch or fuse.

Nothing stops a surge even though advertising wants all to promote that protection myth. Any device that claims to stop a surge is bogus - a profit center. Furthermore humans rarely are avaiable to disconnect or turn off anything. (8 hours sleeping, 8 hours working, 2 hours doing body maintenance, etc). Disconnecting depends are a very unreliable actor - the human. Furthermore surges even do damage before anyone knows a storm is approaching. And that includes other surge sources such as stray cars, utility switching, and pesky rodents.

Second: Disconnecting means everything must be disconnecxted. That includes the air conditioner, all clocks, refrigerator, and the most important devices during a surge - smoke detectors.

Third: An operating voltage is completely different from what devices can withstand without damage. Phone may operate at -48 volts or lower. But phones long have been designed to withstand up to 600 volts transients without damage ... for longer than anyone here has even existed.

Ethernet has tens of times lower operating voltages. And also must withstand up to 2000 volt transients without damage. Do not confuse operating voltages with other voltages.

Previously provided was a datasheet for an interface chips - single digit voltage signals - and also withstand up to 15,000 volts.

Fourth: A thermal fuse disconnects protector parts as fast as possible. To avert a house fire. An emergency device to only protect human life. Thermal fuse leaves a surge connected to appliances. Some only assume that maybe 1 amp thermal fuse does appliance protection. It doesn't. A blown fuse is the homeowner's last warning that his protecxtor was grossly undersized and a potential house fire.

Do not confuse a thermal fuse with another and completely different fuse - the line fuse or circuit breaker.

Finally: for over 100 years, there has been no alternative to this well proven concept. Protection is about diverting surge currents to earth on a path that does not enter the bulding. Either hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate harmlessly outside. Or that current goes hunting for earth destructively via appliances ... no matter what magic device or disconnecting tries to stop it. Those other techniques and protector are only for systems that first properly earth a surge current BEFORE it can enter a structure.

Protetion is always about and performed by earth ground.

This post has been edited by westom: Mar 4 2014, 02:20 PM

What other option do you have besides whole house protection? Yes its the simplest solution and the most effective one, but will it be viable to everyone living in apartments?

All AV equipments should be under 1 powerstrip, unplugging that ONE solved all the trouble, and just use wireless network for interconnectivity.

Keyword : only unplug your "precious"

This post has been edited by Mea Culpa: Mar 4 2014, 02:41 PM

Only other option is already existing internal protection.

Those other protector devices are only to supplement a 'whole house' solution. Without properly earthing, those other protectors do little.

In some venues, a local power company can even rent a 'whole house' protector that is installed with the electric meter. Numerous solutions exist. But each is based on what does the protection. Protector is only a connecting device.

Above was a discussion of 'secondary' protection. 'Primary' protection is implemented by the utility often at their transformer. And again, each layer of protection is defined by the one 'system' component that must always exist: earth ground electrode. Protectors are not protection; are only connecting devices.

A rather interesting device for telephones. A radio receiver would detect a radio signature from the formation of a lightning strike. Then trip a relay. If the relay only disconnected phone lines, then no protection existed. But this relay made a connection to earth. It would disconnect the phone and connect incoming phone lines directly to earth. And made this connection for something less than 0.5 seconds. Long enough to earth a surge. But short enough so that the telco did not disconnect any ongoing phone conversation.

from my personal experience I got a couple of cordless phones fried by lightning presumably through telephone line, or could be from high voltage surge through tenaga power line, now no more lightning problem after installing lightning isolation devices at both telephone line and power line

The bolded is what you called assumptions devoid of numbers aka junk science reasoning, no?

Tv connected to media player via hdmi then to phone line cable via lan port of media player to router is properly earth? So now the phone line somewhat properly earthed? We are talking about surge that could jump accros open switch, are we not?

pls provide your source or ref where the weakest point is the hdmi port? If the surge was outgoing it would have taken many other more sensitive internal parts not just an HDMI port considering it could travel across an open switch.

