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 Your Home Theater Setup.. v2, Let's share..

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SSJBen
post Apr 6 2017, 03:42 PM

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QUOTE(jdgobio @ Apr 6 2017, 10:38 AM)
How was the 5010 compared to your v681? It didn't sound good?

The changing cable thing sounds like snake oil to me coz if new power cables can make a difference they are implying that the original cables are defective/crap?
I don't really understand the logic of this power socket and power cable thingy. Is it just a placebo affect or there is some truth to it?
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Because it is snake oil.

A power cable needs to meet one main specification - be of sufficient gauge so that it does not resist or alter the current from point A to point B. That's it.

Why do people say they hear a difference when changing out their stock cable? Plenty of reasons and if I list it all out, people will get offended (for whatever reasons).
But you can buy a RM3 power chord from an electrical store, cut it open and you'll see that often times, the amount of copper in whichever lines (ground, neutral, live) are a joke. Many fuses are also refurbished in these cheap power chords that has corrosion on them already.


QUOTE(skeelee @ Apr 6 2017, 03:36 PM)
Why view the absence of detachable power cable negatively? It means one less contact point that will give rise to sound degradation.

If need to change to another power cable, just solder the new cable directly to the equipment. Much better off this way.
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Many people don't even know the proper way of holding a solder gun and know the difference between the types of solder materials, much less to say opening their amps to do a basic cable swap.

So...

This post has been edited by SSJBen: Apr 6 2017, 03:50 PM
SSJBen
post Apr 6 2017, 10:50 PM

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QUOTE(sivanathan04 @ Apr 6 2017, 09:14 PM)
If compare with Yamaha rxv681 Marantz sr5010 definitely have clean sound but movie dialog to soft the background sound kinda too soft while Yamaha perform well on dialog actually although it sound abit noisy if compare to Marantz..other sr5010 user also feel the same problem like bro chachin...i didn't try different power cable on sr5010 while demo that day although the seller suggest upgrade the power cable if need better sound..i think Marantz sr5011 should not have this kind problem but try to demo first bro...
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@bolded
Well I'm sorry bro if this sounds offensive, but that seller is full of shit then.

While I don't discard the fact that amps can sound different (because they measure differently, therefore they CAN sound different), but comparing your v681 which is situated in your home vs a 5010 in a shop is like comparing Indian curry to Mexican salsa. 2 different things yo!

What you hear in the seller's demo room is not what you will hear in your room. You mentioned dialogue being "soft", but can you be certain that the seller has actually corrected/calibrated the center channel levels? I mean, are the speakers even placed correctly in the first place?

It just sounds to me that the seller is purposely making the SR5010 sound bad and then say "get a better power cable, will improve sound". Wtf kind of advice is that?
That's like saying; if I need to cook nicer rice, I need to get a better rice cooker! Does that even sound logical?

This post has been edited by SSJBen: Apr 6 2017, 10:51 PM
SSJBen
post Apr 7 2017, 01:51 PM

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QUOTE(jdgobio @ Apr 7 2017, 09:55 AM)
I'm currently using the thin white speaker cables which I had for a long time (came with Yamaha package speakers). Any tips on where to get good speaker cables which are reasonably priced? 16 AWG should be good enough right? Maximum run will be 30 feet for rear surrounds. Not looking for fancy stuff but something that has a decent amount of copper.
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If you can go Desa HT, they sell Monster cable EZstrip 16awg speaker cables. I think it's rm9 per meter iirc.

Other than that, maybe you can join bulk purchase of a 12awg Belden cable reel.
SSJBen
post Apr 7 2017, 09:01 PM

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QUOTE(jamesleetech @ Apr 7 2017, 05:07 PM)
I don't know if this post is suitable for this Home Theater Setup thread. Just sharing here because I see some relevance to Home Theater. Anyway, my apologies if out-of-topic in this thread.

Alan Parson was from the British progressive rock band "Alan Parson's Project" (1975 to 1990) who also engineered Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon.

Here's what Alan Parson spoke about audiophiles....

