Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Bump Topic Topic Closed RSS Feed
118 Pages « < 6 7 8 9 10 > » Bottom

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

English Clubs Liverpool Kop Talk 2014, Liv 1-1 WBA, A Draw...CL Spot We Aim

views
     
cherroy
post Jan 14 2014, 11:13 AM

20k VIP Club
Group Icon
Staff
25,802 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penang


QUOTE(markblurberry @ Jan 13 2014, 06:40 PM)
As most would agree, this Liverpool side play some free flowing football. With attractive attacking football fundamental, players are encourage to find space to hurt opposition. This is the result of BR unshackling the attacking part of the team. Our approach under Houllier and Rafa were always measured, control and possession based.

With BR, there is a lax in control and in don't mean it in a negative way, instead, players are encouraged to make runs and creative passes to unlock defences. Unfortunately, this unshackling and creative freedom comes at a cost, a shakier defense - as players took risk and run into empty space which created a void in return, that can be exploited.

As such, like it or not, SG is still the figure head in midfield, being the more measured player. He took calculated risk as oppose to all out attack, and he understand that tracking back is crucial to prevent the defense from being exposed. AS such, the flow of yesterday's game was affected with SG in the side. Not blaming SG in any shape or form, but a lot of fine tuning is needed for this team to mature. I'd say it is still work in progress unless the right personnel can come in. Skrtle, altho is not world class defender, but I think is the best available option, given his balance in both aggression and pace. As such I cant see BR dropping Skrtle, and also part reason we go for Sakho, for his pace, off the ball and aggression. Without a pacey defender, we wont be able to attack as free flow as we possibly can.

Ideally, if we can get someone that fit the profile of Mark Van Bommel or Philipe Cocu, or Hamann, then I'd think we have sufficiently strengthen the squad. Again it is not easy to find the right CM. Manure been searching highlow for the right person to operate from the middle, but no avail, the reason scoles was recalled last season....and did their recent acquisition felaini solve their issue? I am sure not...all in all, January might not be the right time to get the right sort of player to fill the CM position altho I wouldn't mind Kevin DeBruyne, but how I wish...
*
A lot of goal conceded, come from DM or CB not closing down opponent attacker, clearly seen with 2 Stoke's goals.
This is the mistake that Liv need to rectify.
cherroy
post Jan 14 2014, 11:18 AM

20k VIP Club
Group Icon
Staff
25,802 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penang


The criticism on Gerrard is not justified.

The squad is thin, if not playing Gerrard at DM or CM, who should be the starting XI?

Even I viewed Gerrard had a sub-par game against Stoke (number of miss-passes), there is no other better candidate to fill up the boot.
Gerrard can still quite good is spraying diagonal passes around, that lead to assist on goal.

You can't expect an energetic run, box to box from a 33 years old midfielder, scoring screamer 20~30 yards goal like last time out, carry the team single handed.

dotaallstarz
post Jan 14 2014, 11:57 AM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
261 posts

Joined: May 2007


QUOTE(Rotuham @ Jan 14 2014, 09:39 AM)
Gerrard has the capabilities to be a dm.In fact he can be one of the best dm around.The only problem is whether he can curb his instincts to go forward at times which will leave the defence exposed.
*
gerrad can be our yaya toure.. its all about going up at the right time.. he can even be better than yaya with his shooting range
dotaallstarz
post Jan 14 2014, 12:08 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
261 posts

Joined: May 2007
QUOTE(cherroy @ Jan 14 2014, 11:18 AM)
The criticism on Gerrard is not justified.

The squad is thin, if not playing Gerrard at DM or CM, who should be the starting XI?

Even I viewed Gerrard had a sub-par game against Stoke (number of miss-passes), there is no other better candidate to fill up the boot.
Gerrard can still quite good is spraying diagonal passes around, that lead to assist on goal.

You can't expect an energetic run, box to box from a 33 years old midfielder, scoring screamer 20~30 yards goal like last time out, carry the team single handed.
*
honestly unlike most fans.. I am not a fan of gerrard.. due to his inconsistency and don't think he is vocal enuff as a captain..

however.. his below par performance is still better than lucas n allen..and he has admitted that he need abit of time to adapt to the defensive role..


dotaallstarz
post Jan 14 2014, 12:12 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
261 posts

Joined: May 2007
can lfc.. charge the fa back over the comment for sterling con for penalty..

wtf.. ref makes wrong decision others cannot comment.. then they say got conned.. they r some joke
led_zep_freak
post Jan 14 2014, 12:12 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
5,231 posts

Joined: Jan 2005
From: Pea Jay


QUOTE(cherroy @ Jan 14 2014, 11:18 AM)
The criticism on Gerrard is not justified.