This post has been edited by Mea Culpa: Mar 4 2014, 08:13 PM

Whole house single point or point-of-use surge protection?

This post has been edited by Mea Culpa: Mar 4 2014, 08:16 PM

can't afford whole house lightning protection, so settled for second best, a 2-point protection

niceeeee.... voltage increase to compensate current to blow through a fuse or switch.

you go westom. explain to these little b****es us the proper way to insulate our house from those damned lightning strike surges. we need more guidance from you.

It would be much helpful if his advice here doesnt require readers to have a Bac. Degree in electrical engineering to understand, just plain simple english.

His arguement is basically without "whole house" protection with single point earth, those point-at-use SPD or surge protectors (either MOV or TVSS) are nothing but bogus product which does nothing more than appliance internal protection.

i think this is partially correct that is if the neutral is not properly connected to local earth at entrance. (Not to be confused with safety ground which is the return path of shorted/fault current to neutral). But is this the case with all houses and apartments? The protection could already exist at buildings service entrance, but the units owner do not know for sure.

So those CAL-Lab or belkin is not nessarily bogus products even without whole house protector. It is also a fact that these protectors doest fully really work without proper earthing, as they cant possibly absorb 100% energy from the surge; partially .. Yes.

This post has been edited by Mea Culpa: Mar 5 2014, 09:57 AM

Again, a main power panel for each apartment may have its own 'less than 3 meter' earth ground by bonding to an adjacent I-beam. But again, this would be unique to that building. And made obvious by inspection. Other options also were described.

A point of use protector does not necessarily add protection as demonstrated by posted manufacturer spec numbers. Often inferior to protection already inside appliances. In some cases, it has made appliance damage easier (ie bypassing protection already inside the appliance). And can be so undersized as to, in rare cases, cause a fire.

Better than a point of use protector without a 'whole house' protector IS just using the appliance. Then superior protection is not compromised by an adjacent protector.

A 'plug-in' protector does not claim to protect from a typically destructive surge. Obviously - no earth ground. And still many recommend it only because it is called a protector.

Provided are no facts or numbers that say a Belkin or Cal-Lab provides protection, Where is the Belkin numeric spec that claims protection? Never provided.

We traced surges through equipment because a protector (too close to appliance and without earth ground) earthed a surge destructively through the computer. We literally traced that surge path by replacing each semiconductor in that surge path. Completely restored the hardware. And made it woefully obvious to naysayers that an adjacent protector compromised protection inside that computer.

Without a 'whole house' solution, a plug-in protector creates additional problems. Even manufacturer specifications do not claim protection that others have only assumed.

Never said plug-ins provide full protection, they were meant for precaution. if destructive lightning surge earthed at main entrance before entering individual units of apartments, what is the chance of big surges entering the units? only Small surges, the COMMON ones. Unless you mean a direct hit to your unit.

Only AVs are more prone to damage from surge compared to other appliances, just group then under 1 plug, unplug when necessary. Even internal surges can damage components like HDMI, eg. hotplugging during powering up of PC.

This post has been edited by Mea Culpa: Mar 5 2014, 10:37 AM

Numbers were provided for destructive surges. Maybe one every seven years. A number that can vary significantly even in the same town.

Correct. You did not say a Belkin provides full protection. But I said a Belkin or Cal-Lab can even compromise (bypass) existing and superior protection. May even create less protection. A problem even described in an IEEE paper.

What maybe should be taken more serously? Static electric discharges.

Copper water piping perhaps. Because these structures are normally earth bonded. Id normally touch them to discharge statics on my body. Grounded metal casing will do too.

Btw the external HDMI dongles are ESD devices. Sometimes market as "hdmi protector"

This post has been edited by Mea Culpa: Mar 5 2014, 11:44 AM

Btw the external HDMI dongles are ESD protection devices. Sometimes market as "hdmi protector " its also equipped with Transient voltage suppressor diodes and a backdrive current protection.