"Audiophiles don't use their equipment to listen to your music. Audiophiles use your music to listen to their equipment."


Reference links...

http://boingboing.net/2012/02/10/alan-pars...udiophiles.html

https://www.facebook.com/Audient/posts/442271379158901

brows.gif shocking.gif
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This, +100000000:

QUOTE
the people that have sufficient equipment don’t pay enough attention to room acoustics.



How many times have you seen people with $10,000 speakers, $15000 amps, $5000 speaker cables/power chords but have next to no room treatment? Plenty, I tell you. doh.gif

Yes I'm exaggerating the money point, but seriously... instead of all that thousands of dollars spent on pointless power cables, use 1% of that and go get some diffusers/foams/treatments instead. Instant difference instead of trying to psycho yourself to hear a difference.
SSJBen
post Apr 8 2017, 11:03 PM

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QUOTE(jdgobio @ Apr 8 2017, 09:49 PM)
Thanks for the info bro. Those atmos speakers are Elac reflective ones? Shouldn't they be on top of the main speakers? How is your atmos experience? Is there a big difference over 5.1/7.1?
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It's all about angles.

You can use "up-firing" speakers as if they were height presence speakers to create Atmos/DTS:X effects. In-ceiling speakers are still the best way for height effects, as long as they are mounted properly.
SSJBen
post Apr 9 2017, 02:01 AM

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QUOTE(jdgobio @ Apr 8 2017, 11:27 PM)
You mean it will be angled to still be bounced back via the ceiling?
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No, what matters is where the speaker is placed and then angled towards the listener.

James has his height speakers in the front height presence location. You can use any speakers as height presence.
SSJBen
post Apr 9 2017, 01:47 PM

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QUOTE(Dickong @ Apr 9 2017, 07:09 AM)
I have 7.1.2 speaker set but mixer of 8ohm n 6ohm spk so at avr output what should i select, at 8ohm or 6ohm.tq
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DON'T TOUCH THE OHM SELECTOR SWITCH. Stay away from it, pretend that it doesn't even exist!

Why? Because by setting your AVR to 6ohms, you would have effectively cut down on its power/current supply simply so it can dip to 6ohms and not overheat. You are basically crippling your AVR.


QUOTE(stilo10 @ Apr 9 2017, 10:59 AM)
Can I actually use an avr to drive the additional 2 channels instead of using an external amp like pre-amp or power amp bcos like A3060 or SR7011 supports 11.2 ch but will need an external amp to drive it. I was told it is okay do so but not advisable...
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If it's only 2 channels, then basically almost any receiver can be used as an extended amp. Just use the auxiliary RCA input if it doesn't have a dedicated multi channel in.

Make sure to level match and set the receiver to direct mode.

SSJBen
post Apr 12 2017, 07:23 PM

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Great info James.
And that's why... I continue to use a HTPC. Double click on file > watch movie.

Cinavia can kiss my ass.

This post has been edited by SSJBen: Apr 12 2017, 07:23 PM
SSJBen
post Apr 13 2017, 12:50 AM

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QUOTE(jamesleetech @ Apr 12 2017, 10:45 PM)
Which player software do you use in your HTPC? VLC, MPC-HC, PowerDVD, WinDVD, the outdated dead "ArcSoft TotalMedia Theatre 6 Platinum", DVDFab Media Player, etc etc? Which media type do you use to play? Files such as M2TS, MKV, MP4, AVI, etc? Or you play full bluray by selecting Playlist MPLS file? AFAIK, there are 2 ways to bitstream DTSMA, DTSX, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Atmos, etc ... playing MKV containers with such audio or directly playing the bluray M2TS file. If the movie is broken into multiple files and mixed up in sequence numbers, then playing from the correct Playlist file is imperative.

The reason I asked is my curiosity got the better of me, hehehe.