The squad is thin, if not playing Gerrard at DM or CM, who should be the starting XI?

Even I viewed Gerrard had a sub-par game against Stoke (number of miss-passes), there is no other better candidate to fill up the boot.
Gerrard can still quite good is spraying diagonal passes around, that lead to assist on goal.

You can't expect an energetic run, box to box from a 33 years old midfielder, scoring screamer 20~30 yards goal like last time out, carry the team single handed.
*
No, we are not expecting him to be 10 years younger, but we do expect him to not give possession away unnecessary and draw pressure back to us, which he did many times on Saturday. You yourself mentioned in your previous post that the DM is part of the fault for the goals. Gerrard WAS the deepest midfielder.

Contrary to what you have said, we do have options. We could have started Henderson and Lucas in the middle, why not? I rather take safe passes than what Gerrard offered on Saturday.

All I was saying is Gerrard had an off game. The difference between Gerrard having an off game today than 10 years ago is that, with the lack of pace and legs, he will be a bigger burden to the team. I'm sure when he returns to his usual sharpness, he would spray those long, early passes. But that doesn't mean he was above criticism on Saturday.
markblurberry
post Jan 14 2014, 12:13 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
110 posts

Joined: Sep 2010


If I review SG as a player, I can hardly find any fault both technically and physically. He is at the right height, strong physical strength, great ability with his feet...not to mention 2 footed packed with power. A player that excel in open play as well as set pieces, ohh and nearly miss out - a decent header of the ball too....

I must admit that since SG return in the match vs Stoke, our midfield is less fluent, with some dynamic movement curtailed to a certain degree...but as I said earlier, there will be a lot of fine tuning and education from BR's part to make it work...the switch from attack to defend and vice versa is not as easy as a flip of the switch...I am sure SG can play the role of the DM or even Sweeper if needed, he is after all a marvelous tackler of the ball....I am just glad that BR sent out the message that SG will play a deep lying midfield..it is also a message to prospective players that the position is vacant and that we need strengthening. You'll never know whether the name SG will scare away good prospects, and how SG will affect them, just look at Hendo and Aquaman...




leftist
post Jan 14 2014, 12:57 PM

Enthusiast
*****
Senior Member
734 posts

Joined: Jan 2007
From: Sri Petaling


user posted image
hfi
post Jan 14 2014, 01:02 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
598 posts

Joined: Aug 2006
QUOTE(markblurberry @ Jan 14 2014, 12:13 PM)
If I review SG as a player, I can hardly find any fault both technically and physically. He is at the right height, strong physical strength, great ability with his feet...not to mention 2 footed packed with power. A player that excel in open play as well as set pieces, ohh and nearly miss out - a decent header of the ball too....

I must admit that since SG return in the match vs Stoke, our midfield is less fluent, with some dynamic movement curtailed to a certain degree...but as I said earlier, there will be a lot of fine tuning and education from BR's part to make it work...the switch from attack to defend and vice versa is not as easy as a flip of the switch...I am sure SG can play the role of the DM or even Sweeper if needed, he is after all a marvelous tackler of the ball....I am just glad that BR sent out the message that SG will play a deep lying midfield..it is also a message to prospective players that the position is vacant and that we need strengthening. You'll never know whether the name SG will scare away good prospects, and how SG will affect them, just look at Hendo and Aquaman...
*
Good points. But I do wonder if that midfield configuration was just a one off thing to cope with Stoke's physical/aerial threat or something we're looking to make permanent. It worked against Stoke because Gerrard being over 6 feet tall could slot in between the 2 CBs and become a 3rd CB. He's got the height and aggression to win most aerial duels. But it's worth pointing out that his mirror opponent was Charlie Adam who did us some favor by drifting out wide (tho credit to Charlie, he did torment Cissokho). And even then, Charlie Adam was able to capitalize from Hendo/Gerrard mistake. In any case, the top half of the table don't play like Stoke and will have the right personnel to counter Gerrard so I'm incline to believe that we may see further tinkering from BR.
Duke Red
post Jan 14 2014, 01:43 PM

Look at all my stars!!
Group Icon
Elite
6,112 posts

Joined: Sep 2006
From: Earth


Been wanting to see Gerrard play a deeper role from the start of the season despite numerous suggestions from fans and pundits that he should take up a spot behind the forwards. Why don't I think this will work?