This post has been edited by Mea Culpa: Mar 5 2014, 02:13 PM

http://www.lightningsafety.com/nlsi_lhm/IEEE_Guide.pdf

an interesting read on lightning protection in easy to read plain english

according to above IEEE paper, plug-in protector+building earth does work in protecting home appliances! Tenaga and telekom lightning protection system do not provide 100% lightning protection to home appliances


check out this forum, the same westom?
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2334015

This post has been edited by neb: Mar 5 2014, 02:24 PM

Some plug-in protectors offers feature that whole house protector do not, such as sustained overvoltage/ undervoltage protection.

This post has been edited by Mea Culpa: Mar 5 2014, 03:26 PM

who is this ieee fella? must be some bogus commercial institution selling fake products. the paper must be a sales brochure.
must not be trusted this ieee fella. must place trust in westom.

must trust some random guy posting some random jargon in some random internet forum. better than trusting this ieee fella.
it's on the internet, i.e. it must be true.

you are absolutely 100% right, who is this ieee guy anyway , don't trust whatever is written on the internet

try out yourself what surge protection scheme is working best for you and stick with it

This post has been edited by neb: Mar 5 2014, 11:06 PM

And again, a claim without spec numbers. How many volts is sustained overvoltage/undervoltage? All appliances also feature sustained overvoltage/undervoltage protection well beyond what most will see.

For example, an overvoltage that causes incandescent bulbs to fail twice as fast is ideal voltage for all electronics. An undervoltage that causes incandescent bulbs to dim to 50% intensity is normal voltage for all electronics. What is this sustained voltage that causes damage?

What is that plug-in protector protecting? An attached appliance or only itself? Making such claims ALWAYS requires spec numbers.

Lightningsafety.com shows how to use 'whole house' protectors and plug-in protectors as part of a 'system'. And makes some important points. A protection 'system' is defined by the one always required 'system' component - earth ground. A plug-in protector does not make the earth ground connection. The 'system' does not work without a 'whole house' protector to make that connection to earth. On page 22:
Required is to accomplish these three functions that no plug-in protector can do; only the 'whole house' protector can do:

A plug-in protector without a 'whole house' protector is ineffective - accomplishes near zero protection. And IEEE paper notes that a plug-in protector without a 'whole house' protector can even make appliance damage easier.

IEEE even provides numbers for what the 'whole house' and plug-in protetors do: A plug-in protector adds maybe 0.2% protection - and only if a 'whole house' protector exists and is properly earthed. The above quote even notes a plug-in protector must be protected by an earthed 'whole house' protector.


This post has been edited by westom: Mar 6 2014, 12:08 AM

Then consider perspective - the numbers. Destructive surges are maybe once every seven years. So how long must you try it to eventually learn something?

Only way to know if that one protector works: a surge must damage all other appliances not connected to that protector. Including refrigerator, all dimmer switches, and CFL bulbs. Do you really want to wait seven years to eventually have everything else damaged? Or learn from what was proven by over 100 years of experience and from manufacturer specification numbers?


This post has been edited by westom: Mar 6 2014, 12:09 AM

say westom, are you based in malaysia?

bro
just been reading this .

a good fuse does NOT block power surge / lightning power surge . A lightning arrestor or a SPD at DB box does .
a fuse is to block overload current . ie a 13 A will blow out if more than 13 A flow thru .

the power surge on phoneline/land line is strong . that s why you had issues.

those who are keen for DIY can try this step.

bro... good DIY video. built this for leakage protection / human safety / kids safety

BUT ....
for surge protection this can not help.
the trip protection is SLOW . the lightning surge will already zap your TV in 1 mSec .
they use mechanical switch which trip SLOW ya.

Sighh.. rcd is not for lightning
Mov spd baru betul.

0.01 is for water related.

Yes, should install something like this https://www.lazada.com.my/products/abb-surg...4895348998.html

Get APC surge protector.

The belkin apc here are all type 3.
Should be used in conjunction with a type 1+2 at the main incoming.


Consider the spd like water filter. The belkin apc are the cookoocoways. You don't expect it to filter the dirty water from river.