I do use (rarely now) DVDFab Media Player 3 (genuine licensed purchase) to play bluray from computer so this player don't have Cinavia detection. Malaysia is bluray Region A so... if I want to play Region B or C discs, I need to use RedFox (previously Slysoft AnyDVD HYD) to prevent my pc bluray writer from locking at one particular region. I haven't tested but I think DVDFab player cannot bitstream Atmos/DTSX audio from MKV files. Anyway its irrelevant now as I don't use HTPC anymore. Already stopped doing some video editing work with HD and SD raw materials. Dah pencen loh. Hehe... where did I keep my ancient Pinnacle Studio PCI Video Encoder Card in my storeroom ?

I was mmm... lazy to test, so were your HT Amp able to identify Atmos/DTSX audio bitstreamed from HTPC for M2TS (or MKV) files ? Maybe some day I should test with my Intel NUC mini PC which I used primarily for DSD/FLAC audio playback to my external DAC.

I also have Netflix subscription and do video streaming from my PC and from my Samsung Smart TV with Netflix App but the quality is well below par with blurays.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

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I'm using MPC-HC Black, with madvr + LAV filters. I focus on absolute quality, of which requires a pretty beefy GPU especially when upscaling 720p > 4k using madvr.

Most of my bluray discs, I remux them myself into .mkv container. I leave the lossless audio intact, deleting all the lossy ones and of course I do not touch the video portion at all. Also, since I remux - it is simple to just combine all separated .m2ts files into one file, so no playlist required. So far there's only one movie that has a minor issue being remuxed and that's Mad Max Fury Road, the black/white (chrome) edition.

As for 4k blu-ray discs, I still don't have a 4k blu-ray player yet as I'm waiting for the Oppo 203d - one with darbee. Right now, there exists ONE blu-ray 4k player for PC - but since HDCP 2.2 hasn't been cracked yet, it's difficult to rip and remux them. However, the scene releases are getting sort of close to breaking HDCP 2.2. Also, since madvr's next major release will support the proper passthrough of HDR10/HLG content, no issues on that front for me. Dolby Vision is another matter though but that's a problem to worry about like.. 2 years from now or something.

I'm not condoning piracy, but cinavia is stupid and region locking is idiotic. So ways of stripping off HDCP is a welcome thing in my book, even if it leads to piracy. At the end of the day, what's made by men can and will be broken by men. I don't know why both parties are running around in circles chasing their own tails.

Yeah, my receiver has no issues receiving Atmos/DTS:X bitstreamed from the HTPC with remux mkv files. All I need to do is right-click on the movie > audio > select Dolby TrueHD/Atmos/DTSMA/DTSX.
SSJBen
post Apr 16 2017, 08:17 PM

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QUOTE(jdgobio @ Apr 16 2017, 10:04 AM)
Thanks have seen that before but wasn't convinced that there is a significant difference.  Trying to make marginal improvements now to my system and will try changing to better cables.
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As it has been repeated over a million times regarding cables... all I will say is: "make sure you know how to get out of the rabbit hole before you dig too deep".
SSJBen
post Apr 21 2017, 04:43 PM

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QUOTE(jamesleetech @ Apr 17 2017, 06:39 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
Appreciate the comment James.

And yes +200000 on genuine buyers not being able to make a copy for themselves. It's freaking silly!
SSJBen
post Apr 27 2017, 04:36 PM

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QUOTE(jamesleetech @ Apr 27 2017, 03:33 PM)
My pleasure.

Even the so-called "Digital HD Copy" found in various blurays are ridiculous in my opinion. Download the Digital HD Copy to the PC or a mobile device and its DRM LOCKED there, cannot copy it out to other device to play ! And the quality is obviously below the actual bluray. I think its just an "excuse" for them to increase the bluray price a bit more to "include" such additional "features" which is really pretty useless for me.

I wonder why they still include double discs into a 4K Bluray... where one is the "normal" 1080p Bluray? I don't know about others but for me... if I buy a 4K bluray, I don't need 1080p bluray and forced to pay "extra". When I can already watch 4K bluray, why should I still watch 1080p? If I just want the 1080p bluray, I would not buy the 4K bluray. Yes, there are 1 disc 4K bluray available BUT some are only available as double disc (4K and 1080p) so we end up paying extra. Well... its a business and consumers will always be taken advantage of, as long as there are people who are gullible enough to still buy so its a harsh fact.

