So many replies discuss completely different and unrelated anomalies. As if some magic box will solve all. As if a recommendation without numbers can be honest.

For example, normal voltage for electronics is even when incandescent bulbs dim to 50% intensity. How often are your bulbs dimming that much? Why then do so many recommend AVR or UPS for low voltage? Advertising and hearsay says so - subjectively. Well, here is a relevant number. How often are your bulbs dimming that much? Zero times? Then best AVR is standard inside all electronics.

How many joules does that Cal-Lab or Belkin absorb? A thousand? Destructive surges are hundreds of thousands of joules. What will the Belkin et al protect from? Surges that are already made irrelevant by existing protection.

One concern is a rare transient that can overwhelm existing protection inside appliances. What will absorb hundreds of thosuands of joules? What makes even direct lightning strikes irrelevant? Earth ground.

A lightning strike far down the street is a direct strike incoming to all appliances. Are all appliances damaged? Of course not. For reasons taught in elementary school science. To have damage means a current must be incoming on one path. And simultaneously outgoing to earth on another path. What is damaged? An appliance that best connects a surge to earth. Not a receptacle's safety ground - earth.

What is found in every facility that cannot have damage? Protectors distant from electronics. And always a connection low impedance (ie 'less than 3 meters') to earth ground. For cable TV, that connection is best made by a wire - no protector. Neither telephone nor AC electric can be connected directly to earth. So we use a next best thing to make that low impedance (ie 'less than 3 meter) connection: a 'whole house' protector.

Remember an important number. A surge, that can overwhelm protection already inside appliances, can be hundreds of thousands of joules. What harmlessly absorbs that energy? Single point earth ground. All four words have major significance. Even the length of that wire to earth is critical - even a sharp wire bend compromises that connection.

Neither Cal-Lab, AVR, Belkin, etc claim to protect from typically destructive surges. As demonstrated by manufacturer specification numbers that recommend each device.

Do this. Ask only about one anomaly. And always demand spec numbers. Nothing protects from all anomalies. Voltage regulation is a concern when light bulbs dim to less than 50% intensity. And then an entire post longer than this one can discuss effective solutions unique to that anomaly.

Noise is another concern. A completely different solution addresses that.

Belkin is for a type of surge already made irrelevant by what is inside all appliances.

Lightning is another type of surge that the Belkin does not even claim to avert. Don't take my word for it. Every recommendation either provided relevant manufacturer specification numbsrs. Or is best considered bogus hearsay. A discussion of that anomaly can also be longer than this post.

Which anomaly concerns you. Ask about each separately. Only then can effective solutions be suggested ... with manufacturer specifications that say how good. BTW, best warranties are more often found on lesser products.

This post has been edited by westom: Feb 20 2014, 05:17 PM

Surges and lightning are similar anomalies. Lightning is simply one example of an anomaly called a surge. Effective protection means surges do no damage. Informed recommendation comes with numbers. Numbers and underlying concepts that even say why 'islanding' is ineffective.

For example, lightning is typically 20,000 amps. 20,000 amps would simply blow through any islanding. A minimal 'whole house' protector (for all typically destructive surges) is 50,000 amps and properly earthed. Because effective protection means 20,000 amps does not enter a building, does not go hunting for earth destructively via appliances, and does not even damage a protector.

This superior solution is also tens or 100 times less expensive. So that nobody even knows a surge existed. This superior solution is the only solution always implemented in any facility that cannot have damage. And is unknown to many who only learn from hearsay and advertising. The effective recommendation will always say where hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate. Specification numbers seperate effective recommendations from hearsay or speculation.

A spark during power on would not damage electronics. That spark is maybe a bad connection resulting in maybe lower voltage to the appliance. Energy dissipated in the spark area means less voltage going into electronics. A protector would do nothing for that spark. A potentially destructive surge is a completely different anomaly often resulting in voltages more than three times higher than normal line voltage. Reduced voltage would occur when energy dissipates in the spark.

Some other reasons for a surge include stray cars, squirrels, utility switching, and falling / shorted power lines. So that these anomalies and lightning do no overwhelm protection already inside each appliance, an informed consumer properly earths one 'whole house' protector.