Simple. We play a high pressing game as does a number of Premiership sides. Thus, we need players serving on our front line to be quick and mobile, not giving defenders time to dally on the ball. Just as how the big man - small man combination has been phased out, supporting strikers that do not have pace are a dying breed - think Bergkamp, Sheringham or Litmanen. Thus it makes sense that Stevie drop further back in the same fashion Ruud Gullit did. He should reinvent himself to be a Xabi Alonso, interchanging with Lucas and allow Hendo to take up his former role. This is if we do field Gerrard.
cherroy
post Jan 14 2014, 01:50 PM

20k VIP Club
Group Icon
Staff
25,802 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penang


QUOTE(led_zep_freak @ Jan 14 2014, 12:12 PM)
No, we are not expecting him to be 10 years younger, but we do expect him to not give possession away unnecessary and draw pressure back to us, which he did many times on Saturday. You yourself mentioned in your previous post that the DM is part of the fault for the goals. Gerrard WAS the deepest midfielder.

Contrary to what you have said, we do have options. We could have started Henderson and Lucas in the middle, why not? I rather take safe passes than what Gerrard offered on Saturday.

All I was saying is Gerrard had an off game. The difference between Gerrard having an off game today than 10 years ago is that, with the lack of pace and legs, he will be a bigger burden to the team. I'm sure when he returns to his usual sharpness, he would spray those long, early passes. But that doesn't mean he was above criticism on Saturday.
*
You have the point, I also had the same view about Gerrard sub-par performance.
I don't say Gerrard had a good game. smile.gif

Lack of fast closing down, mobility and miss-passes were valid criticism.

Just prior before the match, if you are the manager, you need to draft starting XI, if put Henderson and Lucas in the middle, means Gerrard on the bench, who to slot in?
Sturridge (just return from injury, don't think so), it just means drop Gerrard and put Aspas or Alberto?

The point I highlighted is that prior before the match start, we do not know Gerrard will deliver a sub-par performance or not.
Just like below review mentioned. smile.gif


QUOTE(markblurberry @ Jan 14 2014, 12:13 PM)
If I review SG as a player, I can hardly find any fault both technically and physically. He is at the right height, strong physical strength, great ability with his feet...not to mention 2 footed packed with power. A player that excel in open play as well as set pieces, ohh and nearly miss out - a decent header of the ball too....


*
Duke Red
post Jan 14 2014, 02:12 PM

Look at all my stars!!
Group Icon
Elite
6,112 posts

Joined: Sep 2006
From: Earth


QUOTE(dotaallstarz @ Jan 14 2014, 12:08 PM)
honestly unlike most fans.. I am not a fan of gerrard.. due to his inconsistency and don't think he is vocal enuff as a captain..

however.. his below par performance is still better than lucas n allen..and he has admitted that he need abit of time to adapt to the defensive role..
*
I'm assuming you are referring to the current Gerrard and not the one man task force of old? I've watched Stevie G grow as a player and mature into a captain from when he was a 17 year old looking to break through into the first team. He has been consistent over the years and has single handedly brought the club back from the brink of defeat. Currently however, he is a pale shadow of his former self which is to be expected. Still, he has a massive influence over the other players at the club. Suarez himself said that Stevie played a big part in him staying and younger lads always talk about what an honour it is to train beside him. He still has a role to play at the club albeit more so off the pitch.

He isn't a vocal lad, this I agree but he's not that sort of captain. He leads by example. If he were a civil war officer, he'd be leading the Calvary from the front. Look back to Istanbul and see how he rallied the players and crowd after he scored our first goal. Jamie Carragher was the perfect foil for him. The soul to LFC's heart. The lad who never stopped barking instructions. The Roberto Ayala of English football. Without Carra, Anfield is a quieter place.

Fernando Torres was club captain as a teenager but he's usually as quiet as a mouse in the pitch. However, he was Atletico's best player. Some lead by example and the rest follow. Some bark instructions for others to follow like Bryan Robson.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Jan 14 2014, 02:16 PM
hfi
post Jan 14 2014, 03:10 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
598 posts

Joined: Aug 2006
QUOTE(Duke Red @ Jan 14 2014, 01:43 PM)
Been wanting to see Gerrard play a deeper role from the start of the season despite numerous suggestions from fans and pundits that he should take up a spot behind the forwards.  Why don't I think this will work?