3D HD/4K TV is no longer produced so will 3D blurays still continue to be released? When 3D bluray is dead, it means people with "older" 3D TVs will no longer have such blurays to play with.
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The "digital HD copy" from most Blu-ray now a days are basically just web-DL versions. A lot of "scene" rips are actually even higher quality than them (you know the "ahem" 9-15gb h264 rips), 99% of the time.



QUOTE(CoffeeDude @ Apr 27 2017, 04:10 PM)
How to setup MPC-HC Black, with madvr + LAV filters?

Do you have any guide?

Thanks in advance  notworthy.gif
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Err... no way am I going to list a step-by-step guide here, way too long.

Maybe follow this or something: https://imouto.my/tutorials/madvr/
I find it pretty extensive for most people.
SSJBen
post Apr 29 2017, 01:31 PM

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QUOTE(mattalex @ Apr 29 2017, 11:05 AM)
Hi,

What AVR would you recommend (from power standpoint) for an SVS Prime 5.1 set-up - floor standing mains, center, bookshelf rears?

I read in an earlier post that Yamaha RXV 681 is underpowered for some set-ups. So would like to avoid getting into such situation. 

Thanks.
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How loud do you often listen, how big is your room and how far do you sit from your speakers? 3 important questions to determine the power you need.

Truth be told however, most mainstream AVRs will not have much issue to drive the Primes really loud. And I mean loud enough to damage your hearing. You are mistaken that AVRs do not have enough power, they do. Rather they don't have the capability to uphold their power with enough headroom if you listen at reference volume regularly and your room is huge (over 4000 cu.ft). They also don't have the balls to drive 4ohms loads without clipping/overheating.

Also speaker efficiency matters. The Primes are average efficiency but they are rated at a 300hz-3khz band, which compared to many other companies that doesn't.

The v681 should be okay. But there are certainly other choices as well - Denon x1300w, Marantz SR5011, or perhaps go a bit higher if you need more features.

This post has been edited by SSJBen: Apr 29 2017, 01:33 PM
SSJBen
post May 5 2017, 03:04 PM

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QUOTE(teop @ May 3 2017, 04:38 PM)
You are right about the power thing. I have been listening in my living room mostly during late at night=45-50dB ambient so my v679 is usually at -40 - -35dB. But during the day=65-75dB ambient I'll have to jack it up to -20dB. And when you have a room full of people=party, then it is totally under powered at 0dB. By then I don't dare to push higher as it was already burning up and I don't want to blow any speakers. At this point, my system is able to produce 90dB-110dB.
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At least Yamaha receivers won't literally blow its fuse or caps. The ridiculous power limiting and auto-shut off measures are so conservative that it's damn near impossible to kill their transformers in normal usage. Good and bad I guess?


QUOTE(Dickong @ May 4 2017, 09:27 PM)
Using AVR for home theater for front speaker using bi-amp better or external power amp better tq
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Most receivers simply do not have the power to bi-amp properly - especially the Yamaha mainstream receivers (the v series). In fact, for many receivers - bi amping speakers that dips to 4ohms may actually be detrimental to power supply on the receiver.

So, my suggestion is - you can try but if you hear distortion/clipping at moderate to loud levels (not even reference), then you know your receiver simply don't have the headroom for dynamic peaks when being bi-amped.

Obviously, using external power amps are 99% most of the time better - provided that external amp isn't crap to begin with.


QUOTE(mattalex @ May 5 2017, 07:11 AM)
Hi, anyone know where I can get pair of speaker stands between 36" to 48" for satellite/surround speakers? Can be extendable type. For normal type speakers, and not for Bose or other tiny ones from Sony, etc. 