First the house must be earthed to meet codes only for human safety. Locate copper (4 mm) wires from the breaker box (power board). These may be insulated green. One may connect where a cold water pipe enters the house. Another must go to an earth ground rod (electrode) typically located just outside. These connections provide human safety.

For transistor safety, these same connections must meet additional requirements. For example, if a typically 4 mm ground wire from the breaker box (main switch panel) goes up over the foundation and down to the electrode, then it is too long, has too many sharp bends, and is bundled with other non-grounding wires. It should be rerouted to go through the foundation and down to that electrode. A critically important number was posted previously. Less than 3 meters.

A term 'low impedance' means a connection to earth must be short. Just another reason why protectors adjacent to appliances are not earthed.

The electrode is the single point earth ground. Every wire inside each cable that enters a building must connect to that electrode either directly (ie cable TV, satellite dish) or via a protector (ie telephone, AC electric). Thye electrode or a ground network is the all so criticallly important single point earth ground.

An AC utility demonstrates this well understood concept with examples of good, bad, and ugly (preferred, wrong, and right) solutions:
http://www.duke-energy.com/indiana-busines...tech-tip-08.asp

Protection is always about where hundreds of thousands of joules are harmlessly absorbed. Advertising is not selling earth ground. So many only know what advertisers are selling - protectors. Therefore many do not discuss what is most important (earth ground) and do not know what numbers are important.

A typically destructive surge (ie lightning) is 20,000 amps. So a 'whole house' protector for AC mains must be large enough to connect those hundreds of thousands of joules from the incoming utility wire to earth. Therefore a minimal 'whole house' protector for AC electric is 50,000 amps. Since protectors that fail (are grossly undersized) do not provide effective protection; do not maintain a connection to earth.

That summarized protection as it was done even 100 years ago. With numbers that define what is minimally sufficient. And why even direct lightning strikes need not cause damage. Not only a well proven and best solution. Also a least expensive solution; a lowest cost per protected appliance. Key to the entire protection 'system' is its most important component - single point earth ground. That exists for human safety and is upgraded for transistor safety.

This post has been edited by westom: Feb 22 2014, 04:23 AM

You completely ignored what was posted. Described was how a dish must be properly integrated into the protection system. And why a surge would not travel into the receiver via its coax. Each complaint was addressed in one way or another. By ignoring the science (by reading subjectively), then you failed to see how and why each concern was already addressed. Even hypothetical sparks are only special effects from a Hollywood disaster movie. Please discuss using science and numbers; without pyrotechnic speculations.

Obviously earthing a receiver would make receiver damage easier. That should have been obvious. Nobody said anything about earthing an appliance or receiver. If comprehending underlying science and numbers, then an earthed receiver would never be mentioned. Since reading English by ignoring science and numbers, then these simple concepts remain elusive. Rather than preach denials as if you know this stuff, instead ask questions to learn why your concerns were already answered. And to learn why you read what was never written.

This post has been edited by westom: Feb 22 2014, 06:35 PM

Islands do not isolate anything. And do not protect from destructive surges. But many did not read what was posted with sufficient care. For example, neb tried to combine urban myths about safety ground with surge protection. His 'earthing the receiver' means a surge will use the receiver as a best and destructive path to earth. Do not earth the receiver. Earth the surge.

Please return to earlier posts to grasp a critical point. Safety ground in a receptacle is completely different from earth ground outside. Also critical was this number: ie 'less than 3 meters'. If the surge does not connect that short to an electrode, then impedance is excessive; protection compromised.

To protect an LNB and receiver, that coax wire must connect low impedance (ie 'less than 3 meters') to the same earth ground used by telephone, AC electric and any other incoming wire. (Other details also apply. But cannot be discussed until these initial concepts are first understood.) Obviously coax must enter at the service entrace. The term is 'single point earth ground' - each of four words has major technical significance. And it refers to a ground completely different from motherboard, receptacle, chassis, and other grounds.

Easiest and cheapest solution involves proper earthing of one 'whole house' protector. Belkin is a completely different device that creates confusion by using a same name. Best solution means no rewiring anywhere inside the house. Protection is same and best with both two wire and three wire receptacles - all unchanged. An earth ground that must exist for human safety may need be upgraded for transistor safety. And again, how much wire might need be rerouted? The expression is posted repeatedly. 'Less than 3 meters'.