Simple. We play a high pressing game as does a number of Premiership sides. Thus, we need players serving on our front line to be quick and mobile, not giving defenders time to dally on the ball. Just as how the big man - small man combination has been phased out, supporting strikers that do not have pace are a dying breed - think Bergkamp, Sheringham or Litmanen. Thus it makes sense that Stevie drop further back in the same fashion Ruud Gullit did. He should reinvent himself to be a Xabi Alonso, interchanging with Lucas and allow Hendo to take up his former role. This is if we do field Gerrard.
*
I think it depends on the system Duke. Back at the start of the season, we tend to use the 4231 with Sturridge as the lone striker and then the 352 when Suarez returned from suspension. With 4231, Gerrard didn't play behind the forward because Coutinho is simply better than him at that role. Maybe not shooting wise but Coutinho has superior ball control and short passing skill that makes him the ideal player to operate in tight spaces. Similarly, the 352 also relied on 2-1 configuration with Gerrard and Lucas deployed behind Coutinho. It's also worth mentioning that Hendo was deployed on the right side for a number of games - even as a wingback when we used 352.

But we have since revert to the more fluid 433 and the midfield configuration changes from 2-1 to 1-2. Instead of 2 deep midfielders supporting the AM, we now use 1 deep midfielder with 2 box to box midfielders. Lucas taking up the pivot DM role with Allen and Hendo as the 2 supporting central midfielders. This pushes Coutinho out wide but it also opens up space in the middle for the 2 CMs to operate. Resulting us gaining more possession and control over the other teams. It's been working well mainly because of Allen and Hendo are 2 mobile and energetic midfielders who could press all day long.

I think it's clear that BR still prefer the 1-2 combo as he deployed Lucas alongside Hendo against Stoke. Gerrard was okay-ish as DM but I have a feeling he only played there because BR felt he was more than capable to handle Charlie Adam. It will be interesting to see if Gerrard still plays deep against stronger sides.
solstice818
post Jan 14 2014, 03:20 PM

You'll Never Walk Alone
*******
Senior Member
4,503 posts

Joined: Jun 2008
From: The Far Away Venus Status: Being Insua-fied


QUOTE(leftist @ Jan 14 2014, 12:57 PM)
user posted image
*
Forget Shearer and Co... These stats show how Suarez is Goal King Luis

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/...l#ixzz2qM4lccdz
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

berzerk
post Jan 14 2014, 03:24 PM

Enthusiast
*****
Senior Member
706 posts

Joined: Dec 2007
gerrard cannot operate as the lone DM. He's too slow nowadays for the defensive part of DM. He'd be ok as the playmaker in a 2DM 1 AM setup (Lucas + Gerrard at the moment), but then you lose the high pressing of 2 advanced midfield.
hfi
post Jan 14 2014, 03:29 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
598 posts

Joined: Aug 2006
QUOTE(cherroy @ Jan 14 2014, 01:50 PM)
You have the point, I also had the same view about Gerrard sub-par performance.
I don't say Gerrard had a good game.  smile.gif

Lack of fast closing down, mobility and miss-passes were valid criticism.

Just prior before the match, if you are the manager, you need to draft starting XI, if put Henderson and Lucas in the middle, means Gerrard on the bench, who to slot in?
Sturridge (just return from injury, don't think so), it just means drop Gerrard and put Aspas or Alberto?

The point I highlighted is that prior before the match start, we do not know Gerrard will deliver a sub-par performance or not.
Just like below review mentioned.  smile.gif
*
But you just said the criticism for Gerrard is not justified yet you outlined some criticisms? I personally thought he should have started the game as there was no other alternatives and i think he did well for most part of the game. But he was also sloppy at times and were involved in at least 2 of the goals we conceded.
keong24
post Jan 14 2014, 04:01 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
110 posts

Joined: Nov 2007
QUOTE(Duke Red @ Jan 14 2014, 02:12 PM)
I'm assuming you are referring to the current Gerrard and not the one man task force of old? I've watched Stevie G grow as a player and mature into a captain from when he was a 17 year old looking to break through into the first team. He has been consistent over the years and has single handedly brought the club back from the brink of defeat. Currently however, he is a pale shadow of his former self which is to be expected. Still, he has a massive influence over the other players at the club. Suarez himself said that Stevie played a big part in him staying and younger lads always talk about what an honour it is to train beside him. He still has a role to play at the club albeit more so off the pitch.