Thanks.
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Check out Octo Audio on FB, they have sturdy OEM wood stands that you can order up to 42" IINM.
SSJBen
post Jun 3 2017, 10:18 PM

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QUOTE(Dickong @ Jun 2 2017, 11:30 AM)
Guys, when setting ht spk to small wonder at what hz u guys set for crossover.tq
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No golden rule.
Most competent speakers should be able to play with authority down to at least 60-80hz, making 80hz a very nice balance point as a crossover for most situations/rooms.

I personally have my LCRs at 60hz, surrounds and heights at 80hz.

But at the same time, I've heard and seen a few people who employs a minimum of 6 subs in the room but has LCR speakers that can play down to 40hz easily yet cross them at 100hz. Because of how even the bass is in the room due to the multi subs config, even at 120hz it is very difficult to localize where the subs are yet at the same time the LCR speakers sound extremely cohesive with the entire system.
SSJBen
post Jun 4 2017, 07:11 PM

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QUOTE(Dickong @ Jun 4 2017, 02:32 PM)
I also set my lcr at 60hz n the rest 80hz but i realise when lcr set to 80hz the mid is more detail. Any commend on this. Actually my ypao detect all  my spk as big n 40hz but i set all to small n the hz as above mention
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Various factors.

1) Speaker placement, how close are they to any boundaries? From your post, sounds like YPAO is setting your fronts to 40hz because they are getting a lot of gain between 40-80hz, thus it detects them as full range speakers which is wrong.

2) Maybe your speakers -3db roll off is at 100hz, thus the close it is to the -3db cut the better it performs. What speakers are you using again?

3) Crossovers are room and system dependant. Your same system may have an entirely different crossover setting in my room for example.


QUOTE(ktek @ Jun 4 2017, 04:38 PM)
i think one of the cause is too much spk or room mode /size at those frequency are exessive. so 100hz is choosen then able to control from each sub level and filter
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Not exactly.

The more subs you have, the more headroom you have.
In fact, the more subs you have, the easier it is to tame the room modes and to reduce excessiveness of volume at any frequency.

Using a high crossover is simply for the simple fact that multiple 15" drivers (as an example) is always going to beat the usual 6.5 to 8" drivers on most L/R loudspeakers in efficiency and output.

This post has been edited by SSJBen: Jun 4 2017, 07:16 PM
SSJBen
post Jun 5 2017, 03:24 PM

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QUOTE(Dickong @ Jun 5 2017, 02:27 PM)
i am using front B&W 683 S2, Center B&W htm61 S2 surround monitor audio sub SVS PB2000 n atmos in ceiling spk. My front spk is around 8ft apart n 2.5 feet away from wall surround 12ft apart n sub is about 15 feet from listening position.Any commend about the placing.tq
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According to this measurement from stereophile;
user posted image

Your 683s -3db point is around 50hz. It rolls off to -6db at 33hz.


A picture of your room would be best to illustrate your placement though. 2.5ft from a wall boundary doesn't actually mean much, because 2.5ft may not actually be the minimum 1/4 wave length of your entire room.

An example;
If a room's length is 18 feet, then the wave cycles is approx 60. So if we take 18ft and divide it by 4 as per the 1/4 rule, the result is 4.5 ft. So you need to calculate your room's wavelength first before you actually place your speakers.

If you are very anal retentive about the placement, then next you will have to calculate the cancellation notch for your speakers. The formula is dmin (feet) = 1.4(1125) / 4f-3dB.
The f3 point is the -3db point of your speakers, which is around 50hz there are or so.

Generally people always recommend to have about 2-3 ft of space from the front wall and around 3 - 4ft off the side walls. This is just a very vague, general recommendation. Often times, it can be wrong because people generally forget that we don't all have the same room dimensions.
SSJBen
post Jul 27 2017, 05:11 PM

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QUOTE(msian @ Jul 27 2017, 11:34 AM)
Hi, can anyone recommend a modest 3-3.5k set up? 5.1 ch
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New? Impossible. The ringgit is too shitty to have that kind of privilege.

Second or third hand, possible. But you're going to have to hunt quite hard for it.