Earth grounding a Belkin or anything inside creates human safety problems. Those must connect to safety ground; not earth ground. Surge protection is not about earthing anything inside a structure. Surge protection is about earthing a surge BEFORE it enters. Only then do we know where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate.

Concepts proven by over 100 years of science were even first demonstrated by Franklin in 1752. Islanding and the Belkin both violate this well proven science. To grasp this means first disposing of myths invented to promote Belkin sales.

Surges hunt destructively for earth via appliances. Earthing any appliance only makes surge damage easier. Please reread the previous post to better grasp what was originally written.

This post has been edited by westom: Feb 24 2014, 05:00 PM

Nobody has won anything. We have not even discussed how your satellite dish is earthed to avert damage. We only discussed part of that system: where coax enters the building.

A building must already have an earth ground. Which is different from safety grounds found in power points. Details depend on construction and relevant codes. Question of how to connect to earth ground is answered unique to each building. Only defined here are characteristics of that essential connection.

MOVs do not die after a few strikes. Grossly undersized protectors (profit centers) fail quickly. Urban hearsay calls that acceptacle. Undersizing means larger profits. A resulting early failure gets most naive customers to recommend it. Worse, grossly undersized means a potential fire.

For example, one MOV manufacturer describes how to test his product. How can it be tested with 10,000 surges before degrading (not failing catastrophically; only degrade)? It is not grossly undersized.

Better protectors are more robust to remain functional even after multiple lightning strikes. But that means one from a manufacturer that puts more money into the protector; less money into advertising and profits.

Appliances already contain robust protection. For example, an integrated circuit that, by itself, can be damaged by 20 volts. Same interface semiconductor can withstand 15,000 volts when integrated as part of a system:
http://datasheets.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/MAX1487E-MAX491E.pdf

If not using a 'whole house' solution, then next best protection is inside electronics.

Plenty of good questions.

Earth ground exists according to code for human safety. Codes really do not care about transistor safety. But use that same earth ground to also protect transistors. This earth electrode is completely diferent from one that might connect a lightning rod to earth. That is typically a comopletely different earth ground for a current path that never enters a building.

Now, if the AC electric earth ground did not exist, then a voltage difference could exist between the neutral or safety ground wire and the floor. That is a threat to human life if voltage is high enough. And an example of what is called a floating ground.

So that significant voltage differences do not exist between neutral, safety ground, and the floor, an earth ground connects to other grounds at a single point. Often the main power panel. In some older venues, the only earth ground is back at the transformer. That means less human safety and must be modified also for transistor safety.

For surge protection, this earth ground connection must be even shorter, have no sharp bends, and other electrical characteristics that exceed safety code requirements. Only then can every incoming wire be surge protected. If connected short to earth directly (ie cable TV) or via a 'whole house' protector (ie telephone, AC electtric).

High fise apartements might use a steel I-beam as an excellent earth ground. So some construction earths a main power panel to the attached or adjacent I-bean. As noted earlier, what is earth ground is unique to codes and how it was done in that building.


HDMI failure is a perfect example of a surge current that is both incoming and outgoing via the appliance. A common incoming path is AC mains. Since TV cable is often properly earthed, then a best outgoing path is via that HDMI port and somehow to cable. First a surge current is everywhere in a path from the cloud, through a TV, and out via cable to distant charges. Later a weakest point in that path fails. A most common 'weakest point' is the outgoing path - HDMI ports.

Protection means that current must not even enter a building. Then that current does not hunt for weak links including HDMI ports, USB ports, RS-232 connections, and RF amplifiers on satellite receievers. Usually (but not always), these damaged ports are the outgoing path. Not the incoming path as so many only speculate into a conclusion.

Damage from leakage is, well, galvanic isolation required in all electronics designs means the appliance will often withstand upwards of 1000 volt transients without leaking excessive current. And will leak only microamps in normal operation. Otherwise an RCD would intermittently nuisance trip.


All appliarnces have robust protection. That is why 'dirty' pouwer often from a UPS in battery backup mode causes no damage. Your concern is not 'near zero' surges so often hyped to promote magic plog-in protectors. Your concern is a rare surge, maybe once every seven years, that can overwhelm protection inside appliances. Surge protection is always about the big and destructive transient. Constant (and trivial) overvoltages cause no damage. Surge protector (not to be confused with the other word protection) must be sized so as to not fail on destructive surges. Then a consumers does not know a surge even existed.