He isn't a vocal lad, this I agree but he's not that sort of captain. He leads by example. If he were a civil war officer, he'd be leading the Calvary from the front. Look back to Istanbul and see how he rallied the players and crowd after he scored our first goal. Jamie Carragher was the perfect foil for him. The soul to LFC's heart. The lad who never stopped barking instructions. The Roberto Ayala of English football. Without Carra, Anfield is a quieter place.

Fernando Torres was club captain as a teenager but he's usually as quiet as a mouse in the pitch. However, he was Atletico's best player. Some lead by example and the rest follow. Some bark instructions for others to follow like Bryan Robson.
*
i strongly believe if there is no gerrard for the past decade, liverpool is just a mediocre team team like newcastle or everton until now.

he single handedly brought liverpool back into glory. the 2005 champs league is the turning point for this team after the darkness era of 90's.

his passion n love for the club change the fate of this team, without him, there will be no:

- 2005 champs league
- 2006 FA cup
- gerrard + torres combo, 2nd place in 08-09 BPL
- suarez might already leave last summer

imho, the current liverpool that v are loving would not ever exist, if this man is never shown up for the last decade!

the fate of this club will be totally different without him.

and of coz he single handedly make me fall in love with this team, after this goal




cherroy
post Jan 14 2014, 04:02 PM

20k VIP Club
Group Icon
Staff
25,802 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penang


QUOTE(hfi @ Jan 14 2014, 03:29 PM)
But you just said the criticism for Gerrard is not justified yet you outlined some criticisms? I personally thought he should have started the game as there was no other alternatives and i think he did well for most part of the game. But he was also sloppy at times and were involved in at least 2 of the goals we conceded.
*
I posted when I read below 2 comments. smile.gif
Especially dropping Gerrard from starting XI in Stoke match. (who know Gerrard can be sloppy and not provide diagonal passes or through passes that lead to goal assist in the match before the match started?),

There is not many option if the manager want to draft the start XI, to be fair.

If not starting Gerrard and Johnson, I cannot brain other option with current set up and personality that Liv current available.

Somemore, Gerrard did score a penalty with a cool head instead blast it (just like Palace penalty vs Spurs match, I watched the match). It seems easy in TV, but many did blast it to the roof of stadium or wide easily.

Gerrard was poor in the match, end of story. Never did I say Gerrard had a good match.

Only if Gerrard consistently poor across, only then the criticism of dropping Gerrard is justified.
Gerrard is still the leading goal assist player in the team so far, and a player that still showing ability to provide dangerous cross in for attacker to score. (flash in my mind was Sturridge goals against Everton in 3-3)

QUOTE(hotboyccds @ Jan 13 2014, 10:56 PM)
why johnson stil able to be in the starting line-up was beyond me. i think the half fit kelly should be better than him.

so whats up with the transfer news now?
*
QUOTE(shamsul_LP @ Jan 13 2014, 11:27 PM)
It still a misery for me. Also, gerrard. No matter how poor he is, he will be automatic starter..no one has ball to drop him and some even afraid to criticize him..imagine if allen play poor like gerrard yesterday.. brows.gif
*
hfi
post Jan 14 2014, 04:17 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
598 posts

Joined: Aug 2006
Ahh so you were talking about dropping Gerrard from starting 11. Fair enough then. I thought you meant criticizing Gerrard in general.
AnythingK
post Jan 14 2014, 04:38 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
223 posts

Joined: Jul 2008
To be fair, I believe every Liverpool fans respect Gerrard presence and contribution, and yea Liverpool will not be like today if there is no Gerrard. But don't you think we should be fair to the other players? Apart from the penalty that day, Gerrard was kinda poor, lots of miss pass and lost of possession, I am suggesting that not to drop Gerrard from starting 11 instantly, but sub him off when his performance is below par.

Didn't you guys notice that before he injured, he started every game, and played full 90mins even though every game he display different performance? I am well supporting and agree on rotating them, but not simply bench him. Whoever display below par performance, sub him out, just like how Carragher was benched previously and he didn't complain because its for the greater good for the team.

118 Pages « < 6 7 8 9 10 > » Top
Topic ClosedOptions
 

Change to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.0208sec    0.63    6 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 25th December 2025 - 01:09 AM