Get a receiver for around 1k, get 5 speakers for 1.5k, get a fart box for 1k.
Difficult to recommend any and don't expect a great audio experience.

My suggestion, forget 5.1. Put all your money into 2.0 and be happy until you have funds to add more speakers:
- RM1.4k for a Yamaha v383
- RM2k for Klipsch RP150 or Q Acoustics Concept 20 or Elac Debut B6. If you have the space and want towers, Sony SS-CS3 towers aren't too bad for the price (around RM1.5k).
SSJBen
post Jul 31 2017, 06:32 PM

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QUOTE(kinggerrard @ Jul 31 2017, 05:39 PM)
Hi bro, I'm a beginner in this stuff and thinking to get a 5.1 also..

Can you please advise me on the combination to achieve a decent and good audio quality. Appreciate if you could also estimate the cost for these stuffs.

Thanks sifu..  notworthy.gif
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The very bare minimum where I would consider a not-pointless setup for HT purposes (does not apply to HiFi music):

Sony SS-CS5 Bookshelfs L/R = RM700
Sony SS-CS8 Center = RM500
Sony SS-CS5 Bookshelfs surround = RM700
Klipsch R10sw sub = RM1.8k
Yamaha RXV-383 AVR = RM1.4k

or

SVS Prime Satellite 5.1 package = RM5.3k (SRP, actual price is quite a bit lower - ask htkaki/maxx audio to check)

You could go cheaper and pick up some second or third hand speakers for even cheaper, but that depends on luck and your willingness to hunt for them. That goes the same for the receiver, you can look at hifi4sale to see if anyone is selling off their 1 or 2 year old receivers, could find something worthwhile there. I think this serves a baseline (in Msia at least) for a new set of speakers on a 5.1 setup that doesn't sound like shit.

Beyond this budget (say if you have around 8-10k), then your horizons open up to SVS subs, Q Acoustics Speakers, KEF Q speakers, Jamo C90 series speakers, SVS Prime series speakers, Rega speakers, or Klipsch RP series speakers for example.

Not going to list out every range of setups, better for you to list your budget first instead.

This post has been edited by SSJBen: Jul 31 2017, 07:04 PM
SSJBen
post Aug 1 2017, 05:27 PM

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QUOTE(kinggerrard @ Aug 1 2017, 09:15 AM)
Thanks for your tips. Wow! Looks like playing HT audio really need to have deep pocket. Actually my budget is around RM5-6k only. Maybe I'll have to save some money to go for SVS subs as I saw many good reviews.

Say around RM8-10k, what would you recommend for the setup 5.1? I think won't go for used HT because as a noob in HT, I don't know how to assess them whether still in good condition or not.

Appreciate if you could also recommend me where should I go to buy those stuffs. Is it Desa Home Theatre still the best place to visit? Thanks bro
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Go thank the you-know-who finance minister. whistling.gif

For 8-10k, I can only give you some recommendations - the most important thing is that you will have to go listen to them to get an idea of how they sound. Do keep in mind that room acoustics plays a major role, so what you hear in a demo room may not be what you hear in your own space.

Example setup:

Klipsch RP150 = RM1.9k
Klipsch RP450c = RM2.5k
Mission VX-S Sattellites = RM900
SVS PB1000 = RM3.6k
Yamaha RXV383 AVR = RM1.4k

Alternatively;

SVS Prime Satellite 5.1 package = RM5k
Marantz SR5011, Denon x2300w or Yamaha v683 AVR = RM2.5k

You could then sell the SB1000 sub if it's not enough output for you for a bigger SVS sub like the PB1000 or better yet a PB2000 or PC2000. Alternatively, you could also add another SB1000 to make it a multi-sub setup, which in most cases is significantly better over a single sub setup simply due to better room response (gives you more even/linear bass over multiple seats instead of just one sweetspot), a bigger headroom and some SPL gain (not much though).
Of course, choosing a sub depends entirely on the room dimensions and location you are putting it in.

The prices here are SRP, so ask around and you may get lower prices (especially the subs).
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