Many advocate fiber opitcs, et al to cure the problem. Why? For over 100 years - long beore fiber existed - these surges existed without damage. I recently defined major damage to one venue that was using fiber. Again, a surge entered on AC mains. It found earth ground destrutively via a multi-function printer on a fax connection. If replaces its surge protector to restore that printer. That phone line entered on fiber (for TV, internet, and phone). But again, the outgoing path to earth was that telephone line to a fiber optic interface box - that was properly earthed.

Again, protection is always about earthing every single incoming wire. If any wire enters without that low impedance connection to earth, then protection is compromised. Once that surge current is inside, it will go hunting destructively for earth via appliances of its choice. Protectiono is always about no surge current inside.

Do not put a protector on the HDMI port. Suggesting that says one does not get itt. What is a path from the cloud to distant earthborne charges? If that path has any reason to be inside a building, then protection is ineffective. Protection is always about connecting a current to earth as far as possible away from appliances. Protection increases with separation between appliances and a protector. Protection increases with every foot shorter from protector to earth. Obviously an HDMI protector has no place and does nothing useful in the well proven concepts of surge protection.

Those conclusions are invalid for many reasons. The most obvious one: assumptions are devoid of numbers. No numbers is a first indication of junk science reasoning.

First:
1) Turn it off? Will a millimeter gap in a switch stop what three kilometers of sky could not? Of course not.

2) Turning it off only disconnects one wire. Other AC wires remain connected - also destructive surge paths.

3) Fuse takes tens of millisconds or longer to trip. Surges do damage in microseconds. Easily, 300 consecutive surges could pass through a fuse before it even thought about blowing.

4) Surges are a current source. That means voltage will increase as necessary to blow through any blocking device. An open switch or fuse may claim 250 volts. That means a surge simply increases voltages above 250 volts to conduct (blow) through that switch or fuse.

Nothing stops a surge even though advertising wants all to promote that protection myth. Any device that claims to stop a surge is bogus - a profit center. Furthermore humans rarely are avaiable to disconnect or turn off anything. (8 hours sleeping, 8 hours working, 2 hours doing body maintenance, etc). Disconnecting depends are a very unreliable actor - the human. Furthermore surges even do damage before anyone knows a storm is approaching. And that includes other surge sources such as stray cars, utility switching, and pesky rodents.

Second: Disconnecting means everything must be disconnecxted. That includes the air conditioner, all clocks, refrigerator, and the most important devices during a surge - smoke detectors.

Third: An operating voltage is completely different from what devices can withstand without damage. Phone may operate at -48 volts or lower. But phones long have been designed to withstand up to 600 volts transients without damage ... for longer than anyone here has even existed.

Ethernet has tens of times lower operating voltages. And also must withstand up to 2000 volt transients without damage. Do not confuse operating voltages with other voltages.

Previously provided was a datasheet for an interface chips - single digit voltage signals - and also withstand up to 15,000 volts.

Fourth: A thermal fuse disconnects protector parts as fast as possible. To avert a house fire. An emergency device to only protect human life. Thermal fuse leaves a surge connected to appliances. Some only assume that maybe 1 amp thermal fuse does appliance protection. It doesn't. A blown fuse is the homeowner's last warning that his protecxtor was grossly undersized and a potential house fire.

Do not confuse a thermal fuse with another and completely different fuse - the line fuse or circuit breaker.

Finally: for over 100 years, there has been no alternative to this well proven concept. Protection is about diverting surge currents to earth on a path that does not enter the bulding. Either hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate harmlessly outside. Or that current goes hunting for earth destructively via appliances ... no matter what magic device or disconnecting tries to stop it. Those other techniques and protector are only for systems that first properly earth a surge current BEFORE it can enter a structure.

Protetion is always about and performed by earth ground.

This post has been edited by westom: Mar 4 2014, 02:20 PM

Only other option is already existing internal protection.

Those other protector devices are only to supplement a 'whole house' solution. Without properly earthing, those other protectors do little.

In some venues, a local power company can even rent a 'whole house' protector that is installed with the electric meter. Numerous solutions exist. But each is based on what does the protection. Protector is only a connecting device.

Above was a discussion of 'secondary' protection. 'Primary' protection is implemented by the utility often at their transformer. And again, each layer of protection is defined by the one 'system' component that must always exist: earth ground electrode. Protectors are not protection; are only connecting devices.

A rather interesting device for telephones. A radio receiver would detect a radio signature from the formation of a lightning strike. Then trip a relay. If the relay only disconnected phone lines, then no protection existed. But this relay made a connection to earth. It would disconnect the phone and connect incoming phone lines directly to earth. And made this connection for something less than 0.5 seconds. Long enough to earth a surge. But short enough so that the telco did not disconnect any ongoing phone conversation.

Again, a main power panel for each apartment may have its own 'less than 3 meter' earth ground by bonding to an adjacent I-beam. But again, this would be unique to that building. And made obvious by inspection. Other options also were described.

A point of use protector does not necessarily add protection as demonstrated by posted manufacturer spec numbers. Often inferior to protection already inside appliances. In some cases, it has made appliance damage easier (ie bypassing protection already inside the appliance). And can be so undersized as to, in rare cases, cause a fire.

Better than a point of use protector without a 'whole house' protector IS just using the appliance. Then superior protection is not compromised by an adjacent protector.

A 'plug-in' protector does not claim to protect from a typically destructive surge. Obviously - no earth ground. And still many recommend it only because it is called a protector.

Provided are no facts or numbers that say a Belkin or Cal-Lab provides protection, Where is the Belkin numeric spec that claims protection? Never provided.

We traced surges through equipment because a protector (too close to appliance and without earth ground) earthed a surge destructively through the computer. We literally traced that surge path by replacing each semiconductor in that surge path. Completely restored the hardware. And made it woefully obvious to naysayers that an adjacent protector compromised protection inside that computer.

Without a 'whole house' solution, a plug-in protector creates additional problems. Even manufacturer specifications do not claim protection that others have only assumed.

Numbers were provided for destructive surges. Maybe one every seven years. A number that can vary significantly even in the same town.

Correct. You did not say a Belkin provides full protection. But I said a Belkin or Cal-Lab can even compromise (bypass) existing and superior protection. May even create less protection. A problem even described in an IEEE paper.

What maybe should be taken more serously? Static electric discharges.

And again, a claim without spec numbers. How many volts is sustained overvoltage/undervoltage? All appliances also feature sustained overvoltage/undervoltage protection well beyond what most will see.

For example, an overvoltage that causes incandescent bulbs to fail twice as fast is ideal voltage for all electronics. An undervoltage that causes incandescent bulbs to dim to 50% intensity is normal voltage for all electronics. What is this sustained voltage that causes damage?

What is that plug-in protector protecting? An attached appliance or only itself? Making such claims ALWAYS requires spec numbers.

Lightningsafety.com shows how to use 'whole house' protectors and plug-in protectors as part of a 'system'. And makes some important points. A protection 'system' is defined by the one always required 'system' component - earth ground. A plug-in protector does not make the earth ground connection. The 'system' does not work without a 'whole house' protector to make that connection to earth. On page 22:
Required is to accomplish these three functions that no plug-in protector can do; only the 'whole house' protector can do:

A plug-in protector without a 'whole house' protector is ineffective - accomplishes near zero protection. And IEEE paper notes that a plug-in protector without a 'whole house' protector can even make appliance damage easier.

IEEE even provides numbers for what the 'whole house' and plug-in protetors do: A plug-in protector adds maybe 0.2% protection - and only if a 'whole house' protector exists and is properly earthed. The above quote even notes a plug-in protector must be protected by an earthed 'whole house' protector.


This post has been edited by westom: Mar 6 2014, 12:08 AM

Then consider perspective - the numbers. Destructive surges are maybe once every seven years. So how long must you try it to eventually learn something?

Only way to know if that one protector works: a surge must damage all other appliances not connected to that protector. Including refrigerator, all dimmer switches, and CFL bulbs. Do you really want to wait seven years to eventually have everything else damaged? Or learn from what was proven by over 100 years of experience and from manufacturer specification numbers?


This post has been edited by westom: Mar 6 2014, 12:09 AM